Need help deciding on a class to play

[betelgeuce]

I am about to start a new game with a few of my friends. The only issue is, I'm having a great deal getting any answers about what I can and can't play out of my GM. I do know a few things:
The campaign is supposed to revolve around one of the other players kind of like avatar(don't ask)
I've asked to play a warlock and was told I couldn't have anything evil or that could be considered corrupted
I suggested a druid (I like those and they are fun to play) but was told that it would be tough to play
I've been told that a cleric would work but I imagine I"m going to be forced to play a lawful good cleric and that bothers me. I play Martin Luther clerics not Sweet Jesus clerics.
Could anyone give me some ideas based on these perimeters I have given that I can try to get approved?
I tend to stick to high power or tier 1 characters, that is those with a bunch of abilities that allow me to play them freely rather than 1 ability that I can just spam and hope it works in every situation. I am a little bit of a power gamer as people on the boards might have seen but I am trying to power game as little as possible when I start playing.
Thanks

[Novawurmson]

ToB class? Beguiler? Binder (possible too "scary")? Psion/Psychic Warrior? Factotum? Bard?

[betelgeuce]

In order:
ToB classes might be fun the only exception is I believe we have 2 melee people and I think that might make a problem maybe
I have no idea what a Beguiler is but I'll look it up
Binder would be fun could you elaborate on some fun ideas with that?
The melee classes are psychic warrior and soulblade I think also the GM expressed his dislike of Psionics
Factotum would be interesting. The factotum/warblade combo is pretty awesome so there's ToB plus factotum but there's that melee issue again
Bard is interesting but I would like to be able to roll some damage dice in combat.

[Eldest]

Bards can do a lot of damage, if they work at it: I believe the main trick is using Dragonfire Inspiration, Words of Creation, and Snowflake Wardance to boost your group's (and your) damage output, and then going to town. There's a lot more to the build than that, though.

[gorfnab]

In order:
ToB classes might be fun the only exception is I believe we have 2 melee people and I think that might make a problem maybe
I have no idea what a Beguiler is but I'll look it up
Binder would be fun could you elaborate on some fun ideas with that?
The melee classes are psychic warrior and soulblade I think also the GM expressed his dislike of Psionics
Factotum would be interesting. The factotum/warblade combo is pretty awesome so there's ToB plus factotum but there's that melee issue again
Bard is interesting but I would like to be able to roll some damage dice in combat.
Beguiler is from PHBII. Beguiler Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=1l9532fp2nppcqsk0vtrp97a07&topic=363)

Bards can be awesome in combat. Snowflake Wardance, Slippers of Battledancing, Dragonfire Inspiration, Crystal Echoblade etc. Bard Handbook (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284.0) and Inspire Courage Optimization Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830).

[Flickerdart]

Druids are quite easy to play if you follow a few simple rules:
1) Riding Dog will be your first companion. They are very good. At later levels get something that flies.
2) Natural Spell will be your 6th level feat.
3) Once you're level 8, you have no real reason not to be Wild Shaped all the time.
4) Lesser Vigor is great for out of combat healing. In-combat healing is generally not worth it.
5) Spend some time reading the monster manuals - between wild shape, animal companion and summons, you're going to want to have a few nice bodies bookmarked.
6) Actions are valuable. Long duration buffs are thus really good. Your first action in combat should not usually be spent on a buff spell unless it affects at least one other person. Your second action in combat should never be a buff spell unless someone's going to straight up die otherwise.

[Bloodgruve]

Looks like your group needs some healing. I am playing a Shapeshifter Druid in a current campaign. I like it a lot for the simplicity. I took Spontaneous Rejuvination ACF instead of Summon Natures Ally and Spontaneous Healer feat so my druid is the Tank and Healer of our group. Shapeshifter makes shifting easy and its a swift action.

I'd also suggest Psion>Thrallherd, Build yourself a second character basically. If your group needs healing just grab a cleric or whatever you need.

Bards can dish out some nice melee damage if built right.

You might wanna try a Zen Archery Cleric for ranged and healing.

Beguiler is a fun class, throw in Archivist1 and Versatile Spellcaster for access to divine spells shenanigans...

Iaijutsu Focus on a Factotum/Swordsage can do some real good melee damage, skill monkey and face very well.

Binder may be challenging in your party...

GL
Blood~

[nedz]

...I'm having a great deal getting any answers about what I can and can't play out of my GM.
Red Flag #1


The campaign is supposed to revolve around one of the other players kind of like avatar(don't ask)
Red Flag #2 - I've seen this done in a number of campaigns, I've never seen it done better than badly.


I've asked to play a warlock and was told I couldn't have anything evil or that could be considered corrupted
Red Flag #3 - this could apply to any character class.
"He's playing a Paladin, has he fallen yet ?"

