Character Help

[Fhalyassa]

I need help with setting up my half-fiend character. I was think my character is a half succubus and half unseelie fey with Summer Caress. Would it be better to make her an Alu-Demon? Is the Alu-Demon's polymorph spell-like ability weak not all that great? How would an Alu-Demon look like? Why does the Alu-Demon have the spell-like ability polymorph 3/day when the Alu-Fiend in 2nd had shape change (to a humanoid form of approximately their own height and weight only)

My character's unmodified stats are as follows. Str: 15; Con: 16; Dex: 15 Wis: 14; Int: 19; Cha: 18. I rolled from stats.

I would like make my character become a Succubus. I would like her stats and class abilities to basically stay the same but also gain all the powers and abilities of a succubus. I would also like have a tail that end spike-like stinger that contains poison.

Alu-Demon:
Armor: Natural armor improves by +4 instead of by +1.
Full Attack: An alu-demon gains no claw or bite attack. She does gain a special touch attack usable once per round as a standard action. If she hits, she deals 1d6 points of negative energy damage plus additional damage equal to her Charisma bonus. She gains half of any damage inflicted in this manner back as healing.
Special Attacks: Alu-demons cannot smite good.
Spell-Like Abilities: Replace darkness 3/day with charm person 3/day. Replace desecrate with detect thoughts 3/day. Replace unholy blight with suggestion 3/day. Replace poison with polymorph 3/day (humanoid form only). Replace contagion with dimension door.
Abilities: Str +2, Dex +4, Con +4, Int +2, Cha +6

What can you tell me about the Lemorian Half-Fiend? Where can I find info on that type of half-fiend?

[gorfnab]

How about using the Savage Species Succubus progression and then gestalting something onto it?

Lemorian Half-Fiends are stated out in Dungeon Magazine 143 (Page 58) and Dungeon Magazine 146 (Page 66). They are a variant of the Half-Fiend template.

[JeminiZero]

There was a very similiar thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245599) a while back. You can read through it, as a lot of the advice therein is equally applicable here.

As with the other thread, you need to provide us a few more details before we can really help you:
1) What is the starting level
2) What do you want your character to be mechanically capable of (Melee? Archery? Stealth? Casting spells? What kind of spells?)
3) What source books are allowed (Core? Completes? Races of? Setting specific? Eberron? Faerun? Third Party? Homebrew?)


How would an Alu-Demon look like?

A lot of appearance (especially when you start stacking templates) can be made up to whatever you want (within reason), also known as refluffing.


Why does the Alu-Demon have the spell-like ability polymorph 3/day when the Alu-Fiend in 2nd had shape change (to a humanoid form of approximately their own height and weight only)

Because WOTC (the guys who made D&D) said so. :smalltongue: Thats pretty much it.

[Fhalyassa]

The problem with playing as Succubus from Savage Species is that have to go through the whole Succubus monster class to get all the abilities of a Succubus. I also I would have go through twelve level of the Succubus Monster Class before I could take another class.

Any book is allowed including third party.

She is a 1st level character. I would like her to be able to cast a good amount of arcane spells and I would so like her to be able to use a long sword as a weapon. I have thought that she might know how to use a scourge as well. I would not might if she could use a scourge I originally thought she was an Enchanter. I want her when she is a full succubus to rise in power. Spellwise I would like to be able to defend her well with spells. She would never worship another being but instead she wants to be worshiped. So that means she will never ever have the ability to cast cleric spells unless she can gain something out of worshiping a deity that will help her out with her goals. I have looked at the Duskblade and found I like the Duskblade's ability a touch spell with a melee attack. The problem with the Duskblade that it gains a small selection of arcane spells

I like the succubus's Alternate Form ability, ability to energy drain, and the spell-like abilities of charm monster and teleport without error.

[JeminiZero]

No homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15)? That limits your viable options.

1. Start with a Changeling (Eberron campaign setting). Your character now has Alternate Form.
2. Take the Otherworldly feat (Players Guide to Faerun). Your character is now an LA +0 Outsider. Refluff that she is a lesser Half-Fiend or something.
3. Start with 1 level in Initiator class. I recommend either Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) (int focus) or Crusader (cha focus).
4. Later on take levels in an Arcanist class. Again, I recommend Wizard (int focus) or Sorcerer (cha focus)
5. PrC into Jade Phoenix Mage. Maybe going for something like: 1 Initiator / 4 Arcanist / 1 Initiator / JPM. Don't forget the Practiced Spellcaster feat.
6. You won't have any spell-like abilities. Instead, grab Charm Monster and Teleport as your Arcanist spells, which is *almost* as good.
7. Maybe splash 1 level in Spellsword for the ability to cast spells in armor.
8. You could also splash 1 level in Soul-eater at some point, to get energy drain.

