[PF] Red Half-Dragon Sorceress Edit: Magus?

[Bex0r]

Hey guys, I recently joined a PbP PF game and am planning to play a half-dragon sorceress. It's been quite a long time since I played anything but FreeForm RPGs, and I'm more used to v3.5 than PF.

Before I hear any groans, I'll tell you that I'm fully aware that the half-dragon template is better for fighter chars rather than casters, but I'm going through with this for the RP factor rather than the min/maxing aspect. This is much more of a story-telling game than a hack-n-slash. ^.~

If I had a choice I'd more likely go with a dragon-wrought kobold, but the GM doesn't allow this race, nor most supplemental material, and no prestige classes that would do me any good.

I'm looking for ideas on how best to distribute my skill points and which feats to consider that would boost my char best as a sorceress. We're starting at level 1 and start with 28 points to put into abilities.

I'm also wondering if I should look into a Familiar and which species would be useful as well as interesting given my character's template.

Thanks so much everyone, I look forward to any advice you might have. :)

[Keneth]

28 points and a +2 CR template? That's some high-powered stuff there. :smallbiggrin:

Since you have wings, invest as much as you can into Fly until you can make DC 20 without rolling (or at least reliably). Max out Spellcraft because, well... it's Spellcraft. Depending on your personality, put points into Intimidate or Bluff (if a trait that gives you Diplomacy as a class skill is available, that's cool too). If you're gonna go with Draconic bloodline, invest into Perception (this is a good idea regardless). I'm guessing you won't have many more skill points unless you plan on getting your Int above average.

Familiars are cool since they basically give you extra actions every round. If you're going for versatility, an imp is the obviously best choice (if you're non-good), a lyrakien is pretty sweet as a polar opposite (although it lacks invisibility). Thematically, I think taking one of the dragons would be too obvious (and they're both good-aligned), go instead for something that fits your personality and has "hands" so it can use magic items. Note that if you plan on having a familiar, it's best if you invest skill points into UMD.

Have human as the base race so you can get +1 spell per level as a favored class bonus. This is by far the best choice of race for a sorcerer.

Also, if this isn't a very open setting, alter self might be a good idea to have for when you need to keep a low profile. Its duration is rather short though, a better investment would likely be a Greater Hat of Disguise.

As far as feats go, metamagics are cool in spite of extending your action. Extend for your buffs, Empower if you're gonna be blasting, Dazing for extra oomph, Quicken once you can afford it. There's more but those are probably the ones you'll want. If you're gonna be abusing a particular spell, spell perfection is must-have, hands down.

There's also the more general feats you'll want to consider. Improved Initiative gives you a huge tactical advantage. Craft Wondrous Items is awesome if you'll have time to craft (and there's no one else). Improved Familiar is obligatory if you're gonna take a familiar. Toughness is your first choice when there's nothing else you absolutely need more. And, of course, the big cheese — Leadership, if you can get away with it.

[Bex0r]

Thanks very much Keneth, that was extremely helpful.

I keep seeing comments about the LA and buy-back related to half-dragon templates. Can someone explain to me in simple terms what this means and how it affects the development of my char?

Say I wanted to make her more gishy, any further suggestions?

[Tokuhara]

With your Half-Dragon Sorcerer, I say dip 2 levels in Paladin (making your total Caster Loss 4) to get a Smite "nova", Charisma to all saves, and Evil Radar. Or grab some Cavalier for a Free MOUNT (roughly 300g average added to your WBL), or even a 1 level dip into Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger to get a GUN!!!

[Bex0r]

Haha. Somehow I don't think those are quite what I'm looking for. Would a mount really be that useful for a char who can fly?

[Tokuhara]

Haha. Somehow I don't think those are quite what I'm looking for. Would a mount really be that useful for a char who can fly?

Take it like this: Say you cannot fly due to a low ceiling. Wouldn't you like being able to ride a horse in a pinch?

[Bex0r]

True, but I think I would rather not take levels in paladin. My character is the wrong alignment anyways.

