Pathfinder Help - Stealthy Mage

[thedrowranger]

Hey guys you've been a huge help in the past. My group has decided to give Pathfinder a chance and so this will be my first time playing in the world. Since I'm not very familiar with the builds and interworkings I was gonna see if you guys would have any suggestions.

I want to play a magic user of some sort but focus on anything that will be helpful when it comes to stealth. The campaign is all about being able to con your way or sneak your way out of situations.

We're making lvl 5 characters with a 20 point build. Any thoughts?

[grarrrg]

I want to play a magic user of some sort but focus on anything that will be helpful when it comes to stealth. The campaign is all about being able to con your way or sneak your way out of situations.

We're making lvl 5 characters with a 20 point build. Any thoughts?

Level 5, Magic+Stealth, got it.

Brace yourselves:
(no particular order)

Rogue, while not a caster, can be handy for at least 2 levels. The Camoflage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-talents/camouflage-ex) Rogue Talent can provide a +4 (untyped) Stealth bonus, and the Fast Stealth (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-talents/fast-stealth-ex) talent lets you Stealth at full speed.
If you take the Chameleon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/chameleon) archetype you get a 'pool' of Stealth Points based on ranks in Bluff. And at 3rd level gets a Favored Terrain (which grants various benefits while in that terrain, including +2 Stealth). And you can always take 10 on Stealth in your Favored Terrain.

Sandman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/sandman) Bard, 2/3 Arcane caster, 6 skills/level. Basically you are halfway to Rogue. Gains a bonus equal to half level on Bluff/Sleight of Hand/Stealth

Umbral (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/umbral) Shadow (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/shadow-bloodline) Bloodline (can be gotten either through Sorcerer Levels, or Eldrtich Heritage feats). Umbral gives 1-round bonuses to Stealth checks, and Shadow Bloodline gives Hide in Plain sight as level 9.

Saboteur (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/gnome/saboteur-alchemist-gnome) Gnome Alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist) 2/3 'caster' 4 Skills/level, can use their 'mutagen' to get a 1/2 level bonus on Stealth checks, and gain a climb speed. Can eventually get a full level bonus to Stealth, and Hide in Plain sight.
*NOTE: Alchemists do not normally have Stealth as a Class skill. Mutli-classing and or Traits can fix this*

A Heretic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo---inquisitor-archetypes/heretic) Inquisitor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor) 2/3 Divine caster 6 Skills/level. Add's WIS to Stealth/Bluff checks. You can take Domains or Inquisitions. The Heresy Inquisition lets you roll twice>take best for Stealth checks (WIS/day, also works on Bluff and Diplomacy).
Or you can take the Night (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/darkness-domain/night) Sub-Domain (Darkness main) for limited rounds of Invisibility 3+WIS/day


Granted you start at level 5, so PrC's are not yet available, but some are worth consideration.
Horizon Walker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/horizon-walker), no casting, 6 Skills/level. 1st level grants a Favored Terrain (which provides, among other things) a +2 Stealth bonus when in that Terrain). At 2nd you can grant nearby allies a +2 Bonus on Stealth (among other bonuses) in your Favored Terrain. And you can take Terrain Mastery > Forest for a +4 Competence bonus on Stealth

And while it doesn't directly offer much for Stealth, you may wind up qualifying for the Arcane Trickster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/arcane-trickster) PrC. Full casting, 4 Skills/level, and Sneak Attack bonus.

I'm sure there is also a lot of Race options with Stealth bonuses now that the ARG is out

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Also Arcane Trickster can be a good choice if you are going to be playing to mid teen levels or higher.

[cZak]

The other class suggestions are really good. I'll keep them in mind for my next builds...

Since its Pathfinder & if your DM allows them, just find a trait (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits)that makes stealth a class skill. That way you don't lose any caster levels.

[Paul H]

Hi

Just play a vanilla Gnome or Halfling Bard. Small creatures get +4 stealth. Halflings also get bonus to Dex & Cha, (Stealth is Dex based).

