[PF] Running Rise of the Runelords

[Gorfnod]

I have pre-ordered the anniversary edition of Rise of the Runelords that includes all 6 modules in a single book and have a few questions for anyone that has DMed or played in this Adventure Path.

1. Is it setup for four players? If so, how hard would it be to scale it for more or less?

2. Are there a lot of NPCs that join the party for any length of time? I generally play a DMPC but if there are a number of playable NPCs I would just skip the DMPC for this campaign.

3. It is my understanding that the anniversary edition is updated to include fan feedback but were there any areas in particular that you felt were weak in the original modules? Parts that would require me to do some additional design.

Thanks for answers to any or all of these questions.

[Corlindale]

1. Is it setup for four players? If so, how hard would it be to scale it for more or less?

It's designed for 4 players, but I don't think it would be that difficult to scale it. I GM'd the first 1½ chapters for only 3 players, and it wasn't really an issue. I did scale up their loot a bit, and one of them did play a Summoner, so that might have helped too. Because they lacked a divine caster I also gave them an NPC cleric who could heal them between adventures, but who didn't actually join them in the fray.


2. Are there a lot of NPCs that join the party for any length of time? I generally play a DMPC but if there are a number of playable NPCs I would just skip the DMPC for this campaign.

There are some options for having NPCs join the party. Not so much in chapter I, but chapter II includes the option of having part of the town militia join them, and that could probably be expanded upon. Chapter III involves lots of NPC allies, though. Can't comment on the rest, we only got to chapter III.

If you want to have an NPC ally all the way through, I would suggest the elven ranger who appears in Chapter I, but who normally doesn't join the party until chapter III. She is fully statted out, has a backstory and connection to other characters in the modules, and there are some suggestions for running a romance with her and a party member, if that should come up.


3. It is my understanding that the anniversary edition is updated to include fan feedback but were there any areas in particular that you felt were weak in the original modules? Parts that would require me to do some additional design.

Generally I thought it was pretty well-designed. Some encounters were a bit easy, while a few very extremely hard (especially the last boss of Chapter II, who I had to nerf. But I assume this is one of the issues they adressed in the revision, as I think everyone felt she was too powerful as written).

My party particularly enjoyed the whole investigation-theme at the start of Chapter II - I would suggest emphasizing this a lot, it was one of the coolest sessions we had and made a nice break from the very hack'n'slash ending of chapter I.

[Grail]

One of the early bosses, if played smart, could be a TPK. I refer of course to

The Quasit/Imp - can't remember which.
Has class levels, DR, SR, Fast Healing and a magical Dagger with the return properties. As it can fly, it's not unfeasible for it to sit out of range of melee combatants and just whittle the group down. And given its DR and Fast healing coupled with a decent AC and it can outlive any incidental ranged attacks dished out. And with SR and low levels it can withstand a few volleys of magic missile without too much trouble.
We encountered this when we were 1st level.


Thankfully, we had a very large group at that time, and our DM didn't play her particularly smart.

Also, in module 1, and a few throughout the rest.

There is an inordinate amount of creatures that are immune to mind affecting spells and spell like effects. This forced our Sorcerer to become a blaster against his will, as a lot of the other spells that he wanted to take were rendered irrelevant.

I think it can be done with a group of 4, but there are many times they'll need to be careful.

The Bridge to the Goblin fort that collapses and dumps you into the drink where the Bunyip can get you, for low level characters, that's a potential kill right there with very little idea that it is coming.

We also got our backsides handed to us by

The Barghest in the lower portions of the fort. But saying that, the GM was on a power trip and was actively trying to kill characters and it didn't go down well, so in hindsight, this encounter was a little skewed. I, and all the other players felt that we should have had a chance to escape, the GM fudged the rules so that we couldn't. And then was CPG'ing characters in combat and taking the AoO instead of fighting the characters that were up.

We discussed that with him after the game and he admitted that he stuffed up, so it was a mulligan, we got out battered and bruised, but still all alive. We ended up going back there a couple levels later and making a fur rug out of him.

The rest of the campaign had some pretty breezy moments. Saying that, I think that after the encounter above, the GM got a bit gunshy and has been pretty lenient.

The last session we played (we're taking a break for a bit) saw only 4 players turn up. We were in
The final stages of module 4, going to try and find the Stone Giant King. We got trounced by some Ogre Zombies, some undead other thing and a Forge Elemental. We were missing our two main DPS characters though, and this was the first session of a new player, who caused the whole fracas. We fronted this session with 2 support characters (my Theurge - Ember, in sig), a Magus, our Paladin - which is our Tank, and a new player with a Rogue who was a skill monkey, and a support melee combatant.