[Fhalyassa]

I want her to look attractive though I do like the Changeling's ability to shape change its form. I would like her to be very charismatic (very high Charisma).

[JeminiZero]

Just refluff her appearance. Ergo, ask the DM that despite using changeling as the base race, her base form looks more like an attractive human / fiendling.

[Fhalyassa]

I decided to make her a succubus. How do I get her Charisma of 24 starting out as high as possible?

[JeminiZero]

I decided to make her a succubus. How do I get her Charisma of 24 starting out as high as possible?

There is virtually* no way for an ECL 1 character to start with charisma that high. Starting with 18 is about as good as it gets. Just take the Cha focused classes (e.g. Crusader and Sorcerer), and put your level up points into Cha, and buy Cha boosting gear. That route should let you hit a Cha of 24 around level 8-10 (18 start, +2 level up, +4 enhancement gear)

*Excepting really broken options like Pun Pun, or non-standard stat generation methods like roll 5d6 no drop for each stat.

[Fhalyassa]

There is virtually* no way for an ECL 1 character to start with charisma that high. Starting with 18 is about as good as it gets. Just take the Cha focused classes (e.g. Crusader and Sorcerer), and put your level up points into Cha, and buy Cha boosting gear. That route should let you hit a Cha of 24 around level 8-10 (18 start, +2 level up, +4 enhancement gear)

*Excepting really broken options like Pun Pun, or non-standard stat generation methods like roll 5d6 no drop for each stat.I got the Charisma of 24 from the +6 Cha from being a Succubus and having a starting Charisma of 18. How hard would it be to use the Wish spell to get my Charisma higher?

[JeminiZero]

I got the Charisma of 24 from the +6 Cha from being a Succubus and having a starting Charisma of 18.

If you are starting with a full succubus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#succubus), that hardly counts as an ECL 1 character. In fact, with 6 HD and 6 LA, you count as an ECL 12 character.


How hard would it be to use the Wish spell to get my Charisma higher?

It is *easy* to use Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm) to raise Charisma by granting inherent bonus to scores. The DIFFICULT part is getting a Wish spell in the first place.

[Fhalyassa]

I forgot to mention that I am using the Succubus from Savage Species. How should the Succubus class from Savage Species be updated to make it 3.5 compatible?

I would like her to have some Arcane Spells from the schools of Illusion and Enchantment. Should I get the Force of Personality feat?

I figured out that her Charisma Score will be 34 at 12th. So how good is a Charisma score of 34?

[JeminiZero]

I forgot to mention that I am using the Succubus from Savage Species. How should the Succubus class from Savage Species be updated to make it 3.5 compatible?

There would need to be some changes... But I think I'll leave that to somebody more experienced in monster classes than me.


I would like her to have some Arcane Spells from the schools of Illusion and Enchantment. Should I get the Force of Personality feat?

In general, anything with LA makes for a terrible spellcaster, unless the LA race/template provides something really REALLY powerful to make up for it. Succubus ISN'T one of those races. To put it another way, you need to take 12 levels in Savage Species Succubus, before you can even take one level in a spellcasting class.

Lets say you use Sorcerer for their Charisma reliance. By the time you take your first level of Sorcerer at ECL 13, an LA 0 race (such as the otherworldy changeling) would have 13 levels of Sorcerer. A succubus would just gain access to level 1 spells, while the changeling would be flinging around level 6 spells. Thats a HUGE difference in power level.

I'm not saying you can't play a full Succubus, but you need to be aware of the limitations. You *can* get arcane spells, but you won't get 1st level spells until ECL 13 at the earliest, and even then your spells will be weak compared to LA 0 straight sorcerer.

But to answer the question: If you are pumping Cha and have nothing better to spend a feat on, then yes, Force of Personality is a good choice.

Also, Succubus gain the Suggestion spell-like-ability, which is a good enough Enchantment for most situations. You can probably afford to focus more on illusions if you take arcane caster levels.


I figured out that her Charisma Score will be 34 at 12th. So how good is a Charisma score of 34?

It translates to a Charisma bonus of +12. How good is a Cha bonus of +12? That depends entirely on how you use it.

[Fhalyassa]

Would you suggest getting the Supernatural Transformation? If you think I should get it then what spell-like ability should I get for? Would Quick Change and Flyby Attack be a good feats to get? What would be some good feats get to as a succubus? I would like to know to use a whip/scourge. How would I get a stinger at the end of my succubus's tail that does is poisonous?

What magical items permanently increase Charisma? Are there any PrCs that increase a person's Charisma?

Since Charisma is measures physical attractiveness. The how attractive is a Charisma score of 24 and 34?

What if mulriclassed after 12th level doing the Succubus Class as warrior of some type or rogue and an arcane caster of some type?

[JeminiZero]

Would you suggest getting the Supernatural Transformation? If you think I should get it then what spell-like ability should I get for?

