Wereoctopus

[Madara]

I'm just talking to a player about our up coming game, and we were discussing Lycathropy.

Its a rather flexible template which causes a bit of madness when you get things like a WereOctupus. 2HD and 3LA is rather bothersome, but if you did have a WereOctopus, how does the jet work? From the SRD


Jet (Ex)

An octopus can jet backward once per round as a full-round action, at a speed of 200 feet. It must move in a straight line, but does not provoke attacks of opportunity while jetting.

This is a Special Quality, which according to Lycanthrope entry


A lycanthrope retains all the special qualities of the base creature and the base animal, and also gains those described below.

Since Jet doesn't actually specify water, does it work on land? How does that even work? It has a rather amusing mental image, but if you did have a wereoctopus, what would happen? What about the Ink Cloud? This could become a rather amusing build...

While we're at it, why does the Octopus have a land speed if it can't breath air?

[eggs]

RAW, there's nothing stopping it from working on land. But that's stupid, so it probably wouldn't fly in any game.

On the octopus having a crappy land speed but no air-breathing, I'd expect it's because octopuses can kind-of-sort-of move on land, but can't breath air.

[Madara]

On the octopus having a crappy land speed but no air-breathing, I'd expect it's because octopuses can kind-of-sort-of move on land, but can't breath air.

Its just odd, did WotC expect Octipie to come out of the water? Do they in real life?


Amusing RAW things are amusing, the fact that RAW allows it means that it can be optimized. I mean, 200ft. movement, yes please! The real questions would appear if you add a fly speed via winged template or such. Do you stay in the air? It seems like it.

And Ink Cloud gives full concealment, that's pretty nice.

[2xMachina]

You could probably fly with Jet.

Jet 200' into the air. Drop distance = land movement speed (much slower)
Jet 200' further at an angle to adjust height.
???
Profit!

To land, adjust height to 5'. Flop back on land for 0 damage.

[Ravenica]

they rarely come on land but it does happen. I havent seen it but a friend of mine has watched small ones make runs from tidepools back to the surf and taken pictures

[eggs]

Its just odd, did WotC expect Octipie to come out of the water? Do they in real life?
Yeah. They're not exactly graceful, but they can get around.

If octopus abilities are allowed to work outside the water. a wereoctopus could be pretty neat - concealment is awesome, and Improved Grab without any size limits is kind of a big deal (especially if they apply to Sword and Fist's extra grapple mods based on extra limbs... I'd have to check).

[2xMachina]

Yeah. They're not exactly graceful, but they can get around.

If octopus abilities are allowed to work outside the water. a wereoctopus could be pretty neat - concealment is awesome, and Improved Grab without any size limits is kind of a big deal (especially if they apply to Sword and Fist's extra grapple mods based on extra limbs... I'd have to check).

Kind of reminds me of the cloud of fighting in cartoons. Cloud clears, you see the winner and the beaten up opponent.

[lunar2]

i'd allow both to work out of water.

jet should work the same. you shoot out a stream of liquid to push yourself backwards. it doesn't really matter what that liquid hits once it leaves your body.

ink cloud would also work the same. instead of ink mixing with water, it forms into tiny droplets that hang in the air like fog.

but personally, i prefer Dire Animals for lycanthropy. that extra good save can be a lifesaver.

[Madara]

Yeah. They're not exactly graceful, but they can get around.

If octopus abilities are allowed to work outside the water. a wereoctopus could be pretty neat - concealment is awesome, and Improved Grab without any size limits is kind of a big deal (especially if they apply to Sword and Fist's extra grapple mods based on extra limbs... I'd have to check).
Yeah, this is why I want to think about Wereoctopus. Not the giant Octopus, the normal one because it only has 2HD and gives +6 Dex.

I don't think the hybrid form gains any extra limbs...

I wish they did. Still, you'd kick but in animal form if you could get even larger. Enlarge Person perhaps?



jet should work the same. you shoot out a stream of liquid to push yourself backwards. it doesn't really matter what that liquid hits once it leaves your body.

:smallamused: That is why this would be just weird.

[Bloodgruve]

If I were running this out of water the Ink Cloud would unimpressively stream onto the floor and when Jet was activated a bubble would appear with the word 'Ppfffttthh!!' in it with no other effect..

I think Illithid would be a better option on land.

Blood~

[2xMachina]

Based on Explosive Momentum, it really doesn't matter what is ejected. Could be a sneeze (gas), but it'll have to exit at much higher speeds (since lower mass)

Think a artillery shot and recoil. A big/fast enough bullet is going to push it back pretty far without support.

EDIT: As for using the same liquid they used in water... So long the liquid mass*velocity is scaled to the current user, it should have the same effect.

In fact, air has much LESS resistance compared to water. Slight problem is that your feet in contact with the ground will provide a higher resistance, so you're liable to having your feet knocked from under you.

[Madara]

If I were running this out of water the Ink Cloud would unimpressively stream onto the floor and when Jet was activated a bubble would appear with the word 'Ppfffttthh!!' in it with no other effect..

I think Illithid would be a better option on land.

Blood~

That's GM fiat. RAW doesn't even mention any water requirement, or how it works. It just does. I might as well spit out rainbows which push me back 200ft..

Also, Wereoctopus Mindflayer = amazing :smallcool:

What would a wereoctopus mindflayer look like in hybrid form? :smalleek:


Could be a sneeze (gas), but it'll have to exit at much higher speeds (since lower mass)

I like the sneeze, that seems more acceptable than the other...options.

