Starscream [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Devonix

2012-07-08, 12:52 AM

JetThomasBoat

2012-07-08, 01:00 AM

The keeping him on his toes thing isn't unofficial he's outright stated it multiple times. It's sort of like the Rule of two in the Sith, having a power hungry and competent subordinate keeps you on your toes and makes sure that if you do eventually fail it is because someone has come along better than you at bringing the goals of the organization to fruition.

Starscream is a deadly warrior, genius scientist, competent commander and the best flier in the fleet.

Also Having Starscream trying to get your job means that he's there to keep an eye on anyone else trying to take you down. Starscream deals with them first because he doesn't want anyone else taking you down but him.

This. This exactly. Unless you're talking about movie Starscream, in which....I dunno, they needed to have a sniveling, brown-nosing dude who really wants Megatron's job, even though he's completely TERRIFIED of him, despite his own not insubstantial combat prowess and being like completely awesome at aerial combat, far more so than any of the autobots. You know, to be a character foil for all of the explosions.

Kyberwulf

2012-07-08, 01:17 AM

Devonix

2012-07-08, 01:23 AM

Starscream is a deadly warrior, genius scientist, competent commander and the best flier in the fleet.

Everytime he fights, he cause them to lose cause he messes up. Whenever he gets command his plans fail outright.

that's really more a joke that became what people thought was what was going on, than something that actually happened.

In bot cartoons and especially in comics, Starscreams plans usually end up being even more effective than Megatrons, Hell some of the b iggest team ups between Autobots and Decepticons happened because of Starscream getting too powerful

Such as the Underbase storyline and Starscreams Brigade for example.

Starscream's damn good at his job.

JetThomasBoat

2012-07-08, 02:40 AM

I miss reading all those old comics. I could never find that many, but sometimes I could find some of the G.I. Joe crossover ones.

SynissterSyster

2012-07-08, 02:45 AM

I remember in one show Starscream even made the combatacons. I forgot whom the combined into but it took out the contructacons. Another episode is when Megs was trying to drill to the Earth's core. Starscream told him it wasn't a bright idea and even showed Megs. Megs didn't listen and almost blew up the planet.

Worira

2012-07-08, 02:59 AM

basically megatron keeps him around because he's a giant robot that transforms into a jet and that's rad as hell

Also because "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

Prime32

2012-07-08, 08:22 AM

In some continuities Starscream is mentioned to be a brilliant scientist or warrior, and/or he doesn't want to betray Megatron until Megatron starts acting like a nut and endangering everyone.

GloatingSwine

2012-07-08, 04:25 PM

Starscream is a deadly warrior, genius scientist, competent commander and the best flier in the fleet.

Everytime he fights, he cause them to lose cause he messes up. Whenever he gets command his plans fail outright.

Well yes, but then in the old cartoon the laws of 1980s television ensured that the bad guys lost every week anyway, so that was nothing new.

kpenguin

2012-07-08, 04:39 PM

In some continuities Starscream is mentioned to be a brilliant scientist or warrior, and/or he doesn't want to betray Megatron until Megatron starts acting like a nut and endangering everyone.

And in others he couldn't lead a parade. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo7-02kedBY)

Aotrs Commander

2012-07-08, 04:56 PM

Because even Megatron secretly knows, deep in his spark chamber, that Starscream has always been the most Awesome Decepticon.

Pretty much the same reason why Prime has Grimlock.

Also this:
http://images.wikia.com/transformers/images/0/00/Megatrong2idiot.jpg

NerfTW

2012-07-08, 05:39 PM

Okay, I don't know why he does, but Megatron keeps him around. Is there any reason he Has too? I am not sure if it's just for plot.. or if Starscream is like.. some high dude in the Society.

Because you're discussing a children's TV show designed solely to sell action figures. He was kept around because he was one of the characters.

I hate the "Because he just does" explanation, but in this case, that's it. Transformers wasn't exactly a deep and well thought out TV show. Neither was GI Joe, Thundercats, or He-man. The plot lines were dictated entirely by what action figures were going out on the shelves that quarter, and nothing else.

