3.5 Sizing Weapon Enchantment

[Greecy]

Curious as to what it does or how its used. MIC p.43 Says that a sizing weapon changes its size to any size category that you desire. I'm thinking that it means item size category in that you could make a weapon's size bigger to help on trip attempts and the like, not increase the weapons damage; or to allow a small or large size creature use a medium sized weapon. Or if it is used in such a way wouldn't you automatically take the attack penalty associated with using an improper sized weapon?

Thanks for any clarification.

[Ezekiul]

It would increase the damage, and would cause improper weapon size penalties for being to large. the whole weapon changes size, not just certain benefits.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

You treat it in all ways as if it were a weapon of whatever size you choose it to be. If that means you can't use the weapon or take penalties for its size, then so be it. If that means you can use it - a Large longsword sized to a Medium longsword and used two-handed by a Halfling - then you get to use it and hooray!

[Fouredged Sword]

Mix well with trapsmith and the crossbow trap for nice damage. Max sized crossbows are hard hide, but funny:smalltongue:.

[Wyntonian]

The only time I ever used it was on a character that regularly (read:every damn fight) would change size, and needed his weapon to be two-handed pretty much all the time.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think the idea is that the weapon could still be used if the character's size was changed in a way that didn't change the size of his weapon. E.g. if the party wizard polymorphed the fighter into a frost giant.

[animewatcha]

If you have 'monk' builds that make use of the wording of monk's unarmed strikes ( manufactored/natural weapons ), then you get 'free' enlarge spells.

Dragon flying away? Become ginourmous and hit it with AoOs within your reach. Provided you are outside, of course.

-sidenote- since you would be changing size categories like this on said 'monk', do you are start applying multiples of the +Str, +con, etc. ? Kinda like going from medium to large via half-mino.

[Mithril Leaf]

If you have 'monk' builds that make use of the wording of monk's unarmed strikes ( manufactored/natural weapons ), then you get 'free' enlarge spells.

Dragon flying away? Become ginourmous and hit it with AoOs within your reach. Provided you are outside, of course.

-sidenote- since you would be changing size categories like this on said 'monk', do you are start applying multiples of the +Str, +con, etc. ? Kinda like going from medium to large via half-mino.

That sounds like just about the best thing ever. Just saying that it would probably outperform most other default melee builds damage wise in open fields. Awesome.

[Greecy]

Ok thanks, pretty much what i had guessed.

[Namfuak]

If you have 'monk' builds that make use of the wording of monk's unarmed strikes ( manufactored/natural weapons ), then you get 'free' enlarge spells.

Dragon flying away? Become ginourmous and hit it with AoOs within your reach. Provided you are outside, of course.

-sidenote- since you would be changing size categories like this on said 'monk', do you are start applying multiples of the +Str, +con, etc. ? Kinda like going from medium to large via half-mino.

I'm personally of the camp that the monk's size doesn't actually change, so he is still medium. Just with giant whatever he just changed the size of. I seem to recall reading somewhere that all creatures are always considered proficient with their unarmed strikes, so it's up to you whether they would take a size penalty (basically whether it applies to changing the size of your unarmed strike).

Besides the listed uses, some people use sizing in combination with a throwing/returning weapon and have it go to colossal after they throw it, so they don't take the penalty for using a weapon that is too large.

[Darrin]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that all creatures are always considered proficient with their unarmed strikes

Nitpick: No, an unarmed strike is considered to be either a simple weapon (per the PHB chart) or a natural weapon (per the magic weapon spell). *Most* creature types are automatically proficient with whatever is listed in their stat block and with all their natural weapons. Humanoids, however, are not. Their weapon proficiencies are determined by their class levels.

[TuggyNE]

Nitpick: No, an unarmed strike is considered to be either a simple weapon (per the PHB chart) or a natural weapon (per the magic weapon spell). *Most* creature types are automatically proficient with whatever is listed in their stat block and with all their natural weapons. Humanoids, however, are not. Their weapon proficiencies are determined by their class levels.

Double nitpick: a humanoid with RHD actually gains all simple weapons. However, that's a pretty extreme corner case.