[2xMachina]

I like the sneeze, that seems more acceptable than the other...options.

That said, ejecting from around the center of body mass (or lower, to counter the extra friction at the legs) would be better, since there's less angular momentum that way :P

[Madara]

That said, ejecting from around the center of body mass (or lower, to counter the extra friction at the legs) would be better, since there's less angular momentum that way :P

There are some times where you need to just accept the effects, and ignore the cause. This is one of those times.

[lunar2]

were-octopi instinctively know how to "run" with the jet, reducing friction by keeping their feet off the ground except as necessary to maintain balance and height. they start on their feet, they end on their feet, but they fly most of the way.

[Bloodgruve]

That's GM fiat. RAW doesn't even mention any water requirement, or how it works. It just does. I might as well spit out rainbows which push me back 200ft..

Also, Wereoctopus Mindflayer = amazing :smallcool:

What would a wereoctopus mindflayer look like in hybrid form? :smalleek:


Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...

A wereoctopus mindflayer? Don't they make some Japanese movies about them? Tentacles everywhere :smalleek:

Blood~

[Ravens_cry]

That said, ejecting from around the center of body mass (or lower, to counter the extra friction at the legs) would be better, since there's less angular momentum that way :P
There is a portion of anatomy that ejects mass near the centre of mass.

[Eldan]

I can just see a wereoctopus ninja infiltrating a wizard's tower by jetting to the roof.

[Madara]

I was thinking a wereoctopus rogue would be good for the +6 dex, concealment cloud, and 200ft. jet.


Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...

Blood~

can I sig this?

[The Dark Fiddler]

What would a wereoctopus mindflayer look like in hybrid form? :smalleek:

It wouldn't, lycanthrope can't be applied to aberrations.

[Bloodgruve]

can I sig this?

Be my guest :)

[TerrickTerran]

you might be able to sneak around it using half troll though I'm not sure how you could make it work.

[Madara]

you might be able to sneak around it using half troll though I'm not sure how you could make it work.

But Half-Troll doesn't work on Abberations...

I'll look into it and see what I can do.

[nedz]

IRL Octopi are well known for moving between tanks in aquaria in order to have a snack, which is why they have to be kept in tanks with lids.

How would the Octopus control its movement when jetting out of water ?
I have this image of an octopus shaped balloon spinning out of control at high speed.

The hybrid form would probably be confused for an Illithin.

[Madara]

Ok, this is how it works

Mindflayer -> Dustform -> Incarnate Construct -> WereOctopus

Abberation -> Construct -> Humanoid -> Humanoid(Shapechanger)


I really need a different template for the Abberation -> Construct part

[Crasical]

I once had a DM shoot down my wizard with an octopus familiar idea when I pointed out the ink loophole and declared my intention to escape bad situations by holding my pet above my head and shouting "BEHOLD, THE OCTOPUS!" before disappearing in a cloud of chemical darkness.

[2xMachina]

I once had a DM shoot down my wizard with an octopus familiar idea when I pointed out the ink loophole and declared my intention to escape bad situations by holding my pet above my head and shouting "BEHOLD, THE OCTOPUS!" before disappearing in a cloud of chemical darkness.

Then Jet away! When the cloud clears, nothing is there.

Man, a octopus would be fun in play.

[Ranting Fool]

I once had a DM shoot down my wizard with an octopus familiar idea when I pointed out the ink loophole and declared my intention to escape bad situations by holding my pet above my head and shouting "BEHOLD, THE OCTOPUS!" before disappearing in a cloud of chemical darkness.

I'm sure I could fit a mini Wizard villian doing this at some point in my campaign... though the odds are high the PC's would just see a Wizard still standing there while his/her/it's Octopus just squirts Ink on his head and struggles in his hands :smallbiggrin:

[Doorhandle]

I once had a DM shoot down my wizard with an octopus familiar idea when I pointed out the ink loophole and declared my intention to escape bad situations by holding my pet above my head and shouting "BEHOLD, THE OCTOPUS!" before disappearing in a cloud of chemical darkness.

...I'm stealing this. Is that okay?

[Zale]

You could probably fly with Jet.

Jet 200' into the air. Drop distance = land movement speed (much slower)
Jet 200' further at an angle to adjust height.
???
Profit!

To land, adjust height to 5'. Flop back on land for 0 damage.

Alternatively: Apply Featherfall.

Now it's certainly, not probably.

[Eldan]

I'd get a few Tumble ranks as well, just to make sure. Hm..

Building a right triangle, ten feet high, one side 200 feet... you could get just about 199 feet far. As a dM, I'd probably round it to 200.

[Milo v3]

I once had a DM shoot down my wizard with an octopus familiar idea when I pointed out the ink loophole and declared my intention to escape bad situations by holding my pet above my head and shouting "BEHOLD, THE OCTOPUS!" before disappearing in a cloud of chemical darkness.

Can I sig that?
Also because of this thread I'm going to try and play an Awakened Octopus for my next campaign. :smallbiggrin:

[Madara]

Can I sig that?
Also because of this thread I'm going to try and play an Awakened Octopus for my next campaign. :smallbiggrin:

Do people actually get to play as Awakened Animals? Because I want one as well :smallsmile:

[Milo v3]

Do people actually get to play as Awakened Animals? Because I want one as well :smallsmile:

I'm actually writing a homebrew Sourcebook focused on playing Awakened Animals, Plants, and Constructs. So I need to playtest my mechanics... :smallbiggrin:

I am currently trying to get one of my friends to allow me to play the Dandelion King (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247243)concept I've made.

