Building Paladins

[Stag]

Hello, I want to try my hand at creating a powerful build for paladin in Pathfinder, using any of the Pathfinder books (as well as 3.5 material). We use basically most anything we find, as long as it's either 3.5 or Pathfinder. I want to create one in my game (I'm the DM) to show my players that paladins can be great. My players tend to be firmly in the evil/chaotic neutral camp in game because they feel playing a "good" character is too limiting. Please give me a few extra ideas to change their minds. :)

[Amoren]

Take Battle Blessing from Complete Champion. All your paladin spells are now swift actions.

Alternatively, make a halfling outrider (paladin 5/beastmaster 1-2/Halfling Outrider X) and have him ride a huge true dragon as his special mount. :D

[TuggyNE]

I don't really think a Paladin is the best choice for this, actually; instead, I'd advise you to make a character that, while unquestionably Good, derives their power from some other source. For example, a LG wizard, with some restrictions on spell list accordingly.

One thing isn't too clear: are your players focused on Evil/Chaotic for mechanical power, or for freedom from roleplaying restrictions? If the former, all you need is to demonstrate one or two highly effective builds that operate within tight confines; the UPS man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208620) might be an interesting start for a caster that avoids harming enemies when possible.

If it's the latter, however, you aren't going to change anything by showing off a cool build; you might be able to change your DMing style in some way to shift the restrictions and consequences around, however.

[Paul H]

Hi

Ever looked at a Synthesist/Pal build?

For PFS (20pts buid) go:
Str 13 Dex 13 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 16 (18 with Human bonus).

Mix up your Pal/Syn levels as you wish. Remember - Pals add their cha bonus to all saves at 2nd lvl. Synths add +2 to all their saves at 4th lvl, and they stack!

For PFS I've got:
1) Human Syn 3/Hospitaler 3 (Pally Archetype)
2) Nagaji Hospitaler 1/Arcane Duelist 1 (Bard archetype). This one's going 4 levels Hospitaler, 1 level Arcane Duellist, then Dragon Disciple all the way.

Lastly, Wizards have a nice plastic mini of a Halfling Paladin, if you want a finesse based build.

Thanks
Paul H

[Stag]

Huh, didn't realize that multiclass works for Paladins now, hmm. I wonder.....

[eggs]

We use basically most anything we find, as long as it's either 3.5 or Pathfinder. I want to create one in my game (I'm the DM) to show my players that paladins can be great.
Maybe if you don't play past level 2... :smalltongue:

[Sheogoroth]

Stonelord Dwarven Paladin variant 6 + Frenzied Berserker 2 (Masters of the Wild.)

If you tack Stonestrike on Supreme cleave with Frenzy, you just sundered everything!
Throw improved sunder in there for some extra hutzpah.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Cloistered Cleric 1/ Paladin 19, Inquisition domain, Law Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, Collector of Stories skill trick, Divine Counterspell ACF (CM) for Paladin, Divine Defiance feat (FC2). Pick up an Ephod of Authority (MIC) and various other +level for turn undead items if it will increase your Divine Counterspell check. With just the Inquisition domain and the bonus from Kn: Arcana ranks, your dispel check for counterspelling is 1d20+2 + character level, and you can spend a turn attempt (from Cleric) to use it as an immediate action.

Throw whatever else you want onto that (Harmonious Knight, Charging Smite, Charger feats, etc.) and you've got a build. Be sure to prepare a lot of Rhino's Rush spells in your Paladin slots, and pick up a pile of 1st level Pearls of Power to use those more often. I'd even get a Reliquary Holy Symbol and a few Nightsticks for more uses of Law Devotion.

[Menteith]

Something that I've been working on for awhile - I hope that it helps you!

The (Good) Terminator
Warforged Dragonborn of Bahamut
Champion Cleric 3, Avenging Warforged Paladin of Freedom 4, Fist of Raziel 10, Cleric 3.

If you have an issue removing the alignment restriction from Fist of Raziel, then just use a normal Paladin instead of a Paladin of Freedom and miss out on duel paladin auras.

Grab the Initiate of Bahamut feat to allow Smite damage to scale from Cleric, Paladin, and Fist of Raziel levels, giving a perfect Smite progression (and an impressive amount of Smites/day). The build gains 8th level cleric spells, can use the Dive special attack from Dragonborn to multiply Smite damage, has Warforged immunities on top of Stun, Fear, and Compulsion immunity, has a permanent Magic Circle against Evil active (CL = character level), and all the perks of Fist of Raziel.

[TrueDiviner]

I've played a varied amount of Paladins, but one of my favorite Paladins thus far was a Dragonborn (from Races of the Dragon) and a Lesser Aasimar to boot (for +2 Wis and Cha). Here is a build of a more "vanilla" paladin (no dips in other classes, straight up Pal20). You could, however (as previously suggested) dip into Cleric/Cloistered Cleric/etc. to get Turn Undead early and use Nightsticks with DMM to improve spellcasting abilities. Anyway:


Lawful Good, Dragonborn Lesser Aasimar (-2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha)
Paladin 20.

