Seeking Assistance: Unarmed Warforged

[Teryon]

Greetings! First-time poster, semi-regular reader(half of my spotty D&D knowledge comes from bored 2am drunken perusal of the forums here..not the best track record come to think of it..)

ANYway, the gaming group I'm part of is finally playing a D&D game. Eberron specifically. I've optimized many a character in other systems, but I'm way unfamiliar with 3.5\Pathfinder. I've decided to go with a Warforged(magic robot ftw), who's centered around unarmed combat and is not a monk. I have an attachment to my AC after all, and taking the unarmored feat for warforged just makes me think 'Great, I'm now Warforged Bishounen'.

I've tried taking a stab at making a fighter around the concept of 'Unarmed combat\tank\enforcer', and found it lacking. Further examination of threads here confirmed my impression that fighter = meh at best. And so, I find out about warblade, ie 'We fixed fighter but wouldn't replace the core class'. 'Cept...I don't actually know how to use the class to make my concept work.

I therefore humbly seek the guidance and advice of the many prickly, helpful and slightly caustic members of the forums. Basic information so far as follows:

Warforged
Starting Level: 4
+2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha

Desired Feats:
Mithral Body
Cold Iron Tracery
Mithral Fluidity

We haven't rolled yet, so I don't have a stat distribution. Even the three feats there are up for grabs, but I like the idea of not needing special weapons for shifters\weres, magic entities and not having my AC impacted by *armor*(dumb idea for a Warforged, I mean really, its my SKIN).

Advice, jokes, recommendations, etc all welcome.

[gorfnab]

Psychic Warrior works nicely with natural weapons such as a Warforged Slam.

A basic build would be something like:
Warforged Psychic Warrior
1. Adamantine Body or Mithril Body(ECS), Psiforged Body (MoE)
2. Psionic Body (XPH)
3. Improved Damaged Reduction or Mithril Fluidity (ECS)
5. Psionic Fist (XPH)
6. Improved Natural Attack (MM)
8. Expanded Knowledge: Repair Damage Psionic (XPH)
9. Second Slam (ECS)
11. Psionic Meditation (XPH)
12. Greater Psionic Fist (XPH)
14. Unaboidable Strike (XPH)
15. Open Feat
17. Open Feat
18. Open Feat
20. Open Feat

Don't forget to pick up a Battlefist.

Another option would be to go Unarmored Body Warforged Monk 2/ Psychic Warrior 18 with the feat Tashalatora.

[avr]

The last iron chef had an unarmed warforged, check it out.

[Teryon]

Don't forget to pick up a Battlefist.



What, exactly, is a battlefist?

[Darrin]

What, exactly, is a battlefist?

Eberron Campaign Setting p. 268. It's 1) a Warforged Component that makes them 150% more awesome and 2) a cruel joke designed to drive rules lawyers bonkers.

(Seriously, read the rules for a Warforged monk, and then try and figure out if a monk can flurry with it. Or whether it's a light weapon. Or a natural weapon. Or if you still get the bonus if you don't attack with it.)

[Teryon]

Ahhhh, so this is the 'Red Right Hand' the other minmax-er, optimizer(:smallsmile:) referred to when informed I was finally conforming to my RL stereotype. From my reading, there's no problems with a WF monk using this, and you pretty much get to choose bonus or not.

But neither here nor there really. Trying to now find Psychic Warrior...

[Darrin]

And so, I find out about warblade, ie 'We fixed fighter but wouldn't replace the core class'. 'Cept...I don't actually know how to use the class to make my concept work.


Nothing wrong with a Warforged Warblade (it's actually kinda hard to screw up a Warblade), but for unarmed, you probably want to go Unarmed Swordsage (it's in the adaptation section, ToB p. 20). At Swordsage 1, you get Improved Unarmed Strike as a monk. At Swordsage 2, you get your Wis bonus to AC when lightly armored... as you would be with Mithral Body. Take Adaptive Style at 3rd, Superior Unarmed Strike at 6th, Snap Kick at 9th.

If you really want to go with Warblade, it's very easy to do: take Improved Unarmed Strike at 1st, and Superior Unarmed Strike at 3rd, and Snap Kick at 6th. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with a Warforged taking Mithral Body at 1st, unless you can take Flaws... so you'd have to delay the unarmed strike stuff for a few levels unless you multiclass:

Fighter 1/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Warblade+17: This lets you get Improved Unarmed Strike at 1st, Superior Unarmed Strike at 3rd with something else, and Snap Kick at 6th.