[lunar2]

flying with jet doesn't actually work. when falling, you fall 150 feet the first round you fall, and 300 feet the following rounds. so, you jet up 200 ft., fall 150 (height now 50), jet 200 (height now 250) and fall 300 (height now 0).

[Zale]

flying with jet doesn't actually work. when falling, you fall 150 feet the first round you fall, and 300 feet the following rounds. so, you jet up 200 ft., fall 150 (height now 50), jet 200 (height now 250) and fall 300 (height now 0).

Feather Fall.

[2xMachina]

flying with jet doesn't actually work. when falling, you fall 150 feet the first round you fall, and 300 feet the following rounds. so, you jet up 200 ft., fall 150 (height now 50), jet 200 (height now 250) and fall 300 (height now 0).

I forgot that, RAW, moving 200' up doesn't actually reset the speed at which you fall.

[kiergon]

Well, squids do fly. (http://news.discovery.com/earth/squid-rocket-science-120222.html).
So yeah, it should be able to use jet even to fly.
And to solve your problem with wereoctopuss illithid, why not go half illithid wereoctopi???

[Zale]

Because, at that point your character's backstory begins to look disturbingly.. tentacle-y.

[Madara]

And to solve your problem with wereoctopuss illithid, why not go half illithid wereoctopi???

That's what I was thinking, but I couldn't remember what book its in.

[kiergon]

fiend Folio

[Madara]

Too much LA. I really prefer Racial HD over LA, even if they're empty because at least you get hp.

[Crasical]

...I'm stealing this. Is that okay?


Can I sig that?
Also because of this thread I'm going to try and play an Awakened Octopus for my next campaign. :smallbiggrin:

Go for it, both of you. :smallsmile: I'm glad you liked it.

[Scarlet-Devil]

I once had a DM shoot down my wizard with an octopus familiar idea when I pointed out the ink loophole and declared my intention to escape bad situations by holding my pet above my head and shouting "BEHOLD, THE OCTOPUS!" before disappearing in a cloud of chemical darkness.

Utterly brilliant :smallbiggrin:.

I've never even considered making a cephalopod lycanthrope. Now I want to make a Weresquid.

[Crasical]

Utterly brilliant :smallbiggrin:.

I've never even considered making a cephalopod lycanthrope. Now I want to make a Weresquid.

Thanks, Lady Remi. :smallcool:

Isn't Lycanthrope transmitted via bites though? You'd pretty much have to be on a fishing boat to catch that.

[Deepbluediver]

What would a wereoctopus mindflayer look like in hybrid form? :smalleek:

Stuff like this is what eventually got one DM I knew to homebrew a whole bunch of restrictions for Lycanthropy.

He ruled that it was a single disease that could only effect mammalian-based humanoid races (so lizardfolk, yaun-ti, awakend animals, magic beasts, and many of the one-off races from splatbooks where immune because of differing physiology). Also, the disease gave one specific animal template depending on the base race.
i.e. all humans became werewolves, all elves became werefoxes, goblins always turned in wererats, and dwarves became werebears.

I tell this story only to remind you that many GM's have a limit on just how far they can be pushed.

[Crasical]

I tell this story only to remind you that many GM's have a limit on just how far they can be pushed.

Some of us here -are- GMs, though.

[Deepbluediver]

Some of us here -are- GMs, though.

Acknowledged; I should rephrase that to include players as well. I know some groups are perfectly happen with to let people get away with any RAW they can legalese their way into, but that other's prefer more serious games. My groups have usually tended more towards the RAI, so stuff like this seems really alien to me.

[Amidus Drexel]

Acknowledged; I should rephrase that to include players as well. I know some groups are perfectly happen with to let people get away with any RAW they can legalese their way into, but that other's prefer more serious games. My groups have usually tended more towards the RAI, so stuff like this seems really alien to me.

Yeah, but once you start using RAI instead of RAW, you can't get were-octopi, which would be terrible.

[eggs]

This is one place, where as a GM, I would probably do more to facilitate than to crack down. :smalltongue:

The game needs more builds like:
Were-Cephalopod Anthropomorphic Cephalopod Cephalopod-Totem Barbarian/Cephalopod Lord/Cephalopod Warrior with a Dire Cephalopod Wild Cohort

Somebody get a time machine, a postage stamp and a stern letter-writing tone and make this happen!

[Eldan]

Acknowledged; I should rephrase that to include players as well. I know some groups are perfectly happen with to let people get away with any RAW they can legalese their way into, but that other's prefer more serious games. My groups have usually tended more towards the RAI, so stuff like this seems really alien to me.

In the right setting, I can make you a serious game idea out of this. Give me half an hour, and I'll write you an article on the society of a world inhabited only by afflicted Were-octopus Thri-kreen. They are still pissed about being banned from the olympics for being too good in the jumping disciplines.

[Ranting Fool]

Some of us here -are- GMs, though.

aye, I've not been a PC in years (other then a few one offs that never really got started) while I would be tempted to have this idea as a one of jokes my players would get rather miffed if I made a full time NPC one... one even gets really grumpy at the posibility of Goblin Pallys or Dwarf wizards :smalltongue:

[Vizzerdrix]

[B]
I once had a DM shoot down my wizard with an octopus familiar idea when I pointed out the ink loophole and declared my intention to escape bad situations by holding my pet above my head and shouting "BEHOLD, THE OCTOPUS!" before disappearing in a cloud of chemical darkness.

