How Do I Protect Against True Seeing?

[metabolicjosh]

So there is a boss that we have to fight next game, and he will destroy us!
So i'm thinking that i can kill him during the parley.
I will get him to say the Dread Word.

The caster speaks a single unique word of pure malevolence—a powerful utterance from the Dark Speech (see Chapter 2).
The word is so foul that it harms the very soul of one that hears it.
The utterance of a dread word causes one subject within range to take 1d3 points of Charisma drain.
The power of this spell protects the caster from the damaging effects of both hearing and knowing the word.
To attempt to speak this unique word without using this spell means instant death

So if i can use my 50 dip to make him swear the ancient draconic oath that binds your soul to you oath, to make him face me in single combat because I screwed him over-True-. And i use 50 Bluff to fake my spell in the oath,- with me as the target sadly - He repeats it and dies! So how do i protect against him knowing i'm casting a spell besides bluff?

I think he might have true sight but im not sure. So can anyone help me defeat a level 56 -noncaster- boss as a level 14 by myself.


Short notes-
How do i cover up my spell ?
How do i protect from him seeing my buffs?
What do you think will happen?

[metabolicjosh]

Oh he has super saves, ac, and sr! So is there anything that i could do if this fails?

[BRC]

So there is a boss that we have to fight next game, and he will destroy us!
So i'm thinking that i can kill him during the parley.
I will get him to say the Dread Word.

The caster speaks a single unique word of pure malevolence—a powerful utterance from the Dark Speech (see Chapter 2).
The word is so foul that it harms the very soul of one that hears it.
The utterance of a dread word causes one subject within range to take 1d3 points of Charisma drain.
The power of this spell protects the caster from the damaging effects of both hearing and knowing the word.
To attempt to speak this unique word without using this spell means instant death

So if i can use my 50 dip to make him swear the ancient draconic oath that binds your soul to you oath, to make him face me in single combat because I screwed him over-True-. And i use 50 Bluff to fake my spell in the oath,- with me as the target sadly - He repeats it and dies! So how do i protect against him knowing i'm casting a spell besides bluff?

I think he might have true sight but im not sure. So can anyone help me defeat a level 56 -noncaster- boss as a level 14 by myself.


Short notes-
How do i cover up my spell ?
How do i protect from him seeing my buffs?
What do you think will happen?
True seeing does not detect bluffs. I don't even think it detects magic, it just sees through illusions.

If he's a noncaster then he likely does not have Spellcraft, which is what he would need to identify your spell. With your Bluff skill you should be more than ready to trick him into uttering the Dark Speech.
The only question is if Dark Speech has some sort of visual manifestation, if so you'll need the Invisible Spell Metamagic feat (From either Cityscape or Comp Scoundrel, it's a +0 metamagic), and a good bluff check (Which you'll have).

As for your Buffs, he's probably expecting you to be wearing some magic items. Detect Magic alone can't differentiate, say, a Glibness spell from a basic Constitution bonus.

Really, you've got a good plan here unless he recognizes the Dread Word. Getting him to say the oath may be tricky, but you've got the Bluff and Diplomacy for it.


If it fails you die. That's really all that can be said. In dnd, a level 56 is basically a diety. This guy could be naked holding a fork and he would still rip your head off. You've got a good plan here, it bypasses his Saves, his Hit Points, and his Spell Resistance, instead going after his Sense Motive check. It is a perfect example of targeting his weaknesses with your strengths, and really it's the best plan you're going to get against this guy.

If it fails, run, preferably to another dimension.


And I checked. Unless you're going in under an lllusion of some sort, True Seeing won't pose any problem. It detects neither lies nor magic.

[metabolicjosh]

Ok thank you!

[gbprime]

Don't forget at that level, your target could have one or more Contingency spells on him. You'll probably want to follow that trick up with a heavy duty dispel from one of your allies, or else the guy you just tricked might spontaneously Revivify and Heal.

[BRC]

If he's using magic, he may have Detect Lies, but you can make a saving throw against that, OR just use clever wordplay.

"There is an ancient draconic oath that will bind me to your service (or whatever)." <-(True) "Repeat after me, [Dread Word]" <- You never said you were about to say the Oath, you just said to "repeat after me".

[whibla]

Except he will not be able to pronouce the Dread Word...

"The Dark Speech is extremely difficult to master. A special feat is required to speak even a single word of it correctly, for mortal tongues were not designed to utter these words of pure evil."

I love your idea, but even if he tries to duplicate your 'oath', unless he has taken the feat his pronunciation will be wrong, and his mangling of the word will have no effect on him.

