I have infinite Wishes

[ShadowPsyker]

Okay, not really. At my level (17th lv wiz) I can routinely get wishes on a weekly basis even after some heavy DM fiats. My main problem then is not getting more wishes, it's coming up with new uses for those wishes while avoiding,
A) DM throwing dice at me, and
B) A level Adjustment.

I have already bumped all my Stats by +5, and those of my Cohort. I have even talked with the DM and found that the most number of bonus feats I could grant myself while maintaining my NO LV ADJUST status is about 1 for first level plus 1 per 5 levels; i.e. 1 for lvs 2-5, another for 6-10 and so on up to the total of 5 bonus feats I have now (Personally if I was DM I'd knock off about 2 of those). I stuck to ones that could easily be explained in game as neither of us allow game mechanics to be referenced by our characters in making Wishes, so mostly Meta-magic feats which have obvious in game effects. So far I've found 7 other major benefits for routine wishes;

1) Changing class features for similar or weaker features (I gave up my scalable power level familiar for the Artificers non-scalable retain Essence ability).
2) Switching out training, such as feats and skills (Dropped my cohorts heavy and medium armor proficiency for two-weapon & improved two-weapon defense).
3) Changing the properties of magic items without actually increasing their cost (Our druid's "Magical beast-bane" bow became "Mage-bane").
4) And in a similar vein to #3, Exchanging magical properties from items we don't like/use with those we do; especially after reading Magic Item Compendium pg 234 (so many slots freed up).
5) Granting minor racial traits like improved eyesight or scent (Not too many though lest the specter of adjustment show it's ruined face).
6) Changing racial traits (Gaining the physical and mental benefits AND defects of a grey elf added to my human self or changing the specific skill bonus a certain race gets to a different skill, thus not actually giving new "above and beyond" powers, just making tweaks to existing ones).
7) Changing existing Creature types and subtypes (I already had the Minor Shapechange feat from Complete Mage so adding a Shapechanger subtype to my human bloodline is not exactly unrealistic).

What else do you think I could slip in without invoking A or B. Replicating spells I already know it's in the description, and yes my skeletons/zombies are already spellstiched. Also, although gaining up to 25K is an obvious benefit listed in the spell description it's best used to gain raw materials that are rare or hard to find and adding spells to my spell books.

NOTE: Making magic items with spell-like ability granted wishes will cost extra Xp as it is listed as an additional cost under the Wish spell, oh yeah and because otherwise Noble Djinn and Effreets would all be floating around with 200k items on every body slot (Good luck trying to get a genie to agree to give up a huge dose of it's own Xp for you).

[HunterColt22]

I see all this me me me me me me me me stuff not yet one thought about the party? :l If you have the ability to do so, spread the wishes around. Granted the dm may try to throw dice at you but, I am sure one or two party members would love a stat increase here or there.

[Yukitsu]

One thing I love doing when I have constant wishes is to sit down, kneel by the bedside and wish that the world were a better place every day. :smallbiggrin: Drives DM's nuts when I do it, because they always assume I'm doing it for some nefarious scheme.

If you have a routine wish, take the money once every week when you don't need it, but keep it in play in case you need to use it to correct a single event that goes wrong that can't be solved with normal spells.

[Flickerdart]

Set up a, say, weekly Wish that transports you to home base. It prevents nasty tricks where you get stranded on a 1:1,000,000,000 time plane and by the time a single round in your frame of reference has elapsed and you Plane Shift back, everything and everyone you know has long died.




NOTE: Making magic items with spell-like ability granted wishes will cost extra Xp as it is listed as an additional cost under the Wish spell, oh yeah and because otherwise Noble Djinn and Effreets would all be floating around with 200k items on every body slot (Good luck trying to get a genie to agree to give up a huge dose of it's own Xp for you).
Fun fact: a noble djinn's ability to grant wishes is not spell-like. It's untyped, and so defaults to natural.

[ShadowPsyker]

Both of you at the top seem to think I failed to list avoidance A. See above, it's listed under A for Already mentioned. And yes I have spread some of the wishes around mostly to the Stats they needed the most (and to make the druids animal companion almost as smart as the druid, cause... I wanted too). BE WARNED: I dare not spread it too much for the DM Fiat lurks.

