League of Legends XXXV: Jayce, the Defender of Soon™

[Nadevoc]

League of Legends XXXV:
Jayce, the Defender of Soon™



You can sign up for League of Legends here (http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/en/signup/). It's a free MOBA, based on Defence of the Ancients.

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NA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
0tt3r | 0tt3r
9mm | cwcriner
Adumbration | Benefice
aethernox | aethernox
Alemil | Alemil
Alter | AlterForm
Anonomuss | OpticalSage
ArcanistSupreme | Arcanist Supreme
Arbitrarity | Arbitrarity
Archangel Yuki | Yocham
assassin89 | nineballcirno
Astrella | Sirroelivan
AtwasAwamps | AtwasAwamps
Aurenthal | Estor
Baron Corm | Baron Corm
Baxter | Thefettered
BinaryMage | BinaryMage
Blueiji | Blueiji
Bookboy | Keledrath
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Bliss Authority | Companion N00b
Caradryan | Ying Quliang
Castleraven | Castleraven
cdstephens | cdstephens
Chess435 | Chess435
Copacetic | Azbu
Creed | Moarzed
CrnvorousMeece | CarnivorousMeece
Croverus | Croverus
Cute_Riolu | Cute Riolu
Dallas-Dakota | MustacheMan
Dante & Vergil | Raphiezar
Darth Mario | Darth Mario
Daverin | Daverin
Dentrag2 | Callinectes
dgnslyr | GANKERLagann
Dichotomy | Kaellin
Djinn in Tonic | The Djinn
Dogmantra | Dogmantra
douglas | DouglasM
Dragonus45 | Dragonus45
Drager0 | Drager0
Dragor | Supernaturalist
Draken | Draken Frosthand
DrakeRaids | DrakeRaids057
Dralnu | TomerIsHot
dukexx | JacksonHicks
Duos | DapperGuy
Eldariel | Elealar
efdf | efdf
Elagune | Chopstyx
EndlessWrath | Andurin
Errandir | Ramses III
EternalMelon | EternalMelon
faith | Ferrovax101
FantomFang | FantomFang
Faulty | FaultyClockwork
Fawkes | Count Fawkes
FeverFox | Alcopop
Flechair | Master Zealot
Folytopo | Folytopo
Frankelshtein | McFinkelstein
Fredaintdead | Fredthefighter
Gallus | Anechois
Geigan | Geigan
glemis | glemis
Giant Panda | Le Shirrif
Godskook | Bethor Kookalian
Gourtox | Gourtox
Gruffard | Gruffard
Hanuman | HanumanXoO
Hatevah | Hatevah
Incomp | Incomp
InyutheBeatIs | Believe Inyu
Istari | IstariK
Ivellius | Ivellius
Jamin | CapZich
Joran | Jorana
KaizoMK | KaizoMK
Kara Kuro | RaptorKitty
Kciemir | Ghostface Ki11ah
Kettle | Kettle747
king.com | kingcom
Kinslayer | HaunterReqiuem
kmchii | kmchii
Kopaka | CelesHurricane
Kwazey | Kwazey
LegoShrimp | LegoShrimp
Lil Shiro | Mizz Mitchell
litewarior | litewarior
Lix Lorn | ElixiaLorn
Lord Generic | Lord Generic
LordShotGun | LordShotGun
LostEnder | LostEnder
Low-Key | TheFuzziestBear
lvl 1 sharnian | StarryEagle
Lyxie | Lyxie
Maeglin_Dubh | Tycho Velius
Makensha | Jarbis
MammonAzrael | MammonAzrael
Manticoran | Manticoran
MasatoHyuga | MasatoHyuga
Master_Rahl22 | Goltoth
master256 | QWERTYSTOP
Math_Mage | Mathmage
Mattarias, King. | Mattarias
Malmagor Andrigal | Madmal
Maxios | Maxios20
Meatshield#236 | Meatshield236
Merellis | Merellis
Mike_the_Mystic | Kraemer
Milskidasith | Milskidasith
Mindfreak586 | Mindfreak586
Mirrinus | Parallaxal
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Moklok | KokoBWare
mrzomby | mrzomby
Mtg_player_zach | MtgPlayerZach
Mushroom Ninja | Mushroom Ninja
Mutant Bunny | WhollySpart
Nadevoc | Xenik
Nanoblack | IwearSILLYhats
Nargan | Naryuk
Necroticplague | Yamidamian
Neoseanster | Neoseanster
NeoVid | NeoVid
neXianXavia | neXianXavia
NotAEvilToaster | NeonPie
oblivion6 | warcrown10
Octopus Jack | Thalric
PersonMan | Nsev
Pie Guy | Qwazes
pilvento | Kandrass
PhoeKun | PhoeKun
Poison Fish | Baron Von Flib
Protecar | Godreig
Protecar | Atk
Psychotic | SquirrelFish
Qaera | Qaera
ragingrage | ragingrage
Raistlin1040 | Sanevale
Rama | Nargus
Raroy | setokaibasmt
RationalGoblin | AtillathePun
Raveypoos | Rhaviewoos
recklessabaddon | recklessabaddon
revolver kobold | A Magic Kobold
Reynard | Duke Reynington
Serpentine | Lady Serpentine
Shades of Gray | PierreAbelard
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker65
Shadowleaf | Shadowdancing
Shadow Lord | ShadowLordgiantitp
Shadowy | DJPON3Vinyl
ShortOne | LittlePoppy
SidCoolios | Irazel
Silverraptor | Silverraptor
Sircarp | Sircarp
SirSigfried | LibertarianSDR
Slash_712 | Catfud
sofawall | sofawall
St. Viers | St.Viers
Starfols | Starfols
SuperPanda | Lokilar
SweetRein | Riot Reinboom
TalonDemonKing | TalonDemonKing
TechnOkami | Techn0kami
Temotei | Temotei221
Terazul | Allegretto
term1nally s1ck | silverdevilboy
tesla_pasta | generictownsman
Thanatos 51-50 | Thanatos Erebus
The_Fiery_Tower | TheFieryTower
TheGlowingRogue | I Glow In Dark
Themage | SirPelletheGreat
Thethan | Thethan
The Rabbler | Paco H Jones
The Shadowmind | The Shadowmind
The Valiant Turtle | Valiant Turtle
Thrantar | Thrantar
Thrawn183 | Thrawnyboy
throtecutter | throtecutter
toasty | toastymow
Tono | Tono Chou
Treayn | Treayn
tribble | Smallbluedot
Tychris1 | Tychris1
userpay | userpay
Vauron | Vauron
Volatar | The Volatar
wandiya | wandiya
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Winthur | Seyruun
woodzyowl | Woodzyowl
Zabel_Zarock | Jon Talbain
Zeful | Zeful
ZeltArruin | ZeltArruin
Zemro | Shivic
ZeroNumerous | ZeroNumerous
Zeteni | Zeteni
zolga | TheZolga[/table]

EU Server--West
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Acromos | Crannoch
Adumbration | Adumbration
Anonomuss | Anonomuss
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Cheers | Sam vds
Cyborg Mage | Cyborg Mage98
Eldariel | Elealar
Even Human | SlyGuyMcFly
Gauntlet | Isva
HalfDragonCube | giantmudkip
Krazzman | Viskerin
Maxymiuk | Maxymiuk
Mc. Lovin | B1GB1RDB4G3L
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Morph Bark | Morpheus Bob
Nargan | Naryuk
PersonMan | Scarge
Reb46 | Reb46
Reynard | Duke Reyn
Runhidesurvive | Jmack10
Talesin | Fridgecake
term1nally s1ck | Silverdevilboy
That'd_be_me | AntiLocke
TheGeckoKing | Alpharis Omega
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Ziren | Zirenoid
zolga | MasterZolga[/table]

EU Server--Nordic & East
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Dada | Scrattlebeard
Posca | LDRC
Rockbird | Rockbird[/table]

EU Server--Unspecified
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Abakus | Terpfen
Alemil | Alemil
Ayra | Ayramatao
Darwin | DarwinBeGood
Endoperez | Endoperez
Heliomance | Sidhe de Grian
Kurrel | GrinningOni
littlebottom | Littlebottom
lord_khaine | Lord_khaine
Narazil | Narazil
Narkis | Narkis
Penthar | Malderon
Raviepoos | Skittles Unicorn
Shadowleaf | AncientPharma
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker64
Socratov | Mbutu
Voidhawk | Sidhe ne Awk
Volatar | VolatarUK
Zefir | Einerwie
Zombywoof | Zombywoof[/table]

SEA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
abadguy | Smite Thy Enemy[/table]

MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. We're quite a tight knit community, get to know us! Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

Admins: Djinn_in_Tonic (Djinn); Darth Mario; ShortOne (LittlePoppy, Raven); Dogmantra; Nano (Nanoceraptor).

STREAMS
Some of us run streams. You can watch them here.
Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
Lyxie (http://www.own3d.tv/lyxie)

GUIDES
Sometimes people write guides and post them in this thread. Other times pro players write guides that people then post in this thread. They often end up here.
General
Guide to General Common Jungler Set-Ups (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12409551&postcount=575), by Mtg_player_zach
Small Guide to Jungle Counterpicking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12379254&postcount=98), by Winthur
General Guide to AD Carries (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=9234)
Into the Wild - Guide to Being a Better Jungler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10867111#post10867111) by Mtg_player_zach
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

Specific Champions
Riven 101 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12579737&postcount=204), by Arbitrarity
Highly Artistic Blitzcrank guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12380155&postcount=115), by Dogmantra
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board
[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
Jax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11252389&postcount=652) by Mtg_player_zach
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage

CLASSY VIDEOS FOR CLASSY PEOPLE*
Watching these videos makes you a classier person. Fact.
Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)
Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)
Rammus Taunts Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8Q4PM4PXM)

COMICS AND PICS
It's like your eyes are getting a massage.
LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard (with a mention in Summoner Showcase #36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7JWV-HA28&feature=feedu)!)
Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
Gender Swaps (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=606416) by ShowMeYourMoves
Champion Flowchart Guides (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=608154) by Renekton Bot
Patch Day Comic (http://i.imgur.com/kHtwk.jpg) by DaemianFF

TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
Proof we're not all experiencing collective haullucinations.

League of Legends XXXIV: No Exceptions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246004)
League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13142848#post13142848)
League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237600)
League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF And Janna! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234631)
League of Legends XXX: Must be Summoner Level 18 to View (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231927)
League of Legends XXIX: Are Nerfs Vayne In This Grave Situation? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229460)
League of Legends XXVIII: Ahri-Vederci, Dodge. Hello, Viktory. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12466887)
League of Legends XXVII: Your Sister's Hotter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225730)
League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223894)
League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221849)
League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219436)
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵ （╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

[LordShotGun]

New patch thoughts.

I love the new dragon/Baron announcements. Clears up the "Did we get dragon or did they?" arguments that seem to happen all the time.

[Chess435]

Yay, I've named two threads in a row!

[Neoseanster]

I like them, except I don't think the other team should be able to see them on your wards. It seems really weird.

The Ignite change was also good.

The other team was able to see your ward durations before, too. They just had to click on them first.


You generally can win duels with Drain 2, I find. Mostly, I find it's pretty unreliable to be able to Drain for long enough to make it do more damage than high rank Dark Wind. Drain 2 is sufficient to tank Dragon. Also, new jungle is mostly focused around clearing small camps which Fiddles is very slow at outside Dark Wind focus.

That's really the primary argument; good poke, on average more damage in teamfights than maxed Drain, and faster jungle clear. Especially jungle clear is just too critical, I find, to give up for improved dueling especially since Fiddle can escape just about everybody with Terror+Dark Wind.

Hmm... maybe I was doing something wrong. I gave this a try in a game earlier today and felt a fair deal weaker.

My clear time didn't seem all that much faster; dark wind still didn't do enough damage alone to actually clear small minions 'till I got a lot of AP, and it's cooldown is sooooo long! My clear times on large minions (the golems in particular) and buff camps was very noticeably slow. And that's not to mention the lesser sustain; I had started boots and no potions like I usually do with drain and quite dearly regretted it, but it'd have not been quite so bad if I got more assistance with blue (or if I weren't stingy and just bought potions). I lost about half my HP and never got it back 'till I recalled.

[Temotei]

I had a recent game where we were beating them so badly that we started baron with only one ward (placed so we couldn't see any of them coming), kept fighting under baron, and then aced them without losing anyone. In ranked. Wut.

[Nadevoc]

Regarding the dragon/baron announcements in chat: are they always displayed to the other team, or just if the other team is able to see it? Because I don't like it if it announces it through fog of war (eg, you sneak dragon), both because it telegraphs where some of your team is (and not at full health), and it means they don't have to waste time running over to check dragon pit or whatever.

I think Jayce bottom as AD should make for a pretty good kill lane. He can be the kill lane bruiser AND the late game squishy carry.


I like them, except I don't think the other team should be able to see them on your wards. It seems really weird.

The Ignite change was also good.

You've been able to see the duration bar on opponents' wards since it was introduced, though you had to click on it (as with your own). I kind of agree that you shouldn't be able to, but it's not something that was introduced this patch - just made more prominent.

What was the ignite change?

[Eldariel]

What was the ignite change?

Can't ignite minions anymore. Thank the goddess; more than one kill has been missed 'cause a champion is in a swamp of minions and the computer registers you clicking a minion instead.


Hmm... maybe I was doing something wrong. I gave this a try in a game earlier today and felt a fair deal weaker.

My clear time didn't seem all that much faster; dark wind still didn't do enough damage alone to actually clear small minions 'till I got a lot of AP, and it's cooldown is sooooo long! My clear times on large minions (the golems in particular) and buff camps was very noticeably slow. And that's not to mention the lesser sustain; I had started boots and no potions like I usually do with drain and quite dearly regretted it, but it'd have not been quite so bad if I got more assistance with blue (or if I weren't stingy and just bought potions). I lost about half my HP and never got it back 'till I recalled.

Were you getting all 5 bounces off it? Also, you can start Drain and max out Dark Wind first; that's perfectly viable. When I do it I juggle to optimize the Dark Wind hits with couple of autoattacks/drain to finish out camps optimally.

[Neoseanster]

Were you getting all 5 bounces off it? Also, you can start Drain and max out Dark Wind first; that's perfectly viable. When I do it I juggle to optimize the Dark Wind hits with couple of autoattacks/drain to finish out camps optimally.

I started drain, yes, still ended up getting a bit low. WEEQ. I'll try it again later, maybe.

[Eldariel]

I started drain, yes, still ended up getting a bit low. WEEQ. I'll try it again later, maybe.

Oh, one important thing; when you clear a camp, don't Dark Wind the same target you Drain; optimally it'll bounce on the others and you can finish Drain on the target you Drained.

Also, I often go WEEQW or WEWQE and proceed to max out Dark Wind after 6 since you do want Drain 2 early, like I said.

[MCerberus]

Do you ever start laughing and rubbing your hands together when you see a team comp in the loading screen? Because I just broke my pvp killing spree record.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s168/murderouseagle/leagueoflegends/lol6.jpg

[LordShotGun]

Oh, one important thing; when you clear a camp, don't Dark Wind the same target you Drain; optimally it'll bounce on the others and you can finish Drain on the target you Drained.

Also, I often go WEEQW or WEWQE and proceed to max out Dark Wind after 6 since you do want Drain 2 early, like I said.

Which means that Fiddlesticks is reliant on the RNG (random number generator) to be at 100% effectiveness. Same reason stonewall says that tyrndamere is a lack luster jungler.

If you are playing Fiddle to have fun, then go have fun. If you are playing fiddle in order to win, then I suggest using a different hero. If you want an AP hero with an amazing ult, then go Amumu, Nautalist, or Maokia instead of fiddle.

[Mutant Bunny]

r.e. seeing the health and duration bars on enemy wards: if you can see them, does it really matter, since the ward is about to be destroyed anyway?

And according to the patch notes, it only tells the opposing team that dragon/baron has been slain if they already had vision (be it from wards, CV, or a champion in the area) on that spot. In other words, if they have no vision, the Baron/dragon camp marker will still be on the minimap until someone actually checks the spot.

[Nadevoc]

r.e. seeing the health and duration bars on enemy wards: if you can see them, does it really matter, since the ward is about to be destroyed anyway?

And according to the patch notes, it only tells the opposing team that dragon/baron has been slain if they already had vision (be it from wards, CV, or a champion in the area) on that spot. In other words, if they have no vision, the Baron/dragon camp marker will still be on the minimap until someone actually checks the spot.

There are a few cases where this isn't true. I know sometimes when I'm a support, I drop a pink and find a ward, then get chased off before I can finish destroy it because Taric/Leona/stunny support and their AD carry beeline for me.

It's really more of a principal thing, though.

[Eldariel]

Which means that Fiddlesticks is reliant on the RNG (random number generator) to be at 100% effectiveness. Same reason stonewall says that tyrndamere is a lack luster jungler.

If you are playing Fiddle to have fun, then go have fun. If you are playing fiddle in order to win, then I suggest using a different hero. If you want an AP hero with an amazing ult, then go Amumu, Nautalist, or Maokia instead of fiddle.

Eh, even the worst case scenario you're fast enough. Unlike with Trynd, the option of the crow not bouncing is not there; you will get 5 bounces, it's just a question of where they bounce (basically just translates to slightly less health healed).

[Math_Mage]

Time to practice Vayne and Tristana some more. I've only been playing Vayne in order to pubstomp thus far, but I want to see if I can play her to my Elo. Might make up for my constant failure to do so with Ashe.


Which means that Fiddlesticks is reliant on the RNG (random number generator) to be at 100% effectiveness. Same reason stonewall says that tyrndamere is a lack luster jungler.