Hmm... Two questions:

1-what book has octopi as familiars?

2-How do you go about keeping the little bugger alive on land? carry it in a bucket? :smallconfused:

[Eldan]

There's tons of spells for that. Just craft him an item.

[Acanous]

Pretty sure octopi familiar is in Stormwrack. It's always in Stormwrack if I can't find it.

[Deepbluediver]

Some of this stuff seems like it should be perfectly valid in an aquatic campaign (which I've never had the pleasure of trying), but anyone who tries to use full-octopi mode on land should be reduced to a quivering pile of goo, gasping for breath. If you search for videos of octopi walking across land you can find them, but they aren't exactly winning any sprinting competitions.

Anything else and I would just feel like the GM isn't taking us seriously. It's like, "A were-octopus? What next? Do we save the town of Dirtville from the dreaded wereDuck? Or perhaps we'll recieve a quest to rescue a little girl from Buttercup, the undead kitten-lich?"


Why should there need to be a line attached to every aquatic creature that says "works underwater". I just assumed it was implied, since they don't feel the need to add "on land" to every other non-aquatic creature. I'd also call shenanigans if the situation was reversed, and a red dragon showed up to turn our entire undersea kingdom into one giant fish-fry.

[Madara]

Hey! The Octopus is a respectable animal to have a were-form of. They can be great predators in the ocean!

Besides, people get bored with were-wolves. A little bit of variety is a good thing.

[ThiagoMartell]

Also, Wereoctopus Mindflayer = amazing :smallcool:

What would a wereoctopus mindflayer look like in hybrid form? :smalleek:


It's funny how you dismiss something not strictly RAW, but that makes complete sense, as a houserule and DM fiat.... and then come up with something that requires severe houserules to do. :smallconfused:
Lycanthrope template can only be applied to humanoids and giants.


Stuff like this is what eventually got one DM I knew to homebrew a whole bunch of restrictions for Lycanthropy.

Unnecessary. It doesn't work by RAW.

[Madara]

It's funny how you dismiss something not strictly RAW, but that makes complete sense, as a houserule and DM fiat.... and then come up with something that requires severe houserules to do. :smallconfused:
Lycanthrope template can only be applied to humanoids and giants.


Unnecessary. It doesn't work by RAW.

If you look above you'll find that I already realized that and found a way to make it happen.

Ok, this is how it works

Mindflayer -> Dustform -> Incarnate Construct -> WereOctopus

Abberation -> Construct -> Humanoid -> Humanoid(Shapechanger)


I really need a different template for the Abberation -> Construct part



Plus the reason we do as you accuse us is because Rule of Cool+ Rule of Funny. To us, having a strange build is worth it when we want to have fun. What use would being a wereoctopi be if you didn't get any special qualities? You'd have a +6 dex bonus. That'd be boring.

[ThiagoMartell]

Plus the reason we do as you accuse us is because Rule of Cool+ Rule of Funny. To us, having a strange build is worth it when we want to have fun. What use would being a wereoctopi be if you didn't get any special qualities? You'd have a +6 dex bonus. That'd be boring.

I'm all for rule of fun. I'm completely against claiming something is RAW when it suits you (i.e., "I want to use the abilities on land, RAW is on my side") then handwaving anything else away as Rule of Fun.
It's funny how you mention just having a +6 Dex bonus is boring, because that's all your template stacking gets you. What you end up with by RAW is:
- Str +6, Dex +2, Con +2, 4d6 rolled for Int, Wis and Cha (basically +0, Wis gets +2 from lycanthrope)
- +3 natural armor (plus lycanthrope bonuses)
- you can only be an afflicted lycanthrope, so your (few) humanoid skill points have to be spent on Control Shape
- 8 HD of humanoid
- LA +9
- no natural attacks in humanoid form, 2 claw attacks in hybrid form, tentacles only in octopus form
Probably the weakest ECL 17 character I've ever saw.

Of course, you could just houserule the template into a mindflayer if you really want one. But then you'd have to accept rulings like "jet shouldn't work on land, or at leats it shouldn't work the same way it does in the water".

[Madara]

I'm all for rule of fun. I'm completely against claiming something is RAW when it suits you (i.e., "I want to use the abilities on land, RAW is on my side") then handwaving anything else away as Rule of Fun.
It's funny how you mention just having a +6 Dex bonus is boring, because that's all your template stacking gets you. What you end up with by RAW is:
- Str +6, Dex +2, Con +2, 4d6 rolled for Int, Wis and Cha (basically +0, Wis gets +2 from lycanthrope)
- +3 natural armor (plus lycanthrope bonuses)
- you can only be an afflicted lycanthrope, so your (few) humanoid skill points have to be spent on Control Shape
- 8 HD of humanoid
- LA +9
- no natural attacks in humanoid form, 2 claw attacks in hybrid form, tentacles only in octopus form
Probably the weakest ECL 17 character I've ever saw.

Of course, you could just houserule the template into a mindflayer if you really want one. But then you'd have to accept rulings like "jet shouldn't work on land, or at leats it shouldn't work the same way it does in the water".

You didn't mention any of the mindflayer abilities. And the Rule of Cool applies to why I'm using RAW in such a way. No, I wouldn't have to accept rulings that don't follow RAW. In fact, most GMs wouldn't mind having a character like this in a humorous game.

