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Dusk Eclipse
2012-07-10, 04:43 PM
First I feel the need to clear that I am a more mechanical-minded player, I tend to build the crunchy aspect of my characters first and then build a background and personality that matches said crunch better. So while I have a pretty goodd idea on the abilities, tacticts and general mechanics of my next character, I am having a really hard time trying to come up with the fluffier aspects of him.

The character can be aptly described as a sneaky-mage-hunter gish, he has pretty good subterfuge and perception abilities, is awesome in hand to hand combat rocking a +200 attack bonus at level 7*, and has a good assortment of spells designed to mess up other casters.

The problem is how can I rationalize that someone with "The Gift", the ability to tap into the world's magic and use it to force their will on reality, would use it to hunt other people who share said gift.

At first I was tempted to go with a hypocritical direction, the character hating the magic and those who wield it, trying to wage a one-man crusade on all of them; despising his own powers; but still using them. The problem is that while it sounds cool I believe it to be a bit of a cliché, not to mention it would cause some inter party conflict, as for some reason in the last change of characters we got a lot of magic users.

Other option that I was considering is him being part of one of one of the power groups in the setting, and having his training prior to the actual campaign b focused on taking down rouge agents, or other magical threats. But again it feels overused and sadly being part of one of this organizations needs some actual mechanical inputs, that would make me alter my character a bit more than what I am comfortable with.

So any help or ideas to make this guy an actual character?

Tl;drHow can you make it beliveable for a mage to hunt other mages?

Hel65
2012-07-10, 05:01 PM
I have some alignment-inspired ideas (using alignment in the game not necessary).

A Good or Lawful sneaky mage-hunting gish would be after evil/unlawful magic-users. No need to be a member of an organisation, just an adventuring need of destroying evil. A self styled Magister Vigilante. However, it would probably require a backstory in which the character or his/her loved ones suffered in a magic-related act of tyranny/crime.

If your character was evil, he could do this for power? Because magic is power, so the way to more power lies in the ability to effectively deal with magic users and steal their stuff.

Another option is derangement - your character suffers from paranoia (or a rational fear) that there are magic-users (preferably some specific ones - something like Red Wizards of Thay or equivalent) out to get him, so he prepared for their coming. He doesn't mind having magic-users as his friends, because they earned his trust and his ability come in handy when his goals clash with that of a magic user, but their real purpose is to be ready.

The Glyphstone
2012-07-10, 05:05 PM
A +200 attack bonus? First, how are you doing this without houserules and/or infinite loops? Second, why in the world would you need a bonus that high?

Mastikator
2012-07-10, 05:09 PM
"Fight fire with fire"
"It's ok that I use it because I trust myself, but those people can't be trusted"
"It's ok to use magic a little as long as you don't completely rely on it"

It doesn't have to be good, you don't have to convince the other players or yourself, only the character has to convince himself. People are big time hypocrites, even good people. Maybe that can be his "thing" in addition to the mage-hunting thing, add an extra second dimension.

Incom
2012-07-10, 05:12 PM
Two words:

GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER!

(If you don't get the reference, you're missing out on a quality webcomic.)

Less cryptically, TVTropes, as always, has examples, including the reference above:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HunterOfHisOwnKind

Grimsage Matt
2012-07-10, 05:13 PM
Whats the magical side? If your a wizard, take the Antimagic Domain varient. Go the whole, "Magic must be controled" angle. Or, with disgust, you've enbraced the only thing with which you can combat magic. And at the last, you expect to be put down like a rabid dog, before you lose control.

Reluctance
2012-07-10, 05:15 PM
When a mage goes bad, they can do a lot to mess with the common people, who in turn don't have much in the way of stopping mages themselves. Give your character an ethical code that he doesn't deviate from. (Cliche, but your character can't be 100% original.) It's less that you hate other mages, more that you're prepared to take them down hard if need be.

Plus, not only is that more party friendly, it also hands your DM motivating tools on a silver platter.

Oracle_Hunter
2012-07-10, 05:18 PM
Gentlemen, have you met Othar Tryggvassen, Gentleman Adventurer?

Here, I'll let him explain it himself (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040922) :smallcool:

NecroRebel
2012-07-10, 05:19 PM
A +200 attack bonus? First, how are you doing this without houserules and/or infinite loops? Second, why in the world would you need a bonus that high?