If you are playing Fiddle to have fun, then go have fun. If you are playing fiddle in order to win, then I suggest using a different hero. If you want an AP hero with an amazing ult, then go Amumu, Nautalist, or Maokia instead of fiddle.

:smallconfused: I can't help but boggle a bit at you telling Eld what he should do if he wants to play to win. I mean, never mind the skill gap, just remember that this is the guy who makes Jungle Janna work.

[9mm]

The other team was able to see your ward durations before, too. They just had to click on them first.



Hmm... maybe I was doing something wrong. I gave this a try in a game earlier today and felt a fair deal weaker.

My clear time didn't seem all that much faster; dark wind still didn't do enough damage alone to actually clear small minions 'till I got a lot of AP, and it's cooldown is sooooo long! My clear times on large minions (the golems in particular) and buff camps was very noticeably slow. And that's not to mention the lesser sustain; I had started boots and no potions like I usually do with drain and quite dearly regretted it, but it'd have not been quite so bad if I got more assistance with blue (or if I weren't stingy and just bought potions). I lost about half my HP and never got it back 'till I recalled.

as a jungler fiddle is SLOW. while the dark wind buff did give him some extra speed, it didn't give that much. If you aren't starting ap (via ring or amp tome) you need at least 1 potion, and potions are still recommended then. 2 points in drain should let you clear any minor camp no problem, and leave with moderate health at a buff camp. most health though typically is lost at wraiths, drain the big one, AA down the one that got the most bounces from dark wind then other and then finish with a drain on the one that had the most health.


Eh, even the worst case scenario you're fast enough. Unlike with Trynd, the option of the crow not bouncing is not there; you will get 5 bounces, it's just a question of where they bounce (basically just translates to slightly less health healed).
I've never noticed a real big difference in healing done as the only camp where the bounce really matters is Wraiths, and that's handled by paying attention.

[ex cathedra]

Which means that Fiddlesticks is reliant on the RNG (random number generator) to be at 100% effectiveness. Same reason stonewall says that tyrndamere is a lack luster jungler.

If you are playing Fiddle to have fun, then go have fun. If you are playing fiddle in order to win, then I suggest using a different hero. If you want an AP hero with an amazing ult, then go Amumu, Nautalist, or Maokia instead of fiddle.

A) Fiddles fills a niche that none of those champions do. B) Stonewall's opinion is not the word of god; he's the most prolific jungle writer, but by no means the most insightful. He's not even platinum ranked, after all. C) None of those champions enable fifteen minute barons.

As Eld pointed out, Dark Wind always deals its maximum amount of damage, and it doesn't really matter that the distribution can be random since you're going to have to kill every single monster in the camp regardless.

Oh, and for what it's worth, if you're playing to win there's no real reason to build AP on Maokai or Nautilus. It can be fun but when you already have an AP carry being unkillable at 40% CDR allows you to contribute much more to a fight. Amumu is different, but I feel like I've covered that several times before.

[toasty]

A) B) Stonewall's opinion is not the word of god; he's the most prolific jungle writer, but by no means the most insightful. He's not even platinum ranked, after all.

To be fair, he's not platinum YET. He never bothered to try hard enough to get to plat, so we really don't know if he could do it.

edit: He's 1818 right now, so he's pretty close to plat. That's after 76 games, which isn't terrible, but its not bad.

[NineThePuma]

Jungling is fun. =O

[fred dref]

Man, Ranked is silly sometimes. I tried it out, played Jungle Malphite. The enemy did not have a jungler. Our top and mid were both manaless. Permanent doublebuff jungle Malphite, with the enemy not warding and being generally useless. We won that game a little easily.

[Math_Mage]

To be fair, he's not platinum YET. He never bothered to try hard enough to get to plat, so we really don't know if he could do it.

edit: He's 1818 right now, so he's pretty close to plat. That's after 76 games, which isn't terrible, but its not bad.

Stonewall also doesn't like Ranked at all. The best junglers in the game have given him plenty of respect, and I think his word is pretty good authority (to the extent that ANYONE has authority in LoL, i.e. not much). That said, using Stonewall's opinion about Tryndamere to reach conclusions about Fiddlesticks is a little hard to justify.

[Winthur]

That said, using Stonewall's opinion about Tryndamere to reach conclusions about Fiddlesticks is a little hard to justify.

Tryndamere's random clear is also not really an issue since the reworks to the jungle and the champion himself. It's really mostly that he is a weaker pick than many similar bruisers, he gets bullied by many new releases, he doesn't bring much utility, and can't farm up that well as a jungler.

Fiddlesticks, I think, is legitimately a scary champion in the jungle even if, say, his blue is stolen. Post level 6, he can turn a lane around. Even at his weakest he's still probably stronger than a shut down Tryndamere. And I'm not one to argue with Master Tactician Azingy.

[LordShotGun]

:smallconfused: I can't help but boggle a bit at you telling Eld what he should do if he wants to play to win. I mean, never mind the skill gap, just remember that this is the guy who makes Jungle Janna work.

I don't doubt that Eld is better then I am. I thought we were discussing jungling to someone new to the jungle. Thus your comment, while true, is inaccurate and a little condescending in your misguided insult. :smallfrown:


A) Fiddles fills a niche that none of those champions do. B) Stonewall's opinion is not the word of god; he's the most prolific jungle writer, but by no means the most insightful. He's not even platinum ranked, after all. C) None of those champions enable fifteen minute barons.

As Eld pointed out, Dark Wind always deals its maximum amount of damage, and it doesn't really matter that the distribution can be random since you're going to have to kill every single monster in the camp regardless.

A. What niche? Sustain? Strong level 6 ganks? I really don't know.
B. Prolific means that he has done his research (hopefully) so I went with his knowledge over my own.
C. True, but too be far NO one else (perhaps jungle nasus) can do that either. :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, as I said before, if you are trying to learn jungling, don't pick fiddle.

He is a lackluster jungler with many better, more effective picks available. I am however, NOT saying he can't work and be very effective, just that it is harder and require successful ganks if you want to matter in the mid to late game.

[Math_Mage]

I don't doubt that Eld is better then I am. I thought we were discussing jungling to someone new to the jungle. Thus your comment, while true, is inaccurate and a little condescending in your misguided insult. :smallfrown:

Okay, that's my mistake. I was missing that context, because the conversation has long since shifted to a discussion of Fiddle jungle between veterans. Sorry.

[TentacleGirl]

So do you guys like written guides, or ironically beautiful mspaint picture guides.

[Mutant Bunny]

So, today, I went up against a Nunu who built Frozen Mallet and Sunfire Cape. I was Amumu. Yeah. Stack more HP. It's really gonna help. :smallsigh:

Also, more picture guides please.

[LordShotGun]

So do you guys like written guides, or ironically beautiful mspaint picture guides.

The Blitzcrank one is particularly beautiful.

[Eldariel]

A. What niche? Sustain? Strong level 6 ganks? I really don't know.
B. Prolific means that he has done his research (hopefully) so I went with his knowledge over my own.
C. True, but too be far NO one else (perhaps jungle nasus) can do that either. :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, as I said before, if you are trying to learn jungling, don't pick fiddle.

He is a lackluster jungler with many better, more effective picks available. I am however, NOT saying he can't work and be very effective, just that it is harder and require successful ganks if you want to matter in the mid to late game.

Actually, Fiddle's base values are so high that he's played as a support by M5 very efficiently. You don't really need items for Crowstorm to decimate teams especially with the flat 60 MPen from Runes + Passive + Sorcs + Abyssal. And even without ult, you have a multitarget silence and a 3-sec Fear.

If you need a mage in the jungle (or support) and aren't sure you're gonna get farmed, get Fiddle; the only champ with high enough base values to force MR and still hurt people with a ton of it.

[LordShotGun]

Actually, Fiddle's base values are so high that he's played as a support by M5 very efficiently. You don't really need items for Crowstorm to decimate teams especially with the flat 60 MPen from Runes + Passive + Sorcs + Abyssal. And even without ult, you have a multitarget silence and a 3-sec Fear.

If you need a mage in the jungle (or support) and aren't sure you're gonna get farmed, get Fiddle; the only champ with high enough base values to force MR and still hurt people with a ton of it.

Hmm, perhaps it is because I only play tanky champions (except TF) that I never learned to fear crowstorm. I usually just turn around and kill him.

[Eldariel]

Hmm, perhaps it is because I only play tanky champions (except TF) that I never learned to fear crowstorm. I usually just turn around and kill him.

Luckily in teamfight you rarely need to worry about enemy being able to do that. :smalltongue: Of course the whole point of Crowstorm is to wreck especially the squishies. It's fine if the tanks survive; will finish them off. Give your undivided attention to killing the squishies in one blow.

[Winthur]

So do you guys like written guides, or ironically beautiful mspaint picture guides.

I write guides for my friends who know the game a bit less than me and I focus on champions and roles I like to play.

As it is, I prefer more humorous guides if I'm not going to SoloMid.net. Like Dogmantra's. It helps if they make out the champion/role to look really cool.
http://i47.tinypic.com/16hkw3c.png
I don't know if I can make playing support look cool with my GIMP skills.

[MCerberus]

Hmm, perhaps it is because I only play tanky champions (except TF) that I never learned to fear crowstorm. I usually just turn around and kill him.

I like it when someone crowstorms when I'm on Volibear, Fiddle just doesn't have anything to stand up to me, made worse by the fact that it's a giant 'kill me' beacon to the team.

I mean, with Thunder Claws up it's like a wooden statue being mauled by a bear.

[toasty]

Ughhh those games where you just can't carry hard enough. Go 4/0/2 in laning, spend most of your time ganking and killing things as quickly as possible, then you have to convince your AD carry to not backdoor, and then you lose because your WW decides that trying to solo graves is a good diea and his only response is "Graves is soloing dragon and no one comes." No you idiot, we did come, but we came the other way, you know, where their team was, and you know, we can't walk through them.

But god he was an idiot. Spend like 4 minutes bottom lane doing jack**** PRESIX and then took about 5 minutes to give the 2nd blue to Brand.

[TentacleGirl]

I write guides for my friends who know the game a bit less than me and I focus on champions and roles I like to play.

As it is, I prefer more humorous guides if I'm not going to SoloMid.net. Like Dogmantra's. It helps if they make out the champion/role to look really cool.
http://i47.tinypic.com/16hkw3c.png
I don't know if I can make playing support look cool with my GIMP skills.
ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME

I watched the A-Team on the way back from my vacay today :M

[Psyborg]

So, is it just me, or have Tristana and Kog'maw suddenly become much stronger picks with the recent popularity of Karthus and Malphite? Being able to outrange the radius of Ground Slam is literally priceless, it seems.

[tgva8889]

I mean, with Thunder Claws up it's like a wooden statue being mauled by a bear.

I see what you did there. :smallbiggrin:

Winthur, I could use a Support guide. :smallsmile:

[MCerberus]

So, is it just me, or have Tristana and Kog'maw suddenly become much stronger picks with the recent popularity of Karthus and Malphite? Being able to outrange the radius of Ground Slam is literally priceless, it seems.

Well, it's never the wrong time for AP Trist.
EVER.

[Psyborg]

Well, it's never the wrong time for AP Trist.
EVER.

*chuckle* Actually, AP Trist is pretty much PERFECT for countering Karthus, because A) she can generally instagib him at the start of every fight, and B) in the process of doing so she knocks him WAY back out of the teamfight, making his passive much less dangerous.

However, I was referring mainly to AD trist, and the convenience of being able to outrange Defile.

[Moonshadow]

Jayce is.... interesting, mechanically. I wondered why Sheen was on his list of recommended items until I found out that he doesn't share cooldowns between his forms. So that makes a lot more sense oh why he'd want Triforce.

Every ability except his hammer mode W (the lightning field) is physical, so I can see last whisper being good on him. He starts with high cooldowns but as you level your skills up, they decrease a fair bit. To the Skies starts at 16 but drops to 8 I think.

Cannon shift defence shred doesn't work on turrets, but Hammer shift bonus magic damage does I think (at least when I shifted to hammer and hit the turret, the buff disappeared but I didn't notice the damage).

Mana costs aren't super high though he doesn't have as much mana as a dedicated caster. Shurelyas seemed nice on him anyways, but if you really need mana you can switch to hammer and regain it via your W passive.

I can see an on hit/bruiser type build working for him, especially given his cannon mode W. Black Cleaver would be good seeing as you can max the stacks out straight away, though how it stacks with your cannon shift shred I also didn't look at.

Personally, I think the easiest line of attack would be to start with the Cannon mode, W to apply any on hit buffs, speed gate and fire your Q through it for the bonus range and damage. Switch to hammer, leap strike them with your Q, throw your shield up but keep E until your Q is off CD again so you can knock them away and then jump to them again.


Still unsure on builds though. Definately think he needs to go bruiser more than glass cannon though.

[Temotei]

Still unsure on builds though. Definately think he needs to go bruiser more than glass cannon though.

Playing against two bruiser Jayces as Nasus and GP and with a carry Jayce, I'd say bruiser is a much more effective build on him. I mean, I stomped both Jayces when I was top lane, but he's new, so...

Also, had two Nunu junglers in the last match. Welcome back, Yeti Rider.

[PersonMan]

Hmm, perhaps it is because I only play tanky champions (except TF) that I never learned to fear crowstorm. I usually just turn around and kill him.

I haven't played non-support Fiddle in a while, but when I do I've found that building pure tank/GP10 generally doesn't keep the enemy from focusing me during my ult.

Which is exactly what I want. They spend their time killing me while my team wrecks them completely.

If I actually built AP it might be a better decision, but...eh.

Also, 5 support team image? Underway.

[Jukebox Hero]

This is a typical ranked game: I get something like 12/6/10, rest of team feeds, and we lose. Everybody yells at one another, insulting, etc, while I try to calm everyone down and try to cover the lanes. Whenever someone needs to clear a lane, all other four players go, leaving me to defend mid tower. Whenever a buff is up, the ad carry/top/support takes it from the mid. Support never wards, leaving me to do it. Nobody focuses in combat. We have no semblance of order,and there are tons of stupid solo rushes, 1v3,1v4, 1v5, etc. Everyone thinks they're invincible/the best/awesome/etc. I hate elo hell. I NEED a duo partner.

EDIT: This is a generalization, but there's always AT LEAST one or two of these on my team.
OH! Also, just played support Janna for a trist that had 52 farm when the game ended...28 minutes in. When we were 15 minutes in, she had 24 farm.

[PersonMan]

Everyone thinks they're invincible/the best/awesome/etc. I hate elo hell. I NEED a duo partner.

If you're on at the right times, I could duo with you.

In other news, a bit of why-supports-rule:

They can 2v7
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz261/Scarge/2v7.jpg

They are brave like Tryndamere
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz261/Scarge/DoubleSupport.jpg

They can fight against impossible odds
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz261/Scarge/spatra.jpg

Playing against them is fun!
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz261/Scarge/trample.jpg

(Yes, that is Ali Pulverize-trampoline-ing on Urgot's fat belly.)

They are better than carries
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz261/Scarge/supportsgreater.jpg

EDIT: Just got an idea. Support Veigar. AoE stun, doesn't need farm (scales on enemy AP, gets bonus AP when he takes CS his carry would miss), he's got it all!

[Reinboom]

I'd like a little help again from any of you, ESPECIALLY if you primarily play League of Legends in a language that is NOT English, Korean, or simplified Chinese. Although, even if you do you may still be able to help.


I'm trying to find sites that have a dedicated guides sections or pseudo dedicated guides sections that are community driven and are focused on League of Legends champions. If the site is of a decent caliber (that is, it's a site that could theoretically be used by a normal person / doesn't look like the web developers on it are still stuck in 2001) then I would like to get a link to it as well as a link to the highest rated Ahri guide on that site.

Currently, my gatherings include:
Mobafire (English):
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/ahri-the-fox-in-the-middle-168014

Leaguecraft (English):
http://leaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/19508-ahri-the-9-tailed-fox.xhtml

Solomid (English):
http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=12667

lol.uuu9 (Chinese, Simplified):
http://lol.uuu9.com/lolgl/strategy_pages.aspx?raiderid=6060

lol.inven (Korean):
http://lol.inven.co.kr/dataninfo/champion/manualToolView.php?idx=3577


With that, any links to more are appreciated!

Edit:
Forum driven guides are NOT acceptable to this research, sorry. So no, I won't be using here. :smalltongue:

Edit Edit:
If there's any of these sites with an exceptionally cool feature that you'd like to call out, that would also be very much welcome.
Exceptionally cool features can be language specific. For example, the lol.inven site above has a neat feature that lets you sort champions by primitive consonants (ㄱㄴㄷㄹㅁㅂㅅㅇㅈㅊㅋㅌㅍㅎ) which is all kinds of awesome.

[Nadevoc]

Playing against two bruiser Jayces as Nasus and GP and with a carry Jayce, I'd say bruiser is a much more effective build on him. I mean, I stomped both Jayces when I was top lane, but he's new, so...

Also, had two Nunu junglers in the last match. Welcome back, Yeti Rider.

I'm actually liking Jayce as an AD carry better from the games I've played as him. Bruiser stats. Accelerated cannon Q for really good poke. And his cannon's W is stupid good with stacked AD behind it. That said, I've basically been replacing PD with Frozen Mallet, so it's probably not ideal, though it's been working..

Top lane, he just hasn't been impressing me. He doesn't really have great survivability or damage for a bruiser, and even in his ranged mode he's not really that safe from the top laners that jump on you. His only way to really keep up in damage, from my experience, is to blow through all of his abilities, and then you have to sit in hammer mode to gain back your mana - and you're not really survivable enough to be giving up the safety of your range.