Now if I wanted the Wereoctopus by RAW for optimization, I'd go for Incarnate Construct Warforged WereOctopus. Which would only have 1 LA for contracted Lycanthropy, and 2 animal HD. Sacrificing 3 levels seems fair to gain A cloud of concealment and the ability to jet 200ft. backwards. Its really not broken, or overpowered. Yes, RAI might agree that the abilities shouldn't work on land, but things would be more exciting if you went with RAW on this one. But in this game we have to embrace the RAW mistakes. How bad would it be for an underpowered 3rd level character to be able to Jet 200ft. backwards and use a cloud of concealment?

[ThiagoMartell]

You didn't mention any of the mindflayer abilities.

That's because you lose all of them due to the incarnate construct template.

[2xMachina]

IRL, Jet works in air. See those airplanes? Jet engines, where compressed air is expelled at speed to provide thrust, do not require water to push against.

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.

Concealment... wouldn't work in air IRL without converting to smoke, instead of liquid ink.

[Zale]

Less arguing, more weird Were-Creaturing.

Were-Orca!

Sure you'd have to be an epic level character, but the look on everyone's faces when that Hill Giant turns into an Orca..

[Menteith]

IRL, Jet works in air. See those airplanes? Jet engines, where compressed air is expelled at speed to provide thrust, do not require water to push against.

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.

Concealment... wouldn't work in air IRL without converting to smoke, instead of liquid ink.

Bear in mind neither ability works out of the water on the Antropomorphic (Giant) Octopus. Take from that what you will.

[Eldan]

I just had this awesome idea for Were-octopus pirates.

Just imagine. Ship sailing along. Suddenly, something flies out of the water at incredible speed. One of the sailors somewhere up in the rigging just vanishes with a splash. Three more sailors vanish, the rest rings the alarm.
Then it happens. Jumping out of the sea, fifty feet high, before landing on the upper decks and even the masts, octopus pirates.

[Zale]

Octopus Pirates: Glub Glub Glub!*

*Argh! Hand us your loot!

[eggs]

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.
Good luck backing that up.

[lunar2]

IRL, jet works on land

FTFY. just because something would work IRL, doesn't mean it's RAI. squid have only been documented as flying for a couple of years, while the monster manual came out a decade ago, so they definitely weren't intending for it to work that way.

[Deophaun]

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.
There's the problem of having that liquid in the first place. Once they're out of the water, it's like walking around with your mouth full. They'd be partially contracting their jet muscles the entire time to keep the cavity sealed off, which would get tiring and likely result in numerous small leaks. I'm not sure if they can even close the siphon end. And if they shifted while on land, they won't have any water in the mantle cavity to begin with.

This applies, of course, only if you're trying to take reality into account, which seems a strange things to do with the fantastical lycanthropy. If I was running a wereoctopus against my players, I wouldn't try to justify its abilities with biology or physics, as they literally can't hold water in this case. I'd just say "magic" and be done with it.

Edit: BTW, this has given me an idea for an encounter on a bridge over waters infested by fiendish octopi that have been given fly-by attack as a bonus feat.

[Deepbluediver]

IRL, Jet works in air. See those airplanes? Jet engines, where compressed air is expelled at speed to provide thrust, do not require water to push against.

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.

How fast does a jet airplane go when it's underwater? How fast does a jet speedboat go when it's on land?

The environment that something is intended to function in is critical; the jet-propulsion mechanism for a squid or octopus works by drawing in water, of which there is relatively very little in the atmosphere. That's why giant squid stay in the ocean instead of invading our cities...at least, so far. :smallbiggrin:

I would consider a were-octopus (or squid, or shark, or just about anything else like that) to be perfectly acceptable in an aquatic campaign, but I would have real problems with allowing them to function unhindered on land.


Less arguing, more weird Were-Creaturing.

How about a were-sea anemone?

What I really want though is a were-lobster. Natural armor plating and killer claws will beat your jet-squid any day of the week. :smallbiggrin:

[Zale]

While we're at it, why not a Were-Carp.

Dwarves will die swiftly.

[eggs]

Are "legs" a jargon term, or can we take Tauric's 4+leg specification colloquially enough to throw it on a Squid?

I could see a fun build in something like:
Amphibious Anthropomorphic Octopus 2/Barbarian 1/Champion of the Wild Ranger 4(/LA buyoff)/Warshaper 3/Primeval (Giant Octopus) 10

Pounce with lots of tentacles and high strength. Use Initiate of Horus Ra to hit Warshaper prereqs, but retrain for a Primeval entry feat at ECL11; use Primeval to turn into a bigger octopus with lots of tentacles; use Warshaper to grow even more tentacles. I'd need to dig around in CScoundrel to see which of Primevals requirements can be bought off (because they're awful).

[Afool]

Or perhaps we'll recieve a quest to rescue a little girl from Buttercup, the undead kitten-lich?"



By the gods can I sig this?

[Raimun]

And here I thought weredinosaurs were cool.

If I were to ever play a werecreature, a wereoctopus would be my top choice, starting now. Perhaps with a Hat of Disguise...
Also, I think it's only reasonable that the ink jet would only work in water. I'm pretty sure the real octopi can't use it on land. However, the wereoctopi should be able to function normally on land (sans the jet). At least in hybrid form?

I really need to research the fauna of D&D 3.5 more.

[Madara]

And here I thought weredinosaurs were cool.

If I were to ever play a werecreature, a wereoctopus would be my top choice, starting now. Perhaps with a Hat of Disguise...
Also, I think it's only reasonable that the ink jet would only work in water. I'm pretty sure the real octopi can't use it on land. However, the wereoctopi should be able to function normally on land (sans the jet). At least in hybrid form?

