Fighter Options (PF)

[Valdras]

Hey guys,

My group and I are playing Kingmaker, and I was shanghied by my DM into the role of a fighter.

My characters stats are:
Human
STR: 18
DEX: 12
CON: 16
INT: 14
WIS: 11
CHA: 7
Starting Feats: Power attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus: Greatsword.

I had originally planned on making a Magus, and my stats were a bit different and my third feat was WP: Bastard sword, but I kinda like the smash things way that Fighters work.

Now last session we finally leveled up, and I was wondering if it would be good to multiclass some Barbarian levels, or just stay a straight fighter?

The DM has allowed me to select a Archetype if I want, even though I'm level 2, and has also allowed me to change the Weapon focus feat if I wanted to, incase i needed to change it.

I was thinking of getting intimidating prowess and dazzling display at level 3, (another fighter level for the extra feat) I just wasn't sure if I should go straight fighter or dip into barbarian.

Anyone have any opinions? Oh and we are allowed all offical pathfinder sources, but no 3.5 or third party stuff.

[Bhaakon]

Even with intimidating prowess, that 7 Cha is going to kill your intimidate. Other than that, though, you're options are pretty well open. There's nothing wrong with taking barbarian levels, since rage is such a huge boon, or you could stick with fighter and go the maneuver route.

[Valdras]

I figured with the raging it would give me a +6 to intimidate, and I would drop my first stat up into charisma, to lower that a bit too.

I just like the idea of smashing things and smashing them well.

[Drelua]

Can I ask what exactly made you switch classes? Fighters and Magi really fill the same role, dealing damage, so I don't see why you'd have to switch.

Anyway, since that doesn't actually answer your question, I love the Brawler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/brawler) archetype. Oddly enough, they make much better unarmed fighters than the Unarmed Fighter archetype, although greatsword is probably a more optimal choice. Since it seems like you'd rather just plain ruin peoples' day with a large sharp object, the Two-Handed Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/two-handed-fighter) is probably worth looking at, mostly for double your strength modifier on damage rolls (sometimes) and better power attack returns of you go all the way to level 15.

As for feats, you should probably drop weapon focus since it's such a small bonus and so you can pick up, say, someone else's magical greataxe without feeling like you wasted a feat completely. I'm not sure what to replace it with since I don't really play this sort of character very much, but I'm sure someone else will have some good ideas.

[marcielle]

Depending on how far you are taking the game, Mobile Fighter archetype might be good, as it is pretty much the only way you are going to get pounce( albeit a nerfed version) without a level in Synthesist.

[Grail]

Really don't underestimate a good intimidate. You might only have a CHA of 7, but if you take Intimidating Prowess it's not too bad. Intimidate to Demoralize is one of the best low level ranged attacks a Fighter can make, especially given that it can be done with sword in hand and that the skill check DC is so low. Synergy is great with a spell caster if they delay until after you do the intimidate to hit with a save or X spell.

Once you've got Intimidating Prowess, then take Dazzling Display if you think you'll be running up against lots of mooks.

The good thing is with these feats as bonus Fighter feats is that you can drop them at later levels when they aren't so good anymore.

But I've had plenty of success with this.

Also, as mentioned, the Two-Weapon Fighter archtype is pretty handy. Especially if you think you'll be doing a lot of charging. Overhand Chop with Furious Focus from 3rd level on is pretty strong.

[grarrrg]

I figured with the raging it would give me a +6 to intimidate, and I would drop my first stat up into charisma, to lower that a bit too.

Don't do this.
You are much better off putting it in STR, CON, or WIS.
And if you really want to bump Intimidate then put it in STR. You'll get a similar Intimidate boost as you would from dumping it in CHA (+1/2), but it will also boost your to-hit and damage.

Friends don't let Friends un-dump Dump Stats.


Really don't underestimate a good intimidate. You might only have a CHA of 7, but if you take Intimidating Prowess it's not too bad. Intimidate to Demoralize is one of the best low level ranged attacks a Fighter can make, especially given that it can be done with sword in hand and that the skill check DC is so low. ...