Just my opinion ofc. I'd be amused if it did work, though...

As for concealing your spellcasting, there are a couple of feats that would do it, such as Deceptive Casting, though I have a feeling I've seen rules somewhere that imply that a 'simple' bluff or sleight of hand check might be able to do it too. Don't quote me on that though :smallredface:

[BRC]

Except he will not be able to pronouce the Dread Word...

"The Dark Speech is extremely difficult to master. A special feat is required to speak even a single word of it correctly, for mortal tongues were not designed to utter these words of pure evil."

I love your idea, but even if he tries to duplicate your 'oath', unless he has taken the feat his pronunciation will be wrong, and his mangling of the word will have no effect on him.

Just my opinion ofc. I'd be amused if it did work, though...

As for concealing your spellcasting, there are a couple of feats that would do it, such as Deceptive Casting, though I have a feeling I've seen rules somewhere that imply that a 'simple' bluff or sleight of hand check might be able to do it too. Don't quote me on that though :smallredface:
Except that the Dread Word kills anybody who Attempts to speak it, he dosn't need to succeed.

[kitcik]

Similarly, get him to say "Hastur."

"Whenever one who does not Worship Hastur says Hastur, there is a 75% chance that he will hear and send 10d3 byakhee to deal with them, if they are defeated then one of Hastur's avatars will appear to destroy the blasphemer."

Hastur is a 96 mile tall overdeity and should be able to deal with an L56.

[Bronk]

To answer the question posed by the title of the thread though, the only surefire ways to actually defeat 'true seeing' that I know of is to either hide successfully or use 'dust of disappearance', which would make you invisible and undetectable by magical means for 2d6 rounds.

[metabolicjosh]

Well look at the lawyer in the forum! Clever wordings are the ****.

[LordDrakulzen]

If words fail, Dust of choking and sneezing (cursed item) for sale at 2,400 gp. If he makes his Fort save, he's stunned for 5d4 rounds... if he makes the save he is stunned for 5d4 rounds... so there's always that :smallwink:

[Glimbur]

To answer the question posed by the title of the thread though, the only surefire ways to actually defeat 'true seeing' that I know of is to either hide successfully or use 'dust of disappearance', which would make you invisible and undetectable by magical means for 2d6 rounds.

There's a funnier way. Take Invisible Spell, a metamagic from Cityscape. Use it on Fog Cloud. It is not ideal because they still know something is up, but they cannot see you well enough to target you. Just make sure you can't see invisible yourself, or that you do it via Blindsight or something.

[NichG]

I think the flaw in this plan is getting him to agree to make a soul-binding oath of your choosing, not getting him to speak the word as part of the oath.

Specifically, my logic is as follows:

- If your Diplomacy can convince him to swear a soul-binding oath with you that he doesn't understand the meaning of (I mean, the Dread Word is going to be something he can't understand as anything other than itself), then you could have him swear any number of things - to be your eternal slave, to kill himself, whatever.

- If on the other hand you can't convince him to do so because of that bit of logic, there isn't a backup strategy to move to the second part of the plan, getting him to attempt to pronounce Dark Speech.

I have to admit, I really love the idea of having the Dread Word be a password on something or an answer to a riddle or something where you have to say it to proceed. Even better, tell people that its your name, so when people try to refer to you in conversation...

Bluff him that its your true name, and he can use it to control you?

[QuidEst]

Be warned- the DM may decide that taking 1d3 CHA drain applies to circumstance penalties to make sure he doesn't notice that. Still, you're allegedly binding your soul to his. If the DM wants to penalize, say you drop to one knee and bow your head while doing it.

Now, I think it's possible to get him to repeat it. After all, you just said it. Tell him that once he repeats it, you will be bound to your oath. Prepare a couple copies of it and get some temp CHA boosts, because he might ask you to repeat yourself. You can also reply that he need only try to say it, which is true.

[candycorn]

Attempting to utter a word of the Dark Speech always ends in immediate death for a speaker who is not trained in its dark power. Fortunately, it is impossible to make someone use the Dark Speech if he or she is unwilling, because the language's pronunciation is so exacting.
Emphasis mine.

This means that the target must be willing to use the Dark Speech, or your attempt is impossible.

Provided the guy knows of dark speech (not a hard knowledge: Religion check), then it would be very difficult to pull this over.

Bluff can do great things, but it generally cannot directly contradict what the target knows for a fact to be true. Therefore, even if the guy believes you, that wouldn't change that he knows that repeating after you would kill him.

That makes the task of making him willing much more difficult. Even charm person couldn't do it, as it would be harmful to the recipient.