Rogue Build?

[rmaunus]

I was looking at the Rogue Handbook, and I wondered if for a level 10 build, I could go Rogue 5/Swashbuckler 4/ Avenger 1?

I want to be a TWF rogue and I also want to be able to use wands and stuff. I don't want to take Wizard/Beguiler dips.

[rmaunus]

I also read about wandslots for weapons, what kind of fun/shenanigans can I get into with that?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Are you using fractional BAB?

Edit: oh, and what sources are you allowed? I'm really thinking about Ghola's Feral Dreadlord here.

[eggs]

The biggest and least-mentioned advantage to wand chambers is their easy free action drawing (not normally possible with wands), which allows a swift buff weapon to be drawn, the spell to be cast and the Rogue to still have time to full attack.

The chambered wands I use most are Golem/Grave/Vinestrike (even with Penetrating strike, these allow ranged SAs and full damage for a low price), Critical Strike (Complete Mage version inexpensively ignores concealment, which is one of the big Rogue off-switches), Critical Strike (SpC version is nice inexpensive bonus damage for a sneak attacker; the Complete Mage version might invalidate it), Sniper's Shot (don't get sucked into charge range to apply SA) and Wraithstrike (not cheap at level 10, but it basically means not missing).

And for other miscellaneous wands, I get a lot of use from Seeking Ray (basically doesn't ever miss) and Ray of Stupidity (trivializes animal and quite a few magical beast encounters). But I don't think either would be worth it at level 10, unless you have a way of crafting them.

And Assassin/Avenger is awesome. I'd definitely stack more levels of that instead of swashbuckler, especially if Avenger benefits from the Assassin's splatbook expansions.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Rogue 4 / Swashbuckler 3 / Avenger 3 seems strictly better than Rg 5/Sw 4 / Av1, especially with fractional BAB. Rogue 5 and Swashbuckler 4 are both dead levels.

Wraithstrike and Grease could also be good wands.

[rmaunus]

The biggest and least-mentioned advantage to wand chambers is their easy free action drawing (not normally possible with wands), which allows a swift buff weapon to be drawn, the spell to be cast and the Rogue to still have time to full attack.

The chambered wands I use most are Golem/Grave/Vinestrike (even with Penetrating strike, these allow ranged SAs and full damage for a low price), Critical Strike (Complete Mage version inexpensively ignores concealment, which is one of the big Rogue off-switches), Critical Strike (SpC version is nice inexpensive bonus damage for a sneak attacker; the Complete Mage version might invalidate it), Sniper's Shot (don't get sucked into charge range to apply SA) and Wraithstrike (not cheap at level 10, but it basically means not missing).

And for other miscellaneous wands, I get a lot of use from Seeking Ray (basically doesn't ever miss) and Ray of Stupidity (trivializes animal and quite a few magical beast encounters). But I don't think either would be worth it at level 10, unless you have a way of crafting them.

And Assassin/Avenger is awesome. I'd definitely stack more levels of that instead of swashbuckler, especially if Avenger benefits from the Assassin's splatbook expansions.
What are the splatbook expansions?

And when you say ranged SA, does that mean the wand has a ranged affect?

[rmaunus]

Are you using fractional BAB?

Edit: oh, and what sources are you allowed? I'm really thinking about Ghola's Feral Dreadlord here.

All of 3.5. What's fractional BAB?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Sniper's Shot will allow you to make ranged sneaks attack outside the 30ft limit that round. So you aren't at as much risk of being 1-rounded by the charger you just shot.

Fractional BAB is a variant system in Unearthed Arcana. Low BAB classes get .5 BAB per level, medium classes get .75 and high get 1. Always rounded down. This reduces the BAB penalties for multiclassing with non-high BAB classes, like Rogue and Avenger. For instance, a Monk 1/Rogue 1/Bard 1/Cleric 1/Psychic Warrior 1 is a level 5 character with a BAB of +0. Using Fractional BAB rules, that character has a BAB of +4, identical to that of a level 5 Monk, Rogue, Bard, Cleric or Psychic Warrior.