I've been leaving his ultimate at level one until both Q and W are maxed out. Is anyone else doing this? The level up bonuses just don't seem that great.


EDIT: Just got an idea. Support Veigar. AoE stun, doesn't need farm (scales on enemy AP, gets bonus AP when he takes CS his carry would miss), he's got it all!

I actually played against a support Veigar today. I wasn't bot lane, but his lane lost and outside of lane he was just getting blown the heck up like crazy.

[fred dref]

I hear LolPro is pretty good as far as guide sites go, but I don't know nearly enough on any other language to find a non-English one.

[ex cathedra]

I'm actually liking Jayce as an AD carry better from the games I've played as him. Bruiser stats. Accelerated cannon Q for really good poke. And his cannon's W is stupid good with stacked AD behind it. That said, I've basically been replacing PD with Frozen Mallet, so it's probably not ideal, though it's been working..

Top lane, he just hasn't been impressing me. He doesn't really have great survivability or damage for a bruiser, and even in his ranged mode he's not really that safe from the top laners that jump on you. His only way to really keep up in damage, from my experience, is to blow through all of his abilities, and then you have to sit in hammer mode to gain back your mana - and you're not really survivable enough to be giving up the safety of your range.

I've been leaving his ultimate at level one until both Q and W are maxed out. Is anyone else doing this? The level up bonuses just don't seem that great.

He only has 500 range...
Here's a list of viable AD carries with only 500 range:




Now that that's settled, his EQ combo easily does 500 damage at 1500 range at level 9. It's pretty much impossible to stop Jayce from farming toplane. He has excellent poke, and his hammer form gives him Shyvana-level defensive steroids. Plus, if someone does gapclose onto you hit R for the bonus damage, and immediately auto + E them for knockback in addition to between 8 and 20% of their max health in magic damage for only 40 mana.

Why max W? Like, really. It's super underwhelming in every form. Q>E>W every day.

I hear LolPro is pretty good as far as guide sites go, but I don't know nearly enough on any other language to find a non-English one.

I'm trying to find sites that have a dedicated guides sections or pseudo dedicated guides sections that are community driven and are focused on League of Legends champions.
Emphasis mine.

[Nadevoc]

He only has 500 range...
Here's a list of viable AD carries with only 500 range:




Now that that's settled, his EQ combo easily does 500 damage at 1500 range at level 9. It's pretty much impossible to stop Jayce from farming toplane. He has excellent poke, and his hammer form gives him Shyvana-level defensive steroids. Plus, if someone does gapclose onto you hit R for the bonus damage, and immediately auto + E them for knockback in addition to between 8 and 20% of their max health in magic damage for only 40 mana.

Here's a list of other AD carries who are also legitimately a bruiser:





And I don't see top lane Jayce reaching level 9 without already being a good amount behind unless he's babysat. "If" someone gapcloses? Most of the bruisers top can easily jump on him and pump out serious damage, and his knockback really isn't that far.

[ex cathedra]

Here's a list of other AD carries who are also legitimately a bruiser:


Graves


Fixed that for you. If you're looking for a tanky ranged AD with high-damage ranged abilities, why are you playing Jayce, again?


And I don't see top lane Jayce reaching level 9 without already being a good amount behind unless he's babysat. "If" someone gapcloses? Most of the bruisers top can easily jump on him and pump out serious damage, and his knockback really isn't that far.

How? He has 500 range. You can't stop him from farming between his ranged EQ and W. You may as well attempt to deny Karthus mid; it just isn't feasible. There's literally no excuse to miss any large amount of CS as Jayce without leaving the lane, and I don't see why you're so convinced that Jayce can't stay in lane. I don't even think that he needs defensive masteries; 21/2/7 or 21/9/0 all the way.

Frankly, he strongly resembles Nidalee in lane, and as far as laners go bruiser Nidalee approaches being unstoppable. He doesn't have a heal, but she lacks his strong pre-6 disengage and free defenses.

[Eldariel]

He only has 500 range...
Here's a list of viable AD carries with only 500 range:

Urgot



Here's a list of other AD carries who are also legitimately a bruiser:


Kayle
Urgot
Graves


Carry on. :smallwink:

[ex cathedra]

Carry on. :smallwink:

Urgot doesn't count. :smalltongue: He doesn't resemble an AD carry in any real way other than the fact that he duo-lanes bottom with a support.

I recalled Kayle after posting that, but I never got a chance to edit her in. Curses.

[Eldariel]

Urgot doesn't count. :smalltongue: He doesn't resemble an AD carry in any real way other than the fact that he duo-lanes bottom with a support.

I recalled Kayle after posting that, but I never got a chance to edit her in. Curses.

Teams with Urgot bot generally don't have another AD carry tho so I just skip the pleasantries and count him at one :smalltongue:

[Neftren]

I'd like a little help again from any of you, ESPECIALLY if you primarily play League of Legends in a language that is NOT English, Korean, or simplified Chinese. Although, even if you do you may still be able to help.


I'm trying to find sites that have a dedicated guides sections or pseudo dedicated guides sections that are community driven and are focused on League of Legends champions. If the site is of a decent caliber (that is, it's a site that could theoretically be used by a normal person / doesn't look like the web developers on it are still stuck in 2001) then I would like to get a link to it as well as a link to the highest rated Ahri guide on that site.

Currently, my gatherings include:
Mobafire (English):
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/ahri-the-fox-in-the-middle-168014

Leaguecraft (English):
http://leaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/19508-ahri-the-9-tailed-fox.xhtml

Solomid (English):
http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=12667

lol.uuu9 (Chinese, Simplified):
http://lol.uuu9.com/lolgl/strategy_pages.aspx?raiderid=6060

lol.inven (Korean):
http://lol.inven.co.kr/dataninfo/champion/manualToolView.php?idx=3577


With that, any links to more are appreciated!

Edit:
Forum driven guides are NOT acceptable to this research, sorry. So no, I won't be using here. :smalltongue:

Edit Edit:
If there's any of these sites with an exceptionally cool feature that you'd like to call out, that would also be very much welcome.
Exceptionally cool features can be language specific. For example, the lol.inven site above has a neat feature that lets you sort champions by primitive consonants (ㄱㄴㄷㄹㅁㅂㅅㅇㅈㅊㅋㅌㅍㅎ) which is all kinds of awesome.

Well, there's always the unofficial wiki (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_Wiki) (which does look like a site from 2001, but hey, it does have some useful information on it).

There's always the statistics sites as well. I don't know if they have any direct guides, but I know a lot of them have "partners" or link to other sites. I think LoLBase has a bunch of overseas partners. I personally am a big fan of LoLKing (http://www.lolking.net/) (you can credit A8000 with showing me this one), though I don't believe they host any guides on the site. I do like to think that knowledge is power though. :smallbiggrin:

I've left messages with a few friends regarding German and (Traditional) Chinese guides. Hope that helps!

[ex cathedra]

I personally am a big fan of LoLKing (http://www.lolking.net/) (you can credit A8000 with showing me this one), though I don't believe they host any guides on the site. I do like to think that knowledge is power though. :smallbiggrin:

On a similar note, Elobuff.net, but that's not really what Reina is looking for. It's probably the best site of it's kind, but that's not too surprising considering that it's subscription-based.

[toasty]

Carry on. :smallwink:

Beat me to it. :smallbiggrin:

[MCerberus]

How do you guys deal with those soul-crushing defeats? It just really gets you down when you lose and there's nothing you can do about it.

You win mid lane so thoroughly that the turret falls because you wipe out all the minions and your opponent was chased off back to base. You're positive, the enemy jungler is tracking you to make sure you don't go berserk and murder everyone...

And then there's bottom lane. 1-8. Completely useless in team fights, but you're still winning somehow. Up on turrets, a push away from cracking into the base, and keeping positive by avoiding the finger pointing.

Then you lose an exchange 3-2.
Your team has agreed to surrender 4-1.


It just... you know you would have won. You were fed. They desperately claw to get at you only for you to kill them as the arrive. And your team just surrendered.

[PhoeKun]

It just... you know you would have won. You were fed. They desperately claw to get at you only for you to kill them as the arrive. And your team just surrendered.

I feel your pain. Sometimes your team is just so quick to /ff and you wish you could reach through the screen and smack them.

When it happens, just step away from the game for a little bit, eat a snack or play/watch something else, and remember you'll probably never see those four people again. The next game will be better.

And if it's not? Well, sooner or later you're going to go on one of those winning streaks and feel super awesome. These things tend to balance themselves out eventually, that's kind of what matchmaker is all about in all of its derpy, derpy glory.

[MCerberus]

I feel your pain. Sometimes your team is just so quick to /ff and you wish you could reach through the screen and smack them.

When it happens, just step away from the game for a little bit, eat a snack or play/watch something else, and remember you'll probably never see those four people again. The next game will be better.

And if it's not? Well, sooner or later you're going to go on one of those winning streaks and feel super awesome. These things tend to balance themselves out eventually, that's kind of what matchmaker is all about in all of its derpy, derpy glory.

Yah, it's just that sometimes I feel like I'm in the low-level version of what people describe as ELO hell. I win more than I lose so I know my matchmaking rating is going up, but my losses are, while I cannot be entirely blameless since I make mistakes, mostly due to the blinding stupidity of the team.

My most recent non-Anivia victory was a loss until I decided 'I won my lane, time to bail out bot', and proceeded to start AP Tristing all over some faces. Knocked down a turret, and the team stopped yelling at each other and became unstoppable.



And I couldn't do it here and I hate it.

[Math_Mage]

It just... you know you would have won. You were fed. They desperately claw to get at you only for you to kill them as the arrive. And your team just surrendered.

Then your team didn't deserve to be carried and you'll find a team more worthy of your talents next game. :smallcool:

I don't really worry about losing games when I play well. Soul-crushing defeats happen when I know I'm the one who cost my team the game.

[toasty]

Then your team didn't deserve to be carried and you'll find a team more worthy of your talents next game. :smallcool:

I don't really worry about losing games when I play well. Soul-crushing defeats happen when I know I'm the one who cost my team the game.

The games where I play really well hurt me the most. Generally speaking if I'm too angry to play I try to take a break by playing tetris or reading reddit.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

When it happens, just step away from the game for a little bit, eat a snack or play/watch something else, and remember you'll probably never see those four people again. The next game will be better.

This. I try to never go into a game in a bad mood, and if I have a game that manages to leave a bad taste in my mouth for more than a minute or so, I'll just go do something else. Take a walk around the block, get a snack, look at ponies, doodle for a while, whatever as long as it doesn't involve LoL.


I don't really worry about losing games when I play well. Soul-crushing defeats happen when I know I'm the one who cost my team the game.

Then again, this too. Knowing the team lost pretty much because of me? That sucks. I'm bad and I feel bad. Losing the game because $teammate was too heavy to carry? I've managed to desensitise myself to that sort of thing.

[Math_Mage]

The games where I play really well hurt me the most. Generally speaking if I'm too angry to play I try to take a break by playing tetris or reading reddit.

To be frank, I can't see this as a healthy attitude whether you're playing premade or solo queue. In premade, it should be the team's overall performance that you focus on; in solo queue, it should be your contribution to the team that you focus on. Letting yourself get mad over the factors you can't control, and never have to deal with again, is just a bad idea. Focusing on win vs. loss is the unhappy medium between focusing on making good plays and focusing on long-term improvement as a player. This is the attitude I gained from a number of years playing competitive (junior) sports.

[Nadevoc]

How do you guys deal with those soul-crushing defeats?

I've taken to playing a game of random champion Dominion whenever a game really annoys or angers me.

[Temotei]

I've taken to playing a game of random champion Dominion whenever a game really annoys or angers me.

It also teaches you how to play champions better so you can counter and play them more effectively. Whoo!

[MCerberus]

I've actually found my own cure.
Poppy. Where you charge someone into their own turret to kill them faster.

[Mutant Bunny]

I had a sad game earlier. Enemy team gets Amumu, Sona, MF, Kennen, and Darius.

We could not win teamfights. Ever. Darius got one pentakill.

[toasty]

To be frank, I can't see this as a healthy attitude whether you're playing premade or solo queue. In premade, it should be the team's overall performance that you focus on; in solo queue, it should be your contribution to the team that you focus on. Letting yourself get mad over the factors you can't control, and never have to deal with again, is just a bad idea. Focusing on win vs. loss is the unhappy medium between focusing on making good plays and focusing on long-term improvement as a player. This is the attitude I gained from a number of years playing competitive (junior) sports.

Team queue is different. I don't get "angry" (well, I haven't in... forever). Frustrated, depressed, whatever, but those are emotions that come with losing in general, in my experience. There the goal is the learn from my mistakes and see if I can help teammates do the same. The goal here is to NOT play to my emotions because then I do stupid stuff.

Solo Queue, again, the ideal is to not play to my emotions. Even when I'm ahead. The thing that makes solo queue carrying stressful, especially the specific game that I am thinking of, because I take the game seriously and have to work hard to get the team to work together, and just as we are coming to a point where if we play properly we will win, someone throws. After endless coddling, ganking all the lanes, outfarming everyone, I lose. That's frustrating.

Yes, its not a good attitude. Does it really hurt my gameplay? Sometimes it does. I think there are moments where I let this attitude dominant me and that is bad. But I also think that I'm an emotional player, for better or for worse. I've regained most of my lost elo now and I'm working on simply trying new heroes and taking games one at a time, not queuing endlessly so that I bunch my wins and loses together.

[Math_Mage]

I've actually found my own cure.
Poppy. Where you charge someone into their own turret to kill them faster.

I should go back and try that again. Only, I'm not sure who actually gets played solo top that Poppy wins against. Her best matchups are against physical bruisers, but most top laners are mages (Vlad, Kennen, Rumble), or have lots of magic damage (Shyvana, Udyr, Jax), or have lots of true damage (Irelia, Olaf, Darius). You can do well against Tryndamere, or Gangplank, or Nasus...but you don't see them. So you either have to win lane by being aggressive against opponents who don't know how to handle aggression, or you get a ton of jungle help, or you play super-passive and hope you can score some great mid-game kills. Or you have a tough but winnable lane against Riven or Lee Sin. Or you can play Dominion where she's banned constantly.

So...yeah, I have fun when I happen to get Poppy in ARAM, but I have trouble getting in situations where I can have fun with her elsewhere. :smallfrown:

[Reinboom]

LoLKing, Elobuff, any wiki, and those sort of sites are not at all what I'm looking for.

I'm specifically looking for community driven guides sites. Sites that help you learn the game using a well written sense of direction. Pure data sites don't fulfill this.

Non-English is more important than that even. There's a lot of subtle patterns that are more easy to read from someone's design than someone attempting to explain their design. For example, mainland China's downvotes being green and upvotes being red is very much a unique pattern that's not commonly described.

Edit:
LoLPro does fulfill mostly what I'm looking for though. It lacks the community drive, but its feature set is similar enough that it can be used as a study case. Thanks!

[Adumbration]

There was some discussion on Fiddlesticks on the last few pages, so here's my 2 cents.

Doran's rings. They're good on Fiddles. You can start with one, you can stack them up. I usually build 3 Doran's rings, Sorcs into Abyssal. This gives you a nice chassis to build on.

Dark wind start. It's been a while, but if I recall correctly starting Dark wind is actually faster than starting drain (if you get leash on blue and help on wolves in both cases). The damage buff really shows, and you don't really need the drain until after you clear the first camps. I don't really feel like you need a lot of potions to clear - Drain is a very nice sustain ability.

[sonofzeal]

I've actually found my own cure.
Poppy. Where you charge someone into their own turret to kill them faster.
I'm totally with you. Poppy is great fun to play. She's got some significant problems (poor early game, no reliable disengage, etc), but she hits like a sack of bricks and takes hits just as well. And her Ult is perhaps my favorite in the game so far. She's the only assassin I know who can stomp straight through a 5v5, clobber her target into oblivion, then stomp back out the other side. Forget getting someone else to tank for you, she is her own tank.

Does that outweigh the disadvantages? No clue. But she's fun, and that's what matters.

[Temotei]

I've come to a conclusion about a lot of players: They're not good at being initiated on. While the basic ideas are floating around in everyone's heads (focus, protect your carries) in teamfights, once they're initiated on, a lot of players go into a blind sort of "blow all your cooldowns and do as much damage as possible now now now" mindset, which forces bad moves and teamfight losses.

Now, obviously, being initiated on is a bad thing and you're already in a negative position if this happens. However, it's beyond that. I think there are possibly several reasons for this:


Team composition is based on the meta, which isn't perfectly defined (and for good reasons, but ones that are lost on a lot of players): Players tend to build around the "AD carry and support bot, mage mid, tanky DPS top, tanky initiator jungler" meta. This makes it easy to have a team set up with people you don't know quickly enough to be ready before a match. However, this often forces teams into weird situations with comps that don't fit together either in teamfights or outside of them.
OMGI'MGETTINGFOCUSEDRUNRUNRUN: In the chaos of a good initiation on your team, a lot of players will get scared of the damage they're taking and simply run. Maybe they'll drop a stun or something on the way out. However, this leaves your team in an even worse situation than it was just in, since it's a 4v5 fighting in a position the other team prefers (you're the targets, after all).
KILLKILLKILLBEFOREIGETKILLED: The panic of being initiated on sometimes takes over and someone blows all of their cooldowns and stuns on the first person that comes to mind, leaving your team without their utility or burst and their team with mostly healthy carries.
Panic Ailment #3--Forgetting the carries on your team: It's scary. You want to survive this so you can contribute to your team as much as possible. In the meantime, your carries are being focused down and die.


