PF weapons question

[herrhauptmann]

I'm working on my first pathfinder character in months.
The character is going to have a decent dex and an air theme. (No source of bonus damage, so I'm skipping TWF)

So, does anyone have a list of which PF melee weapons work with weapon finesse? (Besides 'all light weapons') The big chart on the SRD doesn't list 'finesse,' even for weapons like the rapier or the aldori dueling sword.

Beyond that, does anyone think a particular weapon fits well with an air theme?

-Thank you


edit:
Oh, and I could ask the DM to allow weapons from 3.5. But I don't want to keep bugging him for feats, weapons, prestige classes, etc.

[Ravenica]

well's I'm playing a strix arcane trickster right now with an air theme and (skull and shackles campaign) and the dm allowed cutlass though it doesn't specify it is, weapon finess itself has a short list of the exceptions that are normally in play with it but iirc none of the weapons added from supplements specifically say they are allowed...

[ClockworkSun]

The Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-finesse-combat---final) feat itself lists light weapons, as well as the rapier, whip, spiked chain, and the elven curve blade.

I'm also a big fan of the Dervish Dance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat) feat, which lets you use weapon finesse on scimitars and get Dex to damage with them as well. However, you can't use a weapon or shield in your other hand, so some spell-casting to make that hand useful or other means of making a free hand worthwhile is suggested.

[Larpus]

Well, there's also the elven curved blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/curve-blade-elven), being elven I'd guess it looks pretty fluid and good for an "airy" combat style.

As a bonus, its critical is 18-20, so you can make a critical build if you want to.

It's a two-handed exotic for everyone not an elf though.

[herrhauptmann]

Well, there's also the elven curved blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/curve-blade-elven), being elven I'd guess it looks pretty fluid and good for an "airy" combat style.

As a bonus, its critical is 18-20, so you can make a critical build if you want to.

It's a two-handed exotic for everyone not an elf though.
2 handed means I still get 1.5xStr right? Even when finessed?
Hadn't put much thought into a crit build. Do you mean crit-fishing for damage, or stacking various effects like fear/shaken/bleeding on the foe when I crit? (Or both)


The Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-finesse-combat---final) feat itself lists light weapons, as well as the rapier, whip, spiked chain, and the elven curve blade.

I'm also a big fan of the Dervish Dance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat) feat, which lets you use weapon finesse on scimitars and get Dex to damage with them as well. However, you can't use a weapon or shield in your other hand, so some spell-casting to make that hand useful or other means of making a free hand worthwhile is suggested.

Dervish dance is on the list of feats that I might take. And it's dex to damage, in place of strength, right? Not Dex and Str to damage? Oh, and yes, the character does have some casting. So not getting a shield or defensive weapon is fine for me.


Also, I have a followup question.
Whip says: The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).
Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.
And scorpion whip says: It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.
So how does that actually work? If I take EWP scorpion whip, I can only attack adjacent foes? But if I also have EWP whip, I can use the s.whip the same as a regular whip? Do I still take AOOs for using a s.whip while in melee?
Is it a case that EWP for one grants proficiency with the other?

[Ravenica]

pretty sure it just means you only need the single proficiency to use both

[ClockworkSun]

Also of note to weapon finesse builds is the Agile (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons#TOC-Agile) enchantment, which is an equivalent +1 enchantment which lets you apply Dex to damage instead of strength. Not much use for the elven curve blade, since two-handed weapons only get straight dex, not 1.5x, but for regular weapon finesse+elven curve blade, you would still apply the normal 1.5x str bonus damage.

[Larpus]

2 handed means I still get 1.5xStr right? Even when finessed?
Hadn't put much thought into a crit build. Do you mean crit-fishing for damage, or stacking various effects like fear/shaken/bleeding on the foe when I crit? (Or both)

Yes, 1.5 Str to damage, even when finessed as that only applies Dex to the attack roll.

As for crit, I'm not too knowledgeable with crit-based builds, but yeah, I believe that both are actually possible. If not, I know that there is a way to intimidate people in a radius for free when you Power Attack.

Another possibility is to grab Butterfly Sting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/butterfly-s-sting-critical) and give the crit to a teammate who has a big Str and big crit multiplier weapon.

Not sure just how well the feat is compared to just critting yourself, but I can actually see a Dex-based control build + big buff Barbarian being a fun combo.


Dervish dance is on the list of feats that I might take. And it's dex to damage, in place of strength, right? Not Dex and Str to damage? Oh, and yes, the character does have some casting. So not getting a shield or defensive weapon is fine for me.
Yes, it's in place of Str (same thing with Agile enhancement, btw).

And yes, it's too bad it's not both.


Also, I have a followup question.
Whip says: The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).
Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.
And scorpion whip says: It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.
So how does that actually work? If I take EWP scorpion whip, I can only attack adjacent foes? But if I also have EWP whip, I can use the s.whip the same as a regular whip? Do I still take AOOs for using a s.whip while in melee?
Is it a case that EWP for one grants proficiency with the other?
My reading (and every DM I asked about this) so far is that both weapons are essentially the same, ergo they share the same EWP. This is pretty visible as the scorpion whip was essentially created to make the whip an actually valid main weapon choice.

[grarrrg]

Whip says: The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).
Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.

And scorpion whip says: It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

So how does that actually work? If I take EWP scorpion whip, I can only attack adjacent foes? But if I also have EWP whip, I can use the s.whip the same as a regular whip? Do I still take AOOs for using a s.whip while in melee?
Is it a case that EWP for one grants proficiency with the other?


My reading (and every DM I asked about this) so far is that both weapons are essentially the same, ergo they share the same EWP. This is pretty visible as the scorpion whip was essentially created to make the whip an actually valid main weapon choice.

By RAW you'd need TWO feats for full Scorpion Whip functionality.

And the "essentially the same weapon" reasoning is flawed. How many 1-handed pointy weapons are there?
2-handed pointy weapons?
1-handed slash-y weapons? etc...
They are all 'essentially the same' right?
Different weapon name means Completely different weapon.

Yes, Scorpion Whip is a special case in that it specifically calls out another weapon proficiency.

End result, either check with your DM first, OR take the Whip Mastery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/whip-mastery-combat) feat and call it a day.
(if taking Mastery, you will WANT Imp. Whip Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-whip-mastery-combat) as well).