Another option would be to dip Battle Dancer. This is a base class from Dragon Compendium Vol. 1, somewhat similar to a monk, except it gets full BAB and an AC bonus that's based on Charisma (not exactly your strong suit, but no worse for you than using Wisdom). You can throw in a level of Fighter or Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian in there to even out your Initiator Level.

If Dragon Magazine material is allowed, a third option would be the City Brawler Barbarian variant from Dragon #349. This gives up martial weapon proficiency and shield/medium/heavy armor proficiency for Improved Unarmed Strike and TWF (Unarmed Strike only) as bonus feats, and reduces penalty for improvised weapons to -2. It also still has Fast Movement, so you can trade that for Pounce via Spirit Lion Totem (Complete Champion). You could also take Wolf Totem for another level and trade Uncanny Dodge for Improved Trip.



Desired Feats:
Mithral Body
Cold Iron Tracery
Mithral Fluidity


Cold Iron Tracery you can put off until later... you don't encounter much with DR/cold iron at low levels, and at higher levels there are so many ways to get around DR. If you do go with Swordsage, make sure you pick up Assassin's Stance and Undo Resistance (Fiendish Codex II) so you can tear down Spell Resistance with your fists.

Mithral Fluidity doesn't really seem necessary... feats are going to be at a premium, and you can get roughly the same benefit by paying gold to put the Nimbleness enchantment on your mithral body instead.

[Teryon]

At Swordsage 2, you get your Wis bonus to AC when lightly armored... as you would be with Mithral Body.

That doesn't seem to help me much unless I dump a significant portion of points into raising my Wis out of the depths. Am I missing something or is this just an assumed act to perform?


If you really want to go with Warblade, it's very easy to do: take Improved Unarmed Strike at 1st, and Superior Unarmed Strike at 3rd, and Snap Kick at 6th. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with a Warforged taking Mithral Body at 1st, unless you can take Flaws... so you'd have to delay the unarmed strike stuff for a few levels unless you multiclass:

Warblade just seemed to be the way to go. There's better or at least alternatives, though I'm avoiding barbarian. I just don't want to be THAT crude in-game.


Another option would be to dip Battle Dancer. This is a base class from Dragon Compendium Vol. 1, somewhat similar to a monk, except it gets full BAB and an AC bonus that's based on Charisma (not exactly your strong suit, but no worse for you than using Wisdom). You can throw in a level of Fighter or Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian in there to even out your Initiator Level.

If Dragon Magazine material is allowed, a third option would be the City Brawler Barbarian variant from Dragon #349. This gives up martial weapon proficiency and shield/medium/heavy armor proficiency for Improved Unarmed Strike and TWF (Unarmed Strike only) as bonus feats, and reduces penalty for improvised weapons to -2. It also still has Fast Movement, so you can trade that for Pounce via Spirit Lion Totem (Complete Champion). You could also take Wolf Totem for another level and trade Uncanny Dodge for Improved Trip.

...Um...well, we don't have dragon magazine(alternative means of acquisition always possible), is the barbarian bit highly recommended or more of a 'Well, this is just the usual way to get X', presumably pounce, whatever that is.


Cold Iron Tracery you can put off until later... you don't encounter much with DR/cold iron at low levels, and at higher levels there are so many ways to get around DR. If you do go with Swordsage, make sure you pick up Assassin's Stance and Undo Resistance (Fiendish Codex II) so you can tear down Spell Resistance with your fists.

Mithral Fluidity doesn't really seem necessary... feats are going to be at a premium, and you can get roughly the same benefit by paying gold to put the Nimbleness enchantment on your mithral body instead.

Where might that be found amongst the legions of splats and such? Yes, I know, I should probably google it by now but I prefer asking people sometimes. Especially since I won't have to spend an extra hour cross-referencing to make sure I'm getting the right info.

Of course, thanks in advance and in the future to you and anyone else. Wouldn't want to be rude now.

[Darrin]

That doesn't seem to help me much unless I dump a significant portion of points into raising my Wis out of the depths. Am I missing something or is this just an assumed act to perform?