Before fights, teams will often discuss focus priorities. This is fine. However, it's easy to lose focus when you're initiated on. In order to remedy the "targeted by initiation sickness" that causes so many problems in teamfighting, I believe we do have to take a look at all of these issues and take a friendly approach with everyone in the game, asking them to try something else than what obviously didn't work. Clearly, telling them what to do is out since they'll just mute you or not care, but asking them politely is an easy way to plant the idea while still remaining a team player.

Just talking to your team might not be enough, though. In these situations, try to make a difference by action: do the thing no one else will do and sacrifice yourself for someone who might defend better; protect the carry; focus the tanky DPS who is killing your carry; disrupt the mage's combo. You might be the only one to do it that teamfight, but in the next one, you might just lead by example, salvaging what you can and taking your best to your opponents.

Otherwise, I dunno. Something to think about. I'm sure Math_Mage will have some input on this and some inspiring words. Hopefully, some others will, too.

Also, I hope I didn't mess anything up. I typed this in less than ten minutes, so there are bound to be mistakes...:smallsigh:

[Math_Mage]

Otherwise, I dunno. Something to think about. I'm sure Math_Mage will have some input on this and some inspiring words. Hopefully, some others will, too.

:smalleek: Well, here goes nothing?

There's a lot that goes into why people screw up teamfights. The pressure of the moment is definitely one reason. Another is when someone doesn't have a finely tuned sense of danger, or risk/reward. You see this when someone goes in to get that 'free poke' and gets Flashnitiated on. You see this when the AD carry dives into the middle of the fight to pick someone off, trades 1v1, and loses his team the fight because now they have no damage. You also see it when the Mundo refuses to run in and start hitting things because he doesn't want to die.

More important is the failure to recognize that focus priorities alone don't do much to describe what each champion should be doing in a teamfight. Diving in after your #1 priority will often lose fights, if they kite you. We had an Urgot swap our Kennen into his entire team in a recent Ranked team match--it sounds good until you remember Zhonya's. The focus priorities tell you who to hit if you have nothing to think about except a choice between DPS targets. That's it. If the AD carry has to DPS the tank to stay safe, that's his focus. If the support has to peel a bruiser off his AD carry, that's his focus. It's at least as important to stack damage as to damage the right target; split focus is often worse than wrong focus. How often have you heard this: "Guys, I caught the AD carry, why didn't we win the fight?"

What you can do in chat is to identify the reason WHY you're directing people a certain way before you ask them to do it. Prime the pump and they're less likely to brush you off. "This is a protect-the-Kog comp; Janna, I need you peeling for me before anything else, so save your CC and stay safe." That sort of thing.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

What you can do in chat is to identify the reason WHY you're directing people a certain way before you ask them to do it. Prime the pump and they're less likely to brush you off. "This is a protect-the-Kog comp; Janna, I need you peeling for me before anything else, so save your CC and stay safe." That sort of thing.

This exactly. Often people aren't good in the chaos of a teamfight: if, like me, that's where you tend to play the best, tell people what's going on. After teamfights, for example, I tend to explain what went well and what didn't, how people could have distributed CC better, who saves their CC for which targets, and under what circumstances they can use it on someone else. Hell, one memorable game I started calling target priority for each person and re-calling it whenever it changed, which results in our 0-for-5 getting Aced three times in a row turning into us acing THEM 0-5 with no change in items. :smallbiggrin:

[MCerberus]

One of my favorite things about Volitank is that he's visually noisy (and the regular kind of noisy). You get thunder claws going and everyone starts panicking about the damage, then see the bear's doing it! Let's all chip away at his life bar that has more black lines than green!

[Math_Mage]

One of my favorite things about Volitank is that he's visually noisy (and the regular kind of noisy). You get thunder claws going and everyone starts panicking about the damage, then see the bear's doing it! Let's all chip away at his life bar that has more black lines than green!

I just did this...except with Anivia. Eld is right (as usual): RoA and Warmog's AREN'T mutually exclusive. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

Just had an awesome game with Winterwind, Faith & company, that showcases some teamfight considerations nicely:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9981/leesingertheanticarry.png

Basically, we kept losing fights since we got picked off and initiated on...until we started fearlessly going in despite being far behind (they got two Barons and a ton of kills and stuff). The AOE stun from Kennen, and the spells from Taric, were enough to keep Ezreal alive and kiting, removing their bruisers from the game while Ahri and Lee Sin went full-on assassin (with as much damage from Ezreal/Kennen as they could spare) removing Graves and Swain from the fight.

Without Graves and Swain they had no damage sources and two assassins pop them extremely quickly, or at least remove them from the fight; last teamfight I 1v1d Graves with some abilities down due to having killed Maokai earlier, and he did beat me as I couldn't Cripple him in time, but he got zoned from the fight for long enough that Ez/Kennen/Taric had finished off the bruiser-line. Graves then fell in a brutal 4v1 affair.

[PersonMan]

Solo queue gave me a great team. Yay.

Oh, and every single time the enemy Brand ulted I trolled him by getting too far away from my team for it to jump to anyone after hitting me.

Twice I failed what should have been a Shunpo->Ult and got killed, but 2 of my teammates were close enough both times that we got two kills (Brand with all spells on CD = easy to kill) (+2 assists, for me). Katarina best tank.

[Temotei]

:smalleek: Well, here goes nothing?

I knew you had it in you! :smalltongue:

You're a well-known theorycrafter and it seems like you really enjoy it. I figured you would chime in. Even if you didn't, whatevs.

[Drascin]

There is also a third very important reason - people pure and simply lose track of everything.

LoL teamfights are usually a big ball of violence where it's hard to distinguish who is where and what is what. Most people just say "**** it" and toss all their skills at a random guy because they simply have lost track of themselves in the cloud of spell effects :smalltongue:

[sonofzeal]

There is also a third very important reason - people pure and simply lose track of everything.

LoL teamfights are usually a big ball of violence where it's hard to distinguish who is where and what is what. Most people just say "**** it" and toss all their skills at a random guy because they simply have lost track of themselves in the cloud of spell effects :smalltongue:
http://ragegenerator.com/images/ragebuilder-faces/Sad/i-know-that-feel-bro.png

[PersonMan]

~400 IP from buying Ahri.

Support Ahri news will come after I do.

[Neoseanster]

Nothing is quite as satisfying as monsoon'ing over a wall three 80% HP bruisers from your 20% HP teammates after they dived through the team to pick up a kill on the fed enemy Annie and getting her to complain about how our team is carried so hard by Janna. :3 I laugh in the face of a continuous stream of nerfs!


I knew you had it in you! :smalltongue:

You're a well-known theorycrafter and it seems like you really enjoy it. I figured you would chime in. Even if you didn't, whatevs.

It's quite true, you are! I've got 250 elo on you, and when I read a Math_Mage theorycraft post I still most often find myself nodding along and saying, "Why yes, this is consistent with my experience, it makes sense! This fellow sure is articulate and knowledgeable! He must be fairly intelligent."

[Psyborg]

There is also a third very important reason - people pure and simply lose track of everything.

LoL teamfights are usually a big ball of violence where it's hard to distinguish who is where and what is what. Most people just say "**** it" and toss all their skills at a random guy because they simply have lost track of themselves in the cloud of spell effects :smalltongue:

And this is why abilities like Ashe's ECA, Blitzcrank's Rocket Grab, Urgot's HKPR, Morgana's Dark Binding, Nautilus' Dredge Line, etc., are worth their weight in gold in solo queue: not just because they can catch someone out of position, but because they can give anyone actually paying attention and even most complete idiots a clear and obvious focus target.

[Adumbration]

After experimenting on new Nunu in custom and bot games: level 4 dragon is back. In a bot game, with small leash on blue and damage on wolves, using Heal+Smite and cloth+5 I cleared Drake at 4:30. Did not base inbetween.

In a real game I would persuade our support to pink ward the drake area beforehand, just in case.

[LordShotGun]

Anyone else think Jayce is a really finicky hero without much redeeming factors?

He just seems....average. At everything. That whole jack of all trades, master of none.

[ex cathedra]

Anyone else think Jayce is a really finicky hero without much redeeming factors?

He just seems....average. At everything. That whole jack of all trades, master of none.

Finicky? I don't really get that impression. He seems really straight-forward and he handles really well. What's your beef with him?

[Nadevoc]

After some more games as Jayce top, I'll go ahead and backpedal on what I've been saying. I maintain that his early game isn't that great, but he pulls out of it earlier than I've been saying. Need to level E (I'd been mentally relegating the key to a support spell after having to AD bot my first game as him). Also, started levelling his ult normally. The passive defensive stats are pretty important as a bruiser; I'd somehow overlooked that Hammer Time gave them.


Anyone else think Jayce is a really finicky hero without much redeeming factors?

He just seems....average. At everything. That whole jack of all trades, master of none.

Redeeming factors:

--E does flat damage + 20% max health on a shortish CD
--Accelerated Cannon Q is extremely good poke/wave clear
--Hyper Charge - 3 attacks at 130% damage in just over a second. Accelerate Q, then charge through the acceleration gate and unload this. Then Hammer Time for a Q -> E. It gives you really nice burst, on the level of an AP carry. Except that you're not then sitting there waiting on CDs. You're in the fight, bruisering it up.
--Cannon form pushes down lanes/towers like a boss

Really, now that I actually look at Hammer Time's E, it's stupid. 20% max health is just too much and I expect it to get nerfed. Poppy's Q is 8% max health and is a huge part of why she's so deadly. Admittedly, hers has a 4 second CD instead of 10, but it's also less than half the percentage and... I dunno.

[TheAmishPirate]

So you're in a ranked game lobby. Folks are calling out roles, one guy calls support. The first guy picks Blitz, the caller starts raging, threatening to feed, the whole nine yards. As the picks go on, the team keeps arguing amongst themselves, getting more and more dysfunctional, with no signs of stopping. Trades are refused, folks resign themselves to feeding and losing elo, it just keeps going. It gets down to the wire, and you throw up your hands and dodge. It just isn't worth it to be in a game with these people this toxic.

Only problem is, because you decided to not throw away your time and ranking, you can't join a queue for a half hour.

Am I the only one who gets incredibly frustrated by this sort of thing? Sure I'll just go and play something else for a while, but I feel like I'm getting punished for not wanting any part of other people's terrible decisions or attitudes.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Am I the only one who gets incredibly frustrated by this sort of thing? Sure I'll just go and play something else for a while, but I feel like I'm getting punished for not wanting any part of other people's terrible decisions or attitudes.

It's an imperfect solution to a worse problem. No queue-dodge penalty encourages people to dodge at the slightest sign of trouble. Even with it, it's not exactly rare to get a try to get a normal game only to have three or four dodgers force you to spend ten minutes requeueing, selecting champ, fooling in the lobby, and then back to the queue. In short, the dodge penalty punishes the person leaving, no penalty punishes everyone but the leaver(s).

[TheAmishPirate]

It's an imperfect solution to a worse problem. No queue-dodge penalty encourages people to dodge at the slightest sign of trouble. Even with it, it's not exactly rare to get a try to get a normal game only to have three or four dodgers force you to spend ten minutes requeueing, selecting champ, fooling in the lobby, and then back to the queue. In short, the dodge penalty punishes the person leaving, no penalty punishes everyone but the leaver(s).

It would be nice if there was a way to report/check on lobby shenanigans, if nothing else. Even if they could just see the chat logs. From the Tribunal's perspective, all infractions occur once the game clock starts.

[9mm]

There is also a third very important reason - people pure and simply lose track of everything.

LoL teamfights are usually a big ball of violence where it's hard to distinguish who is where and what is what. Most people just say "**** it" and toss all their skills at a random guy because they simply have lost track of themselves in the cloud of spell effects :smalltongue:

once, as Shen, I thought I'd died and opened the shop and got a triple kill. :smallcool:

[sonofzeal]

Woohoo! My second PvP game, and my second victory! Annie this time. Got 2v1'd in top lane, nearly ganked right off the bat by Master Yi and Veigar, lose a bunch of health but keep enough to stay in lane and harass... and when they get sick of my harass and come to kill me again, I nuke Veigar into the ground and Master Yi barely gets away with his skin. Awesome. The rest of laning was me absolutely punishing them whenever they tried to counterlane. Or someone would come up from the side to gank, and I'd nuke them too. Tapered off in the end-game, but whatever. In late-game my W could literally kill half a dozen minions in a single shot, from full health, meaning I could push lanes like a mofo and still nuke anyone who came near.

Whichever of you mumblers suggested I buy Annie... you rock. :smallsmile:



I think the champions I'm clicking with are... not necessarily the simple ones, but the straightforward ones. Annie's play is pretty obvious - use that Q for lasthitting, and save up your stuns for key moments when you can really give them hell. Poppy's, too, and she's my other favorite so far, although her ult gets a little more creative. Jarven, Draven, and Garen are the other three I've felt a click with, and they're similarly straightforward. The combos are pretty obvious and pretty effective, and it's usually pretty clear what I should be doing in most situations. Good times.

By contrast... my few attempts at support (Shen, Kayle) were complete routes. Total flail with my abilities, blowing them at the wrong times, not really using anything effectively or accomplishing anything. Kayle especially. Beginner bots walked all over me as her. Sadface. I have a fondness for Swain too, but I never really seem to get his stuff to work the way it does in my head.

I'm still looking for other heroes to pick up. Garen and Jax are leading the list for cheaper ones right now, but both are 1350. The other 450's are....


Ashe the Frost Archer
Master Yi the Wuju Bladesman
Nunu the Yeti Rider
Ryze the Rogue Mage
Sivir the Battle Mistress
Soraka the Starchild


Which are viable low-ELO? Which do you find fun to play, or think I might find fun?

Thanks, as always!

[LordShotGun]

Finicky? I don't really get that impression. He seems really straight-forward and he handles really well. What's your beef with him?

Perhaps I just like straight forward characters. For example, I do not like lee sin and rumble but I enjoy Olaf, Udyr, and Karthus (press R to win).

[AmberVael]

Hey, thought I'd drop in. I've been playing LoL for a few days now, but having heard plenty of awful things about the overall community, I've relegated my play entirely to bot games so far. I don't want to do that forever, but I'd prefer not to get torn apart just for starting, you know? Advice or suggestions are appreciated.

So far I've mostly been playing Ashe, and I think I'm vaguely getting the hang of how AD carry is supposed to work.

Incidentally, Zeal, while my word may not mean a whole lot given my very limited experience, I have had some fun with Ashe. From what I've read and seen though, she's definitely a late game player. Very squishy, so you need to be cautious, especially in the beginning. And while I can hit bots reliably with her ultimate, they're bots and kinda stupid. I think a human player could probably dodge it if you didn't aim it carefully.

Her ice arrows (Frost Shot) are really entertaining though. Minor mana cost to slow with every attack? So many ways to use that, whether slowing people down while you flee for your life or making it so they can't run away from you.

[Qwertystop]

Hey, thought I'd drop in. I've been playing LoL for a few days now, but having heard plenty of awful things about the overall community, I've relegated my play entirely to bot games so far. I don't want to do that forever, but I'd prefer not to get torn apart just for starting, you know? Advice or suggestions are appreciated.

So far I've mostly been playing Ashe, and I think I'm vaguely getting the hang of how AD carry is supposed to work.

Incidentally, Zeal, while my word may not mean a whole lot given my very limited experience, I have had some fun with Ashe. From what I've read and seen though, she's definitely a late game player. Very squishy, so you need to be cautious, especially in the beginning. And while I can hit bots reliably with her ultimate, they're bots and kinda stupid. I think a human player could probably dodge it if you don't aim it carefully.

Her ice arrows (Frost Shot) are really entertaining though. Minor mana cost to slow with every attack? So many ways to use that, whether slowing people down while you flee for your life or making it so they can't run away from you.

I started off on normal games, and didn't find much rage til about level 20. I guess I was just lucky to only get matched with other people who were genuinely just starting out.

[sonofzeal]

Hey, thought I'd drop in. I've been playing LoL for a few days now, but having heard plenty of awful things about the overall community, I've relegated my play entirely to bot games so far. I don't want to do that forever, but I'd prefer not to get torn apart just for starting, you know? Advice or suggestions are appreciated.

So far I've mostly been playing Ashe, and I think I'm vaguely getting the hang of how AD carry is supposed to work.

Incidentally, Zeal, while my word may not mean a whole lot given my very limited experience, I have had some fun with Ashe. From what I've read and seen though, she's definitely a late game player. Very squishy, so you need to be cautious, especially in the beginning. And while I can hit bots reliably with her ultimate, they're bots and kinda stupid. I think a human player could probably dodge it if you didn't aim it carefully.

Her ice arrows (Frost Shot) are really entertaining though. Minor mana cost to slow with every attack? So many ways to use that, whether slowing people down while you flee for your life or making it so they can't run away from you.
Huzzah! A fellow newbie! :smallbiggrin:

Feel free to add my as a contact - my Summoner Name is the same as here. :smallsmile: And for what it's worth, my experience of the community so far has been decent; it's mostly the higher-level competitive ones you need to worry about, but the ELO system means you're unlikely to be paired with any of those until you're (theoretically) ready. Also, the Mumblers here are quite helpful if you're open about looking for tips and advice.

[Boowells]

I remember why I like Brand so much.

"Ha! His Q hit a minion. He can't stun me now"

And then they go in for the attack and I conflagrate the minion, setting them on fire and W'ing them.

In my opinion, people conserve Brand's stun too much to effectively use it.
Being chased? Toss it behind you, along with a W. Why DID Brand fall out of favor? His W just does crazy amounts of damage. CRAZY amounts. Whole CHUNKS.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I started off on normal games, and didn't find much rage til about level 20. I guess I was just lucky to only get matched with other people who were genuinely just starting out.