He doesn't say what system he's using that I see. +200 may be high but not impossible under a d100-to-hit system, for instance. We often have +40s to hit under d20, after all.

Anyway, why should this even need to be justified? Depending on the fluff of magic itself in your game, this may be something perfectly ordinary. We don't bat an eye at an anti-electronics specialist using electronics to do their job IRL, after all, and if magic is simply a particular form of technology, and magic is an effective tool against magic-users, that's what will be used to defeat magic.

Yukitsu
2012-07-10, 05:25 PM
My mage hunting character was simply an academy mage responsible for wiping out mages who were abusing academy knowledge for personal gain. Just because 2 guys both have guns doesn't mean they're both on the same side of the law.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-07-10, 05:32 PM
I have some alignment-inspired ideas (using alignment in the game not necessary).

A Good or Lawful sneaky mage-hunting gish would be after evil/unlawful magic-users. No need to be a member of an organisation, just an adventuring need of destroying evil. A self styled Magister Vigilante. However, it would probably require a backstory in which the character or his/her loved ones suffered in a magic-related act of tyranny/crime.

If your character was evil, he could do this for power? Because magic is power, so the way to more power lies in the ability to effectively deal with magic users and steal their stuff.

Another option is derangement - your character suffers from paranoia (or a rational fear) that there are magic-users (preferably some specific ones - something like Red Wizards of Thay or equivalent) out to get him, so he prepared for their coming. He doesn't mind having magic-users as his friends, because they earned his trust and his ability come in handy when his goals clash with that of a magic user, but their real purpose is to be ready.

I kinds like the idea of a derranged mage, usually it is NPC/villians that have that kind of issued...could work.


A +200 attack bonus? First, how are you doing this without houserules and/or infinite loops? Second, why in the world would you need a bonus that high?

It is for an Anima Beyond Fantasy game, the core mechanics of the game use d100 and +200 isn't that high when your enemies are sporting + 180 and higher def modifiers. In anima attacks are resolved as an opposed check and with the "open" dice rolls (if you roll 90 or more with th dice, you roll again and add both numbers, and you can continue to open rolls as long as you keep rollingmover 90) it is common to see rolls in the five hundred's range :smallcool:


Two words:

GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER!

(If you don't get the reference, you're missing out on a quality webcomic.)

Less cryptically, TVTropes, as always, has examples, including the reference above:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HunterOfHisOwnKind

What comic is that? I've seen that phrase in a LP; but never knew it was a refference to something m

I kew there was bound to be a trope for this kind of idea, thanks for the link in any case.


Whats the magical side? If your a wizard, take the Antimagic Domain varient. Go the whole, "Magic must be controled" angle. Or, with disgust, you've enbraced the only thing with which you can combat magic. And at the last, you expect to be put down like a rabid dog, before you lose control.

My magical side is my only side actually:smallsmile:, the class is a gish right out of the box and it is called Warlock in-game.mand actually I am specializing in the destruction school of magic, which has the only actual dispel magic effect as a spell (there are other abilities that suppers magic; but none that actually destroy it)


When a mage goes bad, they can do a lot to mess with the common people, who in turn don't have much in the way of stopping mages themselves. Give your character an ethical code that he doesn't deviate from. (Cliche, but your character can't be 100% original.) It's less that you hate other mages, more that you're prepared to take them down hard if need be.

Plus, not only is that more party friendly, it also hands your DM motivating tools on a silver platter.

Sounds interesting, frankly I can't support ethic codes like the paladin one; but it may work for this. Have you got any suggestion on how the code csn be?

The Random NPC
2012-07-10, 05:44 PM
Take a page from Terry Goodkind, specifically Tobias Brogan, who have just unleashed his ability said something akin to magic in unclean, ugly. This is beautiful. It is not the same thing.
EDIT: Isn't the default fluff of Anima magic is badwrong, and must be destroyed at all costs? IIRC, it has heavy Christian influence.

ZeroGear
2012-07-10, 05:50 PM
Gentlemen, have you met Othar Tryggvassen, Gentleman Adventurer?