Once you've got Intimidating Prowess, then take Dazzling Display if you think you'll be running up against lots of mooks.

I am more partial to Cornugon Smash (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/cornugon-smash-combat) than Dazzling Display.
Although both have their uses.
Cornugon is much better 1vs1, as it is a Free Action.
Whereas Dazzling Display is, as mentioned, better vs groups. It takes a Full-Round action, so you won't be doing much else that turn.

While I prefer Cornugon for it's ease of use, I must give a special mention to Shatter Defenses (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat---final) (which has Dazzling Display as a Pre-req).
Any Intimidated opponent is considered Flat-Footed to you. Add a Multiclass with Rogue for some Sneak Attack and go to town (I recommend the Thug (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/thug) archetype).

[Blyte]

go with an int of 13 and a wis of 10 (or 12 int if you aren't planning on going for the combat expertise feat lines) so you don't have to have such a crummy charisma.

also there are feats that can switch str to your intimidate stat, as well as different races that do well with intimidate like half-orcs. I don't know them off-hand but I know they get some racial traits, feats, etc that make them intimidate machines.

If you opt for half-orc and take Grarrrg's multi-class to rogue option, there is a new archetype for a 2-handed half-orc rogue, in advanced races, that smashes pretty well, and is all about charging around and doing big attacks with d8 sneak dice.

[Valdras]

Thanks everyone for the replys so far

Blyte: I can't change the stats unfortunately, we have already played a fair bit of the kingmaker campaign and they are set...

Grarrrg: So multiclass into rogue instead of barbarian?

Grail: Two-Weapon Fighter? Do you mean Two-Handed Fighter? I did look at that and it looks pretty good. I do intend to go the Intimidating Prowess -> Dazzling Display -> Shatter defences route, I just wish there was a way to make it not be a full round.

I mean, I looked at Gladiator and was wondering if it would be worth getting Hero's Display (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hero-s-display-combat-performance) and Performing Combatant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/performing-combatant-combat)... I'm guessing the answer is probably not as it is a CHA check and my CHA is 7... lol.

Drelua: It wasn't my choice to switch to fighter for the first level, that was DM enforced as apparently the party was going to be too squishy, and in the fight against the Mite on the mutated tick thing, it would of been a party wipe if not for the 2 extra HP and 4 extra AC i had due to a fighter wearing armour, I forgive my DM for forcing it. I decided to not go Magus for the second level as I wanted heavy armour, and didn't want the 50% arcane spell failure.


I am kinda wavering between a Sword and Board fighter and a Greatsword fighter. I think it might be more fun to be a unstoppable tank, and take Antagonize (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize)... maybe with a tower shield. But I think that would need the Tower Shield fighter or Armour Master Archetypes... Gah. I thought making a fighter would be much simpler... lol

Edit: Oh and if I was going to use Antagonize, should I then get a reach weapon, so when they charge me, I get a free AoO as they charge? and maybe take Phalanx Soldier, with a Lucerne Hammer and a Tower Shield...

[Drelua]

Antagonize would combine pretty well with a reach weapon, especially if you use a guisarme so they you can trip them before they get to you. That way they'll hit the ground 10 feet away from you and provoke another AoO by standing up, so you should probably take Combat Reflexes if you go that route. The Polearm Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/polearm-master) archetype should be good for that too. The Lunge feat would also be good once you qualify for it; the AC penalty doesn't matter if no one can get within 15 feet of you without hitting the ground and ending their turn a move action away from you. Hopefully your DM won't mind you switching fighting styles partway through the game and taking an archetype that would already have changed something. If he does, remind him that he owes you for making you switch characters. :smallwink:

[grarrrg]

Grarrrg: So multiclass into rogue instead of barbarian?

...I do intend to go the Intimidating Prowess -> Dazzling Display -> Shatter defences route, I just wish there was a way to make it not be a full round.