I don't actually know what happens if a trog takes a level of monk... does it lose proficiency with its natural weapons? :smallyuk:

[supermonkeyjoe]

Double nitpick: a humanoid with RHD actually gains all simple weapons. However, that's a pretty extreme corner case.

I don't actually know what happens if a trog takes a level of monk... does it lose proficiency with its natural weapons? :smallyuk:

why would it? a fighter that takes a level of wizard doesn't forget how to use martial weapons

The sizing enchantment isn't much use for most adventurers unless you have effect that change your size a lot, it's very useful for a Master of Many Forms who can turn into various sized humanoid creatures on a whim.

[Qwertystop]

why would it? a fighter that takes a level of wizard doesn't forget how to use martial weapons

Because by RAW, monks don't have proficiency with unarmed strike.

[NeedsAnswersNao]

You enhanced your weapon by 3.5 inches?

Which product did you use?

[Seatbelt]

I was under the assumption that magic weapons and armor re-sized to accommodate the wielder?

[bobthe6th]

man, the suggestions of dropping a sizing anvil from above hasn't been suggested? what about making a bridge with a colossal+ glave?

[Andezzar]

I was under the assumption that magic weapons and armor re-sized to accommodate the wielder?Nope. That's what the enchantment is for.

[A_S]

Nope. That's what the enchantment is for.

Well, most size-changing magic that only changes size includes specific text that helps you out with this, e.g., "All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell" for Enlarge Person. But I think shape-changing magic generally doesn't, which could give an excuse for the Sizing enhancement.

[TuggyNE]

why would it? a fighter that takes a level of wizard doesn't forget how to use martial weapons

The sizing enchantment isn't much use for most adventurers unless you have effect that change your size a lot, it's very useful for a Master of Many Forms who can turn into various sized humanoid creatures on a whim.


Because by RAW, monks don't have proficiency with unarmed strike.

Specifically, humanoids get proficiency "with all simple weapons, or by character class." (emphasis added) (And, as noted, monks don't get all simple weapons, and don't get unarmed strike or natural attack proficiency specifically, so humanoid monks don't get proficiency with unarmed strike.) So ... yeah.

[Darrin]

Nope. That's what the enchantment is for.

Rings automatically resize, and most magical clothing, but by default weapons and armor are whatever size you find them as. Most size-changing spells also change the size of your equipment, so the Sizing property is used mostly to resize an existing weapon that was the wrong size to begin with, or you picked up somehting later that allows larger weapons, such as Strongarm Bracers.

Neat sizing trick: Flying Force Surfboard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10294124&postcount=5). Take a riverine shield, add the Variable shield property, then enchant it as a weapon with Sizing (+5000 GP, MIC) and Flying (+1 enhancement, Magic of Faerun). Change it into a tower shield, and increase it up to colossal size for a 15' x 30' wall of force surfboard with a 30' fly speed and a 4d6+13 slam attack.

[.5DragonCentaur]