Here, I'll let him explain it himself (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040922) :smallcool:

You seriously went there? Besides, ego-maniac moronic screwballs like him do not qualify no matter how funny they are!

Anyway, a magic using mage hunter is not that unreasonable. It's like the original Kamen Rider series: Shocker built him to be the ultimate weapon in their arsenal, but he is using their powers to fight them in order to save people. Or, with a more recent incarnation Kamen Rider OOO is using the Core Metals that power the Greed to help others. There are many other examples of this, such as Vampire Hunter D being part Vampire, Alucard being part of the Pretestant Church in Hellsing, and just about every 'silver eyes witch; in Claymore using Yokai blood and flesh to make themselves more like the monsters they destroy. Heck a perfect example of this type is the series Witch hunter Robin!
In this case, a mage is using the powers he has to ensure that those who abuse those powers are brought to justice. In a world of fantasy, I would assume that many mage hunters can use magic themselves if for no other reason than to counter the spells of their quarry. Heck, I would even guess that at least a few members of the royal guard are spell casters to pacifically deal with unruly mages.

As for background, one suggestion might be that the character was studying as an apprentice mage win his mentor was killed by another spell caster. When the apprentice saw how magic could be misused, s/he decides to study up on ways to counter spells, and utilizes his own magic to track down and bring the perpetrator to justice. Slightly cliché, but it works.
Another suggestion is that this character witnessed the work of a necromancer and decided to set that right, as the bodies of his loved ones were used as part of the undead army.
Still another suggestion is that the character just found that magic is practical in catching other mages, and earns his/her living as a bounty hunter. To this person, magic is nothing more than a tool to be used.

Hope some of these suggestions helped.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-07-10, 06:03 PM
Take a page from Terry Goodkind, specifically Tobias Brogan, who have just unleashed his ability said something akin to magic in unclean, ugly. This is beautiful. It is not the same thing.
EDIT: Isn't the default fluff of Anima magic is badwrong, and must be destroyed at all costs? IIRC, it has heavy Christian influence.

Yes according to the Holy Church of Abel, all forms of supernatural abilities are demonic in their origin and only the chosen ones (AKA the Inquisitors) are allowed to use them to cleanse Gaia from it. Yeah being an inquiisitor wouldn't work in a party with magic item smugglers, a pirate captain and part of his crew, a freaking dragon-girl and the like.


You seriously went there? Besides, ego-maniac moronic screwballs like him do not qualify no matter how funny they are!

Anyway, a magic using mage hunter is not that unreasonable. It's like the original Kamen Rider series: Shocker built him to be the ultimate weapon in their arsenal, but he is using their powers to fight them in order to save people. Or, with a more recent incarnation Kamen Rider OOO is using the Core Metals that power the Greed to help others. There are many other examples of this, such as Vampire Hunter D being part Vampire, Alucard being part of the Pretestant Church in Hellsing, and just about every 'silver eyes witch; in Claymore using Yokai blood and flesh to make themselves more like the monsters they destroy. Heck a perfect example of this type is the series Witch hunter Robin!
In this case, a mage is using the powers he has to ensure that those who abuse those powers are brought to justice. In a world of fantasy, I would assume that many mage hunters can use magic themselves if for no other reason than to counter the spells of their quarry. Heck, I would even guess that at least a few members of the royal guard are spell casters to pacifically deal with unruly mages.

As for background, one suggestion might be that the character was studying as an apprentice mage win his mentor was killed by another spell caster. When the apprentice saw how magic could be misused, s/he decides to study up on ways to counter spells, and utilizes his own magic to track down and bring the perpetrator to justice. Slightly cliché, but it works.
Another suggestion is that this character witnessed the work of a necromancer and decided to set that right, as the bodies of his loved ones were used as part of the undead army.
Still another suggestion is that the character just found that magic is practical in catching other mages, and earns his/her living as a bounty hunter. To this person, magic is nothing more than a tool to be used.

Hope some of these suggestions helped.

Yes actually that gives me some ideas; but I am trying to avoid the orphaned hero for the moment... my last character was one :smallredface:

prufock
2012-07-10, 06:12 PM
Two sources come to mind.

1) Serenity. The Operative knows that in the future he's striving toward, there will be no place for him. He is a monster, and recognizes that fact. However his quest for a better world - which he wholeheartedly believes he's pursuing - is greater than himself.