Probably an offensive spell. Either Charm Monster or Suggestion. Then you can use them without AoO, and they ignore SR.


Would Quick Change and Flyby Attack be a good feats to get?

Quick Change may or may not be useful depending on what form you go around in, and whether you need to change that form quickly. If you go around all the time as a Succubus, not much point in it.

Flyby attack is OK, if you are using hit and run melee tactics. But that is unlikely on a fragile succubus chassis. Your best bet is probably just keep away, and cast Suggestion/Charm from a safe distance.


What would be some good feats get to as a succubus?

Succubus have Telepathy, so Mindsight would probably be a good choice.


I would like to know to use a whip/scourge.

No easy way about this, you just have to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip.


How would I get a stinger at the end of my succubus's tail that does is poisonous?

The easiest way is to buy a Stinging Tail (Fiend Folio 211) and graft that onto your character.


What magical items permanently increase Charisma?

Permanently? The only ones I am aware of is Using Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm), or reading Tome of Leadership (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#tomeofLeadershipandInfluence). Note that both grant inherent bonuses which doesn't stack with each other inherent bonus, and is subject to a maximum bonus of +5.


Are there any PrCs that increase a person's Charisma?

Only one off the top of my head is Dragon Disciple.


Since Charisma is measures physical attractiveness. The how attractive is a Charisma score of 24 and 34?

This is a common misconception. Charisma (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm) measures "force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness". It sums up all these factors together. Higher Charisma does not always equal more pretty.

Take an average human for example. Their Charisma goes up, as they age (representing stronger force of personality). So an average 90 year old granny, has higher charisma than an average 20 year old college student.

Similiarly, compare a Balor with a Succubus. They both have the same Charisma score (26). But the first is essentially a large red bipedal cow on fire.

[Fhalyassa]

Here is why I have a problem with getting the Sting Tail fiendish graft. When a character with a fiendish grafts interacts with a non evil NPCs, a -6 circumstance penalty is applied on all Charisma-based checks. This penalty applies even if the NPC is unaware of the graft presence, since this is a subtle-twisting of the host's personality.

Below is Wizard's definition of Charisma and it comes right from their D&D Glossary.

Charisma

The ability that measures a character's force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_Charisma&alpha=)

[Waker]

Are you allowed access to Dragon Magazine? If so, you might consider playing a Thrall of Malcanthet from Drg 353. It's a PrC that progresses spellcasting, gives you a number of SLAs and other abilities, boosts your Charisma and at the highest level lets you turn into a Succubus. It has the flavor of being a succubus without all of those RHD and LA. I'd suggest playing a Changeling Bard or Sorcerer with maybe a sprinkling of the Changeling Rogue acf for the social boosts.

[Fhalyassa]

Are you allowed access to Dragon Magazine? If so, you might consider playing a Thrall of Malcanthet from Drg 353. It's a PrC that progresses spellcasting, gives you a number of SLAs and other abilities, boosts your Charisma and at the highest level lets you turn into a Succubus. It has the flavor of being a succubus without all of those RHD and LA. I'd suggest playing a Changeling Bard or Sorcerer with maybe a sprinkling of the Changeling Rogue acf for the social boosts.Yes I am allowed access to the Dragon Magazine. The Succubus form from the Thrall of Malcanthet only last for 1 hour perday which I hate. Also my character would not ever serve Malcanthet because she thinks it is the same as serving a Deity which she will never ever do. She wants to be worshiped by people instead of worshiping and serving a Demon, Devil, or Deity.

How would my Charisma of 34 compare to the Charisma score of other succubus?

[Waker]

Yes I am allowed access to the Dragon Magazine. The Succubus form from the Thrall of Malcanthet only last for 1 hour perday which I hate. Also my character would not ever serve Malcanthet because she thinks it is the same as serving a Deity which she will never ever do. She wants to be worshiped by people instead of worshiping and serving a Demon, Devil, or Deity.
While I can understand that the succubus form is limited somewhat, remember that by going this route you actually have HD, skills and spells, on top of the lesser succubus type abilities that the class grants, like detect thoughts and negative level kiss. Going through the Succubus progression means slogging through a lot of RHD and LA. As for worshipping Malcanthet, remember that demons and their worshipperes are prone to hatred and betrayal, who's to say that you would be a loyal servant to her?

[Fhalyassa]

While I can understand that the succubus form is limited somewhat, remember that by going this route you actually have HD, skills and spells, on top of the lesser succubus type abilities that the class grants, like detect thoughts and negative level kiss. Going through the Succubus progression means slogging through a lot of RHD and LA. As for worshipping Malcanthet, remember that demons and their worshipperes are prone to hatred and betrayal, who's to say that you would be a loyal servant to her?What do you mean who's say that you would loyal servant to Malcanthet? Malacanther's domains of Lust, hedonism, seduction do fit my character well. What would happen to my character's stats if I turned myself into a succubus instead being one at the start? I was wanting her to have a very high Charisma score.