When I first levelled to 30 in EUW there wasn't much rage going on until higher levels. Now that I'm levelling again in NA, I'm encountering all sorts of raging at level 8. I definitely don't think it's server differences, just how the game has changed in the two years between accounts. Then again, I am getting put into games with an average of 2-3 smurfs, not counting myself, so that might acount for it. A lot of them are happy to announce that they got permabanned and are levelling again. :smallsigh:

[ex cathedra]

Perhaps I just like straight forward characters. For example, I do not like lee sin and rumble but I enjoy Olaf, Udyr, and Karthus (press R to win).

Oh, that's fair. Somewhat in-depth champions like Lee Sin, Fizz, and Kennen are some of my favorites, but I'm not particularly good with any of them. My mechanics aren't really up to par; my game knowledge is pretty much the only reason that I've come as far as I have, and I only tend to excel with champions are quite simple, mechanically, like Udyr and Nocturne.

[sonofzeal]

When I first levelled to 30 in EUW there wasn't much rage going on until higher levels. Now that I'm levelling again in NA, I'm encountering all sorts of raging at level 8. I definitely don't think it's server differences, just how the game has changed in the two years between accounts. Then again, I am getting put into games with an average of 2-3 smurfs, not counting myself, so that might acount for it. A lot of them are happy to announce that they got permabanned and are levelling again. :smallsigh:
.... Smurf != Yordle? v :smalltongue:

It is pretty easy to spot experienced summoners even on low level accounts. And there's a heck of a lot. Just about every game I've been in had at least one person whose contribution was massively out of whack with everyone else in the game, going 32/0/16 with a higher CS than half the other players combined. I'm exaggerating slightly, but it's actually a little frustrating, speaking as a newbie myself. If I find myself going up against one I'm going to get crushed and lose the game, even if I'm playing relatively well. And if I have one on my side, I'm hardly winning on my own merits am I? I don't learn as much, and it's not as fun.

I understand there's a lot of legitimate reasons why someone might be smurfing, and I can't really blame them for it. But I can wish there were less of them......

[AmberVael]

I started off on normal games, and didn't find much rage til about level 20. I guess I was just lucky to only get matched with other people who were genuinely just starting out.

Well, just went ahead and shot for it, the game seemed fine. We had someone who looked to be a bit more experienced and was willing to give us some pointers, and between the two of us we kinda trounced the opposing team.

9/1/5 seems like a pretty good start. I think that's better than I've done against some of the bots... :smalltongue:


Huzzah! A fellow newbie! :smallbiggrin:

Feel free to add my as a contact - my Summoner Name is the same as here. :smallsmile: And for what it's worth, my experience of the community so far has been decent; it's mostly the higher-level competitive ones you need to worry about, but the ELO system means you're unlikely to be paired with any of those until you're (theoretically) ready. Also, the Mumblers here are quite helpful if you're open about looking for tips and advice.

Added, I think. I'm AmberVael most places besides GitP, so that's what you should be looking for.

And after this first aforementioned match, my recommendation for Ashe is still quite strong.

[Ivellius]

stuff

Despite the tag, Kayle isn't very good as a support champion. Her ultimate is really good, yeah, but her kit really lends her more to the AD carry/bruiser role. If you want to be in a support role, you should play Soraka or maybe Nunu.

With the recent Nunu buffs, I'd think that all of the 450s are reasonably viable. Nunu works as either a support (focus Blood Boil and Ice Bolt) or jungler (focus Consume, obviously). His jungle is pretty straightforward. Ryze is a good point-and-click mage, and because he scales with mana he can get very durable for a mage. I'd probably recommend him for you and maybe Sivir (she pushes easily).

Really, the cheap champions aren't bad at all. This was admittedly a long time ago, but I had a phase where I played little more than Nunu in normal games when I was leveling through my 20s. And he's been improved since then, although the jungle rework had hurt him.


Hey, thought I'd drop in. I've been playing LoL for a few days now, but having heard plenty of awful things about the overall community, I've relegated my play entirely to bot games so far. I don't want to do that forever, but I'd prefer not to get torn apart just for starting, you know? Advice or suggestions are appreciated.

So far I've mostly been playing Ashe, and I think I'm vaguely getting the hang of how AD carry is supposed to work.

Incidentally, Zeal, while my word may not mean a whole lot given my very limited experience, I have had some fun with Ashe. From what I've read and seen though, she's definitely a late game player. Very squishy, so you need to be cautious, especially in the beginning. And while I can hit bots reliably with her ultimate, they're bots and kinda stupid. I think a human player could probably dodge it if you didn't aim it carefully.

Her ice arrows (Frost Shot) are really entertaining though. Minor mana cost to slow with every attack? So many ways to use that, whether slowing people down while you flee for your life or making it so they can't run away from you.

I don't mind playing with people here. Summoner name is the same as here: Ivellius.

Yep, that's how AD carries work. Squishy but late game monstrosities. Ashe has so much utility for a carry--free vision, extra gold, great kiting, and a global stun/initiation skill.

Best advice I can give you? Make friends! Also, I'd suggest playing against people as much as possible--even if it seems scary, it'll make you better. You play enough games and you learn to ignore the ragers. Sometimes, at least.

[Eldariel]

Ashe the Frost Archer
Master Yi the Wuju Bladesman
Nunu the Yeti Rider
Ryze the Rogue Mage
Sivir the Battle Mistress
Soraka the Starchild


Which are viable low-ELO? Which do you find fun to play, or think I might find fun?

Thanks, as always!

They're all viable, in the sense that you can carry games (low elo or otherwise) with them but from what I've read, Ryze would probably be right up your alley. He has some superficial similarities to Annie, actually, though you build him differently (Tear of the Goddess -> Rod of Ages -> Frozen Heart/Will of the Ancients/Banshee's Veil/Deathcap/Archangel Staff/Abyssal Scepter/Voidstaff/etc.).

[Talesin]

When I first levelled to 30 in EUW there wasn't much rage going on until higher levels. Now that I'm levelling again in NA, I'm encountering all sorts of raging at level 8. I definitely don't think it's server differences, just how the game has changed in the two years between accounts. Then again, I am getting put into games with an average of 2-3 smurfs, not counting myself, so that might acount for it. A lot of them are happy to announce that they got permabanned and are levelling again. :smallsigh:

Having levelled on EUW around 6-8 months ago I really didn't see any rage until I hit 25-26 apart from the odd idiot who was just there to make everyone life's hell but it wasn't a common thing by any means.

Nunu's a fun support to play. His blood boil and ice ball makes trading with the enemies in your lane very effective, his consume helps him stay alive and the kit as a whole is good for helping survivability. Plus the one time you ult in a bush with the whole team running towards you and pick up a triple kill will make your evening.

I'd have a look at a few youtube videos relating to his ult before you play him. It'll give you some great fun ideas on how to use it to max your advantage in lane/teamfights.

Also @zeal, you've said you click with some of the mechanically easy champs but I would say Jarvan and Draven are actually some pretty difficult champions to play really well. If you can get good at these heroes now and carry that experience up to 30 you'll be in good stead.

Have you jungled Jarvan or just played him in lane?

[Qwertystop]

And incidentally, you don't need to mention their titles.

[PersonMan]

They're all viable, in the sense that you can carry games (low elo or otherwise) with them but from what I've read, Ryze would probably be right up your alley. He has some superficial similarities to Annie, actually, though you build him differently (Tear of the Goddess -> Rod of Ages -> Frozen Heart/Will of the Ancients/Banshee's Veil/Deathcap/Archangel Staff/Abyssal Scepter/Voidstaff/etc.).

Ryze is also nice because he has a point-and-click snare, meaning that you can afford to make some mistakes with him and not be instantly smashed if you can snare someone.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

It would be nice if there was a way to report/check on lobby shenanigans, if nothing else. Even if they could just see the chat logs. From the Tribunal's perspective, all infractions occur once the game clock starts.

(Huh. Would have sworn I posted this earlier.) Absolutely agree. Tribunal really should include the pre- and post- game chats. I always assumed there's some sort of technical limitation preventing this, since I can't think of any reason you wouldn't want them in the report.

Oh, and I'll third the Ryze suggestion. Fun guy, very straitforward. Also very tanky compared to most mages, and that's always nice.

[Mephit]

Riot has said before they want this implemented, it's just some technical difficulty that's in the way. It's going to come sooner or later.

[endoperez]

Soraka the Starchild


Which are viable low-ELO? Which do you find fun to play, or think I might find fun?

Soraka is a relatively easy support to play, although playing with her might feel like you're being passive. There is actually lots of stuff to do as her, but it takes time to learn it. Knowing when to silence enemies instead of giving mana to allies, harassing with Q and autoattacks without pushing the lane, timing your global ulti to save fights in other lanes... They're not that easy to learn.

However, if you want to try being a useful support, Soraka is great for that. As long as you know the other guy is good (it's best to queue with a friend for this), you can just heal him and gift him mana and sit back as he owns the lane. You allow him to play better, and you get to see how he plays and learn from him. If you're in voice chat, your ally or allies can tell you to use ulti.

She probably won't be good low-ELO, where your partner might be worse than you, but if you end up in a team where you think you're the worst, she could be a safe choice.

[9mm]

I remember why I like Brand so much.

"Ha! His Q hit a minion. He can't stun me now"

And then they go in for the attack and I conflagrate the minion, setting them on fire and W'ing them.

In my opinion, people conserve Brand's stun too much to effectively use it.
Being chased? Toss it behind you, along with a W. Why DID Brand fall out of favor? His W just does crazy amounts of damage. CRAZY amounts. Whole CHUNKS.

Brand fell out of favor because his hillarious lane control was nerfed... and people haven't noticed that the ones that replaced him are now nerfed to his level. that and ult issues (I miss the days when the ult didn't have a set amount of bounces)

[Eldariel]

Soraka is a relatively easy support to play, although playing with her might feel like you're being passive. There is actually lots of stuff to do as her, but it takes time to learn it. Knowing when to silence enemies instead of giving mana to allies, harassing with Q and autoattacks without pushing the lane, timing your global ulti to save fights in other lanes... They're not that easy to learn.

However, if you want to try being a useful support, Soraka is great for that. As long as you know the other guy is good (it's best to queue with a friend for this), you can just heal him and gift him mana and sit back as he owns the lane. You allow him to play better, and you get to see how he plays and learn from him. If you're in voice chat, your ally or allies can tell you to use ulti.

She probably won't be good low-ELO, where your partner might be worse than you, but if you end up in a team where you think you're the worst, she could be a safe choice.

Nothing wrong with tanky Mage Soraka. It's even been played in tournaments. If you're playing low elo where zero CS support role is obsolete by virtue of people sucking at last hitting, Mage Soraka can be awesome.

[MCerberus]

I'd suggest holding off on your first purchases until something really sticks out from the free rotation. For example, my first buys were Poppy (450) and Tryndamere (1350). At that point I had absolutely no idea what I was doing and later decided I *haaaaaaaaaaaate* playing the latter.

After I decided to stick with free-week stuff, I managed to get Anivia, Malphite, and Volibear (6300 champions are something I don't recommend saving up for though). I fell in love with them, and those are my top 3 played.


Now I'm experienced enough to deduce how something plays by playing against it, but still only buy champs after their free week is up. I haven't bought a dud for a while.

edit- Annie and Sivir aren't bad actually, and Ashe is pretty common to see played. Don't forget to pick up your free Alistar and Tristana!

[Temotei]

Whichever of you mumblers suggested I buy Annie... you rock. :smallsmile:

Could have been Volatar, but I don't go on Mumble, so I dunno. :smalltongue:

I think the champions I'm clicking with are... not necessarily the simple ones, but the straightforward ones. Annie's play is pretty obvious - use that Q for lasthitting, and save up your stuns for key moments when you can really give them hell. Poppy's, too, and she's my other favorite so far, although her ult gets a little more creative. Jarven, Draven, and Garen are the other three I've felt a click with, and they're similarly straightforward. The combos are pretty obvious and pretty effective, and it's usually pretty clear what I should be doing in most situations. Good times.

If you think Draven is simple, you should play him more. Catching those two axes while chasing and running away is hard. :smallsmile:


By contrast... my few attempts at support (Shen, Kayle) were complete routes. Total flail with my abilities, blowing them at the wrong times, not really using anything effectively or accomplishing anything. Kayle especially. Beginner bots walked all over me as her. Sadface. I have a fondness for Swain too, but I never really seem to get his stuff to work the way it does in my head.

Needs moar Kennen/GP support.


Ashe the Frost Archer
Master Yi the Wuju Bladesman
Nunu the Yeti Rider
Ryze the Rogue Mage
Sivir the Battle Mistress
Soraka the Starchild

Ashe's ult is one of the best in the game and it's fairly easy to carry with her if you can stay alive early on. Master Yi is a good jungler and funny laner with Q. Nunu can jungle again (yay) and he's a great support if your carry doesn't suck. Ryze is really simple (point and click to win) and really good. Sivir is underplayed. She's decently fun and somewhat simple, though learning the range of your boomerang is probably the best way to increase your damage output early on so you can hit them more than once. Soraka can be played as a support or as a mage, which is way more fun. Laugh when you stop the mage's combo with silence and still hit them with a bunch of falling stars, then heal the damage they were able to do before with your well-scaling W and ult.

[Eldariel]

Ashe's ult is one of the best in the game and it's fairly easy to carry with her if you can stay alive early on. Master Yi is a good jungler and funny laner with Q. Nunu can jungle again (yay) and he's a great support if your carry doesn't suck. Ryze is really simple (point and click to win) and really good. Sivir is underplayed. She's decently fun and somewhat simple, though learning the range of your boomerang is probably the best way to increase your damage output early on so you can hit them more than once. Soraka can be played as a support or as a mage, which is way more fun. Laugh when you stop the mage's combo with silence and still hit them with a bunch of falling stars, then heal the damage they were able to do before with your well-scaling W and ult.

Careful calling Sivir easy. Doublelift, probably world's mechanically best AD carry player, made that mistake and proceeded to faceplant in his first game with Sivir.

[ex cathedra]

in2LOL's best-of-5 King of the Hill series (http://www.own3d.tv/liveembed/241132?autoPlay=true) is currently ongoing, with M5 vs SK Gaming. qu1ksh0t is a fairly decent caster, and the games are looking interesting already. M5 are running Sona, Katarina, and Shyvana, all of whom have been under-represented in recent months (or years).

[Temotei]

Careful calling Sivir easy. Doublelift, probably world's mechanically best AD carry player, made that mistake and proceeded to faceplant in his first game with Sivir.

Simple, not easy, though, I said. R is a press-and-win ability, W is an autoattack modifier, Q is a skillshot nuke that returns (fairly intuitive), and E is a spell shield, by far her deepest ability. She's simple, but hard.

[MCerberus]

Needs moar Kennen/GP support.


Supportibear.
You sit in the bottom lane in the bushes that are half as high as you. Someone gets too close, you maul them (and Volibear if you didn't notice has some pretty good engage). Then you sit in the bushes, waiting.

And you know they know you're watching.

[Jarian]

Advice or suggestions are appreciated.

The best way I can think to learn the nuances of the game is to play with someone who can point them out to you. There's nothing wrong with learning the game just by playing normally, of course, but when you run into the guy with 80 CS more than you at 12 minutes the first time, it's a little painful. Likewise, learning where to set ambushes, where to ward, when to ward, and so forth, are all things that will serve you well to learn sooner rather than later.

If you're interested, I'm leveling up a variety of lower-level accounts off and on, and don't mind playing a support to help you learn. I only offer advice where it's wanted, so don't worry about being criticized just for learning the game.



I'm still looking for other heroes to pick up. Garen and Jax are leading the list for cheaper ones right now, but both are 1350. The other 450's are....


Soraka is pretty boring as a 0 CS support, but absolutely fantastic at it. It's like having a quadruple-strength philo stone that can throw bananarangs at the enemy team and heal you from across the map.

Oh, and she gives you a thornmail's worth of armor for free whenever she heals you.

I like Annie the best of the 450 characters, but you already own her, so... I'd go with Soraka. In low Elo, you don't have teammates that can reliably pick up all the CS, so you should be able to build a mage out of her, instead of a support-bot.

[Reinboom]

(Huh. Would have sworn I posted this earlier.) Absolutely agree. Tribunal really should include the pre- and post- game chats. I always assumed there's some sort of technical limitation preventing this, since I can't think of any reason you wouldn't want them in the report.

Oh, and I'll third the Ryze suggestion. Fun guy, very straitforward. Also very tanky compared to most mages, and that's always nice.

The servers that drive the PVP.net chat (which includes the pre and post game chats) are a completely different cluster of servers than the game servers. The game servers drive the in game chat.

The PVP.net servers were never built to store that much chat data for long, so it requires quite a bit of engineering to get that system built. Which we definitely are in favor of doing, it just takes time.


snip

Adddddd meeeee in game. I'm so happy to see you finally playing! :smallbiggrin:

[fred dref]

Could have been Volatar, but I don't go on Mumble, so I dunno. :smalltongue:

It was Bethor Kookalian/Godskook, if I recall correctly.

EDIT: And go on Mumble :P

[AmberVael]

I tried out Sivir and Warwick in a game apiece just to change things up. Not sure I like Sivir. Warwick seems pretty fun- seems like there are huge differences between playing him right and wrong though. Sometimes I would get cut down in seconds, other times I would fight off multiple champions at once. I think I'd enjoy him if I got the hang of him.

Meantime though, Ashe all the way. The more I play her, the more I like her skill set.