2) Sword of Truth series. Emperor Jagang's army fights for a world free of magic, but uses magic to do so. The only thing that can effectively fight magic is other magic, so it is okay to use for that purpose. Once magic is wiped out, they will be obsolete (much like the Operative).

So the basic concepts from these sources are: working toward a goal greater than yourself, accepting that you are a monster that will be obsolete when your goal is completed, and working for an organization of greater influence.

Kuma Kode
2012-07-10, 06:58 PM
If Anima has any kind of life or magic stealing abilities (or the openness to create some), you could do something Highlander-like. The character believes, whether correctly or incorrectly, that killing other mages makes him more powerful or gives him their knowledge.

This doesn't necessarily have to be SUPAR EVULZ either. Perhaps he doesn't believe they suffer but instead join with him. Maybe he believes that if somehow he could become the only mage in the entire world, he would be a god and be able to use the power of all the mages he killed to create a perfect world, one in which even the dead mages could live in happiness. You could further emphasize this by having his life stealing abilities be painless. They're not dying, they're joining his party.

kieza
2012-07-10, 08:32 PM
Perhaps he thinks that magic from a certain source is evil. It could be that he dislikes sorcerers or warlocks, or that he thinks using magic without an innate gift (like wizards) is wrong. Or, maybe he thinks certain races shouldn't be able to use magic, and that if they do, they must be doing something evil in order to get it. Finally, he might think that overuse of magic is weakening everyone else (i.e. himself) and he's trying to cut down on the competition.

Logic
2012-07-10, 08:55 PM
You could go with an "arrogant mage" mentality. Your character sees other mages as beings meant to be dueled (albeit, underhandedly) and they deserve whatever fate you can mete out for them, since they have the gift, they should be better able to withstand you attacks, right?

Just my 5 second thought on a motivation for you.

The Random NPC
2012-07-10, 09:37 PM
I just remembered another one, Terry Pratchett, the natural number of wizards is one.

Ianuagonde
2012-07-13, 07:14 AM
You could look to the source of the power.

In D&D, there is are plenty of divisions
-Divine magic (tightly controlled by the gods, granted only to the worthy) and arcane magic (usable by just about anyone who studies hard). Your guy could be one of either, considering the other nothing more than a sycophant to a bigger beard in the sky / meddlers with powers best left alone.

-Prepared vs spontaneous. You can use magic because of years of diligent study or because of a bloodline of win. The other, of course, is a bookworm who uses what he doesn't truly experience / a child with a paintbrush calling himself an painter.

The Rokugan setting offers magic granted by the spirits (kami), making any user a sort of priest because you commune with spirits. If the spirits don't like you enough, or you don't want to depend on them for power, you can use an alternative system: blood magic. Blood is considered corrupting and unclean, and using it gets you the death penalty.

Bonus point: none of these things have to be reflected in the rules. They could just as well be the theories your character believes in. The basis of the theories could be anything from ancient traditions to what a drunk guy in a dress told you in the pub.

Eldan
2012-07-13, 08:19 AM
I just remembered another one, Terry Pratchett, the natural number of wizards is one.

That was what I was thinking of. How about htis, for an entirely new direction:
There is a limited amount of magic in the world at a time. The more other users yo ukill, the more there is for you.

Slipperychicken
2012-07-13, 01:32 PM
You need to take out the evil/bad/ungrateful/immoral magicians, they misuse the Gift, or somehow offend your moral code, and thus deserve death.

Magic might be evil, but you need to make that sacrifice to do the greater good of wiping it out. Your party members might be bad for using it, but they're doing more good than harm, so you can tolerate them for now until you can institute the "final solution".

This philosophy sounds like something you can make a luddite-esque organization around. Support shouldn't be too hard to come by among the ignorant, poor, and disadvantaged.

fusama
2012-07-13, 01:59 PM
A few rather simple possibilities:

Your character could arrogantly believe that magic is the superior form of power. Thus he uses magic because it is the best, he focuses on killing other magic users because they pose the most threat, and dismisses the threat posed by those that cannot wield magic.

or

Your character could have had a background where he grew up/trained/lived primarily with magic users such as a magic acadamy/school/etc and thus both uses magic and is skilled at defeating magic from that background. You think mages spend as much time in magic school training to fight people with pointy sticks as they do competing with and trying to best each other?

paladinofshojo
2012-07-13, 02:44 PM
How about having your character be a sorcerer instead of a wizard, afterall, it does take away a little bit of the hypocracy if your character is born with his magical powers instead of actively studying them to use against others with said magical powers.