I am thinking she might be into hedonism.

Why did the 3.5 succubus loss doom, clairaudience/clairvoyance, darkness, desecrate, and unholy blight.

[Waker]

I was saying that there is a difference between being a loyal, devoted servant to a deity/demon whatever and being more of a conniving opportunist. You might profess a love of Malcanthet, when in reality you want to usurp her and become the Queen of Succubi.
As for your Charisma, it would technically be higher if you take the Thrall route. The class itself adds +4 Charisma on top of the +16 from assuming the form of a Succubus.
Once again, just suggesting this alternative because playing a straight Succubus will result in a very weak character. By ECL 12, you'll have 6HD, horrible saves, weak attacks and negligible magic.
I have no idea why the changed the Succubus spell list.

[Fhalyassa]

I was saying that there is a difference between being a loyal, devoted servant to a deity/demon whatever and being more of a conniving opportunist. You might profess a love of Malcanthet, when in reality you want to usurp her and become the Queen of Succubi.
As for your Charisma, it would technically be higher if you take the Thrall route. The class itself adds +4 Charisma on top of the +16 from assuming the form of a Succubus.
Once again, just suggesting this alternative because playing a straight Succubus will result in a very weak character. By ECL 12, you'll have 6HD, horrible saves, weak attacks and negligible magic.
I have no idea why the changed the Succubus spell list.You got it right about her when you said you want to usurp Malcanthet and become the Queen of Succubi. That is one of her long life goals! I am only going to put point(s) into her Charisma when she can the put point(s) into a stat unless she should put the point(s) into another stat.

I want Mindsight.

I found the following on Enworld on how to make the Savage Species Succubus in line with 3.5 Succubus. http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/80102-savage-species-succubus-3-5-a.html

[Waker]

Losing two of the LA helps make the progression a bit easier, but it still falls somewhat short. If it was reduced to 6RHD+3LA you could at least buyoff the LA eventually.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm

[Fhalyassa]

Losing two of the LA helps make the progression a bit easier, but it still falls somewhat short. If it was reduced to 6RHD+3LA you could at least buyoff the LA eventually.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htmSo how I do the Reducing Level Adjustments with my Succubus character?

[Waker]

At most you can only reduce the LA by one level. The table says when you can remove the LA, with +4LA you can reduce it at lvl 12. If you have three or less LA, you are able to completely remove it.

[Fhalyassa]

At most you can only reduce the LA by one level. The table says when you can remove the LA, with +4LA you can reduce it at lvl 12. If you have three or less LA, you are able to completely remove it.It says I need to be at level 18 class wise.

How would I go about making her the Queen of Succubi?

[Waker]

Actually making her the Queen of Succubi is more of a character goal, possibly brought about through gameplay. We can make suggestions on building a character, but actually becoming the ruler of a demon realm requires actions by the DM.
Once again, Changeling would be a good race since it has a built-in Disguise Self plus some racial bonuses to social skills. The three classes to consider before going into the PrC are Bard, Cleric or Sorcerer. The first one can meet all the requirements by itself, the latter two might require a dip into Rogue to meet the requirements faster. Repeating myself again, but the Changeling Rogue acf from Races of Eberron gives you a huge boost to social skills. In the highly unlikely event that you finish the PrC at level 16 and continue playing, you might decide to finish your character by taking levels of Fiend-Blooded from Heroes of Horror or perhaps Contemplative form CDiv. That would bring you a little closer to being a demon.

[Fhalyassa]

What if I did a rituals as described in Savage Species to become the Succubus? How would that work?

[Waker]

What if I did a rituals as described in Savage Species to become the Succubus? How would that work?

Rather poorly. While the Rituals are okish for low level creatures, a succubus will require dropping 12 character levels or 66,000xp as well as 144,000gp (spread out in increments of 12,000 for 12 levels). The Wish option is less messy, but then you run the risk of becoming a Succubus with fewer or even no special powers.

[Fhalyassa]

Rather poorly. While the Rituals are okish for low level creatures, a succubus will require dropping 12 character levels or 66,000xp as well as 144,000gp (spread out in increments of 12,000 for 12 levels). The Wish option is less messy, but then you run the risk of becoming a Succubus with fewer or even no special powers.Can a Succubus get a fiend graft? I was wanting the Sting Tail but with a change to the look of the tail. Do you think if it possible for my Succubus to the graft that it suffers no penalties for the graft?

So how do I use the following to play as more correct Succubus? (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/80102-savage-species-succubus-3-5-a.html) How I go about getting her more Charisma while playing her? Should I get Increase to Con and Str? I want the Mindsight feat as the feat I will get at 4th level, Flyby Attack, and Improved Natural Attack.