It's an awesome rule and there's almost no reason not to use it.

If all of 3.5 is available, one of the best Sneak Attack characters you can build is Tleilaxu_Ghola's Feral Dreadlord, found here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871422/Feral_Dreadlord:_SA,_TWF,_9th_Level_Maneuvers,_SAD _in_one_package). Especially awesome is the fact that its main trick is accessible by level 9.

The downside is that it lacks much Rogue-ish flavor, or Swashbuckler flavor, and isn't really set up to be a pure skill monkey - though you can sorta do this if your Intelligence is good.

[rmaunus]

Sniper's Shot will allow you to make ranged sneaks attack outside the 30ft limit that round. So you aren't at as much risk of being 1-rounded by the charger you just shot.

Fractional BAB is a variant system in Unearthed Arcana. Low BAB classes get .5 BAB per level, medium classes get .75 and high get 1. Always rounded down. This reduces the BAB penalties for multiclassing with non-high BAB classes, like Rogue and Avenger. For instance, a Monk 1/Rogue 1/Bard 1/Cleric 1/Psychic Warrior 1 is a level 5 character with a BAB of +0. Using Fractional BAB rules, that character has a BAB of +4, identical to that of a level 5 Monk, Rogue, Bard, Cleric or Psychic Warrior.

It's an awesome rule and there's almost no reason not to use it.

Oh I'll have to check it out. And I'm going to be TWF mainly. I might have a hand crossbow or something for ranged attacks.

Edit: What should the full build look like if I'm going to use those three classes mainly?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

As for the full build, it depends (as always!). What's your main focus? Do you want to be most effective in or out of combat? Are you filling a scouting, skills or social role in your party?

[rmaunus]

As for the full build, it depends (as always!). What's your main focus? Do you want to be most effective in or out of combat? Are you filling a scouting, skills or social role in your party?

I'll probably be skills/social and secondary melee. I'm going to be a Strongheart Halfling, if that helps at all.

[eggs]

What are the splatbook expansions?
Oh, sorry. The Assassin gets more support from secondary sources than most prestige classes. I think the non-PHB spells that would be most useful for a TWFer are:

Critical Strike (CMage version)
Near Horizon (CMage) and Sniper's Shot (SpC) to sneak attack from a good range away
Fire Shuriken (SpC) for magical DR-ignoring ammunition you can stockpile in your offdays
Assassin's Darkness (CScoundrel) for a wide area of no-save blindness and total concealment (neither affecting the caster).


And there are various utility spells scattered around.

And when you say ranged SA, does that mean the wand has a ranged affect?
Golemstrike, Vinestrike and Gravestrike don't have ranged effects of their own, but they do affect all attacks that a Rogue makes for a round, which can include its ranged attacks. And that's useful because the Rogue's and abilities don't make it a fantastic survivor in close quarters.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I'll probably be skills/social and secondary melee. I'm going to be a Strongheart Halfling, if that helps at all.

So you're probably going to want something like Dex>Con=Int>Cha>Wis>Str.

Rog 4/Swb 3/Avenger 3 seems like a decent start, assuming you want those three classes primarily, and I'd end at Rog 4/Swb 7/Avenger 9. You probably will need quite a number of feats, as you'll want to pick up Shadow Blade and Assassin's Stance from ToB. Since you're going to have poison use, there's no reason not to use Psionic Minor Creation to make yourself buckets of whatever poisons you want. Daring Outlaw will be a necessity, as will Craven. Staggering Strike is extremely useful, since you probably won't end up being durable enough to withstand full attacks from well-built enemies. If you intend to use HiPS from Avenger, then you'll need Darkstalker. If you can get Blind-Fight/Mage Slayer/Pierce Magical Protection you should, but that's a lot of feats.

Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape is something you probably want, replacing Trap Sense.

The skill tricks Acrobatic Backstab, clarity of Vision and Social Recovery are all good.

Make sure your DM allows you to use the Assassin spells from various sources with the Avenger. There are a bunch of good ones, especially in the Spell Compendium.