Or just check out some of the Sorceror Bloodlines

Thanks
Paul H

[GreenZ]

Do you want Magic? Do you want power? Do you want out of combat skills as much as in-combat ability? Do you want to still retain the ability to avoid 'problematic people' and talk your way through any social interaction? Then you may want to be a Use Magic Device Rogue 'Mystic Theurge'!

As a 5th level UMD Rogue 'Mystic Theurge' with 18+ Charisma, 5 ranks in UMD, Skill Focus/Magical Aptitude, and a few other bonuses such as traits or items you can succeed UMD to use any wand even on a 1 (so long as you have 19 or more total in UMD)! Add in False Casting from Inner Sea Magic and nobody will ever doubt that you are truly a powerful 'Mystic Theurge'!*

You get any spell you can find in a wand of both divine and arcane types, have more 'spell slots' than any other caster**, still have a strong emphasis on stealth and other skills including charisma based skills, gain Evasion and other great abilities like Uncanny Dodge, and Rouge Talents to improve your abilities or to actually cast spells with Minor and Major Magic! All for the low price of becoming a lying, money grubbing Rogue GREAT AND POWERFUL 'Mystic Theurge'!***

* Unless anyone ever makes a great Spellcraft check, Sense Motive Check, or finds out the truth in some other manner.

** UMD does not actually give spell slots, please consult your local priest if any spell slots appear after using UMD.

*** UMD is not responsible for any delusions of grandeur, grave expenditures buying or crafting wands, or any physical harm from real casters finding out the truth caused by extended use of UMD. Extended use of UMD may cause unintended side effects including delusions of grandeur, grave expenditures buying or crafting wands, or physical harm from real casters finding out the truth caused by extended use of UMD. UMD is not right for everyone, please contact your local priest before any extended uses of UMD.

Become a UMD 'Mystic Theurge' today! :smallbiggrin:

[Dayaz]

Do you want Magic? Do you want power? Do you want out of combat skills as much as in-combat ability? Do you want to still retain the ability to avoid 'problematic people' and talk your way through any social interaction? Then you may want to be a Use Magic Device Rogue 'Mystic Theurge'!

As a 5th level UMD Rogue 'Mystic Theurge' with 18+ Charisma, 5 ranks in UMD, Skill Focus/Magical Aptitude, and a few other bonuses such as traits or items you can succeed UMD to use any wand even on a 1 (so long as you have 19 or more total in UMD)! Add in False Casting from Inner Sea Magic and nobody will ever doubt that you are truly a powerful 'Mystic Theurge'!*

You get any spell you can find in a wand of both divine and arcane types, have more 'spell slots' than any other caster**, still have a strong emphasis on stealth and other skills including charisma based skills, gain Evasion and other great abilities like Uncanny Dodge, and Rouge Talents to improve your abilities or to actually cast spells with Minor and Major Magic! All for the low price of becoming a lying, money grubbing Rogue GREAT AND POWERFUL 'Mystic Theurge'!***

* Unless anyone ever makes a great Spellcraft check, Sense Motive Check, or finds out the truth in some other manner.

** UMD does not actually give spell slots, please consult your local priest if any spell slots appear after using UMD.

*** UMD is not responsible for any delusions of grandeur, grave expenditures buying or crafting wands, or any physical harm from real casters finding out the truth caused by extended use of UMD. Extended use of UMD may cause unintended side effects including delusions of grandeur, grave expenditures buying or crafting wands, or physical harm from real casters finding out the truth caused by extended use of UMD. UMD is not right for everyone, please contact your local priest before any extended uses of UMD.

Become a UMD 'Mystic Theurge' today! :smallbiggrin:

This made me smile lol. I would do this just to say I did hahaha...

IF you do this, you may look into the feat that lets you Dual-wield wands (my mind is blank)

[Ravens_cry]

Can you use 3rd party races?
High Goblin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/jon-brazer-enterprises/high-goblin-jbe), besides a +8 to stealth from racial bonuses alone (+4 dex, +4 small, + 2 racial) gets +2 Wisdom, which means . . . Empyreal bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/empyreal) sorcerer!