[Keneth]

I keep seeing comments about the LA and buy-back related to half-dragon templates. Can someone explain to me in simple terms what this means and how it affects the development of my char?
Technically there is no LA in Pathfinder. But let's say we take the rules for playing strong races. You start the game as a 2nd level character, having no class levels and CR 2. Every three levels after that, halfway between the second and third level, and up to half your starting CR (meaning once), you get a free level to offset the decreasing returns of your racial bonuses. This means that halfway to 5th level (3rd level for you), you'd get a bonus level. So by the time you're level 5 (and until the end of the game), you'd only be lagging behind a single level.

LA is a horrible system though, talk to the GM about potential alternatives. As a sorcerer, getting higher level spells sooner is always a better option.


Say I wanted to make her more gishy, any further suggestions?
Well, a sorcerer is not exactly a go-to class for gishing in Pathfinder. If you want to be a gish, you'd be better off playing a magus. Lagging behind a level would hurt slightly more, but it's offset by the large stat bonuses. Magi make awesome gishes even when slightly crippled. :smallbiggrin:


Edit: Actually, the minimum CR for a half-dragon is 3. That may or may not put you behind another level. Technically a 1st level half-dragon human sorcerer would still be CR 3, so that would likely negate the imposed minimum CR.

[Bex0r]

I just looked up the Magus and I must say, I'm sorry I hadn't really paid attention to this class before! This seems to be just what I'm looking for. The half-dragon's bonuses seem like they should come in handy for the magus. When looking at picking skills for the Magus, what should I look into? And what about feats? I am really not familiar with the Magus at all. :x

[Keneth]

Considering you can have amazing ability scores, you shouldn't have much trouble optimizing the magus. As far as abilities go, even though Int is your primary spellcasting ability, you shouldn't focus too much on it — your spells only go to level 6 and most of them don't allow saves anyway, so Str and Con should be your primary stats. You don't have to worry about Dex much since you'll be wearing heavier armor as you gain levels. Don't completely dump Wis since you're gonna want decent Will saves. Cha is of the least importance for a Magus but you can still afford to raise to about 12 or so if you want a bit of a social bonus. Personally, I'd go for something like: Str 24, Dex 13, Con 20, Int 20, Wis 12, Cha 10 (with +8 Str, +6 Con, +4 Int, +2 Cha racial modifiers and 28 points to spend).

Here's some suggestions for the other aspects:

Skills: If we assume you have at least 18 Int, and you're human, that's 2+4+1 = 7 skill points per level in the least. Way more flexible than a sorcerer in that aspect. Like before, max out Fly (until you're comfortable with it) and Spellcraft. Perception is not a class skill but max it out anyway since it's pretty much the best (or at least most used) skill in the game. I usually put one rank into Climb, Ride, and Swim (comes in handy at low levels), but since you can fly, there's no real reason to invest anything into Climb, and the other two become even more situational. Put some ranks in Intimidate for fluff (as before, Diplomacy is better if you can get it as a class skill). If you're going for a familiar (it's always nice), max out UMD, and or can do so regardless if you want to use spells you don't have (on wands, scrolls, etc.). Whatever you have left over (and there should be plenty of skill points left at this point), throw into your Knowledge skills.