Or you can just pull a Scar from Full Metal Alchemist, using a crude or rudimentary form of arcane magick to get the job done. However, I'd strongly avoid this seeing as it severely hinders your mechanics.

hiryuu
2012-07-14, 04:04 AM
Another, very easy, often overlooked possibility:

Don't try to justify it.

I'm for serious.

How often do you see cops justifying using GPS to track a criminal, or using modern body armor and firearms, non lethal tactics, and real-time conflict resolution strategies to take down a criminal? Or the other way around? How dare those hypocritical fools fight technology-laden cops with anything more than a can of string and a potato chip.

No. Magic is technology your enemy has. If you don't use it, you are not using all the items at your disposal. You are charging a man with a tac-vest and a rocket launcher with a stick and a shirt that has a picture of Chunk from the Goonies on it. Which is what you will be when he's done. Magic is a tool. It's a weapon and a sword. Call it a gift or art all you want, when you get right down to it, magic is just technology with a froofy name and some weird rules about its use.

Get the magic. And if anyone asks you if that's hypocritical, ask them if it's hypocritical to take off their armor and put down their swords next time they're fighting a guy in full plate with a greatsword.

The Random NPC
2012-07-14, 04:39 AM
Another, very easy, often overlooked possibility:

Don't try to justify it.

I'm for serious.

How often do you see cops justifying using GPS to track a criminal, or using modern body armor and firearms, non lethal tactics, and real-time conflict resolution strategies to take down a criminal? Or the other way around? How dare those hypocritical fools fight technology-laden cops with anything more than a can of string and a potato chip.

No. Magic is technology your enemy has. If you don't use it, you are not using all the items at your disposal. You are charging a man with a tac-vest and a rocket launcher with a stick and a shirt that has a picture of Chunk from the Goonies on it. Which is what you will be when he's done. Magic is a tool. It's a weapon and a sword. Call it a gift or art all you want, when you get right down to it, magic is just technology with a froofy name and some weird rules about its use.

Get the magic. And if anyone asks you if that's hypocritical, ask them if it's hypocritical to take off their armor and put down their swords next time they're fighting a guy in full plate with a greatsword.

This doesn't translate as well as you think, because mage-hunting is most often done by those who hate magic. A better analogy would be a cop who hates technology that uses it. Would you raise an eyebrow if someone on the internet said computers are of the devil and must all be destroyed?

Slipperychicken
2012-07-14, 12:03 PM
How do people justify using war to cause peace? Eliminate all belligerents, ending with yourself.

Eldan
2012-07-14, 12:11 PM
How do people justify using war to cause peace? Eliminate all belligerents, ending with yourself.

Mutually Assured Disjunction. (By Contingencies).

eggs
2012-07-14, 12:28 PM
Why is this guy hunting mages?

If he just likes murdering people who use a specific tool, he's probably a crazy person, so his justification doesn't matter much.

If he's doing it because it's a vocation that he's good at, there's not really any further justification needed.

If he's doing it for some outside cause, that cause would probably cover it (eg. Getting revenge on the Evil Wizards Who Do Evil Things? That's a good reason to use magic. Stopping mages because every time someone casts a spell, The ghost of Ned Magic-Ludd kills a puppy? That's a good reason to use magic in a big-picture sort of perspective).

Flame of Anor
2012-07-14, 02:25 PM
What would make the most sense to me is if he thought magic was great and so he didn't want anyone else to have it.

hiryuu
2012-07-14, 10:35 PM
This doesn't translate as well as you think, because mage-hunting is most often done by those who hate magic.

And they certainly wouldn't live very long.

The analogy also works perfectly fine. Technology is any system or tool that is designed to solve problems. Spells and magic items are designed to solve problems. Magic that works IS LITERALLY technology.


A better analogy would be a cop who hates technology that uses it.

But he still uses it, right? Otherwise he's a dead cop.