Traab

2012-07-08, 05:41 PM

And in others he couldn't lead a parade. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo7-02kedBY)

Megatron was also a total fricking moron in that clip. You would think that after the 4th time they killed starscream and he came back he would consider this an unusual thing that needs to be studied? Nope! Just keep hurling him off the cliff.

Tiki Snakes

2012-07-08, 06:49 PM

DigoDragon

2012-07-09, 08:17 AM

Is there any reason he Has too?

In at least one of the more recent versions, Starscream seems to leave the Decepticons and becomes a rogue agent for himself. Not sure how long that lasts or how effective he is then.

DiscipleofBob

2012-07-09, 08:33 AM

Just a guess here, it could be that Megatron recognizes the good need for a Central Negative role on the team.

For those that don't know what that means, Central Negative is a type of leadership focused on questioning the actual leader. He's the guy who wonders if the boss's plan really is foolproof and isn't afraid to point out the weaknesses or inconsistencies. Also might be called the Lancer to those who speak trope.

Besides, if Megatron could survive one or more of Starscream's "sudden inevitable betrayals," maybe he kept him around so he could keep making an example of him to the others. Best he only has to keep an eye out on one of his subordinates than all of them.

Just my guess.

Traab

2012-07-09, 08:44 AM

This (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20110815) comic probably covers megatrons best reasoning, though the whole, "constantly questions his plans" role may also play a part. Lackeys and lick spittles are nice and all, but they make it hard to tell if your plan is really good or insanely crappy because they will worship it either way.

Lost Demiurge

2012-07-12, 01:39 PM

Megatron keeps Starscream around for two reasons. 1. Because the guy is useful. 2. Because he's predictable.

Sure, he occasionally tries to kill you, but as long as you're on your toes you can see it coming.

And, unlike some others of the team, he's pretty damn useful.

And by the Decepticon philosophy, if you ever get weak enough that he DOES manage to kill you, you had it coming. The weak die, the strong rule. End of sentence.

Megaduck

2012-07-12, 02:58 PM

Also Having Starscream trying to get your job means that he's there to keep an eye on anyone else trying to take you down. Starscream deals with them first because he doesn't want anyone else taking you down but him.

This.

As long as Starscream is around no other decepticon will attempt to kill Megatron. There is no point, Starscream will just shout that he is the leader now and take over. So anyone that wants Megatron's job will have to kill Starscream first and that gives Megatron a warning.

KillianHawkeye

2012-07-12, 03:44 PM

Another thing is that Megatron knows he needs to have Starscream around to keep him in line.

There was one time on the original show where everybody thought Megatron was dead so Starscream set up a bomb powerful enough to destroy the Earth, went back to Cybertron, and took over command from Shockwave just to collect the energy that would be created from the Earth's destruction. Megatron and Optimus had to team up to stop his plan.

EDIT:

In at least one of the more recent versions, Starscream seems to leave the Decepticons and becomes a rogue agent for himself. Not sure how long that lasts or how effective he is then.

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but in Transformers: Cybertron, Starscream goes rogue and becomes the leader of all the imprisoned decepticons that were being kept in a vault at the north pole and uses them to try to take over the Earth. He absorbs a bunch of Primus' energy and becomes super-powerful, even trying to go up against Primus himself (with predictable results). His final showdown against Galvatron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyozUi5fs8M) on the Giant Planet was pretty awesome and a good showcase of their differing philosophies.

That was one of my favorite versions of Transformers strictly because Starscream and Megatron/Galvatron were so awesome (and competent). Also, Scourge! :smallbiggrin:

Reverent-One

2012-07-12, 07:43 PM

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but in Transformers: Cybertron, Starscream goes rogue and becomes the leader of all the imprisoned decepticons that were being kept in a vault at the north pole and uses them to try to take over the Earth. He absorbs a bunch of Primus' energy and becomes super-powerful, even trying to go up against Primus himself (with predictable results). His final showdown against Galvatron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyozUi5fs8M) on the Giant Planet was pretty awesome and a good showcase of their differing philosophies.