Feats:
Power Attack: For a Strength build it's kind of a given.
Intensified Spell: You're gonna want this for your shocking grasps or other spell of preference. Take it at 7th or 9th level.
Improved Familiar: If you're gonna get a familiar, then this is a must.
Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus: Because it's +5% hit chance each.
Lunge: Having reach with any weapon is amazing.
Spell Perfection: If you're gonna capitalize one spell as your go-to damage spell, then you need this. Prereqs are pretty intensive though.
Preferred Spell: So you can cast your favorite spell spontaneously. It requires Heighten Spell though which is a bit of a waste, but on the upside, it also counts for Spell Perfection if you're going for it.
Quicken Spell: Because it's awesome and you need metamagics for Spell Perfection. If you're not getting Spell Perfection, don't take this.
Elemental Spell: Is generally better on a metamagic rod but you can't use those with spell combat unless your rod is also your weapon (my character developed a custom spell just for that). Since magi tend to use the same spell throughout their career, being able to change its element when up against resistant or immune creatures is important.
Empower Spell: If you can get the Magical Lineage trait, this feat combined with Intensified Spell becomes crazy good once you get Improved Spell Recall. An intensified empowered shocking grasp (15d6 damage) would take up only a 3rd level spell slot, which means you can recall it for a single arcane pool point.
Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration: This is nice to have if you have excess feats to spend.
Extra Arcane Pool: Some campaigns are very combat-focused. In such a case, this will be your life saver. Take as often as needed but learn to conserve your arcane pool points first, feats are precious after all.
Arcane Strike: Good feat but requires a swift action to use, like a lot of other Magus abilities. Generally better for dervish dancers rather than Strength magi.
Improved Initiative and Toughness: Not quite as important for your character. Take if you feel you need them, otherwise skip them.

Magus Arcanas: These are about as good as feats but your selection is rather limited and there are also level requirements to top it off. Arcane Accuracy is generally what you start with at 3rd level, it makes it easier to hit those pesky high AC opponents.
If you want a familiar, the Familiar arcana is a decent choice for 6th level since you can then pick up Improved Familiar at 7th.
Accurate Strike is pretty much obligatory for the 9th level arcana. A full attack with touch attacks and spell combat will generally obliterate just about anything. Way better than Arcane Accuracy but also costs you twice as many pool points, use with prejudice.
If the GM allows you some minor 3rd party material, I would consider taking the Warding arcana. I usually take this one because we get very little gold in our campaigns. If you can afford a good armor, ignore it. As an alternative, Devoted Blade is a very nice arcana, though its usefulness depends on your alignment. If your alignment isn't in the favorable range, Ghost Blade is a similarly useful weapon enhancing ability, especially if make your weapon brilliant energy.
At 15th level, take the Bane Blade ability. As far is enhancing your weapon goes, Bane is, without a doubt, the best ability there is.
There's no great arcana to take at 18th level. If at any level you don't know which arcana to take (including at 18th), take Spell Blending and get any Wizard spells you might want (such as heroism for instance).

Weapon: While you might be tempted to go for a two-handed weapon, I would suggest not doing that. What you really want is a one-handed weapon with a good critical threat range that can be wielded with two hands. The generic weapon you'll see on every magus is a scimitar. I'd like to say you should break the cliche, but the weapon is just that good. A keen scimitar will crit as often as 30% of the time, which also doubles any spell damage you do with your spellstrike. Rolling 30d6 on your shocking grasp is ecstatic. A cutlass has the same stats as a scimitar if you want to be a half-dragon pirate. :smallbiggrin:

Spells: By now you've noticed that I keep raving on about shocking grasp. Why? Because it's basically the best scaling-damage touch spell and most creatures aren't resistant/immune to electricity (in a campaign focused on demons, this would likely be useless). Since touch spells can be used with your spellstrike ability, this will be your primary source of damage (aside from hitting really hard), whatever the spell might be. There's other spells you can build around, you can even develop one of your own spells if that's an option, just use shocking grasp as a benchmark when selecting/developing one.

Here's a miniguide for spells. I won't mention the obvious ones like shocking grasp or grease, but I will try to point out those that are better for a magus than they are for the normal casters.

Cantrips
Arcane Mark: Use with spellstrike and spell combat for a free attack. This might annoy some GMs, even though it's RAW, make sure they don't mind first.
Prestidigitation: Because it's basically minor wish.

1st level
Shield: Use a wand instead, but definitely use it in some manner.
Color Spray: Amazing until opponents pass the 5 HD mark.
Warding Weapon: Can be extremely good until you can consistently make Concentration checks to cast defensively. Just carry a dagger with you.
Frostbite: Great damage for a spell of this level, it's also nonlethal (which may or may not be a good thing) and has a chance to cause fatigue.
Enlarge Person: A sweet low-level buff for a gish (or any Str-based character, really).