[ShadowPsyker]

Set up a, say, weekly Wish that transports you to home base. It prevents nasty tricks where you get stranded on a 1:1,000,000,000 time plane and by the time a single round in your frame of reference has elapsed and you Plane Shift back, everything and everyone you know has long died.

No worries. I kinda want to see what happens if i left all my machinations running for a millennia.

PS: There are a lot!

[whibla]

Okay, not really. At my level (17th lv wiz) I can routinely get wishes on a weekly basis even after some heavy DM fiats. My main problem then is not getting more wishes, it's coming up with new uses for those wishes while avoiding,
A) DM throwing dice at me, and
B) A level Adjustment.

I'm not sure if I want to know how you're getting a wish a week without paying the 5k XP for each one. (Big assumption on my part, granted.)

If this were me I'd just wish for a new character...

[ShadowPsyker]

I'm not sure if I want to know how you're getting a wish a week without paying the 5k XP for each one. (Big assumption on my part, granted.)

If this were me I'd just wish for a new character...

Even without the ability to call Djinn, coming up with 500 xp each week Isn't hard (thought bottle).

As for wishing for a new character... that makes no sense in any D&D world and it kinda sounds like your'e just trying to troll me.



Fun fact: a noble djinn's ability to grant wishes is not spell-like. It's untyped, and so defaults to natural.

The noble Djinn ability to grant 3 wishes is based on the stat block of an effreet, which is Spell like.
ADDENDUM: Assume common sense, no RAW runarounds or broken laws of physics.

Note: If a Nobles ability to grant wishes wasn't (sp) then it would not gain the spell-like ability special rule to ignore the Xp cost and each wish would cost the Djinn 5000 Xp.

[Flickerdart]

The noble Djinn ability to grant 3 wishes is based on the stat block of an effreet, which is Spell like.
How do you figure?

[Doxkid]

Spellbooks. Of all level 1 spells, then level 2, then level 3...

[Psyren]

As for wishing for a new character... that makes no sense in any D&D world and it kinda sounds like your'e just trying to troll me.

He has a point though - is there anything left to challenge your group? Rerolling might be the way to go, at least after you guys steal the Pact Primeval and depose Asmodeus etc.

[ShadowPsyker]

To Flickerdart: Because right below where it says they can grant wishes, it indicates that you should use the Efreet Statistics block from below.

To Doxkid: Already mentioned using it for spells in small paragraph above bold faced Note.

To Psyren: Mixing and matching class features or gaining a few bonus feats does not somehow make my character, or any other for that matter, so powerful as to casually topple Archfiends. I am merely looking for suggestions on how people view the use of "Wish" to gain NON-LEVEL ADJUST worthy tweaks or fun uses of unusual/rare features.

To everyone else: Anyone who just wants to tell me to give up playing/piss off the DM/ or wants me to "Break the Game," I have to honestly ask why you would even post to this thread. I feel like I would have gotten better suggestions from 4Chan.

[Flickerdart]

To Flickerdart: Because right below where it says they can grant wishes, it indicates that you should use the Efreet Statistics block from below.
That's not what it says. It says: Some djinn (1% of the total population) are noble. A noble djinni can grant three wishes to any being (nongenies only) who captures it. Noble djinn perform no other services and, upon granting the third wish, are free of their servitude. Noble djinn are as strong as efreet, with 10 Hit Dice.

The only reference to efreet at all is that noble djinn have the same number of hit dice.

[ShadowPsyker]

That's not what it says. It says: Some djinn (1% of the total population) are noble. A noble djinni can grant three wishes to any being (nongenies only) who captures it. Noble djinn perform no other services and, upon granting the third wish, are free of their servitude. Noble djinn are as strong as efreet, with 10 Hit Dice.

The only reference to efreet at all is that noble djinn have the same number of hit dice.

Okay, then they have to pay 5000 Xp per wish.

[Sudain]

Start to make the world a better place by taking audiences and granting wishes on behalf of the common folk(within reason). I'd think you'd find yourself pretty popular.

