Hashing out my first homebrew concept

[Theroc]

Well, after a short little exchange with our own Waker(in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248999)), I decided to try jumpin' in and working on a homebrewed creation. Now, I didn't have a particularly concrete concept in mind, so I'm not positive which angle to go at this. The concept is a little bit like the way Highlander's work, or like the Barghest and Nabassu's methods of advancement.

Essentially, I wanted to design a mechanic which allowed for growth and advancement directly from the results of ending a life. For example, the Barghest or Nabassu consumes the soul, if I understand correctly... and advances this way. Now, I don't want to cleave directly to this mechanic as I want this to be more diverse, and be affected *by* the victim.

I'm unsure whether I want to design a class (be it PrC or Base Class) or make this some form of template, but I'd like for it to allow for something like this:

Bob and his band of adventurers slay a hydra. Before the hydra's spirit leaves the body and goes wherever hydra spirits go, Bob 'touches' the essence of the hydra, absorbing a fraction of the power that hydra had. After the encounter, Bob finds his wounds healing on their own.(He gained Fast Healing 1).

Now, if I leave it unrestricted, it would obviate experience for that character(making it unsuitable for a PC unless all PC's selected this class/template). Since I want this to be available to PC's, it would need to be limited somehow.

Does anyone have any advice for what direction to go with this concept or general advice for me when working on this concept?

[Just to Browse]

Well I'm sure someone is going to shamelessly plug their own classes here (of which I have none), but if anything I would do this:

Make a list of "Beast Powers". Things like this would be Fast Healing X, Fire Resist X, gaze attack. You'd want them to come in Tiers, and for each power to be tied to a creature type or archetype (Demons would all have See in Darkness, but you couldn't kill a dryad and expect to get Otto's irresistible dance.)
When a character of your Class kills a creature, they gain an appropriate "Beast Power" of that creature's type/archetype.

... I don't know why I made that a list...

The "Beast Powers" obviates the need for at-the-table translation of abilities and accidentally picking something up that's totally OP on its own.

As a "hotfix" to your desire, you could do something like the totemist (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Totemist_%283.5e_Class%29) (that's a wizard-level class, though, so you may want to think twice about using it verbatim) and give the player a flaw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) something along the lines of "You cannot choose a given totemist power until you've killed a creature of that type". That would give the player an extra feat to spend, ensure your desired roleplaying stuff, and I'm about 70% sure it's balanced.

The only way you'd get the exact cinematic effect of Bob touching the hydra and then his wounds healing is if the players leveled up then and there and his PC decided the Hydra was the best choice at that level. So YMMV. Enjoy.

[Theroc]

So, you feel this would be better as a separate class than a template?

[TuggyNE]

So, you feel this would be better as a separate class than a template?

Yeah, this is almost certainly best done as a class.

My thoughts on it would be that you keep track of whatever monsters you kill, and when you level up you can select one or more trimmed-down abilities from the list. Alternatively, each level-up you get one or more tokens to spend once you've killed things (or slots to fit the new abilities into, or whatever); this makes things a little smoother in play, at the cost of a new leveling subsystem.

Either way, you're likely to want to make a fairly good list of example abilities, and figure out how to deal with overlap, repeat kills, and so forth. (Also: some abilities are extremely game-changing, like Regeneration, which suddenly turns lethal into non-lethal, or Incorporeal.)

[Milo v3]

I've made an ability for a class which functioned similiar to that:

Gifts of the Flesh (Ex): A Tainted Scion slowly learns how to adapt the biology of other to itself. Upon reaching 13th level, once per day when he uses the Phage ability on a creature of 10 or less HD than the Tainted Scion he can select an extraordinary ability from that creature that is on the available list. The Tainted Scion gains this extraordinary ability while Embracing Carnage.

This ability can grant up to 5 extraordinary abilities, any excess uses of this ability replace a previous extraordinary ability. The bonuses or effects granted by these extraordinary abilities don't stack with each other or your own abilities. The DM can add any extraordinary abilities he wishes to the list of available.

List of Available Extraordinary Abilities:

All Round Vision
Amorphous
Amphibious
Attach
Bleed
Blindsense
Capsize
Channel Resistance
Compression
Disease
Distraction
Fast Healing (This becomes Fast Healing 5 if the creatures was higher than 4, but remains as it is if lower than 5).
Fast Swallow
Ferocity
Hold Breath
Jet
Keen Scent
Rock Catching
Scent
Sound Mimicry
Tremorsense
Waterbreathing

[Waker]