2nd level
Frigid Touch: Crazy good at lower levels, especially when spellstriking with a high-crit weapon.
Mirror Image: You're gonna need it far more than any full caster. Blur is pretty decent too, especially for long combats with lots of mooks.
Tactical Acumen: Gives you and your party bonuses when you're sporting a tactical advantage, such as the higher ground bonus you get from flying above someone. Gets better as you level.
Bladed Dash: This is like pounce except for magi. Use with spell combat.

3rd level
Haste: Buff yourself as well as the rest of your allies. It's far better (tactics-wise) if you cast this, rather than the full caster.
Vampiric Touch: Another great touch spell, and it's basically a self-healing mechanism.
Displacement: Blur on steroids, can be useful sometimes.
Ray of Exhaustion and Slow: These are your basic debuffs but you won't have the opportunity to use them most of the time.
Force Hook Charge: Another pounce-ish spell. I prefer bladed dash, but I've seen some cool uses of this with Toppling Spell (a toppling twilight knife is a pretty cool combo too).

4th level
Stoneskin: Amazing defensive spell if your GM lets you skip the material component. Amazing but costly otherwise.
Black Tentacles: Yes, I know it's an obvious choice, but this is basically one of the best CC spells in the game.
Dragon's Breath: A decent blasting spell with an element of choice. Also fits thematically.

5th level

I don't think anything really stands out for a magus at this level except maybe corrosive consumption. Use the standard caster selection (like wall of force/stone, teleport, etc.) or even better, memorize metamagic'd spells instead for more oomph.

6th level
True Seeing: Being unable to see stuff is embarrassing for a mage.
Forceful Hand: Because if a woman rapes someone, it doesn't count. Right? What do you mean it's not that kind of spell?

Don't forget the usual suspects like dispel magic, glitterdust, and obscuring mist. Like I said at the start, the spells above are just a better choice for a magus than full casters. Also, I probably forgot to mention a bunch of stuff, go through the spell lists again just in case.

I also feel like I have to mention a "small" exploit which could potentially annoy the GM (besides arcane mark). You knowledge pool ability allows you to memorize spells you don't have in your spellbook by spending arcane pool points (1 per spell, up to Int modifier spells per day). That's pretty cool on its own, but the important part to note is that you can add any spell you have memorized to your spellbook (for the price of material components). That essentially means you can learn new spells on demand each day. Wear a helmet to protect yourself from flying rulebooks.

This took me two hours to write. You're welcome. :smallbiggrin:

[Bex0r]

Keneth, you are absolutely amazing. Thank you immensely. This is all extremely useful, well-written, and I appreciate that you took so much time.

I had a few thoughts so I'm just going to list them rather than put them in any specific order:

I was thinking about using a morningstar. Thematically it seems a bit more appropriate for a half-dragon. I will take a look at blades though. It saddens me that falchions are two-handed. They look so sexy. Since Keen wouldn't work with a B&P weapon, what is the next best enhancement? Love your shocking grasp idea. I'm sure everyone will expect my char to do lots of fire spells, but lots of creatures are going to have protections against fire. Lets spice things up a bit! I wish I could take a Shadow dragon or something with pyroclastic breath instead. :P

Don't think much 3rd party material is going to be allowed, but I will ask. I am also planning to ask if spells that deal cold damage could be switched to fire damage just for obvious fluff reasons. (Red dragon, hello?)

Since the half-dragon has a claw at attack and the magus needs to have a hand free to use Spell Combat. So would the claws on the off hand simply count as a weapon she wouldn't have to draw? XD

Definitely going to get a Familiar at 7th. Not sure what kind yet but leaning towards Faerie Dragon since Pseudodragon is not the right alignment (CN).

You said to focus least on Cha, but the half-dragon comes with a +2 bonus anyways.