This is the most viable use of the sizing property that I have discovered(of course it is only when playing epic campaigns). Start as a Goliath with 1 level of sorcerer and take non attack spells(the only time you will use them is for distractions or non combat situations so pick some good level 1 spells) and take 8 levels of fighter for 10 levels total so far. Make sure that Knowledge(Arcana) gets to 8 ranks and you speak Draconic from a bonus language and being sorcerer. No because you speak draconic, have 8 ranks Knowledge(Arcana), and cast arcane spells without preparation take 10 levels of Dragon Disciple putting all 7 bonus spells into level 1 so you can cast a ton of those spells as necessary. You gain a total +8 Strength, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, and +2 Charisma. Drop everything you can into Strength as you are a tank character and make sure your armor reduces spell failure chance for when you do need to cast those spells. You will end up with a high Strength score and become a Large winged humanoid with the dragonblood subtype. With Goliath's Powerful Build you can wield a Huge weapon without penalty. Follow that with permanence of Enlarge Person(I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find a sorcerer who can do it for a price in a magic driven city) so that you become Huge that is capable of wielding a Gargantuan weapon. The weapon will be too large for most buildings(as you may also have a few strains with scaring townsfolk as a giant goliath as well) and you would need the sizing to keep it at a reasonable size while in towns and cities. Of course the delve into epic level hits crazy as you should have taken Monkey Grip already(reduce the category of say a greatsword to one-handed) and at level 27 with more levels of fighter the whole way to it you take Wield Oversized Weapon as a bonus feat. This now allows you to wield one more size category up without penalty giving you the ability to wield a Colossal Greatsword as a one-handed weapon at no penalty. You would definately need sizing to keep out of trouble when you aren't in combat at that point. To be a crude about it(if your dex started off well and you put some of that strength bonus into dexterity instead) get Perfect two-weapon fighting(your bonuses to attack should easily outweigh the penalties at this point) and acquire boots that let you use Dimension Door a couple of times or more a day. That way as a swift action you can get within attack range of an enemy and lay into them with a greatsword and a scimitar(both colossal at minimum penalties for what you are doing) and lay into them fiendishly with 8 overpowered attacks. Any non-tank target could easily fall in that single assault. Things go from intense to insane with Epic, but most of this build still shows a decent use of Sizing as you don't need everyone looking at an oversize weapon you wield on the way to those levels.

[Lerondiel]

This is the most viable use of the sizing property that I have discovered(of course it is only when playing epic campaigns). Start as a Goliath with 1 level of sorcerer and take non attack spells(the only time you will use them is for distractions or non combat situations so pick some good level 1 spells) and take 8 levels of fighter for 10 levels total so far. Make sure that Knowledge(Arcana) gets to 8 ranks and you speak Draconic from a bonus language and being sorcerer. No because you speak draconic, have 8 ranks Knowledge(Arcana), and cast arcane spells without preparation take 10 levels of Dragon Disciple putting all 7 bonus spells into level 1 so you can cast a ton of those spells as necessary. You gain a total +8 Strength, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, and +2 Charisma. Drop everything you can into Strength as you are a tank character and make sure your armor reduces spell failure chance for when you do need to cast those spells. You will end up with a high Strength score and become a Large winged humanoid with the dragonblood subtype. With Goliath's Powerful Build you can wield a Huge weapon without penalty. Follow that with permanence of Enlarge Person(I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find a sorcerer who can do it for a price in a magic driven city) so that you become Huge that is capable of wielding a Gargantuan weapon. The weapon will be too large for most buildings(as you may also have a few strains with scaring townsfolk as a giant goliath as well) and you would need the sizing to keep it at a reasonable size while in towns and cities. Of course the delve into epic level hits crazy as you should have taken Monkey Grip already(reduce the category of say a greatsword to one-handed) and at level 27 with more levels of fighter the whole way to it you take Wield Oversized Weapon as a bonus feat. This now allows you to wield one more size category up without penalty giving you the ability to wield a Colossal Greatsword as a one-handed weapon at no penalty. You would definately need sizing to keep out of trouble when you aren't in combat at that point. To be a crude about it(if your dex started off well and you put some of that strength bonus into dexterity instead) get Perfect two-weapon fighting(your bonuses to attack should easily outweigh the penalties at this point) and acquire boots that let you use Dimension Door a couple of times or more a day. That way as a swift action you can get within attack range of an enemy and lay into them with a greatsword and a scimitar(both colossal at minimum penalties for what you are doing) and lay into them fiendishly with 8 overpowered attacks. Any non-tank target could easily fall in that single assault. Things go from intense to insane with Epic, but most of this build still shows a decent use of Sizing as you don't need everyone looking at an oversize weapon you wield on the way to those levels.



Gee, that kinda sounds like a lot of work compared to Shapechanging into an Eldritch Giant + Enlarge Person

[Deophaun]

Step 1: Start with a Sizing weapon that is normally appropriate for you size.
Step 2: Cast enlarge weapon (Complete Scoundrel) on that weapon.
Step 3: Size weapon to Colossal.
Step 4: Wield Colossal-sized weapon as if it was a weapon of its original size.
Step 5: Have fun!
Step 6: Size it back to normal before the spell's duration runs out.