I suggested a druid (I like those and they are fun to play) but was told that it would be tough to play
Spirit Shamen ?
Druid spell lists, bottom of T1 rather than top of T1 - but hey its still T1


I've been told that a cleric would work but I imagine I"m going to be forced to play a lawful good cleric and that bothers me. I play Martin Luther clerics not Sweet Jesus clerics.
Red Flag #4 - This is supposed to be your character NOT the DM's


Could anyone give me some ideas based on these perimeters I have given that I can try to get approved?
I tend to stick to high power or tier 1 characters, that is those with a bunch of abilities that allow me to play them freely rather than 1 ability that I can just spam and hope it works in every situation. I am a little bit of a power gamer as people on the boards might have seen but I am trying to power game as little as possible when I start playing.
Thanks
There are a lot of bad signs here. Maybe you should offer to play a DM ? :smallbiggrin:

[Tvtyrant]

I second the Dragonfire Inspiration Bard, but use the Song of the White Raven feat to stack your inspiration with Warblade levels. Makes you much better at combat, and you have more feats to burn so DFI chain doesn't limit you so much. Concentrate on being a buffing/leadership character with White Raven manuevers and you won't step on others toes.

[Venusaur]

1) Riding Dog will be your first companion. They are very good. At later levels get something that flies.

Or a Fleshraker.

[Mari01]

I would second a ToB class. And since you need a healer why not be a crusader!
Depending on which maneuvers you pick will determine you role.

[betelgeuce]

I realize there are some red flags here. I am giving him some sympathy as a DM who is playing a player. In my mind I think it will be somewhat fun. I am really wanting the druid to play as. I realize we need the "Heal-bitch" or a "Batman" but I think a healer would be more convenient and beneficial to the party. Thanks for all the good suggestions guys. Some of them were already on my mind and some of them are good ways to also look at the situation.:smallsmile:

[Lateral]

I realize we need the "Heal-bitch" or a "Batman" but I think a healer would be more convenient and beneficial to the party. Thanks for all the good suggestions guys. Some of them were already on my mind and some of them are good ways to also look at the situation.:smallsmile:You really don't need a healer. You'll be fine with wands of Lesser Vigor and someone that can use them. Healing sucks.


DM who is playing a player.
Oh, jeez. Is he playing the 'avatar' character?

@V: I hope so, too.

[nedz]

... as a DM who is playing a player.
Oh, jeez. Is he playing the 'avatar' character?

I hope Lateral's parsing is wrong and the DM isn't adding a Mary-Sue also ?

[betelgeuce]

I think I've decided to play a crusader (ToB). Just thinking about all the melee and probably how this is going to end up being like anime....may be good,may be bad, who knows? About the earlier comment lol, I meant I've been a DM a few times and I've also played enough to know when its a save or suck moment or a save or win moment, and this seems like a save or suck moment. Hopefully it will go well.
*edit* also I meant to say I think I'm going with a cleric/crusader build for fluff #1, coolness #2 and some sort of power later on. Thanks for all the good ideas.

[_flint_]

The warlock is neither evil nor corrupted. they can recieve their power from the fey, and npcs would know that.

Druids are not only easy to play, but are well rounded and powerful

other than that i would suggest duskblade as they have the full BAB of a fighter, but also 1/2 caster progression and the ability to ignore ASF and channel touch spells into a weapon, meaning you can cast shocking grasp into a bastard sword and hit for 1d10+5d6 electricity damage with +3 to hit against enemies wearing metal all while wearing a breastplate at only 5th level. Every turn!

I know you already decided, but i felt i needed to put in my two cents

[betelgeuce]

Thanks Flint. I appreciate your 2 cents because that's good stuff to know. I'm currently about to pick through the playground for some more ideas like that, on a crusader build. The phrase "Hold on guys, we've got a badass" is what's happening with our little tier 2 psychic warrior. I hope everyone is ready because it's time to play "optimize your pants off".

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Contemplative 5. 9th level spells, 6th level maneuvers.

Cloistered Cleric 1/Crusader 3/Ordained Champion 1/RKV 7/Ordained Champion +4/Contemplative 4 is nice as well. Loses out on the above spells, but gets you spontaneous War Domain casting and other goodies.

[betelgeuce]

Obviously we all know that the spell casting is what would make a cleric just plain broken. I am not the biggest spell buff ever but I know that things like miracle, blaspheme, mass, greater heal are all great spells. What are some good cleric spells that will help me survive? *insert* I think I can decide when to use what if I have it but not totally sure. I'm going to start looking at options to maximize my crusader damage, shield and sword or 2 hander, etc.

[betelgeuce]

Just a hint my badass party member says his creativity made him able to make his psychic warrior do 8d8 damage at level 3. I said okay that's cool you can do it a few times. I thought well how the hell can I top that. Hmmm being unhittable and not caring about dps would be cool. Currently in progress. He mentions taking advantage of powerful build + 2 handing a weapon of larger size and using psionic points for stuff. Cool idea but I think the playground and I can think of better.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Good cleric spells to use are all of them, Persisted with DMM Persist or Quickened with DMM Quicken. You're gonna need a lot of Turn Undead attempts.

Seriously, though, Divine Power, Divine Favor, Darkness+Blindsight, Righteous Might, Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, Freedom of Movement, Air Walk, Recitation, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Divine Agility, Greater Visage of the Deity, Death Ward.

Depending on your weapon there are some specific spells that could be useful to you.

Find out if you can use Prestige Paladin + Battle Blessing!