And lastly, as for your 'exploit', if I understand correctly this basically means that at 7th level I can basically add spells from the spell list automatically to my spellbook for use later? If so, that's nice. :P

[Keneth]

Well, a morningstar is also piercing so you could probably make it keen. But magi have martial weapon proficiency, it would be a shame to waste it on a simple weapon. Plus, a fantasy setting allows for some liberties regarding how a scimitar looks. For instance, the generic picture of Seltyiel shows him wielding a scimitar.

http://images.wikia.com/pathfinder/images/c/cd/Seltyiel.jpg
Sure, they weren't anything like that in the real world, but in fantasy settings, they're often not a far cry from the falchion. :smallsmile:

Refluffing some spells should generally sit well with any GM that isn't too much of a hardass. Especially when you're changing the type to fire which is commonly resisted. Still, just changing the element of a spell can sometimes be tricky; While you can certainly change frostbite into something like heat wave (heat can be just as exhausting as cold), it's questionable whether changing frigid touch into scalding touch would still stagger a target. In such cases it may be more appropriate if you created your own spell or simply asked your DM if you can convert one from 3.5 such as combust from Spell Compendium (pure damage is more indicative of fire anyway).

As far as the exploit goes, yes. Memorize a spell you don't have by using an arcane pool point, then add it to your spellbook. You now have every spell on your spell list. You can fully expect the GM to enforce the spellbook page limits on you at the very least, if you don't get outright slapped. Magus is tier 3 though, this won't actually break anything.

I'm not a huge fan of faerie dragons, and I don't really see how they would be a good fit for a chromatic half-dragon (even though they can be neutral). They're also very fragile. More importantly, are you really gonna have a dragon familiar as a dragon? :smallbiggrin:

Not really sure what your question about claws is aiming at. Claws count as a weapon and they also count as a free hand (if they're prehensile).

And yes, focus least on Charisma since it has zero use on a magus except for the one social skill they have. You can increase it for fluff reasons if you want, but you have consider how much you're willing to sacrifice to invest into something you don't really need. My magus had Cha 5, that was quite challenging to roleplay. :smallbiggrin:

[Bex0r]

Nice pic. I might look into a cutlass. Breaking tradition by not using a scimitar sounds fun. I would have just appreciated the morningstar thematically. Don't think she'll actually be a pirate, but perhaps she knocked one off at some point. :P

I'm not terribly happy with any of the familiars but I guess you're right, the two dragons are a bit too much of a given. Maybe a Mephit?

My point about the claws is that it counts as a free hand but if she needed to attack with it for some reason it still counts as a weapon without having to draw one.

[Keneth]

Yes, if you have natural weapons or improved unarmed strike, you always count as armed.

Also, there's nothing stopping you from having both a morningstar and a cutlass/scimitar. In fact, I'd recommend it so you don't fall victim to damage reduction. You're enchanting weapons on the fly anyway, even if they're both just +1 weapons, you'll still have a better enchanted weapon than anyone else in your party (unless they're wielding artifacts).

And as for familiars, you could always get a brownie. :smallbiggrin: The ones you should actually consider are — imps (best overall familiar), quasits (slightly worse than imps), arbiters (cute and can take some punishment), ratlings (squishy but can use scrolls), nosoi (arguable if a bird can use magic items) and shikigami (pretty cool guys).

[Bex0r]

Only problem with the morningstar is that it's not an 18-20 weapon.

If find myself pretty disappointed by the familiars, tbh. Not due to their stats or anything, just for fluff reasons. I like the imp but the LE alignment doesn't match up with the CN alignment of my character. *pout*

ETA: The nosoi is very interesting and kinda cute. It's going to be a task to fit it in thematically though.

[Keneth]

Only problem with the morningstar is that it's not an 18-20 weapon.
That's a huge problem. :smallbiggrin: I will admit I'm somewhat biased toward critical hits though, since our group is using the critical hit deck and it's really nice sometimes.

The issue with familiars is basically that there's not enough monsters in the Tiny CR2 creature group. The only other creatures from this group that aren't already available as familiars (excluding third party material) are Incutilis (which are aquatic and not really familiar material), White Dragon Wyrmlings (other wyrmlings might also be bond-able), Soulbound Dolls (I can't really see you walking around with one), and Executioner's Hoods (unlike Cassisians, you don't want to actually wear these).