[Flickerdart]

Okay, then they have to pay 5000 Xp per wish.
No, because they don't ever actually cast it.

[ShadowPsyker]

Show me where it says that you have to "cast a spell" to incur it's costs.

[Flickerdart]

Show me where it says that you have to cast a spell to incur it's costs.

The minimum XP cost for casting wish is 5,000 XP.

A spell’s components are what you must do or possess to cast it.
Is two enough or should I find more?

[whibla]

Show me where it says that you have to cast a spell to incur it's costs.

MM page 315. Listed under Special Abilities:

"Spell-Like: Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, material, focus, or XP components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability resembles or duplicates would be subject to spell resistance."

Not exactly what you asked, but I rephrased the question, in line with the gist of his post.

[Sudain]

This might be relevent to the thread.


Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A few spell-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.

A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell:

Using a spell-like ability while threatened provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a Concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated.

A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A spell-like ability that can be used at will has no use limit.

For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature’s caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is:

10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier.

Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.

Some creatures are actually sorcerers of a sort. They cast arcane spells as sorcerers do, using components when required. In fact, an individual creature could have some spell-like abilities and also cast other spells as a sorcerer.

[Reluctance]

His argument is that since it never explicitly identifies the Noble Djinn's Wish as spell-like, it's not.

Will say lol at the idea that level adjustment is being invoked to try and balance someone with a wish farm. Although if the DM did allow it, your next wish is a no brainer. Become a scaled one of Toril.

[Kish]

That would, indeed, not result in the DM throwing dice at you.

(...Because s/he would skip directly to throwing the table at you.)

[Ingus]

Suggestion based on alignment

Good: be a wandering wonder and heal the poors. Any week, you chose the most desperate, meritorial case to deal with.

Lawful: be a wandering justiciar and smite the criminals. (as above)

Evil: (especially if also lawful) make a masterplan or a disfunctional nightmare (if chaotic) and use the week wish to fulfill it.

Chaotic: be the supreme prankster.

Aside of that, a good idea should be to focus on flavourful, non mechanical wishes in a greater scale of intervention. This usually results in better effects.
A long run plot also help here.

Examples following:

The World Next BBEG

1-n) I wish I have every information on 1st-nth big player of the world
n+1 - n+x) I wish I have every information on ... major organizations.
a) I wish Gregor (appropriately weak), the nth bigh player's lackey, is immediately teleported inside this exact room (then brainwash).
Then repeat ad lib


My super sweet Artifact Collection (and adventures hook)

1) I wish I know the location of artifact A
2) I wish I know all the defences of location A
(if too risky, repeat from 1, else...)
3) I wish me and my party in location A
This may require DM approval/talk to avoid dice throwing


Home sweet home

1) I wish north wall
2) I wish east wall
3) I wish south wall
4) I wish west wall
5) I wish ceiling
6) I wish floor
7) I wish furnitures
8) I wish protective spells
9) I wish you got it :smalltongue:

[whibla]

1) I wish north wall
2) I wish east wall
3) I wish south wall
4) I wish west wall
5) I wish ceiling
6) I wish floor
7) I wish furnitures
8) I wish protective spells
9) I wish you got it :smalltongue:

And DEATH says "Hmm, no windows. It's dark in here isn't it..."

[ShadowPsyker]

Everyone seems to be making my point for me. If it is a (sp) then no Xp cost, if it does not count as a (sp) then it does not gain the special Xp exemption that ONLY spell-like abilities gain and would cost the Genie 5k, which is stupid!

Also; How would becoming a scaled one not give a level adjust?????

[ShadowPsyker]

Is two enough or should I find more?

That is the exact opposite of what i just asked for, let me bold it for you.

[Flickerdart]

That is the exact opposite of what i just asked for, let me bold it for you.
Same answers. The cost is a spell component that is only incurred by casting the spell. Furthermore, its own text mentions that it needs to be cast. What the genie does is neither a spell nor casting and does not incur these costs.

[ShadowPsyker]

Same answers. The cost is a spell component that is only incurred by casting the spell. Furthermore, its own text mentions that it needs to be cast. What the genie does is neither a spell nor casting and does not incur these costs.