I really need to research the fauna of D&D 3.5 more.

This makes me really happy inside. :smallbiggrin:

[ThiagoMartell]

It's funny how you would not get tentacles in hybrid form

[silverwolfer]

EverBreathing Fishbowl+ being on land

[Menteith]

Just use the Amphibious Template from Stormwrack. You take a -2 to Dex, and gain the Special Quality Amphibious, which persists through Alternate Form, giving you the ability to always breath air or water.

[Necroticplague]

Just use the Amphibious Template from Stormwrack. You take a -2 to Dex, and gain the Special Quality Amphibious, which persists through Alternate Form, giving you the ability to always breath air or water.

But Lycanthrope can only be applied to humanoids or giants and IIRC amphibious makes you a monstrous humanoid.

[lunar2]

so you become a lycanthrope before you become amphibious. when stacking templates, always put them in the order that is most beneficial.

[ThiagoMartell]

Use aquatic elf as the base creature, then.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Here's an interesting thought on the fluff.

The lycanthrope entry in the MM says that a lycanthrope in human form takes on characteristics reminiscent of his animal form. E.g. a wererat having a thin-ish mustache and beady eyes.


What features do you suppose a wereoctopus would have?......... :smalleek:

[Necroticplague]

Here's an interesting thought on the fluff.

The lycanthrope entry in the MM says that a lycanthrope in human form takes on characteristics reminiscent of his animal form. E.g. a wererat having a thin-ish mustache and beady eyes.


What features do you suppose a wereoctopus would have?......... :smalleek:

Unnaturally smooth, hairless skin, maybe high flexibility?

[eggs]

Tentacles. Obviously. :smalltongue:

[Deth Muncher]

What features do you suppose a wereoctopus would have?......... :smalleek:

Devious, scheming eyes. Crazy beard braided into dreadlocks, not unlike Blackbeard.

Also, for more octopus goodness, I'd like to point out the Tako, from Oriental Adventures. They're Aberrations, but other than that they're basically octopi (the word tako means octopus in Japanese, fun fact), and they're pretty cool. No listing of the Ink ability though, funny enough. But if you're looking for a good place for ideas, that's a pretty good one, since it's an actual monster race.

Also also, how have I not seen this thread before? Octopi are my jank, yo.

Also also also, Octopus familiar is in fact in Stormwrack.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Tangentially, tako, not from OA, is delicious.

[ThiagoMartell]

Tangentially, tako, not from OA, is delicious.

Takoyaki ftw

[toapat]

a were-octopus would be able to change their skincolor and texture at will in any form.

[Kelb_Panthera]

snrk..... Bwah ha ha ha...... Were-octopus, walks into a japanese place and sees takoyaki, tako nigiri, and any of a half-dozen other octopus based foods, then faints from shock........ ROFLMAO.

[Milo v3]

snrk..... Bwah ha ha ha...... Were-octopus, walks into a japanese place and sees takoyaki, tako nigiri, and any of a half-dozen other octopus based foods, then faints from shock........ ROFLMAO.

What if the Were-Octopus's favourite food was Takoyaki. Only found out about his curse afterward.......Fridge Horror.

[TuggyNE]

What if the Were-Octopus's favourite food was Takoyaki. Only found out about his curse afterward.......Fridge Horror.

"I just have this affinity for the stuff! I don't know why, it's always intrigued me though."

[MikolasTheAngry]

Wait, I've got it. Decanter of Endless Water.

Jam it in your siphon hole.

Bam! You can now Jet on land.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Wait, I've got it. Decanter of Endless Water.

Jam it in your siphon hole.

Bam! You can now Jet on land.

That sounds painful....:smalleek:

[ThiagoMartell]

Wait, I've got it. Decanter of Endless Water.

Jam it in your siphon hole.

Bam! You can now Jet on land.

This thread just keeps climbing the Weirdness Ladder like there is no tomorrow

[Menteith]

That sounds painful....:smalleek:

You know what they say; you can't make an omelet without jamming a fire-hose into your rectum.

[Amidus Drexel]

This thread just keeps climbing the Weirdness Ladder like there is no tomorrow

I think someone has probably set the weirdness ladder on fire, and the were-octopus is now climbing so that it won't burn to death. :smallbiggrin:

[MikolasTheAngry]

That sounds painful....:smalleek:

No pain, no 200-foot water rocket! :smallbiggrin:

[Madara]

I think someone has probably set the weirdness ladder on fire, and the were-octopus is now climbing so that it won't burn to death. :smallbiggrin:

It doesn't need to climb when it can jet 200ft. straight up :smallamused:

[MikolasTheAngry]

It doesn't need to climb when it can jet 200ft. straight up :smallamused:

And it even puts out the fire behind it!

EDIT: I had another thought. Assuming you CAN do this, by handwavium or RAW or whatever--Feather Fall. Are there rules for lateral acceleration? I mean, if you're up in the air and falling slowly, you aren't just going to lose all that momentum the moment the jet turns off... How fast can you end up moving with Feather Fall on and jetting every chance you get?

Does this create a supersonic cephalopod?

[Amidus Drexel]

And it even puts out the fire behind it!

Eh, that's debatable. Nowhere in the description of jet does it say that octopi push water out behind them.

[Kelb_Panthera]

That sounds painful....:smalleek:

People seem to forget that the DoEW has two other settings. It doesn't have to be a firehose, and I wouldn't expect the wereoctopus to use that setting, after carefully inserting the device into the appropriate orifice.

