[PF] - I cribbed the 5e playtest HP. Lov'n it.

[Alias]

So my players are now to 4th level, which at this point their hp is starting to come back in line with what the system expects. This is the hit point system I'm using (for those not familiar with the public playtest.

1st level: Constitution SCORE + 1/2 hit die.
2nd level and beyond: Constitution MODIFIER + 1/2 hit die.

By spending a full round action a character can roll any number of their hit dice and gain back the rolled amount of hit points.

After a full rest all hit points are restored.

A character is unconscious at 0 or less hit points. Each round a constitution check DC 15 is made or the character loses 1d6 hit points. Once a character makes three checks (or any one critical success) this stops.

A character dies at constitution score + level damage in the negative.

[KillianHawkeye]

That's an interesting system. I can see how it evolved from the 4E hp calculations. How well is it working?

[Alias]

Very well, maybe too well. At second level the group took on a troll. Granted, 6 party members, and a very optimized damage dishing half-orc, but still - CR 5 should be a little more intimidating. Still, I'm happy with it.

[CTrees]

Very well, maybe too well. At second level the group took on a troll. Granted, 6 party members, and a very optimized damage dishing half-orc, but still - CR 5 should be a little more intimidating. Still, I'm happy with it.

Do the NPCs get the same bonus? Because depending on how I'm reading that, the troll would have about a third more HP. Not a huge difference, but still a change.

[Alias]

Well, a troll has 63 hp That's 4.5 per die (the average roll of a d8) plus con modifier at each level.

Under this system the troll gets 23 for constitution on the first die, 30 for the other 5 dice con modifier, and 32 hp for the dice (8x4). So 85.

A quick enough adjustment is just to add the constitution score of the monster to the stated hit points. 63+23 is 86, almost spot on the 85 - without anywhere near as much recursive math.

[Dimers]

Um ... I thought for level-ups, you get either ConMod or the die roll, whichever is greater. Not both added together. ??? :smallconfused:

[Andvare]

That sounds, incredibly arcady. Even more in the other direction of what I hoped than 4th ed. was.
Full automatic heal on rest, we called that the sproing effect when I was LARPing as a teen, and we didn't bother with the rules. It was silly then, it is silly now.
Ah well, I'll always have WarHamster.

[Alias]

Um ... I thought for level-ups, you get either ConMod or the die roll, whichever is greater. Not both added together. ??? :smallconfused:

This is wrong. Since 3e it was hit die roll + con modifier, and automax roll at first level.


That sounds, incredibly arcady. Even more in the other direction of what I hoped than 4th ed. was.
Full automatic heal on rest, we called that the sproing effect when I was LARPing as a teen, and we didn't bother with the rules. It was silly then, it is silly now.
Ah well, I'll always have WarHamster.

That comes off as "badwrongfun" elitist bull.

Who is affected the most by the hit point changes? The cleric. I've played for many years, and this is what happens in the current game: If the party finishes the day down any hit points, the cleric burns off spells until they are back to max. If the party doesn't get all the way to max, the cleric ends up having to finish the curing job the next morning and spend the day down however many spells where necessary to get the party all the way up.

Further, realistically, the party must fight *every day* for the lack of auto restore to matter. That ends up bogging the game down.

It's just flat out easier to reset hit points after an 8 hour rest. The "realism" loss is minimal - we're talking about an abstraction system that has mid level characters with more hit points than a bull elephant after all. After running with this two months I can't think of anything of value that's really being lost by the change.

[Jack Zander]

As much as I hate the idea of one night's rest fully healing everyone automagically, I can't say I've ever played a game where once the party rested, we didn't immediately heal up using our spells/wands/etc. anyway.

Besides, if HP is abstract and doesn't actually involve taking damage other than minor scratches and bruises, a good night's rest is all a character needs to be fully prepared for another day's work anyway. Think of it more as stamina than health.

[Andvare]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Alias]

I think no reply is best here, suffice to say we disagree.

[Akisa]

For me full HP after resting kind of ruins several elements of the game. It breaks my immersion that someone who has recieved life threatening injuries (aka negative HP) will be able to spring back as if nothing happened.


Also it takes out some of the tactile elements of the game. Should the group dispatch even though it'll drain resources? Should we risk continuing without all our spells or less health? Should we continue to treck on even though we're not fully healed? These are items that our characters should be worrying about, not thinking everything will be ok after one bed rest.

[lsfreak]

Also it takes out some of the tactile elements of the game. Should the group dispatch even though it'll drain resources? Should we risk continuing without all our spells or less health? Should we continue to treck on even though we're not fully healed? These are items that our characters should be worrying about, not thinking everything will be ok after one bed rest.

This is already in the game, though. Wands of lesser vigor, binders with unlimited casts of cure lesser wounds, and a half-dozen other ways to make sure your party never arrives at an encounter with less than half-health (and often, full). I, like the OP, prefer to cut to the chase and just make it easy to enter encounters with near-full health, though I prefer a wound system of some kind to keep near-deaths as something that does take a while to come back from.

[Alias]

I have told my players that negative hit points don't heal quickly, but by how much hasn't come up since they use healing magic to insure no one is in negatives over a rest - a wise precaution.

The rules for negative hit point recovery aren't as generous. Again, an 8 hour rest restores a character's hit points - if they were positive to begin with. If not then the character makes a DC 15 con check. Succeed and gain back a hit point. Fail, no improvement; fail by 5 lose 1d6 hit points. A heal check can be used by another character instead of a con check.

Thing is, unless magical healing is nerfed, the above is largely meaningless. And while it might be more "realistic" for real wounds to be harder to heal, the value in the lethality increase us dubious.

[Nizaris]

Dimers is technically correct. Look at the playtest pregens, they only gain the average die roll each level and under the Constitution and hit points it states that upon leveling up a character rolls their hit die and adds it to their maximum hit points, replacing the value if their Con modifier is higher. You only add your Con modifier to hit die used to recover during a short rest.

However, since you're using it in PF I suggest keeping the version you have now, the damage output of PF is higher than 5e. Personally I rule that players regain 2+Con modifier hit dice for a extended rest, more if they spend a day relaxing or under bed rest.

[Akisa]

This is already in the game, though. Wands of lesser vigor, binders with unlimited casts of cure lesser wounds, and a half-dozen other ways to make sure your party never arrives at an encounter with less than half-health (and often, full). I, like the OP, prefer to cut to the chase and just make it easy to enter encounters with near-full health, though I prefer a wound system of some kind to keep near-deaths as something that does take a while to come back from.

Most of the cheap healing like unlimited wands are from lesser vigor are from 3.5 and not PF. As PF gets more books published the likely 3.5 materials would be used.