Well, as far as Rogue goes, if you take the Rake (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/rake) archetype (instead of Thug, you cannot take both), you can choose to do 1d6 less Sneak Attack damage to get a Free Intimidate.
This would allow you to continuously 'loop' your bonuses.
Target is Shaken > due to Shatter Defenses they are considered Flat Footed, which means you can Sneak Attack them > Sneak Attacking them gives you free Intimidate Checks which make them Shaken > repeat.

Starting 'the loop' would be a minor problem, you would have to get them Shaken. Options are Intimidate as normal, Dazzling Display, Surprise/Flank them to Sneak Attack, or Cornugon Smashing.

Even with most of your levels in Fighter you will be stretched for feats, so going Shatter Defenses AND Cornugon Smash may not be advisable. Also, if you take 2 (or more) levels of Rogue, you will probably want to use your Rogue Talent on an extra Feat.



The Lunge feat would also be good once you qualify for it; the AC penalty doesn't matter if no one can get within 15 feet of you without hitting the ground and ending their turn a move action away from you.

Lunge only gives +5ft. reach until the end of your turn. So Lunge can NOT be used to make AoO's.

[Akal Saris]

I'm running a Kingmaker game right now and the King PC is a two-handed archetype fighter. He went for Power Attack, Cleave, Furious Focus, EWP: Nodachi, Weapon Focus Nodachi, then Cleaving Finish, Weapon Spec (Nodachi), Vital Strike, and a homebrew leader feat for Kingmaker.

He's quite the terror in combat, to be honest. I'd recommend his build any day :smalltongue:

[Grail]

Grail: Two-Weapon Fighter? Do you mean Two-Handed Fighter? I did look at that and it looks pretty good. I do intend to go the Intimidating Prowess -> Dazzling Display -> Shatter defences route, I just wish there was a way to make it not be a full round.


Yeah, 2handed fighter. Cut me some slack though... I've been at home now almost a week sick as a dog, and I've failed six fortitude saves in a row. :smalleek:

[grarrrg]

Grail: Two-Weapon Fighter? Do you mean Two-Handed Fighter? I did look at that and it looks pretty good. I do intend to go the Intimidating Prowess -> Dazzling Display -> Shatter defences route, I just wish there was a way to make it not be a full round.Yeah, 2handed fighter. Cut me some slack though... I've been at home now almost a week sick as a dog, and I've failed six fortitude saves in a row. :smalleek:

Maybe he REALLY meant Two-2-Hand Weapon Fighter!
Dual wield Greatswords!

MOAR BIG SORDZ! MOAR BIG DAMAGZ!

[Dayaz]

Maybe he REALLY meant Two-2-Hand Weapon Fighter!
Dual wield Greatswords!

MOAR BIG SORDZ! MOAR BIG DAMAGZ!

*cough* Monkey Grip and use one normal sized greatsword and a small greatsword for lower penalties (has done it for the lulz b4)

EDIT: Since the normal sized greatsword would be considered a one handed and the smaller a light weapon >:D

[Drelua]

Lunge only gives +5ft. reach until the end of your turn. So Lunge can NOT be used to make AoO's.

Oh, yeah, I, uh, definitely knew that.:smallredface:

What I meant to (read: should have) said was use enlarge person or any other method to enhance your reach. Then the rest makes sense.

[Valdras]

Maybe he REALLY meant Two-2-Hand Weapon Fighter!
Dual wield Greatswords!

MOAR BIG SORDZ! MOAR BIG DAMAGZ!

That's easy enough, take 2 levels in Titan Mauler Barbarian... hello monkey grip. Sorry I mean Jotungrip.

[grarrrg]

What I meant to (read: should have) said was use enlarge person or any other method to enhance your reach. Then the rest makes sense.

Well, my Enlarge Person shenanigans on an otherwise non-caster don't usually kick in until around level 6.
And he'd need to retroactively take Unbreakable (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/unbreakable) Fighter (for the feats).
AND his DM would have to allow a setting specific PrC.
AND...