Starting Ability Scores: STR 16, DEX 8, CON 17, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 16
(these can be improved later on with items)

Final BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5

Racial: +2 Dodge to AC vs Dragons, Immunity to Frightful Presence, Wings (+10 to jump, after 6HD able to fly)

Special: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 5/day, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands (20*Cha mod), Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Turn Undead, Special Mount, Remove Disease 5/week

Feat Progression:
1 – Power Attack
3 – Mounted Combat
6 – Ride-by Attack
9 – Spirited Charge
12 – Battle Blessing (Paladin spells: standard becomes swift, full becomes standard)
15 – Divine Might (+cha bonus to attack for one round)
18 – Flyby Attack (you have wings, and maneuverability increases with HD)

My favorite part about this character was the wings :smallbiggrin: but you can easily choose a breath attack over wings and change up the feats however you wish. For instance, my character loved using mounts outside of dungeons, so he spent 3 feats on that - this can easily be changed to any of the lovely suggestions on this thread to suit your fancy.

[Paul H]

Hiya

Hmm, not bad, but I just put this tegather in a hurry - Synth 13/Pal 7

In Eidolon Form

Lge
Wings (Fly Avg 30')
Breath Weapon 1/Day 10D6 Fire Ref DC 19
Dim Door (Self & Eidolon 'Armour' only) 2/Day CL 13
Resist Fire 15
2 x Claw attacks
1 x Bite attack
No bonuses from armour itself (Can gain bonuses from everything else, eg Bracers of Armour, Stat increase items, etc)
Darkvision
Evasion
Lay on Hands 3D6 6/Day
Channel Energy 3D6 (Uses 2 LoH)

Str 30*
Dex 17
Con 18*
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 22
* Can be increased by extra +4 if Spell (not ritual) used to summon, and have Augment Summoning Feat
Rituals take 1 Min, and last until you sleep/fall unconscious
Summon Eidolon (2nd lvl) spells take full round action, and last 1 Min/CL

Saves: F 23 R 19 W 23

BAB 20/15/10/5

Suggest Feats include SF Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Pwr Attack, Cleave, Vital Strike, Extra Evolution, Gtr Mercy, Dodge. (Still have 3 more to choose).

Remember Smite Evil works differently in PF:
You gain Cha mod as Deflection bonus to AC vs target
Smite Lasts until either you or target defeated, or when you next gain Pal powers
Add Pal level as damage to all attacks.
Ignores DR

Just a thought.....
Paul H
Edit: And these are 'Base' scores, without any item bonuses, etc. :P

[Corlindale]

A Paladin might not be the best choice if the rest of the group is chaotic and evil, as it could be hard to justify why you are working with them while keeping to the code.

As a Paladin you'll probably be the "conscience" of the group, keeping everyone on the straight and narrow path as far as possible. That can be workable and fun in a group that tends towards good but may need direction once in a while, but in a predominantly evil group it's going to be frustrating.

It will be hard to justify working with these people under the Paladin code, unless there's either a very good reason, or you are a very gullible character (the latter could work, Wisdom is a paladin dump stat in PF).

These issues aside, Paladin is a very powerful class in PF. If you want the most optimal paladin build, it is probably the archer paladin - the more full attacks, and the more attacks per round, the more use you are getting out of the vastly improved Smite Evil power.
With high dex and cha it also means that ALL of your saves will be amazing - with swift action healing from LoH on top of that, you'll be extremely hard to take out of a fight.

[Ezekiul]

Well, paladins can make great Uberchargers because of the charging smite variant. Sword of the Arcane Order gives paladins the option of taking arcane spells and paired with battle blessing means some swift action true strikes/wraithstrikes. Harmonious Knight sub levels gives bardic music at level one which means some dragonfire inspiration can come into play, and the From Smite to Song lets you do bardic music in exchange for a smite attempt. Ive made Monk/Paladin using the dragonfire inspiration/travel devotion to flurry with the bardic music buff to put out some serious damage. Don't under estimate your possiblities!

[dantiesilva]

Marshal 2/ Paladin X/ Anything that increase mount rest of the way.

Another one I enjoy

Marshal 2/ Paladin 4/ Rogue 5/ Shadowbane inquister X

Sure alot of multiclassing but the stacking abilities and everything from The shadowbane inquister are devastating. If made properly. I used it for a BEGG

[Paul H]

Hi

Sticking to Pathfinder is simplest - you don't get unchecked mismatched class/powers from two seperate, but similar games. Also, Pathfinder classes tend to be far more powerful than their 3.5 variants.

Just about every class has been improved, and new classes have been added that might have been prestige classes before.Then there are those Archetypes.....

Remember Dragon Disciples & Sorcerors are much more powerful. (DD has 7/10 caster levels plus the other fluff. Plus you gain some of the extra abilities that Sorcerors get. Nat AC, etc).

So Pal 4/Bard 1/DD xxx is good

Synthesists are powerful in their own right. So Pal 4/Synth xxx is powerful too. (Eg Syn 3/Pal 3 can have 76 HP, BAB +6, etc).

Pathfinder can just about beat anything you throw at us with 3.5. Different system, so we do things slightly differently.

When you look at my Synth/Pally build earlier in this thread, (post #11),remember that that was without A SINGLE MAGIC ENHANCEMENT!

Thanks
Paul H