The best way I can think to learn the nuances of the game is to play with someone who can point them out to you. There's nothing wrong with learning the game just by playing normally, of course, but when you run into the guy with 80 CS more than you at 12 minutes the first time, it's a little painful. Likewise, learning where to set ambushes, where to ward, when to ward, and so forth, are all things that will serve you well to learn sooner rather than later.

If you're interested, I'm leveling up a variety of lower-level accounts off and on, and don't mind playing a support to help you learn. I only offer advice where it's wanted, so don't worry about being criticized just for learning the game.

How to ward in the first place... :smalltongue:
Feel free to add me! As I said, AmberVael is my summoner name.


Adddddd meeeee in game. I'm so happy to see you finally playing! :smallbiggrin:

:smallredface:

Assuming the first post has the right summoner name for you (Riot Reinboom) then done!

[fred dref]

You should totally hop on Mumble. We have quite a few new people, and voice chat is far and away the easiest way to impart advice.

Also, Reina, why are you never on Mumble? :smallfrown:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Nunu is solid, and will allow you to start jungling long before your runes and mastery limitations otherwise would.

If you see me on sometime, hit me up and I'll run you through low-level Nunu jungle (it's what I used to do all the time, pre and post rework, when helping friends get used to the game and having a jungler even at low level).

[Volatar]

Could have been Volatar, but I don't go on Mumble, so I dunno. :smalltongue:


Dude, I haven't played Annie in a really long time.

I should fix that.

[Winthur]

Dude, I haven't played Annie in a really long time.

I should fix that.
http://i45.tinypic.com/axiija.png
She's going to become my main AP carry just because I can afford her on EUW and because she can initiate fights.

[MCerberus]

http://i45.tinypic.com/axiija.png
She's going to become my main AP carry just because I can afford her on EUW and because she can initiate fights.

I prefer my mages to ruin initiates rather than initiate. other than AP trist of course

Troll card TF, Anivia, wow I really only own two mages?! Edit- although semantics, is AP Trist an assassin or a mage?

[Eldariel]

I prefer my mages to ruin initiates rather than initiate. other than AP trist of course

Troll card TF, Anivia, wow I really only own two mages?! Edit- although semantics, is AP Trist an assassin or a mage?

Assassins can be mages.

[sonofzeal]

If you think Draven is simple, you should play him more. Catching those two axes while chasing and running away is hard. :smallsmile:
Well, that's why I scratched "simple" and went with "straightforward". With Draven, a lot of it comes down to catching those axes reliably, and if you're doing that reliably you're probably going to do well. It's not an easy skill to master, but at least I know what I should be trying to do. Which is a fair shot better than my experiences with Kayle.


Ashe's ult is one of the best in the game and it's fairly easy to carry with her if you can stay alive early on. Master Yi is a good jungler and funny laner with Q. Nunu can jungle again (yay) and he's a great support if your carry doesn't suck. Ryze is really simple (point and click to win) and really good. Sivir is underplayed. She's decently fun and somewhat simple, though learning the range of your boomerang is probably the best way to increase your damage output early on so you can hit them more than once. Soraka can be played as a support or as a mage, which is way more fun. Laugh when you stop the mage's combo with silence and still hit them with a bunch of falling stars, then heal the damage they were able to do before with your well-scaling W and ult.
So basically, all of them are good huh? :smallbiggrin:

[Mephit]

So basically, all of them are good huh? :smallbiggrin:



There's really not that many 'bad' champions in the game, most of them are good picks. Annie, Sivir and Yi aren't that popular but they're by no means bad.

Some champions are more powerful than others, for instance Nautilus is a very prominent jungler right now because he's really tanky, does ok damage lategame and offers a host of cc to his team. Giving you a list of champions that are considered overpowered and are popular right now would be source of endless discussion though, and it's subject to change every patch because of nerfs and buffs.

The only champions I'd advise you to stay away from are Evelynn and Xin Zhao. They're both consciously kept underpowered by Riot because they have certain design flaws. Riot is working on a rework for them so they can be brought up to the normal power level again.
Other than that, try out champions in the free week to see if you like them, especially when it comes to buying 3150 or 6300 champs. That's a lot of hard-earned IP to spend on a champion to find out you really don't like his playstyle.

Finally, there's a Solo Queue tier list on Reign of Gaming (http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-lists/solo-tier-list) that's maybe not a definitive list but a good guideline to judge the strength of characters in solo queue - in other words, how easy it is the carry with them. I don't think it's all that important to worry about this, especially at pre-2000 ELO where the plays you make are so much more important than what champion you play. But if it's something you really concern yourself with, it's a resource that's there.

Of course, if you want a final answer to your questions about a champion, there's always the LoL Experts over at Giantitp. :smallwink:

[Qwertystop]

Comprehensive AP trist guide? Please? I don't trust guide-sites for unconventional stuff, and you lot are better at the stuff beyond "buy this".

[tgva8889]

Nunu is solid, and will allow you to start jungling long before your runes and mastery limitations otherwise would.

If you see me on sometime, hit me up and I'll run you through low-level Nunu jungle (it's what I used to do all the time, pre and post rework, when helping friends get used to the game and having a jungler even at low level).

May I partake in this learning, too? Jungling has always interested me, so it'd be good to learn some basics even though I'm low-level.

[MCerberus]

Comprehensive AP trist guide? Please? I don't trust guide-sites for unconventional stuff, and you lot are better at the stuff beyond "buy this".

Masteries: 21/9/0 or 21/0/9. The latter has more sustain, and sustain IS FOR SUCKERS.

Runes: Take your standard AP runes, maybe take out the mana regen yellows for something else. Pen/whatever/ flat or scaling AP/ AP. Flash/ignite like most mages works out well. Since trist is squishy, heal isn't terrible, but you lose ignite.

Alright, so your big issue going mid to late game is sustain. You aren't chaining abilities often early, so you're good there for a while. I like to go boots/potions, but Doran's Ring is also good.

As for the first ability, I like E. It gives you a poke and activates your REAL passive, since the added range is just for getting a last hit in. If you're worried about being killed early, take W for the escape.

At level 1, pretend you're a standard AD carry. Last hit and poke if necessary. If you picked W first, do not use it offensively, without E it has no teeth. Get to level 2, now we're in business. Your main form of aggression comes from the spectre of jumps when your enemy is next to minions. If you catch them in a minion swarm and your jump would kill the minions, they are dead.

Use your e *while* you are in the air. You can do this, and it means all your damage hits at once. Ignite and they're either dead or forced off the lane. Never *EVER* jump offensively to attack a champion without having another ability up. Alternate between leveling w-e taking the ultimate as it arrives. Ward as always, and if you suspect you're in gank range, don't engage and keep your W in reserve. Once you get to level 10, you can destroy an entire wave with one jump making your farming good. If you see that the enemy is pushing another lane, jump on it. An AD that's attacking a turret DIES OUTRIGHT often to a single W.

Snowballing and you: keep an eye on your mana, remember you can rocket jump again to either attack or retreat. In team fights, go all-in on one of their carries after the engage. w-e-ignite-r. You're betting on that they don't have time to react to this or that's enough to burn them down. After this, mario time. Just keep jumping.

Your weaknesses are: 1, long cooldowns. Really long. If you can't get an assist you're sidelined for a bit. 2, squishy. So squishy.

Items I like:
Deathcap (obviously)
Rod of Ages (for when they don't realize you're a threat and allow you to build some more mana)
Zhona's Hourglass (nothing like jumping in, murdering someone, then being immune to their counter-attack)
Hextech Revolver (gives you a lot of health if you're still farming while you have it)

Defensive stuff:
Banshee's Veil helps you get your big burst off
Frozen Heart if you need the armor, since you jump into the fray and also CDR
Abyssal Scepter if you need the MR
Guardian Angel because it's funny

Not mentioned: that thing that has the active to hurt people lots with magic damage. I just keep forgetting to use it. It is theoretically amazing, if you can hit someone with it mid-air.

That's how I play it, someone will likely correct me. One of the meanest tricks is to seemingly randomly auto-attack a minion wave. Get them all to half health and BOOM.

[fred dref]

I'll be honest, I actually hadn't thought of the implications of tons of minions popping at the same time.

[ex cathedra]

That's how I play it, someone will likely correct me. One of the meanest tricks is to seemingly randomly auto-attack a minion wave. Get them all to half health and BOOM.

It's important to note that Deathfire Grasp is probably the single most important part of her build, and it should almost always be the first major item that you complete.

[Godskook]

Whichever of you mumblers suggested I buy Annie... you rock. :smallsmile:

I know I said it to you multiple times, but I may or may not be the one you remember saying it.



By contrast... my few attempts at support (Shen, Kayle) were complete routes. Total flail with my abilities, blowing them at the wrong times, not really using anything effectively or accomplishing anything. Kayle especially. Beginner bots walked all over me as her. Sadface. I have a fondness for Swain too, but I never really seem to get his stuff to work the way it does in my head.

Supports, in my experience, don't do well in bot games. Most of what makes a support a support revolves around counter-play(wards, etc) and resource management. Bots don't really 'think', so counter-play is much simpler and bots get gold no matter what, so the only way to easily keep up is through high kill counts(something supports don't do).

Honestly, as a new player, I'd avoid playing supports till you at least get comfortable playing pvp matches.


Which are viable low-ELO? Which do you find fun to play, or think I might find fun?

Ryze - A great mage to learn, really strong right now. Also is uniquely qualified to counter Veigar in mid once you start doing draft mode games with people who know the meta. Buy tear asap, but rush your defensive items as needed to never be forced out of lane. I run two builds on him:

General: Archangels/Mercs/(RoA or WotA)/Frozen Heart/BV/Optional(typically Deathcap or Void)

LBC: Archangels/Mercs/RoA/Frozen Heart/Lich Bane/Deathcap

The LBC(lich bane conversion) I run when I feel like the enemy team isn't focusing me, but for some reason the game is long enough to buy a 5th and 6th item.

------------------

Got Jayce, and I'm enjoying him so far. I'm running him much like an AD bruiser/caster building things like Phage, Maw and Atmas, which contribute well to his good AD scaling. When top, I'm going R>Q>W>E, but start QEWQ for better skill comboing. I don't bother with much AS, since normally, his W makes up for it, *ESPECIALLY* against turrets, where Jayce is one of a few champs who can meaningfully turret-poke without minions.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Nunu is solid, and will allow you to start jungling long before your runes and mastery limitations otherwise would.

How do you jungle with Nunu? I'd guess a level in consume and bloodboil and then focus snowball, maybe two ranks in Consume? How about items? Philostone into tanky AP stuff? Can you build tanky on-hit to leverage the AS steroid?

[Reinboom]

You should totally hop on Mumble. We have quite a few new people, and voice chat is far and away the easiest way to impart advice.

Also, Reina, why are you never on Mumble? :smallfrown:

I'm at work a lot, and when I'm not at work I tend to play things that are not League.
While at work, I can't usually use a mic for risk of it picking up a sensitive background conversations.

[JKTrickster]

Hi guys! Popping into this thread once again. I actually started 6 months ago but I play on and off. I asked a question on these threads before so this is really my second time around here. But anyway, I hope I can get to play with some of you soon!

My LoL name is ZenTrickster

So anyway I need a little help:

I'm thinking of playing around with Shen more, and trying to figure out a more useful build and rune setup for him.

Item build wise, I'm trying to figure out how important a "lane clearing" item is for Shen. Shen is a great split pusher, but it is hampered by his poor lane pushing skills - he actually doesn't clear huge minion waves that easily.

Traditionally I would use Sunfire Cape for this function but with the recent buff to Ionic Spark, which one is more "worth it"?

What swayed my opinion was this analysis (http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/vvinrar/20876-how-did-the-jayce-patch-affect-ionic-spark) - it seems...trustworthy but I don't actually understand the math. But I do get the idea - my only worry is that the math isn't correct for some reason.

If you guys have any other suggestions I would love to hear it :smallbiggrin:

Now onto runes for Shen, would it be better to run Magic Pen Marks or Attack Speed Marks? Theoretically Attack Speed is to proc his passive more often while Magic Pen Marks allow for better lane harassment early on.

I'm not quite sure about this one - is it more of a situational thing?

Anyway thanks and I hope I can play with some of you soon!

[Mutant Bunny]

How do you jungle with Nunu? I'd guess a level in consume and bloodboil and then focus snowball, maybe two ranks in Consume? How about items? Philostone into tanky AP stuff? Can you build tanky on-hit to leverage the AS steroid?

Nunu can start boots+pots. He has enough sustain he'll be pretty nearly topped off in both mana and HP due to his Q and passive, so philo stone isn't really necessary.

You want an early Catalyst- or at least that used to be the popular choice- to be made into a Rod of Ages or Banshee's Veil, depending on whether the enemy team is likely to break your ultimate's channel.

When you use your ulti, you'll probably either make the enemy flash away or you'll draw their stuns/silences (if they have any). Keep than in mind when you're trying to decide when to use your ultimate. If they have no stuns or escapes on their character (Mundo, Kogmaw, Lux, etc), or else have recently used those abilities (an alistar who has just used his headbutt-pulverize combo), you may well be able to get the full damage out of it.

Ice ball takes up a lot of mana at higher ranks. Keep that in mind when you have your passive ready for that free spell.

[fred dref]

I'm at work a lot, and when I'm not at work I tend to play things that are not League.
While at work, I can't usually use a mic for risk of it picking up a sensitive background conversations.

That is both annoying and totally reasonable.

[Temotei]

Dude, I haven't played Annie in a really long time.

I should fix that.

Yeah. You own all of her skins, right? Or did you not get the reversal one?

[Nadevoc]

So I can apparently play Ashe somewhat decently. This is surprising/exciting because I'm overall very bad at AD carries. But I've realized that when I play Ashe, I tend to be passable. Then I get confident and figure I can AD carry and try Graves or Trist and fail terribly. I think I can do Ashe because I'm never tempted to try to jump in and get kills. Her kit continually reminds me that I'm supposed to just sit back and farm, poking when I get a free chance, and then chase down any good opportunities that present themselves - but don't force them.

With this in mind, what other AD carries should I look into trying/learning? Sivir, maybe? Kog, except he's VERY squishy and position reliant, and I'm not convinced I'm solid enough to not keep getting caught out.

[Psyborg]

Assassins can be mages.

Assassin is a role. Mage is a (very vague and flexible but includes Deathcap at some point) build path. AP Trist is both.

[Temotei]

Assassin is a role. Mage is a (very vague and flexible but includes Deathcap at some point) build path. AP Trist is both.

I don't see how this detracts from his point.

[TheAmishPirate]

(Huh. Would have sworn I posted this earlier.) Absolutely agree. Tribunal really should include the pre- and post- game chats. I always assumed there's some sort of technical limitation preventing this, since I can't think of any reason you wouldn't want them in the report.


Riot has said before they want this implemented, it's just some technical difficulty that's in the way. It's going to come sooner or later.


The servers that drive the PVP.net chat (which includes the pre and post game chats) are a completely different cluster of servers than the game servers. The game servers drive the in game chat.

The PVP.net servers were never built to store that much chat data for long, so it requires quite a bit of engineering to get that system built. Which we definitely are in favor of doing, it just takes time.

Thanks, it's good to hear this sort of thing is in the works. And for those times when I'm waiting to get back in queue, there's always some ARAM nonsense to hop into for a while.

Also, I'm a bit new here, apologies if this has already come up, but SweetRein, do you work at Riot?

[NineThePuma]

Also, I'm a bit new here, apologies if this has already come up, but SweetRein, do you work at Riot?

Yes, she does. I was pretty surprised when I heard too.

EDIT: Am I the only one who feels really awkward when the champs that you main are in the Free Rotation?

[MCerberus]

Free Kog'Maw week: the /j-ening

[PersonMan]

How do you jungle with Nunu? I'd guess a level in consume and bloodboil and then focus snowball, maybe two ranks in Consume? How about items? Philostone into tanky AP stuff? Can you build tanky on-hit to leverage the AS steroid?

I haven't done it for a couple of weeks, but I go QEW then focus E.

I go for an early KLP, then...build....um. I don't think I have a build, actually, I just kind of build tanky AP and stuff. I'll see if I can get a jungle Nunu game in today and see what items I buy.

[Math_Mage]

I haven't done it for a couple of weeks, but I go QEW then focus E.

I go for an early KLP, then...build....um. I don't think I have a build, actually, I just kind of build tanky AP and stuff. I'll see if I can get a jungle Nunu game in today and see what items I buy.

I've played 2000+ games and I had to look that acronym up. Just say Kage's, man. :smalltongue:

[TentacleGirl]

I've played 2000+ games and I had to look that acronym up. Just say Kage's, man. :smalltongue:

or just KG

[TechnOkami]

This, was a game I just recently played with Djinn, Mario, Lady Saker, and Noxxious.

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i408/TechnOkami/BADASSGAME.png

Just, agh, such a good game.... so good.

Oh, and Djinn's items before he outright bought Madred's Bloodrazor and Guardian Angel was a fully stacked Leviathan and Sword of the Occult. He got 16 kills before he finally died at the final fight, where we proceeded to push and win and Djinn pulled his item shenanigans.

Oh, and this was the 1st game Lady Saker has carried and won us the game. It was just asdjk good. Such a nice and fuzzy feeling after we had been playing for so long and finally won.

/all gg

[Psyborg]

I don't see how this detracts from his point.

It was an elaboration, rather than a correction. Far be it from me to correct Eld :smalleek:

[Temotei]

It was an elaboration, rather than a correction. Far be it from me to correct Eld :smalleek:

Ah. Interwebs fail to show tone of text like voices do. :smallsigh:

Carry on, then.