...you get the idea.

[Drelua]

Well, my Enlarge Person shenanigans on an otherwise non-caster don't usually kick in until around level 6.
And he'd need to retroactively take Unbreakable (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/unbreakable) Fighter (for the feats).
AND his DM would have to allow a setting specific PrC.
AND...

...you get the idea.

Yeah, Enlarge Person was really just an example. I'd recommend a Psychic Warrior dip if it weren't for the 11 WIS. Oh well, the reach thing isn't too important. It's not like normal reach weapon trippers aren't good enough; all it takes is a 5 foot step to be far enough for them to be a move action away from you, letting you repeat the process nearly indefinitely. Not that this is really news to anyone that's read Order of the Stick...

[Valdras]

We are only allowed Offical pathfinder stuff, and not psionics or guns. Neither of these exist in our DMs fantasy world.

Grarrrg: Is that PrC Stalwart Defender? Because I have been looking at that too.

Either that or maybe a mix of Armor Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/armor-master) and Armored Hulk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes/armored-hulk)..

Did anyone have any opinions on the Phalanx Soldier with a Lucerne Hammer and a Tower Shield or trying to go Gladiator and Performace Combat stuff?

The DM has allowed me to retro a Archetype/s if I want/need to.

[Valdras]

Also, If a do a Trip with a reach weapon, and I'm not threatened by the enemy, do they get a AoO for me not having improved trip?

[Drelua]

Also, If a do a Trip with a reach weapon, and I'm not threatened by the enemy, do they get a AoO for me not having improved trip?

Nope, they can't reach you so they can't hit you.

Of course, this strategy works a lot better with Combat Reflexes since you're using an AoO to trip them, and another AoO to hit them as they get up, so you should probably ask your DM if you can tweak your stats a bit to get the 13 DEX you'll need for a tripper. Just remember that the AoO resolves before the action that provoked, meaning you can't trip someone as they're standing up. Unfortunately.

Edit: I should also point out that tripping without Improved Trip only provokes from the target, not any other enemies.

[grarrrg]

We are only allowed Offical pathfinder stuff, and not psionics or guns. Neither of these exist in our DMs fantasy world.

Grarrrg: Is that PrC Stalwart Defender? Because I have been looking at that too.

No on Stalwart Defender.
And to reiterate NO ON STALWART DEFENDER!

I was referring to the Living Monolith (http://www.d20pfsrd.com)
(and I was thinking of a different PrC regarding 'needing' to take Unbreakable Fighter, please disregard that, it shall be edited).

Living Monolith is awesome for a Full Bab build.
It has fairly easy entry reqs:
5 Bab (no problem)
3 Skill points spent (VERY easy)
Must speak Sphinx (easy enough, +1 Skill point spent)
2 "meh" feats (Endurance and Iron Will)
1000 gold (fairly cheap)

It has Full Bab and d8HD
And in exchange for just _1_ level of the class you get _3_/day uses of SWIFT Action Enlarge Person (self-only) at a Caster level of _6_ (6 minutes duration).
You also get +2 on saves vs. various effects.

2nd level you automatically stabilize, and you gain Immunity to Bleed Damage (straight Damage AND Ability drain!).

After that the class gets much more "meh" and you should feel free to stop taking levels.

The main downside is that it is fairly setting/region specific, so you may not be able to get your DM to allow it.


trying to go Gladiator and Performace Combat stuff?

The DM has allowed me to retro a Archetype/s if I want/need to.

Don't go Gladiator/Performance. It's not really worth it.

[Valdras]

I got told by my DM that no, Living Monolith won't be allowed, simply because I won't be able to find one or a Sphinx to help me get it :(.

Oh well... I decided to go with a Armor Master Fighter/ Armored Hulk Barbarian, with a Lucerne Hammer. I'll probably just go from fighter to barbarian each level.

edit: Also, is there a way for a human to have 2 favoured classes? We are allowed traits.