Unarmed Swordsage is Monk Done Right. The Wis to AC was just kinda a bonus perk, and it works with Mithral Body. But yeah, getting your Wis high enough to take advantage of it would be problematic. Me, I'd just try to stick a 16 in Wis, it gets knocked down to 14 with racial modifiers, and I spend the rest of my career with a +2 AC bonus, the equivalent of a heavy shield.

There may be some work-arounds... Carmendine Monk (Champions of Valor) or Kung Fu Genius (Dragon Compendium) might be able to switch your AC bonus stat to Int. Or you could try using the Magic-Blooded template (Dragon #306) to boost your Cha, and then see if Ascetic Mage (Complete Adventurer) can switch your AC bonus to Cha.



...Um...well, we don't have dragon magazine(alternative means of acquisition always possible), is the barbarian bit highly recommended or more of a 'Well, this is just the usual way to get X', presumably pounce, whatever that is.


Around these parts, Dragon Compendium is considered somewhat more "official" than actual Dragon Magazine material because it's been published in an actual hardback book by WotC, and it's been edited at least twice, so most of the really twinkish/borked stuff has probably been playtested and possibly fixed (although somehow they missed the Unseelie Fey template).

Dragon Magazine material outside of the Compendium is considered with a great deal more suspicion and disdain around here, mostly due to poor or nonexistent playtesting. The City Brawler variant is one of my personal favorites, though. Crunch-wise, it does an "unarmed brawler" much more effectively than the PHB monk. Fluff-wise its a bit of a head-scratcher ("Barbarian... who lives in a city...huh..."), but it's very easy to throw a quick Conan-esque backstory onto your character: family murdered, kidnapped as an adolescent, then forced to fight barehanded for your life in the bloodsport pits of the arena.



Where might that be found amongst the legions of splats and such? Yes, I know, I should probably google it by now but I prefer asking people sometimes. Especially since I won't have to spend an extra hour cross-referencing to make sure I'm getting the right info.


Do you mean the Nimbleness enhancement? Sorry, I forgot to give you the reference: Magic Item Compendium p. 13.

[Teryon]

but it's very easy to throw a quick Conan-esque backstory onto your character: family murdered, kidnapped as an adolescent, then forced to fight barehanded for your life in the bloodsport pits of the arena.

The advantage of being a warforged, as long as it's not class banned I can basically say 'Well, I was a prototype\mutation\experiment during the Last War\had a really weird commander'.

[HunterColt22]

I'd say go the warblade route. You gain bonus feats from a list, but a very good list considering what they are. Plus you also don't have to worry about wis at all. INT provides you with a bonus to reflex saves at lvl1 and you eventually get to put that to good use. On top of that you as a warforged have no penalties to INT at all. You later can also apply your INT mod as a damage boost to your attacks as well, and Warblade gives you access to Stone Dragon Maneuvers which run off of STR mostly which you will have plenty of considering you are a war blade to begin with. Besides its just fun to see an unarmored forged hitting something with his fists knowing you just did your normal unarmed damage plus two points of no save throw con damage to someone. :smallbiggrin:

[Teryon]

Hmmm. I'll see about either potential path(be it Warblade or Unarmed Swordsage). Final thing, and I take full foolish responsibility for not mentioning this sooner: anyone know where to find ToB conversions to pathfinder?

*should not post so early in the morning*

Additional note: If I'm not in contact with the ground, as Stone Dragon requires, how useful could I really be?

[Urpriest]

Hmmm. I'll see about either potential path(be it Warblade or Unarmed Swordsage). Final thing, and I take full foolish responsibility for not mentioning this sooner: anyone know where to find ToB conversions to pathfinder?

*should not post so early in the morning*

Additional note: If I'm not in contact with the ground, as Stone Dragon requires, how useful could I really be?

Converting to PF is a little tricky since there is some dependence in Diamond Mind on Concentration, which doesn't exist anymore. I'd talk with your DM about what to substitute. Most of the rest should be straightforward.

This is why Stone Dragon is generally considered one of the weaker schools. I'd focus on Tiger Claw and Iron Heart.

[gorfnab]

Converting to PF is a little tricky since there is some dependence in Diamond Mind on Concentration, which doesn't exist anymore. I'd talk with your DM about what to substitute. Most of the rest should be straightforward.

Just make it a Martial Lore check instead (that skill doesn't see much use otherwise).