Huh, on the one hand, I'm glad Cybertron undid the "Starscream is just a minion" reset from Energon. On the other, it's still not the Starscream from Armada, who I thought was an interesting different take on the character.

That said...Oh that crown. :smallbiggrin:

Scowling Dragon

2012-07-12, 07:49 PM

It's sort of like the Rule of two in the Sith, having a power hungry and competent subordinate keeps you on your toes and makes sure that if you do eventually fail it is because someone has come along better than you at bringing the goals of the organization to fruition.

WOW. Now that I have heard the reason for this logic it sounds even DUMBER now.

Reverent-One

2012-07-12, 08:03 PM

WOW. Now that I have heard the reason for this logic it sounds even DUMBER now.

Eh, Megatron knows there's no chance of Starscream actually beating him. Might as well make use of an above average minion.

Scowling Dragon

2012-07-12, 08:19 PM

Eh, Megatron knows there's no chance of Starscream actually beating him. Might as well make use of an above average minion.

Now That makes more sense. Slightly.

Gamer Girl

2012-07-12, 08:51 PM

I would have thought the reason Megatron kept Starscream around was very simple:Arrogance. Meg's knew full well all about Starscream's plan to take over one day....and could simply care less. To Meg's it was just a joke: "sure Starscream you will take over one day, haha''.

Prime32

2012-07-12, 08:54 PM

Huh, on the one hand, I'm glad Cybertron undid the "Starscream is just a minion" reset from Energon. On the other, it's still not the Starscream from Armada, who I thought was an interesting different take on the character.

That said...Oh that crown. :smallbiggrin:The Japanese version took it further, with Megatron admitting that Starscream had impressed him at the end of that scene. Plus his voice made him sound more in-control than his usual screechy one.

Also, it must be repeated that he fights Primus. It doesn't matter that he didn't win, he was able to put up a fight against the freaking creator-god-planet of the Transformers universe.

Cybertron/Galaxy Force Starscream = most competent Starscream by far.

Reverent-One

2012-07-12, 09:01 PM

Cybertron/Galaxy Force Starscream = most competent Starscream by far.

Shame he had to be stuck in Cybertron then.

Cheesegear

2012-07-12, 09:15 PM

Also, it must be repeated that he fights Primus. It doesn't matter that he didn't win, he was able to put up a fight against the freaking creator-god-planet of the Transformers universe.

Armada Starscream takes a shot at Unicron. It doesn't go well. :smallamused:

But, yeah. Starscream's competency varies from continuity to continuity, and sometimes even episode to episode. Personally, I think Starscream is just as important to any TF Franchise as Megatron or Optimus, and it's kind of a shame that the Autobots don't have an Anti-Starscream, mostly because 'Always do what Optimus says' is what all the Autobots do.

Callos_DeTerran

2012-07-12, 10:14 PM

Armada Starscream takes a shot at Unicron. It doesn't go well. :smallamused:

No, but it is bad-a**. :smallamused:

Devonix

2012-07-12, 10:26 PM

Armada Starscream takes a shot at Unicron. It doesn't go well. :smallamused:

But, yeah. Starscream's competency varies from continuity to continuity, and sometimes even episode to episode. Personally, I think Starscream is just as important to any TF Franchise as Megatron or Optimus, and it's kind of a shame that the Autobots don't have an Anti-Starscream, mostly because 'Always do what Optimus says' is what all the Autobots do.

In most continuities Grimlock is the anti-Starscream with his always trying to take over leadership. and not having problems with Optimus.

Aotrs Commander

2012-07-13, 05:10 AM

In most continuities Grimlock is the anti-Starscream with his always trying to take over leadership. and not having problems with Optimus.

In Best Continuity (which is my opinion, always will be the UK Gen 1 Marvel Comics1) Grimlock was very much this, even literally coming to blows with Prime on occasion (though they ended up having a laugh about it eventually).

Starscream was also really quite competant in that continuity (at one point, Autobots RAN AWAY from him in fear!)

Both characters are favourites of Simon Furman (the major writer of... well, most Transformers comics!) Coincidence?

(Both of favourites of mine too, for that matter...)