Following your logic; The ability granted does not say "as the wish spell." Therefore; A Noble Djinn could grant your wish for a sandwich, assuming you gave him the ingredients to put it together (Wish just means a want after all). So apparently Noble Djinn have no real power. *golf clap*

SUBJECT CHANGE!

Back on topic (No Djinni), This thread is not about how monsters operate it is still about the original post. Does anyone have something constructive/useful or at least humorous?

[ShadowPsyker]

Suggestion based on alignment

Good: be a wandering wonder and heal the poors. Any week, you chose the most desperate, meritorial case to deal with.

Lawful: be a wandering justiciar and smite the criminals. (as above)

Evil: (especially if also lawful) make a masterplan or a disfunctional nightmare (if chaotic) and use the week wish to fulfill it.

Chaotic: be the supreme prankster.

Aside of that, a good idea should be to focus on flavourful, non mechanical wishes in a greater scale of intervention. This usually results in better effects.
A long run plot also help here.


My character is as all men of science Magic should be; True Neutral. And unfortunately we do not have a current big time plot thread. My DM tends toward a lot of high level stuff trying to kill us with a little bit of individual story tacked on. In fact the only really important and ongoing element is my characters in game dungeon building escapades (i'm trying to make the town a mecca for adventurers). I,ve used a few wishes to replicate the effects of a permanency spell (the 4500 Xp cost subsumed by the wishes minimum) on several teleportation circles and only charge 10 gp for travel. For less wealthy individuals I used a bunch of called earth Elementals to build a road to the next town by dredging up flat stones from below to place together as a path and then fabricated way-stations. Unfortunately there's not much crime as I may have... over equipped the local guards, and the only remaining thieves guild is very cautious (I plan on having my cohort dispatch them so I can get a less savory and therefore more adventure worthy group to move in on their former turf).

[Flickerdart]

Following your logic; The ability granted does not say "as the wish spell."
Italics = the spell. Sorry, but that's just being obtuse.

[Sudain]

Use wishes to create a sentient, corporeal living wish spell. Do not give it empathy or compassion, and task it to find a 'worthy' cause and sacrifice itself to complete that wish.

THAT wounds like a fun wish.

[Afool]

You may want to invest wishes into the cliche of Inns and Taverns making them immune to most types of damage as well as a training ground of some sort for fledgling adventurers. Might want to invest in Gnomish Alchemists... General Temple Area.... a Hospital Equivalent... on that note, what's your relationship with the leader of the community? If you're not the head of house then, while appreciated, all of the renovations could be stepping on some people's toes. (On with the ideas) Depending on the agriculture there, you may be able to make the live stock and fields produce a larger and of more quality product...:smallredface: Sorry I kind of get on a roll with this type of stuff.

[Ingus]

And DEATH says "Hmm, no windows. It's dark in here isn't it..."

Then wish windows in there :smalltongue:


In fact the only really important and ongoing element is my characters in game dungeon building escapades (i'm trying to make the town a mecca for adventurers).

Oh, I have a goal to work with now!
Dungeon building to make a D&Dsneyland is a very good plot for your wish expenses. Wish extraplanar dungeon parts, zones with magic/physics alteration, convoluted traps and, at the end, constructs, undead, plants and elementals.
Then, at the end of the process, you may wish to wish living guardians, monsters and convoluted stuff.
I.e: buy/create/conquer a hydra, buy/create/conquer a ghoul, wish a fusion of both (mimicing the power "fusion" and then persisting it with another wish)

And guess what? now you're playng Mage Fortress :smalltongue:

...oh, by the way, never, ever, ever forget to wish windows :smallbiggrin:

[ShadowPsyker]

You may want to invest wishes into the cliche of Inns and Taverns making them immune to most types of damage as well as a training ground of some sort for fledgling adventurers. Might want to invest in Gnomish Alchemists... General Temple Area.... a Hospital Equivalent... on that note, what's your relationship with the leader of the community? If you're not the head of house then, while appreciated, all of the renovations could be stepping on some people's toes. (On with the ideas) Depending on the agriculture there, you may be able to make the live stock and fields produce a larger and of more quality product...:smallredface: Sorry I kind of get on a roll with this type of stuff.

