(3.5) Warblade help

[johnnyripper]

Hello, I need some help on exactly what is said in the title. I am playing in a game soon that will be a one off that starts at lvl 13.

We have slight homebrew rules which are feats are give every other level and no race with LA.

I will likely be the primary damage dealer. The party will have at least one cleric (not optimized) and wizard (also not optimized).

We are using the 32 point buy system, with a standard wealth for the level. Also, homebrew is allowed as long as it is not super cheesy.

I am really intrigued by Sword and Board, but am not sure exactly how to go about it.

Pretty much all books are available, but dragon magazine is likely out.

Thanks

[Aegis013]

Have you tried the Warblade Handbook? It likely has a lot of information that you would find helpful.

Here's a link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176968
There's also one on Brilliantgameologists, however it seems to be incomplete.

[johnnyripper]

I have checked it out, but I was looking for more specifics of how to run a sword and board, and not utilize power attack quite so much maybe.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I have checked it out, but I was looking for more specifics of how to run a sword and board, and not utilize power attack quite so much maybe.

That handbook pretty much covers it. There is no discipline, no stance, not even a maneuver, that benefits using a shield. Shield bashing is your best bet, and even then, you're no Tiger Claw crit-fisher.

[genderlich]

I'm not really sure exactly what you're asking for; your question was pretty vague, so I'm just going to give some general tips from my experience, although I'm not a great optimizer by any means.

Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution should be your primary stats, but the exact numbers you want depends on your build. You'll also want a good intelligence (at least 14 is optimal) for your class features. Warblades have access to Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven. Personally, I'm a big fan of Diamond Mind and I'd maybe steer clear of Tiger Claw (especially with a sword & board build). I've never really used much Stone Dragon or White Raven, though. And since you have exclusive access to Iron Heart it's a good idea to take some maneuvers from it.

As far as your race goes, you can't go wrong with a Human. The bonus feat is glorious and really helps in customization. Half-Orc is pretty decent too, but the hit to Intelligence makes using some of your class features harder, and they don't have great racial features other than the Strength bonus, so Human will pretty much always be a better choice. Dwarf is great (probably better than half-orc, actually), plus there's a whole prestige class specifically made for Stone Dragon-focused Dwarves. It's pretty awesome. As always, steer clear of elves and half-elves. I really don't have any idea how halflings and gnomes would work, but if you're going to be the main damage dealer they're probably not the best option.

As far as making a Sword and Board build goes, I've never done one before, but I know there are some pretty good shield feats in PHB2, so maybe check those out.

[johnnyripper]

I would love to go crit fisher, however, I have been lead to believe there will be a lot of constructs, so it would be mostly useless. I appreciate the responses. I will probably end up going THW and PA anyways. It is effective for a reason.

[Eldariel]

Ok, so, what level will you start with?


Either way, S&B will probably want to focus on strikes with bonus damage as bonus damage is flat so considerations like Power Attack Multipliers and Base Damage Multipliers are less relevant then.

One solid option includes the Diamond Mind "Insightful Strike"-maneuvers, which replace your weapon damage entirely with a Concentration-check. Since the Concentration-check is also useful for e.g. save replacement maneuvers and some other strikes too it's useful anyways (no harm maxing it), and Diamond Mind is an all-around awesome school.

Other decent options come mostly from Tiger Claw & White Raven with a dash of Stone Dragon and Iron Heart (Punishing Stance on level 1 can be a good option; don't always keep it on but when you need to layeth the smackdown...).


Whatever you do tho, don't miss out on the utility maneuvers; White Raven has some good ones with White Raven Tactics being the absolute standout (Order Forged From Chaos is also an absolute godsent), Diamond Mind has some great personal utility (Moment of Prescience, Quicksilver Motion, Hearing the Air & Bounding Assault for instance) and Tiger Claw has some good boosts (Sudden Leap is significant for being extra mobility on level [i]1, then you have Hunter's Sense among others).

Stone Dragon mostly has the Mountain Hammer-line (instant lockpick!) but Roots of the Mountain can also be useful against grappley trippey thingies; the "can only be used while on the ground"-clause is a huge drag tho. See if your DM were to abolish that; if not, don't pick many Stone Dragon maneuvers just because of the mobility limitations (Mountain Hammer is a must for breaking doors/stone/super high DR enemies tho).

