Does a spell like this exist

[Eliana Solange]

One thing that seems to be missing in D&D core is a "get the heck away from the caster spell".

Something like "any foe within a 20-foot burst radius of the caster is blasted back to the nearest space outside that range". A higher level version might make them also be knocked down or stunned or something. Anyhow, thinking of researching something like this as a new spell and if it already exists somewhere, we could either import it into our (limited sources) game or at least use that as a guide to appropriate power level.

Thanks!

[ThiagoMartell]

Defenestrating Sphere?

[Diarmuid]

Forcewave, 4th level Spell Compendium is similar to what you're describing. I thought I had seen another similar one, but that's the first one that I came across.

[Palanan]

Magic of Faerûn has an earlier version of Forcewave, which is a 1st-level wizard spell with the potential to bull rush your target. It might be useful against low-CR opponents, but otherwise probably won't get you very far. (Or rather, won't get your target very far.)

[Tyndmyr]

I recommend the metamagic Explosive Spell, which does this on regular ol' spells like fireball.

Slap on Heart of Fire for 30 fire resist at relatively low levels, then cast fireballs centered on yourself.

For added fun, look into Enlarge Spell.

[Diarmuid]

Explosive spell on Fireball is using a 5th level spell slot so not really sure 9th counts as "relatively low level".

[Eliana Solange]

I was thinking of Explosive Spell anyhow for my level 5 Wizard bonus feat, but was not thinking of it in these terms.

Where is Heart of Fire from?

[Eliana Solange]

Also, with an explosive fireball, even if I were immune to the fire damage, wouldn't I be subject to the explosive effect as well and need to make a reflex save or also get blown out of the burst area?

[Unusual Muse]

Spectral Stag (MoF p. 120), a 2nd level Cleric spell, bull rushes and stuns the target... plus, you can ride it, effectively flying.

[Eliana Solange]

Forcewave, 4th level Spell Compendium is similar to what you're describing.

Forcewave sounds perfect, especially since it is a swift action and thus does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The perfect remedy for a surrounded caster ;-)

[Andorax]

Explosive applies to any ref-save AOE you have available. As a 3rd level option, you can Explosive Burning Hands a cone away from you.

Hmm...Explosive, Sub-Electricity, and Three Thunders?

[Tyndmyr]

I was thinking of Explosive Spell anyhow for my level 5 Wizard bonus feat, but was not thinking of it in these terms.

Where is Heart of Fire from?

Complete Mage. Also, the Explosive Spell aspect only takes effect if you take damage from the spell. This is possible, even with FR 30, but not especially likely.

Also, for those worried about the modified spell level, there are mitigation options for that.

[Eliana Solange]

the Explosive Spell aspect only takes effect if you take damage from the spell

I don't see that anywhere in the description of Explosive Spell. It just says "on a failed reflex save...." with nothing about taking damage:


On a failed Reflex save, an explosive spell ejects any creature caught in its area, sending it to a location outside the nearest edge of that area,
dealing additional damage and further knocking creatures prone.

The rest of the description goes on to give an example, clarify additional damage done, etc. but again does not specify that it only applies if the subject took damage from the original spell, and that doesn't seem obvious or logical to me -- the force effect seems orthogonal to the original (in this case fire) effect.


Also, for those worried about the modified spell level, there are mitigation options for that.

such as...?

[Diarmuid]

Incantatrix, metamagic school focus, arcane thesis, MM rods, etc.

[Namfuak]

Wu Jen get the 1st level spell Elemental Burst, one effect of which can be using water to knock everybody in a 10 foot radius prone. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that you are composed of water for the spell.

[Tyndmyr]

I don't see that anywhere in the description of Explosive Spell. It just says "on a failed reflex save...." with nothing about taking damage:



The rest of the description goes on to give an example, clarify additional damage done, etc. but again does not specify that it only applies if the subject took damage from the original spell, and that doesn't seem obvious or logical to me -- the force effect seems orthogonal to the original (in this case fire) effect.

IIRC, the spell had to be a damaging spell, yes? No explosive grease. This interpretation is supported by the repeated use of "additional damage".

However, if you choose to use the interpretation that it does apply to you, a good reflex save goes a long way towards mitigating this, and spell placement can also sometimes avoid it.

[Khedrac]

As stated above Fire Resist 30 gives you a good chance of avoiding damage from a fireball. However Heart of fire is a 5th level spell that gives Fire Resist 20 not 30 so not only would be be running out of 5th level slots, but 9D6 averages to 31.5 or 15 on a made save, and most wizards that push their saves have trouble making them themselves - at which point this is not a good tactic.

