The ambush

[kickassfrog]

So, I've just woken up after having a dream about an ambush type scenario, and have to ask how people think the Order's ambush will pay off.

1) Each of the order is assigned a target to deal with, possibly so trying to take them out by surprise and depriving not-thog of magical support.

2) Group charge in an attempt to take out Tarquin ASAP

Or

3) The old saying "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy" kicks in, and the order have to abort because the mummies are a new element.

Alternatively, anything I didn't say.

[ti'esar]

3) The old saying "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy" kicks in, and the order have to abort because the mummies are a new element.

While there's a good chance this might wind up the result, I have to say it's far more likely to occur because Tarquin's identity is revealed/Team Evil crashes the party/something else unexpected happens. The mummies are fairly worthless, and the most I can see them doing is wasting a few of the Order's spells; they're not likely to prove a spoiler.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well the best strategy if they get a surprise round would be to focus fire in an attempt to take out the most important enemy, which is probably considered to be Nale given the information the Roy and the others are working with.

However, given that the OOTS is not known for taking the most optimal approach in their problem-solving attempts, they will probably opt for something more like this:

1) Each of the order is assigned a target to deal with, possibly so trying to take them out by surprise and depriving not-thog of magical support.

[Roland Itiative]

One-on-one fights seem to be the rule for ambushes in the OotSverse (at least when the Linear Guild is doing the ambushing, that's always the case). I expect the same to happen now. So, it'll be just another LG/OotS clash, with only the roles of ambusher and ambushed reversed.

[Kish]

2) Group charge in an attempt to take out Tarquin ASAP
Ignoring the rest of the group to focus-fire the full-defense character sounds unwise even by the Order's usual standards; I think we can cross it off.

[Forikroder]

3) The old saying "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy" kicks in, and the order have to abort because the mummies are a new element.

consider they already lost at least one mummy at the very first trap i doubt any mummies will make it to the order :P

id like to assume that Roy is smart enough to realise the spellcasters are the weakest link so will plan his ambush around either A) isolating the casters or B) putting the order in a situation to get a surprise round of beat down on the casters

[sparkyinbozo]

Targeting magical support might be a good choice here, but Durkon might be paralyzed with confusion when he sees his counterpart. Alternatively, they could try to split Nale's party, but I find that unlikely.

I'm personally hoping for the "Xykon/Gerard shows up as the Order hides and proceeds to fight Nale's party" scenario.

[Forikroder]

Targeting magical support might be a good choice here, but Durkon might be paralyzed with confusion when he sees his counterpart. Alternatively, they could try to split Nale's party, but I find that unlikely.

I'm personally hoping for the "Xykon/Gerard shows up as the Order hides and proceeds to fight Nale's party" scenario.

i doubt Durkon would get taht confused having to fight Malack, hes not one to really let his personal feelings get in the way of what has to be done

if Malack was a childhood friend that would be a different story but they only knew each other for a couple days

[ThePhantasm]

I'm just wondering what KilKil will bring to the table on the LG side. He must have some sort of usefulness, but we know very little about what he's capable of. He doesn't seem to carry weapons so I assume he is some kind of spellcaster...

EDIT: My point being, the Order can't really be "assigned" to targets individually when a) they were blinded by the sun so couldn't figure out who exactly was in the LG, and b) even if they could figure it out, they have no idea what the newer members of the LG are capable of. Assigning targets with specificity seems like a huge risk.

[snikrept]

I'll go with "Xykon appears, so they all have to team up against him to survive."

[rewinn]

I'm just wondering what KilKil will bring to the table on the LG side. ...
The traditional role of LG kobolds is "Belkar feed". In the outdoors,KilKil would seem to optimized for this role by virtue of being able to fly out of his reach (...why doesn't Belkar have a bow???) but in the dungeon, a hobbit with a Ring of Jumping shouldn't have much trouble collecting another trophy, unless KilKil is been secretly taking levels in monk.

---

Plotting an optimized ambush for the Order vs. what they think they are facing (Nale, Sabine, Z, a defense-oriented tank fighter and one or two others) would be pretty interesting. Durkon in particular has a number of spells that would be useful for prepping the ground (stone shape, possibly animate object and Rock To Mud); his Mass Death Ward might be very useful against the technique Nale/Sabine used to defeat him and Elan. Enchanting Elan's sword so that it might be useful against Sabine would have been a good idea at some point.
A big question at this point is whether Roy remembers enough of the anti-spellcaster feat he learned while dead to use it in ambush.

[ThePhantasm]

I'll go with "Xykon appears, so they all have to team up against him to survive."

I'm pretty sure the LG's plan is to team up with Xykon when he appears, if they haven't contacted him already.

[Kish]

I find it extremely unlikely that Xykon gives a toss what the Linear Guild's plan is; unless they have some means of convincing him (in the few seconds before he attacks) that allying with them will serve him better than swatting them out of the way (which would be a hard sell for me, and I'm not a Chaotic Evil lich whose primary joy in life is watching things suffer and die), if he sees them, swatted they will get.

[ThePhantasm]

I find it extremely unlikely that Xykon gives a toss what the Linear Guild's plan is; unless they have some means of convincing him (in the few seconds before he attacks) that allying with them will serve him better than swatting them out of the way (which would be a hard sell for me, and I'm not a Chaotic Evil lich whose primary joy in life is watching things suffer and die), if he sees them, swatted they will get.