[betelgeuce]

All great ideas. Thank you sir. Any ideas on the crusader part that can allow me to do some good melee damage when I'm not casting? Feats, weapons, etc. I'm currently reading my books now for more insight but I may miss a core mechanic that leaves me wanting more and not knowing how to do it.

[Bloodgruve]

For 3rd level you could expand on multiple natural attacks for damage.

Kobold Totemist2/Rogue1 with Dragon Tail feat soul melding Chaos Roc Span and Heart of Fire and flanking could net you 6 attacks with +1d6SA +2d4Fire per attack.

Warforged Totemist2/Barbarian1 with Jaws of Death feat sould melding Garillon Arms, Chaos Roc Span and Dread Carapace gives you 8 attacks with power attack and pounce.

Both of these are useable all day long. Totemist/Barbarian can turn into Totem Rager for fun.

For 'you cant hit me' look at LA0 Tiefling Wizard/Sorcerer with Alter Self. Change to a Ravid for +15 Natural AC, attacks and possibly flight. With Mage Armor and Shield you're sitting at AC 33.

GL
Blood~

[Mari01]

All great ideas. Thank you sir. Any ideas on the crusader part that can allow me to do some good melee damage when I'm not casting? Feats, weapons, etc. I'm currently reading my books now for more insight but I may miss a core mechanic that leaves me wanting more and not knowing how to do it.

The crusader does good damage with maneuvers and your pool. Their strong point isnt really outdamaging the enemy; its outlast him. Between the myriad of ways you can heal yourself and hurt the enemy (Insert devoted spirit strike here), things like Thicket of Blades and Stand still etc etc, you excel at making your opponents hit you and then punish them for doing so/

[betelgeuce]

I'm still currently looking through books and thinking. I've seen the divine maneuvers alot as something good to have. It also looks like power attack and cleave are something I might want to invest in. Divine spirit looks nice. Things that adapt turn attempts like divine metamagic are nice. I'm still on the prowl. I also am concerned about my racial choice. I really am attached to a certain loophole in the game I noticed with LA +0 templates. I found the air element template that is only applicable to abberations in the dragon magazine. In a nut shell makes me almost totally immune to status effects, 100ft fly speed, and DR plus +6 dex. All for the price of having to be an abberation. I'm still looking as of now but any melee pointers for crusaders. My DM said play your weakness. Well my weakness is melee. I don't play them very much.

[betelgeuce]

I'm currently having trouble getting the character to get into RKV at level 5 due to skill restrictions and hide and intimidate being CC. Any suggestions? I know there is a feat to fix it and I'm willing to take it, I just can't remember what book it comes from.

[only1doug]

Able Learner: Races of Destiny (human or doppleganger only) CC skills only cost 1 point / rank

6th Level: RKV (can't get into at 5th as you won't be able to have 8 ranks of Knowledge religion until you have already taken a 5th level of something else)

Feat: Extra Granted Manuever... Can't recommend this highly enough, take it!

[Dayaz]

For 3rd level you could expand on multiple natural attacks for damage.

Kobold Totemist2/Rogue1 with Dragon Tail feat soul melding Chaos Roc Span and Heart of Fire and flanking could net you 6 attacks with +1d6SA +2d4Fire per attack.

Warforged Totemist2/Barbarian1 with Jaws of Death feat sould melding Garillon Arms, Chaos Roc Span and Dread Carapace gives you 8 attacks with power attack and pounce.

Both of these are useable all day long. Totemist/Barbarian can turn into Totem Rager for fun.

For 'you cant hit me' look at LA0 Tiefling Wizard/Sorcerer with Alter Self. Change to a Ravid for +15 Natural AC, attacks and possibly flight. With Mage Armor and Shield you're sitting at AC 33.

GL
Blood~

How do you have 3 melds at level 3? you only have 2 Essentia, and one bind at that time...

[Bloodgruve]

How do you have 3 melds at level 3? you only have 2 Essentia, and one bind at that time...

Totemist2 gets 3 soulmelds, 2 essentia and 1 bind to your Totem Chakra.

Soulmelds have effects even if they are not bound or invested with essentia. Melds occupy a chakra even if it is not bound to that chakra, like wearing a magic item, which can not occupy the same slot as an actual magic item.

In this example I would Meld Girallon Arms (Arm Slot) for 4 claw attacks, Chaos Roc Span (Shoulder Slot) (Dragon Magazine 350) for 2 wing attacks and something like Dread Carapace (Arms, Feet or Heart Slot) which gives a small power attack. Bind Girallon Arms to Totem, and leave Roc Span and Dread Carapace unbound, chaos roc span does not need a to be bound to gain attacks which is not seen often. You can float essentia as a swift action IIRC so you can give your claws +2 to attack each or give your natural attacks -3 attack +3/+6 damage with your Dread Carapace.

Dragon Tail from Dragon Magic is odd, you get a tail attack as a standard action so by RAW you prolly cant use it in a full attack. This, like Chaos Roc Span gives you an attack without needing it to be bound. I would potentially allow this as a primary natural attack usable with a full attack if I were the DM.

Blood~