[GreenZ]

This made me smile lol. I would do this just to say I did hahaha...

IF you do this, you may look into the feat that lets you Dual-wield wands (my mind is blank)

Thanks. It's one of my favorite PF characters I've ever played. :smallbiggrin:

And I know the feat you speak of, but sadly it is... THIRD PARTY (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/open-design/general-feats/two-wand-technique) *dun dun dun!*

So yeah, dual wielding wands may not work if you GM doesn't allow 3rd party stuff. [/off topic]

[Dayaz]

Is it? I could have sworn I saw it somewhere in Complete Arcane or Complete Mage >.>

[Andvare]

Is it? I could have sworn I saw it somewhere in Complete Arcane or Complete Mage >.>

But then it is not really Pathfinder, now is it?


GreenZ, that was hilarious, especially the spoilered part.


On to the On Topic, a Duergar (gives you invisibility (self) 1/day) with the feat Lingering Invisibility, which gives you concealment for as many rounds as that invisibility was up in minutes, which is quite handy.
Duergar isn't all that well suited for a wizard, and terrible for a sorcerer, so it might not be worth it in the long run.

[avr]

3rd level spells are quite good. If nothing else it lets you use Silent Spell on 2nd level spells. Therefore, if starting at level 5 a wizard may suit your purposes better than a sorcerer or a 2/3 caster.

Specifically, look up mage of the veil (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/illusion/mage-of-the-veil-qadira). It may be unavailable in the area your campaign is set in, check with your DM.

[Paul H]

Hi

Just remember Mystic Theurge requires ability to cast 2nd lvl spells in two classes, so 5th lvl MT is at least 11th lvl!

If you want Wand Wielder concept, then just go the Synthesist Archetype. You can have +17 UMD at FIRST level!

Sure, your spells are mainly Conjuration or protective Abjuration, but you're also party Tank/Damage Dealer.

And yes, you can use one Evolution Point to add +8 Racial Bonus to Stealth if you really, really need it! :smallbiggrin:

Synthesists are a Summoner Archetype, where you 'wear' your eidolon, much like Power Armour.
Summoners are in Adv Player's Guide
Synthesist Archetypes are from Ultimate Magic

Thanks
Paul H
Edit:

Example

Halfling Synthesist 5
(In Eidolon 'Armour')

Str 14 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18

AC 23 (No Buffs/ no Armour items or spells)
HP 63 (33 plus 30 Temp)
BAB +5
Saves F 5 R 7 W 7
Darkvision
Evasion
Move 20'
Fly 20' (Perfect) [No WIngs]

Stealth +16 (No Skill points spent)
UMD +16 (1 SP spent, class skill)

Spells: 6/5/3 (Unlimited uses 6 Cantrips/day)

Cantrips Known. Acid Splash, Det Magic, Guidance, Message, Prestigitation, Light

Lvl 1. Mage Armour, Lssr Rejuvenate Eidolon, Fthr Fall, PFE
Lvl 2. Summon Eidolon, See Invisibility, Glitterdust

You've still got 5 Feats to choose

Is this build OK?

[GreenZ]

Hi

Just remember Mystic Theurge requires ability to cast 2nd lvl spells in two classes, so 5th lvl MT is at least 11th lvl!

I think someone failed a Sense Motive check when reading my post. =3


Note that as a Synthesist your Eidolon doesn't get skills or feats (meaning he much use your rubbish 3 feats and 2 +int skills) and the Synthesis doesn't get the Eidolon's saves meaning only a 1/1/4 base.

Also the Eidolon only 'levels' 3/4th the summoner's level; you'd use the Eidolon's 4 BAB and only 24 temp HP (using half HD + Con I'm assuming).

Even though as a synthesis you may never be seen if you want to and generally rock combat oriented encounters; in a more socially interactive game, one where you might want to bluff or talk your way out of situations or pass through lively areas unnoticed, a Synthesist will stick out like a sore thumb.