Multiclassing to at least get Spot & Listen in class (Ranger for instance) and maybe to get Pounce from Spirit Totem Barbarian 1 can be very much worth your while.

[johnnyripper]

Sorry, meant to be more clear. The character starts at level 13 and will not go any higher than that.

[Eldariel]

Sorry, meant to be more clear. The character starts at level 13 and will not go any higher than that.

Hm, that makes a strong case for a straight Warblade since that's the only way to get a level 7 maneuver. Tho level 7 doesn't have anything that critical...except for Quicksilver Motion. Tough choice between Ranger/Barbarian/Warblade (or Factotum 3/Warblade 10) and a straight Warblade.

Either way, maneuvers you should probably have:
White Raven Tactics
Iron Heart Surge
Order Forged From Chaos
Mountain Hammer

Rest should probably be geared for your personal attacks; one charge, one-two strikes/boosts/counters, a mobility maneuver.

[johnnyripper]

I had also considered jumping into swordsage for a level to gain some utility maneuvers like the shadow jaunt and the diamond mind saves. Is that a good use or not worth my time?

[Eldariel]

I had also considered jumping into swordsage for a level to gain some utility maneuvers like the shadow jaunt and the diamond mind saves. Is that a good use or not worth my time?

Depends on your ultimate goals. It can be worth your while but at the same time, it's mostly for prerequisites and extra maneuvers.

[Draz74]

Shield bashing + Stormguard Warrior can be pretty great. With the houserule for extra feats, you might even be able to get a decent number of shield-use feats. If you really want to make the shield matter, you can use a feat or buy a Devoted Spirit Amulet to get shield-based maneuvers from Devoted Spirit, like Shield Block, added to your build.

Decent shield feats include:

Improved Shield Bash (PHB)
Shield Specialization (PHB2) - only worth it as a prereq
Agile Shield Fighter (PHB2) - TWF for shield-users
Shield Ward (PHB2) - strictly better than the similar Lords of Madness feat, except for the prereq of Shield Specialization.
Shield Charge (CW)
Shield Slam (CW)



Tho level 7 doesn't have anything that critical...except for Quicksilver Motion.

Swooping Dragon Strike, maybe?

EDIT: It's feat-intensive, but if you were thinking about dipping a level in Swordsage anyway, and if the Unarmed Swordsage variant is allowed, I'd recommend Warblade 8 / Swordsage 1 / Master of Nine 4. That way you can pick up the Crusader's shield-based trick through normal progression ... and get three more Readied Maneuvers in your Warblade progression than you would have otherwise. Plus the awesome Counter Stance ability and maybe the awesome Shifting Defense stance.

[Eldariel]

Swooping Dragon Strike, maybe?

Useful Strike, to be sure, but not the be-all end-all new-options one that Quicksilver Motion is (converting actions to other types can allow all manners of funkiness).

[Draz74]

Useful Strike, to be sure, but not the be-all end-all new-options one that Quicksilver Motion is (converting actions to other types can allow all manners of funkiness).

True in general, but Quicksilver Motion in particular doesn't impress me much. That same action conversion can be done with a Level 2 Psionic Power or any of a number of magic items.

[Gavinfoxx]

Use a greatsword and a dancing shield...

[Eldariel]

True in general, but Quicksilver Motion in particular doesn't impress me much. That same action conversion can be done with a Level 2 Psionic Power or any of a number of magic items.

Oh, certainly, but if you're a martialist build you simply don't have it before then; Psionics splash for Hustle is just a tad expensive in terms of levels. Also, it's worth noting that QSM is free; that is, there's no cost associated while Hustle at least has the theoretical Power Point limitation.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd say use a Greatsword and Buckler, if you need the image of a shield in your hand. Make it Masterwork so the attack roll penalty isn't enough to matter.

At low levels, having a shield may be worth it. But AC does not scale at all compared to attack bonus, so it'll quickly become obsolete. Think about it this way; do you want your off hand to grant +5 AC, or +0.5xstr and double the Power Attack damage bonus?

[Endarire]

You could go the Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood:_A_Tale_of_38;_Guide_to_th e_3.5_Dragoon) route, focusing on high damage. By L13, you can one-shot or one-round anything short of GM Fiat.