My Theurge was the only survivor from that encounter. I put this down though to some stupid play on behalf of the other 3 players. I even begged the Magus to stay with me at the end, and told him that we'd win the fight, but he ran off, got cornered and beaten to a pulp.

Anyway..... a lot of waffle, but yeah, it should be done with 4 players who are competent, and a GM that is fair.

[Gorfnod]

Thanks for the info. After hearing back from some people today it looks like I may only have 3 people who will reliably be in this campaign. Based on what I've heard, it sounds like this is doable as long as I watch out for some of the harder fights.

[Keneth]

Here are my experiences from having played the first two chapters with the old edition (personally converted to PF).

1. Most of the fights in the campaign are ridiculously easy. Just mooks that get torn apart by your friendly neighborhood barbarian before they even get a chance to hit anything. Adding some minor casters here and there can greatly even the battlefield. Adding more mooks also helps and solves the problem with the XP shortage.

2. Then there's fights that are extremely hard. For instance (some already mentioned):

The quasit in the catacombs (Erylium). I converted it to Pathfinder by turning it into a cleric of Lamashtu with Demon and Madness domains and some bits of homebrew candy so it was more or less the same as the original. The party tackled it once at 3rd level and failed (ran away). Then the second party tackled it at 4th level and failed (ran away). Then the third party tackled it at 5th level, at which point I finally gave up and brought it to the ground so the barbarian managed to grapple it, and they finally beat it. Failure to defeat it the first two times resulted in the quasit attacking Sandpoint with an army of Sinspawn for the third encounter (see below).
The druid before the goblin fortress (Gogmurt). If you play this one half-smart, the druid and its pet kitten are gonna tear the disadvantaged party apart. Which is what happened to the first group in our campaign. Only the DMPC survived by using most of his hero points and then went on to battle the Bunyip (which is brutal enough for the party as well if they encounter it—falling from the bridge as mentioned before is a likely event).
Since the party failed to stop the goblins, the rerolled characters started just as the goblin invasion of Sandpoint began (I wanted to play it a bit differently and point out how the players' actions have consequences). They managed to halt the assault, killed all the bosses (although with some unfortunate losses) except the Barghest (Malfeshnekor) which they managed to hold off until help arrived, but again, all but one lost their lives in the fight (this time it was a player who couldn't make it to the session—lucky him). The huge amount of dead souls filled the pool in the catacombs which later resulted in another, smaller invasion by the quasit.
In chapter two, the Foxglove manor can result in a bunch of deaths from traps and the encounter with the ghast dire bat (I used a slightly modified Skaveling for this, since it seemed to fit the theme). Vorrel's Phage is also pretty deadly and my party had pretty poor saves too. I allowed them to get free cure and remove disease spells at the Sandpoint temple to avoid needless deaths..
There's a miniboss leading the cult of murderers (Ironbriar), which is pretty useless by itself, but has a mask that casts CL7 confusion twice per day in a tight space. Watching the party kill each other is fun for the GM but not so much for the players.
The boss of chapter two (a CR10 lamia matriarch sorcerer — Xanesha) is pretty much impossible without a party specifically tailored to beat it. Especially since they use up a lot of resources fighting the flesh golem and faceless stalkers beforehand, not expecting such a tough fight. Needless to say, the third party failed here and since one the characters was a high-ranking soldier in the Magnimar army, he brought in the big guns which helped bring an end to the threat (although they didn't manage to kill the boss, just drive it off) with great losses once again.
The Sandpoint Devil is pretty hardcore in its official Pathfinder conversion. If you're planning on using it for a sidequest, make sure the party can handle it (run a quick simulation or something).

3. This is also mentioned in the book but try to impress on the players that goblins can be extremely dangerous and ruthless, especially in large numbers. It will save you the "I told you so" moments when party members die at their hands.

4. While chapter one is quite straightforward, the investigations in chapter two can quickly bring the party's progress to a halt. There's two things to do here; Firstly, follow the three clue rule (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule) by throwing in some extra breadcrumbs where there's too few. Secondly, having a DMPC can take care of cases where the party gets stumped by giving them a soft nudge in the right direction. The mystery part of this chapter is very fun though, so like it was pointed out above, you can emphasize this part a bit more.

5. There's not enough experience in the encounters. Even with buffed up encounters I was running, I had to throw in some extra quests to fill the experience needs of the characters. This is a good idea once they reach Magnimar, and especially before they take on the last boss of chapter two.

6. There's also plenty of NPCs which are viable companions for a short time. I needed to make one of my own though, since there had to be one character always connecting the story and the previous parties. The price of being an unforgiving GM, I suppose. :smallbiggrin:

I don't know how much is changed in the anniversary edition, but I'm looking forward to running chapter three in it.