I don't wanna take over too many businesses as that would be a soak for my time, and we have a Druid that's helping with plant based stuff (I got him hired as the entire towns gardener). The town mayor has pretty much given me carte blanche since my group has saved the entire town three times in the last month. Iv'e used this freedom to install an outer wall effectively quadrupling the cities area, and so leaving a lot of empty space that I am now slowly filling with buildings for new residents including my followers (I recently took leadership and its been slow attracting all my followers). I have also started building a massive temple to wee jas in the new area, mainly so that when all the awakened skeletons have completed their training at the wizards guild and I'm satisfied they have reached third level they will have a place to go to contemplate their existence.

Some of the other things Iv'e been engaged in;
1) Recruiting animal handlers and exotic animals (I plan on equipping the guards with hounds).
2) Speaking of which; I have so far given the guards Dragonsteel weapons/Masterwork armors & shields/Silver crossbow bolts/Cold iron weapons/permanency + greater magic weapon on starmetal weapons as special rewards for some/ covert teleportation circles to enable mobility/and not the least of which; Training & support (Iv'e had the 3rd circle of the wizards guild begin taking shifts with them as part of their duties as the "combat mage" wing of our guild and encouraged the leader of the 5th circle* to do the same).
3) Creating all sorts of dungeons populated with animated objects, magical and mundane traps, animals, undead, abberations, Illusions, and even hints where to find more of my dungeons (usually maps or clues found on the bodies of failed adventurers or in a discarded, bloody backpack). I also have a glyph trap that activates when read. It just sends me a message that someone read it, thus telling me when I need to go restock/reset the weaker dungeons.
4) The awakened skeletons I have were custom engraved with beautiful markings of a variety of rare metals and crystals (so they look more carnival-like and so they each have identifying features) then made with "plague of undead" in a desecrated zone. I changed their alignment to lawful good (polymorph any object then mindrape), but I expect their nature may drop them back towards neutral as they endure a guard position for the next 20 years (guard duty is payment for me granting them a piece of my soul for their spark of intelligence). Afterwards (or if they earn a promotion above sergeant) they can begin to earn money or if they have served with honor for the whole 20 years; can chose to leave and find thier own path. Note: There is a sign as you enter town which reads; Warning: Any hostile acts against intelligent beings will be punished regardless of personal religious beliefs or customs.

*they're the mage slayer department which was established in the guild as a safety precaution against unruly mages and their creations, although really they exist to help protect against clerics since arcane and divine magics have in the past gotten off on the wrong foot and if another witch hunt starts it's good to have them around. We would of course never admit that though.

[Afool]

The only thing I can think of is a general education system. Question though; are there any mountains or other places that may hold valuable ores with in teleport circle distance of the town? It could provide a new variety of industry.

[ShadowPsyker]

Oh there's plenty of industry available. We sit in a valley between a mountain range to the north and east & an enormous "Kansas-sized" forest to the south/west, not to mention large dinosaurs to the south in marshlands. There's a reason I decided to set down roots here and try to increase the population.

On a side note; once we clear out this pesky ancient artifact-tower filled with demonic hordes that keeps trying to take our citizens, I plan on having a renaming festival (Paid for by me), allowing free travel to the city for the event and hopfully attracting a lot of new plots people to our lovely town. Right now the town is named "Recshee" (No meaning it was the DM's random name for the town) and I'm thinking calling the newly remodeled/revamped town "Hubward City." Maybe a better name could be suggested, I just really hate the name Recshee.

[Afool]

I can't really think of anything else to do, you seem to have all or most of the bases covered. You may want to invest in protection from other worldly attacks just to be on the safe side and see if there are any connections to the Underdark (or equivalent) in the mountains. Maybe divine some extra rare metals while you're looking.
How's the legal system in the town?

[ShadowPsyker]

I can't really think of anything else to do, you seem to have all or most of the bases covered. You may want to invest in protection from other worldly attacks just to be on the safe side and see if there are any connections to the Underdark (or equivalent) in the mountains. Maybe divine some extra rare metals while you're looking.
How's the legal system in the town?

Generic fantasy so far. Guards, magistrates, etc...