....... huh, never thought I'd use the phrase "carefully inserting the device into the appropriate orifice" on this board. :smallconfused:

[MikolasTheAngry]

... I wouldn't expect the wereoctopus to use that setting after carefully inserting the device into the appropriate orifice.

Can I sig this?

[Madara]

This has to be one of the oddest threads I have ever read. :smallamused:

[ThiagoMartell]

This has to be one of the oddest threads I have ever read. :smallamused:

It's all your fault, don't act nonchalant about it :smallbiggrin:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Can I sig this?

By all means, do. :smallcool:

[Eldan]

There's no rules for jamming Decanters into your body.

So, I suggest:
Warforged.
Make a decanter of endless water as a warforged component.
Incarnate construct.
Become wereoctopus
???
Profit.

[Eldan]

There's no rules for jamming Decanters into your body.

So, I suggest:
Warforged.
Make a decanter of endless water as a warforged component.
Incarnate construct.
Become wereoctopus
???
Profit.

[Madara]

Does a warforged component go away if you become an incarnate construct?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Does a warforged component go away if you become an incarnate construct?

It doesn't go away, but I am reasonably certain that it becomes detached.

[MikolasTheAngry]

Honestly at this point, are we just trying to RAW the organic jetpack? (http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/3p38/)

[ThiagoMartell]

There's no rules for jamming Decanters into your body.

So, I suggest:
Warforged.
Make a decanter of endless water as a warforged component.
Incarnate construct.
Become wereoctopus
???
Profit.
Are there rules for that? :smallconfused:


Does a warforged component go away if you become an incarnate construct?

By RAW, it stays.

[Madara]

By RAW, it stays.

:smallbiggrin:

Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful!


There's no rules for jamming Decanters into your body.

For some reason, I just want to see some player say this to their DM. :smallsmile:
That'd be priceless.

[QuidEst]

EDIT: I had another thought. Assuming you CAN do this, by handwavium or RAW or whatever--Feather Fall. Are there rules for lateral acceleration? I mean, if you're up in the air and falling slowly, you aren't just going to lose all that momentum the moment the jet turns off... How fast can you end up moving with Feather Fall on and jetting every chance you get?

Does this create a supersonic cephalopod?
Certainly not by RAW. Jet lets you move 200 ft. in any direction in a round, and that's that.

Now of course, that's boring, so we'll go with handwavium!

Warning: small catgirl-killing math section.
Alas, having done the math, as impressive as being able to move 200 ft. in any direction six seconds (22mph) is, that's only 1.7 m/s^2, which is the same as going down a 10° slope with no friction. On the plus side, you can break the sound barrier in roughly three minutes, twenty second if you don't lose any speed!
Rounding errors ahoy, but it was pretty minor most of the way.

The real question is: How large of a bonus do you get on intimidate checks for being a warforged wereoctopus flying through the air at 22mph towards the target with a geyser trailing behind? And is that doubled if they think you're Cthulhu?

[Madara]

Certainly not by RAW. Jet lets you move 200 ft. in any direction in a round, and that's that.

Now of course, that's boring, so we'll go with handwavium!

Warning: small catgirl-killing math section.
Alas, having done the math, as impressive as being able to move 200 ft. in any direction six seconds (22mph) is, that's only 1.7 m/s^2, which is the same as going down a 10° slope with no friction. On the plus side, you can break the sound barrier in roughly three minutes, twenty second if you don't lose any speed!
Rounding errors ahoy, but it was pretty minor most of the way.

The real question is: How large of a bonus do you get on intimidate checks for being a warforged wereoctopus flying through the air at 22mph towards the target with a geyser trailing behind? And is that doubled if they think you're Cthullu?

Ctullupus?

[Amidus Drexel]

Everything is at least doubled if they think you are Cthulhu.

[QuidEst]

Ctullupus?

I mean… it's that or Davy Jones. Possibly somewhere between.


Everything is at least doubled if they think you are Cthulhu.

I figured. And really, why else would you be playing a wereoctopus?

[Deth Muncher]

Okay kids, it was fun, but I'm out of here. There's nowhere good left for this thread to go.

I guess I'm just gonna have to...

:cool:

...jet.

[Madara]

Okay kids, it was fun, but I'm out of here. There's nowhere good left for this thread to go.

I guess I'm just gonna have to...

:cool:

...jet.

Ahhh it burns. I have at least 3.5rd degree burns! :smallsigh:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Okay kids, it was fun, but I'm out of here. There's nowhere good left for this thread to go.

I guess I'm just gonna have to...

:cool:

...jet.

This thread got me sigged for the first time. I hope it sticks around for a while yet. :smalltongue:

Also..... ARGH! The pun-ness! My Eyes! :smallsigh:

[hex0]

Serious question: Do you get the arms in hybrid form? Or the grapple bonus in normal form? I'm just wondering if a wereoctupus would be a boon to a grappler build.

[Ammutseba]

Ok, this is how it works

Mindflayer -> Dustform -> Incarnate Construct -> WereOctopus

Abberation -> Construct -> Humanoid -> Humanoid(Shapechanger)


I really need a different template for the Abberation -> Construct part

Does it really need to be this complicated? Couldn't an illithid just take the Human Heritage feat, since they're mostly ceremorphosized from human stock?

[Madara]

Does it really need to be this complicated? Couldn't an illithid just take the Human Heritage feat, since they're mostly ceremorphosized from human stock?