The others have made some good suggestions so far. Were I to make a class like that I would make a list of "Beast" powers as well as "Class" powers for when you kill NPCs (or PCs) with class levels. The thing you'll want to determine is how long can one maintain the powers and the mechanic used to gain the powers.
For power retention I'd say you have three options: you might be able to maintain a power for a set length of time, you could retain the "knowledge" of the power like a spellbook and prepare it every day or you retain the power until it is replaced. The set length of time is problematic because if a character is "between" powers he is at a distinct disadvantage compared to other players. The spellbook method can be problematic because you'll constantly have characters attempting to allow them to have acquired powers as their backstory. My favorite method would be the retain powers until replaced method.
In addition to making a list of generic powers you might also assign a value to them. Something like Fire Resist 5 is equal to 1 Body point (or whatever you call it) while Fast Healing 1 is equal to 2 Body points. Then you could say a character is limited to a maximum amount of Body points based on level and some attribute, Con or Wis seem the most appropriate.
Ah, almost forgot about the acquiring mechanic. You might decide that a character can gain the powers when hit with a special ability during combat (like a Soul Eaters drain attack) or after combat a special act might be required such as consuming part of the corpse or making a special Heal/Knowledge check. You could even have both. Say during combat you can temporarily gain the power by nipping a bit of their essence, but if you want to keep it, you'll have to examine the corpse.
Ah, I almost forgot part deux. I recall you saying that you wanted to possibly gain HD, saves and BAB. Rather than acquiring a power, a character might instead opt to gain one of the aforementioned traits. In order for a character to gain extra stats, the target creatures need to have a minimum amount themselves, though there is a cap on how much you can gain. Also make the extra HD, saves, BAB be a type of bonus that would exclude a character from using it to meet the requirements of feats or PrCs.
As a character levels up, the strength of the powers they can gain increase. Say a level 3 Highlander kills a Wyrmling Red Dragon. His list of abilities might include: Breath Attack, Fire Resistance, Natural Weapon Bite, Natural Weapon Claw. Alternatively he could choose to increase his HD by a maximum of 7 (though your level cap at the time might limit it at gaining 1 HD), increase your BAB by a maximum of 7 (though your level cap might limit it to X)...and you get the idea.

[BarroomBard]

I think one approach to the class would be to approach it like a spell casting class.

Each level, they can have only a certain number of stolen powers absorbed at once. If they try to steal another of the same level, they have to lose one.

For example, our Highlander Bob is level 2, so he can have 4 level 0 Souls (basic things like vision types, swim or climb speeds, etc) and 2 level 1 Souls (weak natural weapons, a bonus from skills the target was trained in, some supernatural abilities, etc). After killing the Hydra, and a handful of orcs, Bob is regenerating his health like a beast, seeing in the dark, and has mastered the orcish language. Now, he and his party slay a bear, and Bob steals the bear's soul. Suddenly Bob's nails lengthen and sharpen as he gains a swipe attack, but the Orc scholar's soul escapes his grasp, and he loses the orc's knowledge.

[Theroc]

Hm... thanks for all the advice guys. One point of clarification for Waker: I think allowing it to add HD directly, as an extra die might be a cause for confusion since that would be adding racial hit dice or class levels in between level-ups, increasing the 'Highlander's' ECL... which could get crazy with things like Bloodlines(if anyone ever uses those except to abuse Meldshaper and Initiator levels) and with initiators and the like, if nothing else, as it'd also grant feats and saving throw bonuses and the like.

For the HD portion, I'd meant more like, increasing your HD by a step. So, say the Highlander for example gets a d8 HD, and slays a dragon who has a D12 HD. He can bring his HD to a 10 instead of d8, thus demonstrating that he acquired a portion of the dragon's vital essence.

So far I think I am leaning towards making it 'level' similar to spellcasting /maneuvers simply because if I am going to make this class, my aim is very, very high tier 3 or low-mid tier 2, so I'll want the strengths to represent that.

I favor higher power campaigns(for me D&D is an escape fantasy where my characters have the power to change their situation/status), and I've noticed it seems nearly impossible for a non-spellcasting class to breach tier 3... but I think this concept has the potential to do something like that.

I'm unsure if that affects anyone's advice, but I figured it might. I'm definitely not a fan of having to 'prepare' traits, as I want this to be a more 'natural' thing. It's not something the character selects. If anyone has played Skyrim, I feel it'd be most thematically like that... except the possibilities are expanded(having to use an entire dragon's soul just to learn a single 'spell' seems incredibly lame to me, which was why I used a mod which enhanced that mechanic immediately on finding it.) Basically, they touch the soul and gain something from that brief contact... but they don't in character go, "I want to gain some dragon's scales because I'm tired of getting hacked open with swords."

Do you guys feel I should make this a base class or a PrC? I'd like to make this as open as possible for those who want it, and anything that doesn't grant spellcasting levels as is will already make it far less attractive to spellcasters, but I don't want to exclude any other concepts.

[Theroc]

Anyone have any advice as to whether to make this a base class or a PrC?

[Milo v3]

I'd say a base class as it has more gradular progression and allows for more control on balance. Also it will allow you to spread your progression of gaining powerful effects.

[Theroc]

Can anyone help me find the thread that shows one how to table things?

[TuggyNE]

Can anyone help me find the thread that shows one how to table things?

Try Guide to Tablemaking, linked in Notable Threads.

[Milo v3]

Okay, this is how you make one. Here is a template:
[qTable="head"]Title1|Title2
Content|Content
Content|Content[/Table]

If you remove the q it should look like this:
Title1|Title2
Content|Content
Content|Content

[Theroc]

Hm... just had another idea for this concept for balancing, but I think it might be a bit less precisely controlled and more in the hands of the DM. I think I've got the basic concept down so I'll try to work up a WiP so I don't procrastinate so long I forget I wanna do this, lol.