Note the Spells by level tables say FR10 which is wrong as text trumps table and the spell description says 20.

[Tyndmyr]

As stated above Fire Resist 30 gives you a good chance of avoiding damage from a fireball. However Heart of fire is a 5th level spell that gives Fire Resist 20 not 30 so not only would be be running out of 5th level slots, but 9D6 averages to 31.5 or 15 on a made save, and most wizards that push their saves have trouble making them themselves - at which point this is not a good tactic.

Note the Spells by level tables say FR10 which is wrong as text trumps table and the spell description says 20.

My apologies, FR 20. Still, this should reliably negate damage entirely on a successful save, even at CL 10. On an unsuccessful save...it'll sting a bit, but not nearly so much as for the others.

[Eliana Solange]

IIRC, the spell had to be a damaging spell, yes?

It has to allow a reflex save. But damage is not explicitly mentioned other than the reference to it doing "additional" damage. Grease might not work because it doesn't affect one of the standard areas?


Explosive Spell can be applied only to spells that allow
Reflex saves and affect an area (a cone, cylinder, line, or burst).

[Adam...?]

The Spell Compendium also has Rejection, which targets a 60 ft. cone and forces a fortitude save to avoid being pushed back 5 ft. per caster level. However, as a sixth level spell, it's pretty underwhelming. No effect on a successful save, no knocking people prone, SR yes. Really, besides moving people, the only other things it has going for it is it can do is some minor damage if you smash someone into a wall, it can work equally well on big monsters with big bonuses to bull rush rolls. Although really, those guys tend to have beefy fortitude saves anyways, so it's kinda a moot point, I guess.

[Kazyan]

Not quite what you want, but Repelling Shield knocks enemies back after attacking you if they fail the Reflex save. In other words, "Stop that; I have d4s!"

[Tyndmyr]

It has to allow a reflex save. But damage is not explicitly mentioned other than the reference to it doing "additional" damage. Grease might not work because it doesn't affect one of the standard areas?

Yeah, that one's also fuzzy...I mean, grease definitely affects an area, but the list afterward implies that it's only those.

I suppose you could use both shape spell and explosive spell on the same spell, so long as you applied shape later. That's your clearest path to getting exploding ten foot squares, if that's what you want.

[Ernir]

Explosive Fireburst and Explosive Greater Fireburst (both from Spell Compendium) could fit very well if the area weren't so damn small. =/

[Keneth]

Like it's not enough that you can be indestructible and unhittable, you want to be unapproachable as well? :smallbiggrin:

Not really that related but I remember using Repelling Doom on a warlock and it was pretty fun. Plus, it's selective, so I never hit any of my allies with it.

[Eliana Solange]

Like it's not enough that you can be indestructible and unhittable, you want to be unapproachable as well? :smallbiggrin:

At least until I can get up to indestructible and unhittable and have more than a handful of hit points :smallwink:

Repelling Shield sounds good too.

[Eliana Solange]

Thanks for all the replies!

[Lanaya]

Also, with an explosive fireball, even if I were immune to the fire damage, wouldn't I be subject to the explosive effect as well and need to make a reflex save or also get blown out of the burst area?

Even better. Drop the explosive fireball right between you and whoever's trying to kill you so you go flying one direction and they go flying in the other.

[Scarlet-Devil]

How has nobody mentioned Repulsion? Is the purpose of the spell not to keep enemies like 60 ft away from the caster?

Edit: Nevermind, doesn't work quite like I thought it did, although with a starting range of 130 ft (10 ft per level) it's still very useful.

[Rejakor]

Explosive Fireburst. Explicitly does not affect you. Widen for extra fun. 4th level spell slot, less with metamagic cost reducers. Also does 1d8/CL. Greater Fireburst hits a bigger area, and does d10's.

[Andorax]

Energy Sub: Electricity
Born of Three Thunders
Explosive Spell.


Apply this to any spell that:

1) Has an area of effect, and.
2) Deals any amount of energy damage.


Energy Substitution: Electricity lets you change the energy damage of the spell to Electricity.

Born of Three Thunders allows you to cause that spell to force a fort save or be stunned for one round AND a reflex save or be knocked prone.