I'm having a hard time imagining how he'll convince Xykon as well, but Nale must have something in mind, given his comment in #821 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html), right? Either that or he was just bluffing or stupid... both of which are possibilities...

[ti'esar]

I'm having a hard time imagining how he'll convince Xykon as well, but Nale must have something in mind, given his comment in #821 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html), right? Either that or he was just bluffing or stupid... both of which are possibilities...

Nale, devising plans that are crippled by overconfidence and lack of information? Surely not!

[Felixc-91]

I'm having a hard time imagining how he'll convince Xykon as well, but Nale must have something in mind, given his comment in #821 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html), right? Either that or he was just bluffing or stupid... both of which are possibilities... My bets on desperate bluff. It's very clear at that point that if Nale doesn't convince his father of his usefulness he's going to die. T knows nothing about Xykon that Nale didn't tell him so unfounded claims are a reasonable choice.

[Forikroder]

EDIT: My point being, the Order can't really be "assigned" to targets individually when a) they were blinded by the sun so couldn't figure out who exactly was in the LG, and b) even if they could figure it out, they have no idea what the newer members of the LG are capable of. Assigning targets with specificity seems like a huge risk.

the only people they dont know in the LG is what the cleric looks like (Belkar will home in on Kobolds no amtter waht) i wouldnt be surprised if they jsut went with there original startegy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0060.html grab your bizzaro twin and beat the living hell out of him) though since there short on V theyll probably at least try and take out Z first

[ThePhantasm]

the only people they dont know in the LG is what the cleric looks like

Huh? They know what Malack looks like.


i wouldnt be surprised if they jsut went with there original startegy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0060.html grab your bizzaro twin and beat the living hell out of him)
though since there short on V theyll probably at least try and take out Z first

I don't really see how this plan would benefit them. It gives them no sure advantage and seems to be a massive gamble, i.e. one-on-one fights that they aren't even sure that they can win. They need some kind of plan that gives them an immediate advantage or else the whole ambush is worthless.

[Forikroder]

Huh? They know what Malack looks like.



I don't really see how this plan would benefit them. It gives them no sure advantage and seems to be a massive gamble, i.e. one-on-one fights that they aren't even sure that they can win. They need some kind of plan that gives them an immediate advantage or else the whole ambush is worthless.

what i meant was since Malack is the only member of the LG they havent actually seen it doesnt matter since they know all the members that isnt a cleric so Durkon wouldnt ahve any problem knowing wich one to duel even if it wasnt Malack

in case you hadnt notices the OoTS rarely manage to come up with plans that do give them an advantage

OoTS VS LG normally turns into 1v1 fights and since this is gonna be the last hura of the LG its only more likely

[ThePhantasm]

what i meant was since Malack is the only member of the LG they havent actually seen

But that isn't true. Show me evidence that they have seen Kilkil.

[Forikroder]

But that isn't true. Show me evidence that they have seen Kilkil.

im not really counting Kilkil since most of the Order wont see him alive before Belkar takes him out

anyway, the point is if they decide to do a 1v1 scenario everyone in the Order will know exactly who there target is

[ThePhantasm]

im not really counting Kilkil since most of the Order wont see him alive before Belkar takes him out

anyway, the point is if they decide to do a 1v1 scenario everyone in the Order will know exactly who there target is

While it may devolve into a 1 on 1 fight (and I'm not as sure as you that it will), their ambush has to be more complex than that. The Order isn't always competent but Roy isn't going to create an ambush that he doesn't think will give them an advantage. That's the whole point of the ambush.

So maybe their ambush will fail, I don't know. But given that the entire Order was fighting Tarquin and having a hard go of it, I doubt they are going to just pair off because "oh, that's what we've done before." That makes no sense, even as a strategy from Elan.

Also I have no idea what your comment about KilKil is supposed to mean, nor does it make any sense. Seems like a dodge and a heck of a stretch at that, but eh, whatever.

[Forikroder]

While it may devolve into a 1 on 1 fight (and I'm not as sure as you that it will), their ambush has to be more complex than that. The Order isn't always competent but Roy isn't going to create an ambush that he doesn't think will give them an advantage. That's the whole point of the ambush.

So maybe their ambush will fail, I don't know. But given that the entire Order was fighting Tarquin and having a hard go of it, I doubt they are going to just pair off because "oh, that's what we've done before." That makes no sense, even as a strategy from Elan.

Also I have no idea what your comment about KilKil is supposed to mean, nor does it make any sense. Seems like a dodge and a heck of a stretch at that, but eh, whatever.

actually a 1v1 isnt that bad an idea, if Roy can keep Tarquin from wailing on his strikers then the strikers can deal with Tarquins support

[kickassfrog]

It's entirely possible that Roy, knowing the defensive fighter is too to beat without their wizard, may order the party to focus on everyone but him.
They know he can capably defend himself, but how well can he defend his teammates.

[Shred-Bot]

(...why doesn't Belkar have a bow???)

Why would the Belkster need a bow? Do you know how many bonuses he could have with a thrown rock? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0745.html)

[EmperorSarda]

I'm pretty sure the LG's plan is to team up with Xykon when he appears, if they haven't contacted him already.

Maybe Nale has. But I doubt Tarquin and Malack know about Xykon. They would not team up because working with/for Xykon does not garner a win for them.