ECL 3 spiked chain build?

[danzibr]

What's a good ECL 3 spiked chain tripper build?

I was thinking something like human Half-Minotaur Fighter 1/Incarnate 1 or Fighter 1/PsyWar 1, or maybe ToB. Assuming two flaws are allowed, I'd go something like... EWP (level 1), Combat Reflexes (human), Power Attack (flaw 1), Improved Initiative (flaw 2), Combat Expertise (Fighter 1), Improved Trip (PsyWar 1), if I go that path, if just for the Expansion. Hmm, kind of MAD, might have to drop Combat Reflexes. Decisions, decisions.

Seems decent. I should mention the campaign tops out at level 5. Is there any way to cheese Whirlwind Attack at really low levels?

[VGLordR2]

If you take a dip in Binder, take the Improved Binding feat, and bind Paimon, you get Whirlwind attack without all the messy prerequisites. You also get nice goodies like +4 Dex and Uncanny Dodge.

Also, if you're already taking Half-Minotaur, you might as well take Half-Ogre.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Technically you cannot make a Human Half-Minotuar, because Human parent + Minotaur parent = Minotuar. However, the Half-Minotaur template does not specify that, so Human is a valid base creature for it by RAW.

I'd go Human Half-Minotaur Fighter 2, Dungeoncrasher, two flaws, Combat Reflexes and EWP: Spiked Chain. You get Track for free. Your other three feats should be one of the following two sets: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Knock-Down, or Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush and Knock-Back. Both are good for controlling the battlefield, Knock-Down gives you two hits per attack if your trip succeeds, whereas Knock-Back adds Dungeoncrasher damage if they hit a solid obstacle. You definitely want to have all of those as quickly as possible, and I'd get Fighter 6 for better Dungeoncrashing. Be sure to get the Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levels and Physical Prowess (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a), maybe even switch some class skills (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) for Tumble if you stick to light armor.

A good final build would be Fighter 9/ Warblade 10/ Fighter 1, at that last Fighter level you can get Weapon Supremacy (PH2) if you've got all the rest of its prerequisites by then. An alternative would be to take War Hulk as soon as you qualify for it.

[eggs]

Seems decent. I should mention the campaign tops out at level 5. Is there any way to cheese Whirlwind Attack at really low levels?
Soulbound Weapon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) Psychic Warrior + Whirling enhancement (MIC) can get one Whirlwind attack without the usual fuss, and on a Psychic Warrior frame, can use it quite effectively.

The Expansion power and Linked Power feat (+any swift power) go a long way toward making it work in terms of numbers and action economy, respectively.

[danzibr]

Hey uhh, I definitely appreciate all the advice all, but we're maxing out at level 5 (maaaaybe level 6). Still, I'll definitely look into what everyone said.

[Urpriest]

Technically you cannot make a Human Half-Minotuar, because Human parent + Minotaur parent = Minotuar. However, the Half-Minotaur template does not specify that, so Human is a valid base creature for it by RAW.


Have any evidence that this is true in D&D? D&D Minotaurs are rather different from their Greek Mythological counterparts.

[Keegan__D]

Dvati Half-Minotaur, Barbarian 2
Wolf Totem (UA), Lion Spirit Totem (CC), Whirling Frenzy Rage (UA), Combat Wizard (UA)

level 1: Barb, Combat Reflexes, EWP Spiked Chain, Curling Wave Strike
level 2: Barb, Improved Trip
level 3: Wizard/PsyWar, Power Attack & Improved Bullrush
level 4: Fighter, Knock-Down
level 5: Fighter, Leap Attack

If you aren't allowed Dragon Compendium (or the insanity of Dvati is just too much), go Goliath or just Human. If you go Goliath, you could drop Curling Wave Strike and Combat Reflexes for Improved Bullrush and Knockback or Powerful Charge and Greater Powerful Charge. Cuts a bit off MAD and gives you diversity.

The Wizard or Psy Warrior is up to you. I don't pay attention to psionics much, but either will get you the size increase and the bonus feat, right?

[rot42]

If Faerûn regional feats are in, Jotunbrud basically gives you Powerful Build, though it is probably not compatible with Half-Minotaur. Strongarm Bracers and Greatreach Bracers are both affordable by level 6 (both in MIC). Inhuman Reach in Lords of Madness gives you +5' of reach.

I highly recommend that you keep Combat Reflexes - keeping everything prone is your schtick, that feat makes you better at it. With Improved Trip, Two Weapon Fighting, Curling Wave Strike, Greatreach Bracers, and an actual size increase (Linked Power -> Expansion, a friendly Enlarge Person, or whatever) lets you put four targets within 30' prone, attack, then attack again when they stand, plus your allies get to take advantage of the easier to hit enemies as long as you time your initiative properly. Then the melee enemies will need to move to attack, and you can put them prone again. This will generally make up the loss of damage for having a somewhat lower Strength to be able to afford the Dex prerequisite.

[ericgrau]

What's a good ECL 3 spiked chain tripper build?

I was thinking something like human Half-Minotaur Fighter 1/Incarnate 1 or Fighter 1/PsyWar 1, or maybe ToB. Assuming two flaws are allowed, I'd go something like... EWP (level 1), Combat Reflexes (human), Power Attack (flaw 1), Improved Initiative (flaw 2), Combat Expertise (Fighter 1), Improved Trip (PsyWar 1), if I go that path, if just for the Expansion. Hmm, kind of MAD, might have to drop Combat Reflexes. Decisions, decisions.

Seems decent. I should mention the campaign tops out at level 5. Is there any way to cheese Whirlwind Attack at really low levels?
EWP, CE, Improved Trip and CR are the barre skeleton I wouldn't ditch any of those. Then beyond the basic skeleton you customize from there.

Normally I say potions of enlarge person rather than dips, but I assume half-minotaur removes the humanoid type. Even so you only need an 11 wis to use expansion. Combat reflexes is nice with 14+ dex but even 12+ gets you 90%+ of your attacks of opportunity and you can always grab a +2 dexterity item later. And you need 13 int of course. From there you focus str and con, dump cha, and hopefully those stats aren't too hard to get.

If the campaign ends at level 5 you want to make sure you're fully functional at level 3. A trick you might want to use is that toughness is actually a good feat for levels 1-5 (and improved toughness is slightly better of course). Doubly so if you have LA. Power attack also hits its sweet spot precisely at levels 3-5. So while normally I say it's overrated without splatbook cheese, I'd say it's essential here (putting you at 5 essential feats btw). I still say improved initiative is overrated especially since combat reflexes lets you make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. It might be nice if it actually insured that you go first and if you actually won the moment you took your turn, but this is not true. It only helps a small amount and you have other feats you want.

Find out what the setting is if you can. For example if it's in a city it might be humanoid heavy and improved disarm might utterly dominate. Don't forget the net +6 from your chain. Whereas out in the wilderness ID might be utterly useless.