Explosive Spell triggers when you fail a reflex save in an AoE spell (note: being damaged is NOT required). Everyone who fails either the initial reflex save (if applicable) OR the knocked prone extra reflex save for BoTT will be hit with the explosive effect and thrown out of the area of effect (as well as possibly being damaged, stunned, or knocked prone).

Cost: 3 feats, 2 level adjustment, and 1 round spent dazed.


Burning Hands (L1) is a 15' cone. Directional, not a lot of distance, but at least it's out of reach.

Fireburst (CA L2) only knocks foes back 5', but is an AoE around you that explicitly does not affect you.

While not energy damage, and therefore not eligible for BoTT...
Dawnburst (CM L1) does have a reflex save...for undead/light sensitive only. Knock the drow and vampires around, do no damage to you or your allies. Cast at point blank safely.

Kelgore's Grave Mist (PHBII, L2) is a 20' radius spread of cold damge that can cause fatigue. Not as useful for point-blank purposes, but a 4th level spell that can render you stunned, prone, fatigued, push you back AND slap you with lightning damage...that hangs around for 1 round per level? Not bad.




At higher levels, you can have fun with the various cones from 3rd on up, or a lightning-substituted wall of fire for continuous knockback fun.

[ericgrau]

I heard "Get away from me" got it mixed up with "Let go of me (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/letGoOfMe.htm)." Yeah, that's right, a spell with that name exists.

[Eliana Solange]

Even better. Drop the explosive fireball right between you and whoever's trying to kill you so you go flying one direction and they go flying in the other.

very nice :)

[Eliana Solange]

I heard "Get away from me" got it mixed up with "Let go of me (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/letGoOfMe.htm)." Yeah, that's right, a spell with that name exists.

Also very nice :smallcool:

[Eliana Solange]

Energy Sub: Electricity
Born of Three Thunders
Explosive Spell.

Cool combination to be sure :smallbiggrin:

[ThiagoMartell]

Cool combination to be sure :smallbiggrin:

Kinda hard not to be screwed by it, though.
You need a skill trick to stand up from prone as a free action, Favor of the Martyr active or the Quick Recovery feat and immunity/resistance to electricity and sonic.

[Andorax]

Or...just don't drop spells on your own head that have these traits...stick to "around me" spells and cones to push people away.

[Rejakor]

Yeah, like, say, Fireburst.

Or hell, just use Sculpt.

[TuggyNE]

Yeah, like, say, Fireburst.

Or hell, just use Sculpt.

Hmm. Now I have to wonder if a Sculpted Explosive Fireball would blow enemies out away from you in all cases, or if a sufficiently close enemy would be blasted towards the sculpted 5' gap where you're standing — which I need hardly say would be unfortunate.

[Andorax]

Sculpt a hole in a big cone...over a pit?

[kardar233]

Yeah, Forcewave is your go-to here. Also good for prepping the second stage of thermobaric detonations.

[Lapak]

Hmm. Now I have to wonder if a Sculpted Explosive Fireball would blow enemies out away from you in all cases, or if a sufficiently close enemy would be blasted towards the sculpted 5' gap where you're standing — which I need hardly say would be unfortunate.History of Magic, Vol 3 ("Of Great Miscalculations in Magical Lore"), page 234:

And lo, Trintanitus the Swift did Laugh, and with a gesture created a deadly Concussion of Flame all about himself. And craftily he did leave a Gap in the Conflagration such that he himself was left untouched, whilst his Enemies surrounding him were tossed about like Toy Soldiers.

But (and mark Ye this, O Reader in a future Age of the World) Trintanitus did Err in his Spell-Crafting, for the Blast had just as great an Impetus inwardly as did It out, and the Wizard was crushed to death by the flaming Corpses of his foes.

[Andorax]

Stumbled across a 3rd...Energy Vortex (SC). 20' around you, you can choose to include or exclude yourself at time of casting (bonus damage if you include yourself in it).

[ThiagoMartell]

Stumbled across a 3rd...Energy Vortex (SC). 20' around you, you can choose to include or exclude yourself at time of casting (bonus damage if you include yourself in it).

Oh, that's pretty cool

[Diarmuid]

Energy Vortex doesnt actually move anyone though, it just damages them...much like fireburst. And the 1d8+(1/lvl) isnt terrible impressive.

[ThiagoMartell]

Energy Vortex doesnt actually move anyone though, it just damages them...much like fireburst. And the 1d8+(1/lvl) isnt terrible impressive.

They're supposed to be used as chassis for Explosive Spell.