Does that change its subtype? Also, it would restrict us to contracted lycanthropes, but that's doable.


Serious question: Do you get the arms in hybrid form? Or the grapple bonus in normal form? I'm just wondering if a wereoctupus would be a boon to a grappler build.

Yeah....


Same as the base creature or base animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using. A lycanthrope in hybrid form gains two claw attacks and a bite attack as natural weapons.

So here's the deal: You get improved grapple, and if you do giant octopus, I'm pretty sure you get the bonuses(Out of pity for all the spent HD)

Here's the problem:


An opponent can attack a giant octopus’s tentacles with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A giant octopus’s tentacles have 10 hit points each. If a giant octopus is currently grappling a target with the tentacle that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a giant octopus’s tentacles deals 5 points of damage to the creature. A giant octopus usually withdraws from combat if it loses four tentacles. The creature regrows severed limbs in 1d10+10 days.

This isn't listed as a special attack, or special quality. So, despite getting both, you probably don't get this ability.

Also relevent:

A lycanthrope’s hybrid form does not gain any special attacks of the base animal.

So you wouldn't gain constrict, which means you probably don't get the benefits you seek. On the other hand, with only 2HD, the normal Octopus is a great substitute for werebear for the Improved Grapple, and it also seems more flavorful.

[Ammutseba]

Does that change its subtype? Also, it would restrict us to contracted lycanthropes, but that's doable.

Yes, actually. If you are not a humanoid, it changes your type to humanoid with the human subtype and gives you 4 skill points. You also retain any other subtypes you had and all of the traits that are common to creatures of your original type.


So, just to make sure I'm understanding this completely... human heritage means we can have an illithid anthropomorphic octopus wereoctopus, with a total of 2 racial HD and +2 LA, right? And that we're still okay to take the totemist class and the aberrant blood and deepspawn feats?

[Madara]

Yes, actually. If you are not a humanoid, it changes your type to humanoid with the human subtype and gives you 4 skill points. You also retain any other subtypes you had and all of the traits that are common to creatures of your original type.


So, just to make sure I'm understanding this completely... human heritage means we can have an illithid anthropomorphic octopus wereoctopus, with a total of 2 racial HD and +2 LA, right? And that we're still okay to take the totemist class and the aberrant blood and deepspawn feats?

Doesn't the Illithid grant racial HD and LA? Unless you can think of an Illithid with 1HD. Otherwise, I shall build this and submit it as "Cuthulupus" to the Lycanthrope Animals and Builds compendium thing. :smallsmile:

[Amidus Drexel]

Doesn't the Illithid grant racial HD and LA? Unless you can think of an Illithid with 1HD. Otherwise, I shall build this and submit it as "Cuthulupus" to the Lycanthrope Animals and Builds compendium thing. :smallsmile:

With the proper application of negative levels, anything can have 1HD! Granted, that's pretty cheesy.

[Ammutseba]

Doesn't the Illithid grant racial HD and LA? Unless you can think of an Illithid with 1HD. Otherwise, I shall build this and submit it as "Cuthulupus" to the Lycanthrope Animals and Builds compendium thing. :smallsmile:

Well, if it's a human heritage illithid, then it has the humanoid subtype, which qualifies it for anthropomorphic animal, and any anthropomorphic octopus has just 2 HD, regardless of how many hit dice the base creature had. So, I suppose it does still have the LA, whatever that is, but not the racial HDs.

Blar. I don't own a monster manual so I can't actually see what the illithid's stats are. :( Well, poo. :smallfrown: After a little poking around, this monstrosity appears to be 2 racial HD with a +10 LA, and I can't figure out any good ways to bring that down.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Well, if it's a human heritage illithid, then it has the humanoid subtype, which qualifies it for anthropomorphic animal, and any anthropomorphic octopus has just 2 HD, regardless of how many hit dice the base creature had. So, I suppose it does still have the LA, whatever that is, but not the racial HDs.

Blar. I don't own a monster manual so I can't actually see what the illithid's stats are. :( Well, poo. :smallfrown: After a little poking around, this monstrosity appears to be 2 racial HD with a +10 LA, and I can't figure out any good ways to bring that down.

You've horribly misread anthropomorphic animal.

The template is applied to animals and creates monstrous humanoids. It doesn't apply to humanoid creatures at all, IIRC.

Also, mind-flayers have something like 6-8 racial HD that human heritage does not remove.

What you've described -may- be possible, but it would require more cheese than a good fondue party.

[Ammutseba]

You've horribly misread anthropomorphic animal.

The template is applied to animals and creates monstrous humanoids. It doesn't apply to humanoid creatures at all, IIRC.

Also, mind-flayers have something like 6-8 racial HD that human heritage does not remove.

What you've described -may- be possible, but it would require more cheese than a good fondue party.

Oh, so I see. I probably shouldn't have been trying to read the template for lycanthrope at the same time. Sorry about all that.

But, actually, I didn't think the feat would get rid of racial HD. I was reading how many HD anthropomorphs have, and it said nothing about retaining racial, but instead just how many the template made them have.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Oh, so I see. I probably shouldn't have been trying to read the template for lycanthrope at the same time. Sorry about all that.

But, actually, I didn't think the feat would get rid of racial HD. I was reading how many HD anthropomorphs have, and it said nothing about retaining racial, but instead just how many the template made them have.

No biggy. Everyone makes mistakes. I recently was corrected on a misrepresentation of PA of all things. I really need to go through my PHB again sometime.