1You have no idea how hyped-up I am for Regeneration One.

The Succubus

2012-07-13, 05:15 AM

Megatron was also a total fricking moron in that clip. You would think that after the 4th time they killed starscream and he came back he would consider this an unusual thing that needs to be studied? Nope! Just keep hurling him off the cliff.

Megatron finds Starscream useful but that's not the same as liking him. Hell, if I knew that people I disliked would magically regenerate after I shoved them off a cliff, I'd be on my way to Dover right now.

Devonix

2012-07-13, 05:29 AM

In Best Continuity (which is my opinion, always will be the UK Gen 1 Marvel Comics1) Grimlock was very much this, even literally coming to blows with Prime on occasion (though they ended up having a laugh about it eventually).

Starscream was also really quite competant in that continuity (at one point, Autobots RAN AWAY from him in fear!)

Both characters are favourites of Simon Furman (the major writer of... well, most Transformers comics!) Coincidence?

(Both of favourites of mine too, for that matter...)

1You have no idea how hyped-up I am for Regeneration One.

Yep and the first t ime Prime died Grimlock took over

Second time he died Prime put him i charge again

Prime32

2012-07-13, 07:15 PM

Personally, I think Starscream is just as important to any TF Franchise as Megatron or Optimus, and it's kind of a shame that the Autobots don't have an Anti-Starscream, mostly because 'Always do what Optimus says' is what all the Autobots do.Sentinel Prime from Transformers Animated is probably the closest thing to an Anti-Starscream.

But yeah, the personalities in the original series amounted to

Autobots: Generically heroic
Optimus Prime: Generically extra-heroic
Grimlock: Dumb
Decepticons: Generically villainous
Megatron: Generically extra-villainous
Starscream: Backstabbing Megatron
Soundwave: Logic McCoolvoice

Traab

2012-07-13, 07:26 PM

Megatron finds Starscream useful but that's not the same as liking him. Hell, if I knew that people I disliked would magically regenerate after I shoved them off a cliff, I'd be on my way to Dover right now.

I would experiment on him to find out WHY he keeps coming back to life, to see if I can get the same thing to myself. Imagine it, if your troops and you were immortal, you could kamikaze wave your opponents just to take out a single target, then come back and repeat it on the next target.

Devonix

2012-07-13, 07:48 PM

Sentinel Prime from Transformers Animated is probably the closest thing to an Anti-Starscream.

But yeah, the personalities in the original series amounted to

Autobots: Generically heroic
Optimus Prime: Generically extra-heroic
Grimlock: Dumb
Decepticons: Generically villainous
Megatron: Generically extra-villainous
Starscream: Backstabbing Megatron
Soundwave: Logic McCoolvoice

Hey now, you're selling the characterization short. The Autobots had plenty of, selfish, adventurous, bigoted, neurotic, dreamers, ect. in the G1 cartoon and even more in the comics since they had more time for fleshing them out.

MLai

2012-07-15, 08:54 AM

Has one voice actor been Starscream for all Transformers reiterations? Or do they just use a synthesizer to alter somebody's voice that screechy way so that he always sounds the same?

GloatingSwine

2012-07-15, 09:01 AM

Eh, Megatron knows there's no chance of Starscream actually beating him. Might as well make use of an above average minion.

To be fair, Animated!Starscream got closer than usual, having blown up Megatron in the first episode, leaving him a disembodied head for the whole first season.

Prime32

2012-07-15, 09:40 AM

Has one voice actor been Starscream for all Transformers reiterations? Or do they just use a synthesizer to alter somebody's voice that screechy way so that he always sounds the same?...you don't need a synthesiser to sound screechy. :smalltongue:

Reverent-One

2012-07-15, 02:24 PM

To be fair, Animated!Starscream got closer than usual, having blown up Megatron in the first episode, leaving him a disembodied head for the whole first season.

Well yeah, and in that one, Megatron doesn't play around. He wants Starscream dead basically as soon as he's back in action. I assume the question about why Megs keeps Starcream around refers to timeline where Megatron doesn't just try to have him killed, like G1.