Would you raise an eyebrow if someone on the internet said computers are of the devil and must all be destroyed?

Not really. People do it all the time. I hear that science never gives us anything useful by people who are perfectly happy to go to the hospital, take aspirin, sit in air-conditioned rooms, and drive cars.

The Random NPC
2012-07-14, 11:13 PM
And they certainly wouldn't live very long.

The analogy also works perfectly fine. Technology is any system or tool that is designed to solve problems. Spells and magic items are designed to solve problems. Magic that works IS LITERALLY technology.

But he still uses it, right? Otherwise he's a dead cop.

Not really. People do it all the time. I hear that science never gives us anything useful by people who are perfectly happy to go to the hospital, take aspirin, sit in air-conditioned rooms, and drive cars.

The way I read the OP is, get rid of the hypocrisy of a magic user that hates magic. The easiest way of doing that is to move the hate from magic to a specific magic using group that the OP doesn't belong to; e.g. Evil magic users, spontaneous casters; or to remove control of his choice to learn magic, e.g. sorcerer and the like. I'm not saying the justification can't be that magic is the only way to fight magic, but you still have to find a reason he A) wants to hunt mages and B) uses magic to do so.

EDIT: Also, at the very top there is a radio button to delete double posts.

hiryuu
2012-07-14, 11:52 PM
The way I read the OP is, get rid of the hypocrisy of a magic user that hates magic.

I know. What I'm saying is that you don't have to work that hard to justify it, and it's not really any more hypocritical than wearing body armor and using modern tactics if you know your enemy has a gun.


The easiest way of doing that is to move the hate from magic to a specific magic using group that the OP doesn't belong to; e.g. Evil magic users, spontaneous casters; or to remove control of his choice to learn magic, e.g. sorcerer and the like. I'm not saying the justification can't be that magic is the only way to fight magic, but you still have to find a reason he A) wants to hunt mages and B) uses magic to do so.

How about "some mages are, well, jerks, and magic is honestly the best way to do so." That's really what I was trying to get at. The justification is actually very simple.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-07-15, 07:50 AM
First of all I want to thank everyone who has been helping me with this little problem of mine. There have been far too many responsed to multiquote and address them one by one (or I might just be lazy :smalltongue:) so I'll try to cover th broad strokes.

While some of the re-fluffing magic ideas (Magic is limited, so killing other mages would free more magc for my own use,mfor example), while good ideas, they won't work as magic's fluff is incredibly ingrained into the mechanics and while my accomodating my DM draws the line about re-fluffing when thr refluffing would open plotholes or mess with hownitnwould interact with other characters and/or NPCs.

In anima there isn't a division between prepared or spontaneous caster (Anima magic is qute similar to 3.5 Psionics, you have spell known and can use more zeon to increase their power as you see fit) heck divine magic isn't magic granted by the gods, it is actually magic that only gods can use, so hating and trying to destroy that particular form of magic would be night impossible.

Not actually giving a ratinalization won't work for me in this particular case, as I am using this key aspect of the character to fleshnout him more, once I get they why he id hunting mages I can start ironing out other facets of the character such as his personality, how he would react to other characters, more about his backstory. I tend to work backwards if you understand me.

On the other hand, a small realization I had, gave me another anlge I would like to explore. Said realization was that I've never read/watch/heard a story where the Empire is a force of good, almost all media that deals with that has the empire being the bad guys and the resistance the good ones or both of them being either black vs. black or some shades of grey (though IME, the empire is always the darker shade). And since my DM seems to be making the Holy Empire of Abel actually good (or at least a faction within it), I kinds want to make an idealistic character who believes in the empire and wants to helpmthr empress...perhaps even trying to join the Knights of the 7th Heaven (Empress Elizabetha personal bodyguards, powerful enough to take a small army on their own and not only survive; but win). With this in mind I thought of a pseudo vigilante bent on mage hunting, trying to target mages who work againts the Empire or something along the lines of that.

What do you think?

The Random NPC
2012-07-15, 09:28 AM
You don't have to actually change how magic works, just how you believe magic works. That being said, take a page from Warhammer 40k, you have been tested and found worthy to wield magic, all others must be cleansed or tested. Preferably cleansed, as they had the opportunity to get tested earlier.