[LordShotGun]

Ah. Interwebs fail to show tone of text like voices do. :smallsigh:

Carry on, then.

Dang, this thread really like Eld. That's twice in this thread people have gotten up in arms over perceived slights.

[Laudandus]

Dang, this thread really like Eld. That's twice in this thread people have gotten up in arms over perceived slights.

He's... the third highest elo person of those who post in this thread?

And so he's viewed as an authority. He also seems to be a pretty cool dude, though I've only seen his posts and not ever played with him.

[Tesla_pasta]

Hey so I've been here for a while, but I don't seem to be on the list.

NA server as generictownsman
-tesla_pasta

I just hit 30, so once I complete my runepages, I'm going to try ranked.

other than the obvious (full pages, know at least 2-3 of each role) what should I expect going into ranked?

[Nadevoc]

Hey so I've been here for a while, but I don't seem to be on the list.

NA server as generictownsman
-tesla_pasta

I just hit 30, so once I complete my runepages, I'm going to try ranked.

other than the obvious (full pages, know at least 2-3 of each role) what should I expect going into ranked?

Added you.

Make sure to play at least a handful of solo queue normal drafts before trying ranked, in my opinion. It'll give you some idea of how the champ select will work out.

Also realize that the placement matches can be somewhat random because it'll be mostly people who don't have an Elo yet, meaning that TSM's smurfs and Worst Lol Player Ever aren't distinguishable to matchmaking.

[Laudandus]

Hey so I've been here for a while, but I don't seem to be on the list.

NA server as generictownsman
-tesla_pasta

I just hit 30, so once I complete my runepages, I'm going to try ranked.

other than the obvious (full pages, know at least 2-3 of each role) what should I expect going into ranked?

In ranked people care more about winning than in normals, which makes them rage more. For me, it's also much more fun to be competitive. If you don't enjoy hardcore competition, and don't care about bragging about your elo, I suggest you avoid ranked.

People will tell you horror stories about dropping to 900 elo when you start ranked and never getting out, but I wouldn't worry too much about that. You are where you are, and if you're having a hard time winning there's something you can learn.

Personally I don't think knowing 2-3 champions of each role will help you that much. You can go that route if you want, but the easiest way to high elo is to master one champion, ask for that champion every game, and play taric/soraka if you can't get your champion. In terms of gameplay, Ranked should be essentially the same as draft normals - you might want to play a couple of those if you haven't, just to get used to the draft picks/bans format.

The most important thing in ranked is to remember to have fun!

[Eldariel]

Dang, this thread really like Eld. That's twice in this thread people have gotten up in arms over perceived slights.

...and I don't really know how to react :smallredface: It's quite awkward indeed to read posts like this about yourself :smalltongue:


He's... the third highest elo person of those who post in this thread?

And so he's viewed as an authority. He also seems to be a pretty cool dude, though I've only seen his posts and not ever played with him.

A common complaint, that. Apparently I do need to play more on NA.


Hey so I've been here for a while, but I don't seem to be on the list.

NA server as generictownsman
-tesla_pasta

I just hit 30, so once I complete my runepages, I'm going to try ranked.

other than the obvious (full pages, know at least 2-3 of each role) what should I expect going into ranked?

If you've got above 50/50 wins and losses in normals, first ranked games will probably be fairly easy as you start again from 1200s. If you're around 50/50 you'll probably win about half your matches. If worse, you'll probably lose a bunch before you start getting even.

People generally tryhard more in Ranked, but people of the same level still play the same. That is, I find less players who don't seriously try to win in Ranked (though of course, trolls exist). On lower elo you'll have a hard time getting the team to go for map objectives, group up, etc. but on the flipside you can mostly wreck teams alone since the enemy team is just as disorganized.


You should have clear champions you're good at when playing ranked, and of course runepages. Try to communicate with the team in draft to pick the champs and roles you're the best at but beware that you'll sometimes have to play other roles so learn at least one (and if it's commonly banned, more than one) champ for all the big roles.

Oh and umm, 0 CS supporting isn't a real role until ~1400s-1500s. That is, it's gonna be comparatively more difficult to carry with that role when your AD carry is like as not to be a buffoon.

[Qwertystop]

Question about playing support Soraka. At whhat point does 1 decide that is that tje ad is doing terribly and you should just go mage?

Edit: I hate typing on this phone. Typos unintentional but will take for too long to fix. stupid voice recognition.

[Volatar]

Yeah. You own all of her skins, right? Or did you not get the reversal one?

Not rich enough for that sadly. I do own Prom Queen and Frostfire though.

[sonofzeal]

Not rich enough for that sadly. I do own Prom Queen and Frostfire though.
...you don't own Reverse Annie? But that's like the best skin in the whole game! With Gentleman Cho'Gath coming in a distant second, of course.

[NineThePuma]

Butterfly Kog'Maw.

That is all.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

After a couple of jungle Nunu games: It works. Oh boy does it ever work. :smallbiggrin: No runes, no masteries, boots+pots start, weak leash? Still clear everything without dipping below 50%.

Items seems to be a very flexible thing, going Kage's (thanks PersonMan for the tip!), tanky boots, Aegis, Abyssal, Frozen Heart in no particular order has worked well enough for me. Bugger if I know what to turn the Kage's into, or just sell it later though. Is DFG worth using even if you don't have much AP to fuel the active?

[Qwertystop]

My first try at AP trist:
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/726/92234521.png

[PersonMan]

Items seems to be a very flexible thing, going Kage's (thanks PersonMan for the tip!), tanky boots, Aegis, Abyssal, Frozen Heart in no particular order has worked well enough for me. Bugger if I know what to turn the Kage's into, or just sell it later though. Is DFG worth using even if you don't have much AP to fuel the active?

It varies, depending on the game. If you have a bunch of gold and want more AP, you can always get Derpcap. If the enemy has a lot of health, then DFG can be nice even without much AP, especially if they haven't built much MR.

@Qwerty: I haven't actually ever tried RoA on Tristana. I'm not sure if it's really worth it, as I don't have mana problems with her or find myself needing the HP, but I think you have a different playstyle (I gather this from your Skarner build), so it could be that.

Also, while he was free I built Mana Skarner. He fills up Tear so fast it's wonderful. I went something like Manamune/AA Staff/FH/B. Veil/Rageblade (which you can Q-spam to keep charged once you have tons of mana).

[sonofzeal]

Butterfly Kog'Maw.

That is all.
...point. I never knew about that one until today, but point. :P

Does that round out the top three though?

[Volatar]

...you don't own Reverse Annie? But that's like the best skin in the whole game! With Gentleman Cho'Gath coming in a distant second, of course.

I actually think Frostfire is better than Reverse Annie.

[Delusion]

...you don't own Reverse Annie? But that's like the best skin in the whole game! With Gentleman Cho'Gath coming in a distant second, of course.

Nunu Bot is disappointed with you.

[sonofzeal]

I actually think Frostfire is better than Reverse Annie.
I've heard Frostfire is one of the few skins in the game that improves a character's power, because it makes it harder to see when her stun is up. But Reverse Annie is... epic.

Tibbers: "IAMABYOOTIFULWIDDLEGURRL"

[lord_khaine]

Sorry, but the only skin that even comes close to the glory that is gentelman Chogath is Corporate Mundo, that Annie skin might make it to a distant 3rd.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I've heard Frostfire is one of the few skins in the game that improves a character's power, because it makes it harder to see when her stun is up.

This is a thing that is true and I hate.

[Tesla_pasta]

I dunno, geltleman Gragas is pretty boss. Pulsefire Ez also rocks.

I'm partial to mafia miss fortune and Christmas tree maokai

EDIT: if there was ever a tron sivir skin, yes. just yes.

[NineThePuma]

Pulsefire Ez also rocks.

Is not a skin. Is a "Theme" which is apparently different enough from a skin to warrant its own section in the shop.

[9mm]

I've heard Frostfire is one of the few skins in the game that improves a character's power, because it makes it harder to see when her stun is up.

this is false, if anything it's more obvious. you go from white on red to black on white, you know one of the most contrasting color schemes. yet I keep hearing this, making me think people don't pay attention to annie in general.

[ex cathedra]

Is not a skin. Is a "Theme" which is apparently different enough from a skin to warrant its own section in the shop.

Or maybe "Pulsefire Ezreal" is both the name of a theme and the skin that comes with the theme. :smallwink:

[Tesla_pasta]

Or maybe "Pulsefire Ezreal" is both the name of a theme and the skin that comes with the theme. :smallwink:

Woah. that was deep, man.

It's like... things... inside of other things...

dude.

[Eldariel]

Is not a skin. Is a "Theme" which is apparently different enough from a skin to warrant its own section in the shop.

It's Theme because you get a new Summoner Icon with it.

[TentacleGirl]

and profile banner

[Winthur]

Nunu is solid, and will allow you to start jungling long before your runes and mastery limitations otherwise would.

That's true. I'd also say that Alistar allows you to start jungling at early levels as well just because all you need to do is get some help at blue. Once you are level 2 you just smash people, then you get fed and become scarier than many bruisers if you get tons of gold. That's the way I started off my EUW account; now I have a 2:1 win ratio (not great but not that bad). I kept buying level 1 Armor runes as I progressed to ease the level 1 phase which is the hardest.

And if you can't do that then just go camp top lane, get level 2, do blue buff with W or E, and then gank. Not that efficient but it works in low level land.



It's Theme because you get a new Summoner Icon with it.


and profile banner

AND MY AXE

[Reinboom]

Also, I'm a bit new here, apologies if this has already come up, but SweetRein, do you work at Riot?

Yes, I'm a software engineer.

[Volatar]

I hope they start selling profile banners for all the champions and skins for like, 10-20 RP ea.

[AmberVael]

Point at which I knew my team would lose my latest match:

In the lobby, when one of our players had their character randomly selected, got Morgana, then asked "how do I play this game."

It was grueling and inevitably doomed.

[NineThePuma]

And apparently Akali likes to dress as her.

As an aside, just tried out Evelynn. She feels okay, but I think I need to toy around with my runes, get some good AP and figure out a solid build.

[Neoseanster]

My first try at AP trist:
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/726/92234521.png

Next time around, I'd recommend going for a more AP heavy build; even with tank items like this, when time fights roll around you won't be able to survive rocket jumping into the middle of it if you don't have burst enough to just instagib someone and then jump away again. Tristana has some of the highest AP ratios in the game, and Deathfire Grasp is very popular on her AP build for a reason. That aside, it appears that their major damage threats were Lux and Vladimir and Kennen, Vayne and Renekton were both quite down in gold... the CDR on Glacial Shroud is nice, but MR > armor vs that team.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

this is false, if anything it's more obvious. you go from white on red to black on white, you know one of the most contrasting color schemes. yet I keep hearing this, making me think people don't pay attention to annie in general.

Classic Annie has a blue-white (AKA whiter-than-white) indicator and a darkish burgundy dress. Frost Annie's dress, on the other hand, is light blue with white highlights and the stun indicator is a slightly green-tinted dark blue.

So yes. Frostfire Annie does contrast much less than Classic Annie. Moreso when her indicator easily blends into both the grass and water all over the Rift.

[ex cathedra]

Point at which I knew my team would lose my latest match:

In the lobby, when one of our players had their character randomly selected, got Morgana, then asked "how do I play this game."

It was grueling and inevitably doomed.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but in that player's defense, you don't actually need to know how this game works to play Morgana. :smalltongue:


As an aside, just tried out Evelynn. She feels okay, but I think I need to toy around with my runes, get some good AP and figure out a solid build.

AP Evelynn is, uhm, problematic. Her slow used to be a stun, and even then it was a risky proposition. A lot of people feel that you're better off not playing Evelynn building her with somewhat tanky AD items like Trinity Force or Phage + Wit's End.

A lot of new players probably aren't aware of this, but Evelynn was intentionally nerfed into unviability over a year ago while they attempted to remake her. However, and this is from an outsider's point of view, the stealth remake was a bit mismanaged and has since undergone at least two major designer changes (originally a project of Shurelia's, AFAIK, and then Xypherous, but I don't think he's involved anymore. I miss Xypherous. Why doesn't he post on the forums anymore? :smallfrown:). It's ostensibly still ongoing.

[TentacleGirl]

They took him away from his desk creating characters and hooked him up to a machine that samples wavelengths from his brain and uses those to synthesize a nutrient slurry that will keep other developers awake and nourished so they can design Xyph-influenced champs 24/7. The early onset of this project delayed the schedule as their bodies adjusted to their new diet, hence the 3-week releases. Some things that were leaked by someone who was rejected by the hivemind: no mana on anyone, 2 mobility spells per champ, two part ult, and of course, an auto attack modifier on every new champ.

[NineThePuma]

I know that Evelynn isn't supposed to be any good. That's why I grabbed her, really.

[fred dref]

Regarding skins, I'm quite partial to Iron Solari Leona and Tundra Hunter Warwick. Others are flashy, but I rather like the aesthetics of those two.

[JKTrickster]

Hi guys! Popping into this thread once again. I actually started 6 months ago but I play on and off. I asked a question on these threads before so this is really my second time around here. But anyway, I hope I can get to play with some of you soon!

My LoL name is ZenTrickster

So anyway I need a little help:

I'm thinking of playing around with Shen more, and trying to figure out a more useful build and rune setup for him.

Item build wise, I'm trying to figure out how important a "lane clearing" item is for Shen. Shen is a great split pusher, but it is hampered by his poor lane pushing skills - he actually doesn't clear huge minion waves that easily.

Traditionally I would use Sunfire Cape for this function but with the recent buff to Ionic Spark, which one is more "worth it"?

What swayed my opinion was this analysis (http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/vvinrar/20876-how-did-the-jayce-patch-affect-ionic-spark) - it seems...trustworthy but I don't actually understand the math. But I do get the idea - my only worry is that the math isn't correct for some reason.

If you guys have any other suggestions I would love to hear it :smallbiggrin:

Now onto runes for Shen, would it be better to run Magic Pen Marks or Attack Speed Marks? Theoretically Attack Speed is to proc his passive more often while Magic Pen Marks allow for better lane harassment early on.

I'm not quite sure about this one - is it more of a situational thing?

Anyway thanks and I hope I can play with some of you soon!

Just a bump cause I think people missed this. I have been a member of the board for a while but I really never was a part of the Giantitp LoL community. But after playing for so long, it would be cool to reliably get a solid team together for games :smallbiggrin:

[Darth Mario]

Just a bump cause I think people missed this. I have been a member of the board for a while but I really never was a part of the Giantitp LoL community. But after playing for so long, it would be cool to reliably get a solid team together for games :smallbiggrin:

Without actually running the numbers on this, Ionic Spark does seem like Shen's AS item of choice right now. Bonus damage from the health, plus the extra damage from the lightning in fights, means that he can split push all day in top or bot lane, port right into the middle of a fight with his ulti, and start getting multiple procs on his chain lightning. Wit's End might still be preferable just due to its sheer survivability, but you should absolutely try out the item and see how it functions for you.

[AmberVael]

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but in that player's defense, you don't actually need to know how this game works to play Morgana. :smalltongue:

I guess I've just been seeing really bad people play her then, because the last two Morganas I saw didn't even get many assists, let alone any kills. How exactly is she meant to work? Would it be worthwhile for me to spend a bot game or two figuring out her basic mechanics?

[MCerberus]

I guess I've just been seeing really bad people play her then, because the last two Morganas I saw didn't even get many assists, let alone any kills. How exactly is she meant to work? Would it be worthwhile for me to spend a bot game or two figuring out her basic mechanics?

It's always worth it to be familiar with a champion before bringing it into pvp.

[Winthur]

I guess I've just been seeing really bad people play her then, because the last two Morganas I saw didn't even get many assists, let alone any kills. How exactly is she meant to work? Would it be worthwhile for me to spend a bot game or two figuring out her basic mechanics?

Get 3 first points in W and just cast it on the caster minions for easy farm. Snipe people with Q and W when possible. When you have level 6, you can go for a kill with ult and Q. Shove lane with W while keeping wards to not get ganked. Use black shield to shrug off CC. Properly played, Morgana is pretty much untouchable in lane so all you do is farm and farm, then go into a teamfight, press R and win. However she herself doesn't kill much so in case you're versing an AP Carry like Veigar or Karthus that scales even better with AP than you, you might be unable to stop them from getting extremely farmed themselves. Basically Morg pick means peace treaty in mid lane under perfect circumstances.

[Darth Mario]

Morgana probably also has a different mindset than these players are used to.

People think she's an AP burst caster. She is. But she doesn't play like one. Rather, Morgana's mechanics and positioning are more akin to an initiating tank. She can wade directly into fights, firing off her ult and pinning the carry with her Q, but she's a frontliner most of the time. It's something that folks who usually play other AP mids often don't grasp quickly.

[Math_Mage]

My first try at AP trist:
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/726/92234521.png

Neoseanster already said it, but...DFG, Deathcap, Abyssal/Void (not necessarily in that order). If you play AP Tristana, it's one-shot people or bust.


They took him away from his desk creating characters and hooked him up to a machine that samples wavelengths from his brain and uses those to synthesize a nutrient slurry that will keep other developers awake and nourished so they can design Xyph-influenced champs 24/7. The early onset of this project delayed the schedule as their bodies adjusted to their new diet, hence the 3-week releases. Some things that were leaked by someone who was rejected by the hivemind: no mana on anyone, 2 mobility spells per champ, two part ult, and of course, an auto attack modifier on every new champ.

Tee hee. :smallbiggrin:


Just a bump cause I think people missed this. I have been a member of the board for a while but I really never was a part of the Giantitp LoL community. But after playing for so long, it would be cool to reliably get a solid team together for games :smallbiggrin:

Hop on Mumble anytime. And definitely buy Ionic Spark on Shen.


I guess I've just been seeing really bad people play her then, because the last two Morganas I saw didn't even get many assists, let alone any kills. How exactly is she meant to work? Would it be worthwhile for me to spend a bot game or two figuring out her basic mechanics?

Max W, freefarm things, rush Zhonya's, land random Bind-Puddle combos, press R and hit all the things.

[Temotei]

Dang, this thread really like Eld. That's twice in this thread people have gotten up in arms over perceived slights.

I just didn't understand his point. I dun really care about Eld's UNBREAKABLE DOMINION "authority" over me. :smalltongue:


I actually think Frostfire is better than Reverse Annie.

Agreed. Dat scarf.


Nunu Bot is disappointed with you.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

[PhoeKun]

Let's play everybody's favorite game: Guess the lanes! (Alternate working title - "Hey, Jayce is actually a pretty good...")

http://i.imgur.com/4a8JG.jpg

[ex cathedra]

Just a bump cause I think people missed this. I have been a member of the board for a while but I really never was a part of the Giantitp LoL community. But after playing for so long, it would be cool to reliably get a solid team together for games :smallbiggrin:

That blog's math is almost always correct, it's their interpretation of the math that I often find suspicious.

Wit's End is important in lane against champions like Vladimir, Kennen, and Rumble. Ionic Spark is primarily useful only because it significantly improves Shen's wave-clearing capabilities, thus enabling him to split push and abuse his ultimate much better than he ordinarily could.

Wit's End has a more valuable combination of stats, I still insist that it's the better item in general, and it's still super strong on Shen, but Ionic Spark has its situational place in Shen's build.


I guess I've just been seeing really bad people play her then, because the last two Morganas I saw didn't even get many assists, let alone any kills. How exactly is she meant to work? Would it be worthwhile for me to spend a bot game or two figuring out her basic mechanics?
Pretty much everyone is really bad from time to time. Morgana is considered easy because she only has one skill shot (her Q), and she can occasionally get free hits on it by casting it after her ultimate. Her pool is capable of killing entire waves of minions single-handedly, and her ultimate is just pretty strong. I think that she's a fun and rewarding champion, and she's definitely a solid choice for new players. It's worthwhile for you to find out if you enjoy playing her.

[9mm]

Classic Annie has a blue-white (AKA whiter-than-white) indicator and a darkish burgundy dress. Frost Annie's dress, on the other hand, is light blue with white highlights and the stun indicator is a slightly green-tinted dark blue.

So yes. Frostfire Annie does contrast much less than Classic Annie. Moreso when her indicator easily blends into both the grass and water all over the Rift.

... one of us has horribly set gamma settings if your colors are that different from mine.

[Math_Mage]

Let's play everybody's favorite game: Guess the lanes! (Alternate working title - "Hey, Jayce is actually a pretty good...")



Sion/Shaco bot, Singed top, Jayce mid. This one is fairly easy to intuit from CS (and the fact that it's a "guess the lane" game).

[PhoeKun]

Sion/Shaco bot, Singed top, Jayce mid. This one is fairly easy to intuit from CS (and the fact that it's a "guess the lane" game).

I suppose that's true, but it was really the enemy's lane choices that confuzzled me. :smalltongue:

Incidentally, I really really really like Jayce mid. I'm not super solid on his mechanics yet, but he does excellently with a blue buff and pushes his lane well enough to conceivably do the Mordekaiser routine and take every wraith camp ever. I haven't progressed beyond the "screwing around" stage, but everything I see about him tells me he has amazing scaling into the lategame and phenomenal kiting/fleeing potential. Proper use of his full kit can just about get you out of a five man gank under an enemy tower.

The only real problem is that, at least in this game, my jungler was... reluctant to hand over the Blue. The only reliable way I have to get the buff is to drop a giant hammer on whoever's wearing it on the enemy team.

[dgnslyr]

... one of us has horribly set gamma settings if your colors are that different from mine.

Maybe it's color-blind mode at work? I'm pretty sure some people here use it, even if they're not color blind.

[Volatar]

It's always worth it to be familiar with a champion before bringing it into pvp.

Yeah. I never, ever play a champion without having played them in a botgame first. This will teach you how to last hit with their animation, what their skills actually do, ranges, and other such things.

ARAM's with me are hilarious though, since while I own a lot of champions, I only play a small subset of them. "Oh no. How the heck do I play Sejuani? I don't even know if she is physical or magical." (Of course, I then went 9/10/53 but that's beside the point. :smallbiggrin:)

[Math_Mage]

I suppose that's true, but it was really the enemy's lane choices that confuzzled me. :smalltongue:

Only unconventional possibility I see is Renekton bot, and Blitz and Mord choose solo lanes to suit. Fits the CS, but doesn't seem to jibe with the KDAs.

[TentacleGirl]

Yeah. I never, ever play a champion without having played them in a botgame first. This will teach you how to last hit with their animation, what their skills actually do, ranges, and other such things.

ARAM's with me are hilarious though, since while I own a lot of champions, I only play a small subset of them. "Oh no. How the heck do I play Sejuani? I don't even know if she is physical or magical." (Of course, I then went 9/10/53 but that's beside the point. :smallbiggrin:)

Sejuani is actually real fun in ARAM. I heard you guys like AoEs and permaslows on everyone.

[TechnOkami]

Sejuani is actually real fun in ARAM. I heard you guys like AoEs and permaslows on everyone.

She's ridiculous in ARAM, so ridiculous, charge in, pop aoe, stun everyone as necessary. She's so good. :D

[TechnOkami]

Sejuani is actually real fun in ARAM. I heard you guys like AoEs and permaslows on everyone.

She's ridiculous in ARAM, so ridiculous, charge in, pop aoe, stun everyone as necessary. She's so good. :D

[Joran]

Yeah. I never, ever play a champion without having played them in a botgame first. This will teach you how to last hit with their animation, what their skills actually do, ranges, and other such things.

ARAM's with me are hilarious though, since while I own a lot of champions, I only play a small subset of them. "Oh no. How the heck do I play Sejuani? I don't even know if she is physical or magical." (Of course, I then went 9/10/53 but that's beside the point. :smallbiggrin:)

Yup. I own the 40 character pack and got randomed in Shaco, who I've never played before and never will again ;_;

[PhoeKun]

Only unconventional possibility I see is Renekton bot, and Blitz and Mord choose solo lanes to suit. Fits the CS, but doesn't seem to jibe with the KDAs.

What actually wound up happening was Renek/Blitz bottom, Morde top, and Ashe mid. I felt like I had been catapulted back into the hazy mists of two years ago.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

... one of us has horribly set gamma settings if your colors are that different from mine.

Huh. Hadn't though of that. It would explain the discrepancy.


Maybe it's color-blind mode at work? I'm pretty sure some people here use it, even if they're not color blind.

Don't use it, myself.

[Dire Ferret]

Update on the stealth rework. (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=26754549#post26754549)

[Mephit]

And apparently Akali likes to dress as her.

As an aside, just tried out Evelynn. She feels okay, but I think I need to toy around with my runes, get some good AP and figure out a solid build.

Don't get too used to her, because the stealth rework is near (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=26754549#post26754549). :smallsmile:

Edit: Akali'd.

[TechnOkami]

Well... I honestly don't care for Eve, and never have even when she was much more powerful.

Twitch however...

Good God he's going to be an unholy terror! AND IT'LL BE SO MUCH FUN. :demoniclaughter:

Although I do have a question: what is the PBE they're talking about?

[Eurus]

They took him away from his desk creating characters and hooked him up to a machine that samples wavelengths from his brain and uses those to synthesize a nutrient slurry that will keep other developers awake and nourished so they can design Xyph-influenced champs 24/7. The early onset of this project delayed the schedule as their bodies adjusted to their new diet, hence the 3-week releases. Some things that were leaked by someone who was rejected by the hivemind: no mana on anyone, 2 mobility spells per champ, two part ult, and of course, an auto attack modifier on every new champ.

...I would actually support this. :smallbiggrin:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Update on the stealth rework. (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=26754549#post26754549)

So...basically just awesome all around.

Also, you have no idea how delighted I am that, after over a year of telling people that Twitch's Stealth is really just a short-duration ambush tool...RIOT AGREES. :smallbiggrin:

[TentacleGirl]

Public Beta Environment. Patches go there first, and Riot tweaks things based on how it goes over there. For example, there were some Janna nerfs last week that didn't make it Live. Also new champions/skins/etc go there first, and people scan the PBE files to learn about new champs.

[Delusion]

So, ecpect to see both of those champs on every game for week or two afterthe patch. just because.

I hope Zyra is still coming in that patch though.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

So, ecpect to see both of those champs on every game for week or two afterthe patch. just because.

I hope Zyra is still coming in that patch though.

Damn straight. I know I'LL be playing Twitch like a maniac, and woe betide anyone who grabs him away from me. :smallbiggrin:

[NineThePuma]

Evelynn's pretty cool. I haven't completely flubbed her yet. It'll take a bit of getting used to, but one of my biggest complaints about her right now is that she's very very short range, AND she feels slow, moving around. All of these changes are quite nice.

[Nadevoc]

Just a bump cause I think people missed this. I have been a member of the board for a while but I really never was a part of the Giantitp LoL community. But after playing for so long, it would be cool to reliably get a solid team together for games :smallbiggrin:

Did you want to be added to the list in the first post? I decided I'm only going to add those who state their LoL name *and* server as requested in the initial post, so I skipped over yours. I know some people here don't really want their LoL name posted up there, plus I don't feel like hunting down or guessing which server people are on.

But as far as getting games, hop on Mumble. Though I haven't had a ton of luck finding people to play with on there, I know many other people do. Or you can add me in game (username is Xenik) and I'll play with ya.

[Chess435]

Ionic Spark. It's always been one of my favorite items, because the lightning is awesome. With the recent buff, is it actually worth getting as an AD carry item now? I want to combo it with twitch's ult for lightning everywhere!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Ionic Spark. It's always been one of my favorite items, because the lightning is awesome. With the recent buff, is it actually worth getting as an AD carry item now? I want to combo it with twitch's ult for lightning everywhere!

As an AD carry? No. It really doesn't give you anything you need in a way you can't get better elsewhere. It's not GREAT on tanky DPS though: on anyone who you would have gotten Wits End on, Ionic Spark is now a valid replacement. In fact, it gives you more damage when fighting against 2 or more foes.

[Eldariel]

I actually like Eve so this'll be interesting. Haven't played her all that much lately mostly because many of my teams try to lynch me if I do (jungle Janna goes through better than Evelynn); hopefully this'll be awesome. Also, better start rocking the Rat after; I've always liked him and I think he's like the best champion to smash solo queue with but never had the IP.

[NineThePuma]

Evelynn right now is really fun, but she doesn't have nearly enough range or speed. Her ult is pretty much mandatory to get anywhere, and I actually use it more for mobility than its combat effectiveness.

[Math_Mage]

Also, better start rocking the Rat after; I've always liked him and I think he's like the best champion to smash solo queue with but never had the IP didn't actually want to play him, just to like him from afar.

Fixed? :smalltongue: 1350 IP is no excuse.

[MCerberus]

Fixed? :smalltongue: 1350 IP is no excuse.

I haven't bought a new champion since level 20, stupid runes.

[Eldariel]

Fixed? :smalltongue: 1350 IP is no excuse.

He's 3150 :smalltongue: But yeah, I've prioritized runes lately. Like I said earlier, only like 26k to go! Well, I bought Draven 'cause he's too much fun which set me back another 6.3k

[Mephit]

Reporting live from level 8 on EUW: I drew first blood three times in a row with Blitzcrank by warding my lane bush, waiting for my opponents to walk up and sit at the very edge of the bush and pulling them in tower range.

[toasty]

He's... the third highest elo person of those who post in this thread?


Technically I think Efdf is the highest solo queue elo, he has 2100 last I checked. I dunno if Eld ever got that high.

They both got plat last season and are very good players though, so it doesn't really seem to matter.

[MCerberus]

Reporting live from level 8 on EUW: I drew first blood three times in a row with Blitzcrank by warding my lane bush, waiting for my opponents to walk up and sit at the very edge of the bush and pulling them in tower range.

Nice! Was your carry awake enough to at least get an assist on these?

[fred dref]

It's level 8, you're not always going to have a carry. Alternatively, there's a good chance they'll be mid lane.

[Laudandus]

Technically I think Efdf is the highest solo queue elo, he has 2100 last I checked. I dunno if Eld ever got that high.

They both got plat last season and are very good players though, so it doesn't really seem to matter.

Yeah, I think in terms of elo it's efdf > me > eld. Elo is a vague measure of skill at best, especially given how rarely Eld solo queues.

[NineThePuma]

You know, it just occurred to me, but...

How many players can be on one of Riot's "Teams"?

[Math_Mage]

Yeah, I think in terms of elo it's efdf > me > eld. Elo is a vague measure of skill at best, especially given how rarely Eld solo queues.

Not to mention Eld is on a completely different ladder anyway. And dominates this forum where TT and Dominion are concerned.

[Mephit]

Nice! Was your carry awake enough to at least get an assist on these?

What do you mean? :smallconfused:
I -am- the carry. :smalltongue:

Well, that's not really true, but I've taken my fair share of CS in one of those games because my Kog couldn't last hit properly.
But even he pretty much understood what I was going for with that ward.

[Qwertystop]

What would you think about a champ whose passive is that their autoattacks apply a stacking penalty to max health, equal to a percentage of damage dealt? It would go away from CC-removers, and gradually decrease at a rate of 2 HP per 5 seconds per 1 hp per 5 seconds of health regen.

Effectively, a different sort of anti-healing debuff - decreases total instead of per-heal.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Speaking of Dominion, can we talk about that? I feel like it's been way too long since I've soaked up some Eldaric wisdom on the Five Points.

[Laudandus]

Has anyone else been playing Jayce at all? I'm starting to believe that he's very overpowered. His E has ridiculous scaling, his accelerated Q has ridiculous scaling, he's melee, he's ranged, he doesn't seem counterable (though I haven't run into a Yorick or Malphite), and I've generally found he can bully everyone.

I've been building completely randomly, because I feel he's a strong bruiser and a strong carry (though I still always go top). Usually I like triforce, but I think he does well with bulk in hammer form and does well with damage in cannon form, so I feel like he can build anything.

Anyone else have opinions/experiences?

[toasty]

No one has played him, really, in my games. Which have bene... three? Since his release. :smalltongue:

[Lord Generic]

I've played him a little (by which I mean two games.) And Jayce is indeed crazy. Very versatile on builds and fluid, although his cannon feels... slow to me autoattacking. By which I mean he seems to turn around to last hit oddly slow.

That and his E is just absurd. Even when you build tanky, it easily drops over 600 points (before resistances) on someone with only 2000 hp.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Has anyone else been playing Jayce at all? I'm starting to believe that he's very overpowered. His E has ridiculous scaling, his accelerated Q has ridiculous scaling, he's melee, he's ranged, he doesn't seem counterable (though I haven't run into a Yorick or Malphite), and I've generally found he can bully everyone.

I've only encountered him a handful of times, and haven't had to lane against him, so I can't really say. From what little I've seen though, he does seem quite strong. Very mobile, good range, and his burst is nasty for guy that builds pretty tanky. And although I haven't seen any Jayces carrying games, he's a pretty complex champ, so I do expect him to go into OP territory as people get better at him.

[Volatar]

It's level 8, you're not always going to have a carry. Alternatively, there's a good chance they'll be mid lane.

I kinda miss having carries midlane before the meta solidified to it's current state. I have fond memories of picking Ashe or Cait, grabbing a null magic mantle, and facerolling the mage mid.

[TechnOkami]

I kinda miss having carries midlane before the meta solidified to it's current state. I have fond memories of picking Ashe or Cait, grabbing a null magic mantle, and facerolling the mage mid.

Why couldn't you do that still? I mean, I know how the meta is atm, but couldn't you still send a carry mid?

[TentacleGirl]

Why couldn't you do that still? I mean, I know how the meta is atm, but couldn't you still send a carry mid?

Sure, if you don't mind having an under leveled AP and an over leveled AD who doesn't need levels, with less CS than he'd have bot lane due to AP poke > AD poke.

[toasty]

Sure, if you don't mind having an under leveled AP and an over leveled AD who doesn't need levels, with less CS than he'd have bot lane due to AP poke > AD poke.

Kennen top. Double Bruiser bottom.

I really don't see why you can't have ADs middle... it can be done, no one feels like doing it.

[Laudandus]

I've played him a little (by which I mean two games.) And Jayce is indeed crazy. Very versatile on builds and fluid, although his cannon feels... slow to me autoattacking. By which I mean he seems to turn around to last hit oddly slow.

That and his E is just absurd. Even when you build tanky, it easily drops over 600 points (before resistances) on someone with only 2000 hp.

His auto animation is actually really good, with one exception: his auto animation becomes extremely bad for the one autoattack after turning into cannon form, the one that shreds magic resist and armor. The animation is so bad that I actually try to blow it on a minion, unless W is popped and the animation can be canceled into another auto.

Yeah, his E does 20% of max health and has both base and AD scaling in addition to that. It's a bit absurd.

[TentacleGirl]

Kennen top. Double Bruiser bottom.

I really don't see why you can't have ADs middle... it can be done, no one feels like doing it.

APs make better use of levels, AP is cheaper than AD, it's easier to hit with a Lux E/Ahri Q/Karth Q than an autoattack..... It could work, but there's a reason the majority of people send APs mid. If you had a strong solo AP (Vlad/Kennen especially) you could send AD and support mid, and maintain dragon control. Obviously that would work better for purple side.