Since you can't get an imp, a quasit is the next best thing. Although slightly worse, it can be pretty nasty if it's buffed and poisoning his target with claws, especially if it's ruled that the effective HD (which increases as you level) affects the DC of abilities that depend on HD (it's how we play it, whether or not it's RAW is unclear).

[Bex0r]

I might go with a cutlass (since it has same stats as scimitar), both to break the mold as you said, and because it will be thematically appropriate for the campaign setting (character is likely coming from a volcanic/tropical island country).

We are starting at level 1, so perhaps by the time I can take improved familiar I will be able to talk my DM into allowing some third party material. This is an online game and there is a system in place for submitting new stuff, so I wont lose hope yet. Know of anything third-party that I should look at?

Thanks once more for all your insight. Working the numbers has never been my forte and its nice to have someone around who seems to enjoy working it out. :)

Edit: I was going back to your excellent post with spell recommendations and I have to ask, what use does Arcane Mark have in combat? I feel like I'm missing something here...

[Wagadodo]

Acrane Mark allows a touch attack to apply to target unwillingly. So you can use the special ability to swing and cast a spell to damage with your weapon. So it will effectively allow you to use your 0th level spell to power one of your abilities.

Arcane Mark is a very touchy subject about actually be allowed to used with it. If you down't want the Cyber Players Handbook thrown at you I would check to see if your DM allows you to do this.

[Crasical]

Take it like this: Say you cannot fly due to a low ceiling. Wouldn't you like being able to ride a horse in a pinch?

In most places where the ceiling is too low to fly, wouldn't it also be too enclosed to ride a horse?

[Keneth]

Arcane Mark is a very touchy subject about actually be allowed to used with it.
That sentence was butchered to hell. :smallbiggrin: Putting that aside, it works as far as RAW is concerned, but it's kind of hard to justify in-game why you're using it more than once on any single creature. The way I see it, the eldritch energy transfered into your weapon allows you to attack with it faster, albeit less accurately.

The easiest solution, that generally makes both the player and the GM happy, is to convert one of your cantrips (such as acid splash) into a melee touch spell. Alternatively, you can ask if you can have brand on your spell list. If you're gonna be using arcane mark anyway, I don't see why any GM would say no.

[Wagadodo]

Me type good!

One of the things I look into on my Magus is the Arcana Close Range that allows you to deliver a ray spell through spellstrike. It would allow you to bypass any change this spell over. Plus it will allow you to use a ray of enfeeblement to make that big bad you are fighting do a little less damage.

[Keneth]

It's a really bad choice of arcana though, its usefulness is far too limited for a magus's spell list. If they put more ray spells on his spell list, it would be a moderately decent choice.

[Wagadodo]

It is more of the thought of going up to a really strong monster, hitting it with a sword then taking a bit of its strenght. Also don't forget the Spell Blending Arcana that would allow you take few of those nice ray touch spells.

[Keneth]

So you're wasting two arcanas to do something you can already do? Just cast the spell as a normal ray and then make the rest of the attacks with the weapon. It lowers the net damage by a fraction, but you can spend those two arcanas on something more useful. I've never heard any decent argument that would convince me to take Close Range, that's like wasting a feat to take Athletic instead of Power Attack. :smallbiggrin:

[Wagadodo]

Not really wasting, you have consider it opens up some very nice ray spells. You can always take the two spells under the maximun level spell you can cast. It adds a lot of versitality to the class so it should be one of that you take anyways. So getting a ray spell wouldn't be hard. Of course it will be late in the leveling process. But of course the close range arcana might be a bit of a waste, but still could be fun. :smallwink:

[Keneth]

Let's see, there's three ray spells even worth considering; Dimensional anchor (hardly of any use to a magus since he can't get greater planar binding), enervation (decent but worse for a magus than a full caster), and hellfire ray (okay ray attack but you have better options to waste your 6th level slot on). I wouldn't waste an arcana to get any of these, if anything I would use spell blending to get spells like heroism or contingency. :smallsmile: