Conan Vs. CONAN

[Kyberwulf]

lol
Not really a versus thread.
I was watching the new Conan with some friends, and we started comparing the two. We all ended up agreeing that if it was named something else, the movie would have been better.

I was wondering what you guys thought?

[An Enemy Spy]

Conan 2: Electric Boogaloo.

[Starbuck_II]

lol
Not really a versus thread.
I was watching the new Conan with some friends, and we started comparing the two. We all ended up agreeing that if it was named something else, the movie would have been better.

I was wondering what you guys thought?

Do you mean because the new Conan had a different villian? It was pretty good. It takes more than one watching to notice how good it is though.

[Yora]

vs. BRIAN BLESSED!!!

[ThePhantasm]

I half thought this would be a Conan the Barbarian vs. Conan O'Brien thread when I saw the title.

[Eldan]

I thought it would be Ahnuld vs. book Conan.

[Maxios]

I half thought this would be a Conan the Barbarian vs. Conan O'Brien thread when I saw the title.

Ditto. I was expecting similar to that versus thread with the mythical heroes whose name's I can't spell; a contest to see which Conan is the best talk show host.

[Emmerask]

I half thought this would be a Conan the Barbarian vs. Conan O'Brien thread when I saw the title.

and I thought it was against this conan:

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6200000/Detective-Conan-detective-conan-6244203-800-600.jpg

Overall I think Conan would win this :smallbiggrin:

[mangosta71]

Well, the Conan the Barbarian that hails from the 80s definitely wins the soundtrack competition...

[Callos_DeTerran]

I think the old Conan movie (the Barbarian, not the Destroyer) has a much better soundtrack and a more compelling villain (a vital piece of any adventure story). Thulsa Doom just drips charisma and serenity, the picture perfect evil cult leader. Plus it fit the tone and style of the Robert E. Howard stories very nicely, always a good touch.

The new Conan the Barbarian has a more compelling Conan and secondary cast of characters. The villain (and his quirky mini-boss squad) aren't slouches either, but they just can't compare to Thulsa Doom. They also fit the tone and style of the Conan books, but they seem to draw more inspiration from the authors who succeeded Howard, rather then Howard himself. This isn't bad, but there is a difference. It also benefits from a plot with more depth. As awesome as Thulsa Doom is...we odn't really know anything about him or what he wants, just what he's doing and why Ahnuld-Conan wants to kill him. With Zym, we see what he's doing, why he's doing it, and a bit of his relationship with his creepy daughter. He's almost sympathetic in why he wants to do what he wants to do. Over all, the second Conan feels and watches like a better Conan movie then the first (which is also a good example honestly), but I prefer the second for the better Conan. I mean...if the movie is called Conan, then Conan needs more then six or seven lines...even if they are exceptionally quotable lines.

[McStabbington]

Old Conan, on the grounds that it makes a vastly superior musical (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBGOQ7SsJrw).

[Kyberwulf]

I realize that the 80's Conan didn't talk alot. I thought that fit his character pretty well. He didn't say much, he just did. That's what I didn't like about the new Conan, he talked WAY to much.
One scene that stays with me from the 80's Conan, is when he knocks that guy off the hourse. He just grabs his sword, is actions tell you his thought. He is gonna kill him. No fancy oneliners or monolouges... just buisness.

[Scowling Dragon]

Even though it was innacurate to the book, 80s Conan.

It was brutal, it was realistic, it was gritty it was slow.

2000s conan is garbage. Fast, cartoony and just.....ugh.

[Kyberwulf]

Cartoony, that is the word I was looking for to discribe the movie. It reminded me of the old TV series they tried to make in the 90's.

[Zaydos]

Honest opinion: both would have been better movies without the name Conan. I will always love the 80s movie, it's one of my favorite movies of all time, and it did draw elements from the stories but Arnold wasn't Conan from those stories.

The new one also drew on old Conan stories, and might have even had a more Conan-like actor but didn't feel like a Conan movie to me either. I'd say it might have been more true to the stories, but honestly I disliked the villain and would take the 80s movie over it any time.

Just my opinion... and now I want to watch the 80s movie.

[Brother Oni]

As awesome as Thulsa Doom is...we odn't really know anything about him or what he wants, just what he's doing and why Ahnuld-Conan wants to kill him.

I thought the last was fairly obvious, Thulsa Doom put Conan's village to the sword, decapitated his mother in front of him, stole his father's sword, then finally enslaved all the children (him included).


I mean...if the movie is called Conan, then Conan needs more then six or seven lines...even if they are exceptionally quotable lines.

He also gets bonus marks for one of them being a paraphrased quote attributed to Ghengis Khan.

[mangosta71]

I thought the last was fairly obvious, Thulsa Doom put Conan's village to the sword, decapitated his mother in front of him, stole his father's sword, then finally enslaved all the children (him included).
That was the point - we know Conan's motivation for going after him, but we don't really know anything else about Thulsa Doom other than that he was some kind of snake sorcerer and led a huge cult. He mentions later that it maybe had something to do with discovering the Riddle of Steel, but it's never explained how wiping out a tribe of barbarians furthers that purpose. We don't know what he was trying to achieve with the snake cult. We don't know why that king's daughter was so important that he sent an army to take her back, or why, when his forces were defeated, he tried to kill her rather than allow the heroes to return her to her father.

About the only thing the second movie has going for it is that it clearly defines the villain's motivations. Also, the first exchange between Conan and comic-relief-guy-whose-name-isn't-important-enough-to-remember:

"I think we made the merchant angry."
"Are you surprised?"
"Well, we didn't take everything he had."
"We didn't have time."

He also gets bonus marks for one of them being a paraphrased quote attributed to Ghengis Khan.
Truly, one of the best lines in any movie ever.

[Surrealistik]

Old Conan, on the grounds that it makes a vastly superior musical (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBGOQ7SsJrw).

Those back up singers at 1:21 are the best.

Old Conan wins it primarily for the realistic, gritty aesthetic and the villain. It definitely felt more immersive and authentic, and James Earl Jones as Thulsa Doom was mesmerizing. That aside, the protagonist, writing, atmosphere, even some of the supporting cast; all of these things were superior in the 80's production.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I half thought this would be a Conan the Barbarian vs. Conan O'Brien thread when I saw the title.

I was ready to start espousing the values of tall, lanky, pale Irishmen with silly hair over Cimmerarians.

[soir8]

The newer one had a better Conan, but other than that it was just an action movie with an action-movie-by-numbers plot. The 80s one was actually quite faithful to the books; it borrowed elements from several different stories without actually being an adaptation of any of them. It actually seemed like a Conan film, rather than a film with Conan in it.

[Brother Oni]

That was the point - we know Conan's motivation for going after him, but we don't really know anything else about Thulsa Doom other than that he was some kind of snake sorcerer and led a huge cult. He mentions later that it maybe had something to do with discovering the Riddle of Steel, but it's never explained how wiping out a tribe of barbarians furthers that purpose. We don't know what he was trying to achieve with the snake cult. We don't know why that king's daughter was so important that he sent an army to take her back, or why, when his forces were defeated, he tried to kill her rather than allow the heroes to return her to her father.

It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I was under the impression that Thulsa Doom was simply after power and by corrupting the youth and sending them after their parents, he could increase his influence.

The king's daughter was his highest profile conversion yet, hence why he sent an army to get her back (she was pretty much the only thing to stop the king sending his army to get her back).
In the end, Doom decided that if he couldn't have her, then nobody would, hence the attempt to kill her.

The rest of Doom's background is a bit hazy (I think his throwaway line to why he butchered the Cimmerian village was 'a youthful indiscretion'), but drawing on some of the books, movie Doom was an amalgamation of two of Howard's characters, one of which was a Stygian wizard (hence his snake motif and the dark skin).

I don't think the Riddle of Steel was something Doom was trying to answer, but something Conan was. Doom merely gave him the answer.

[zorenathres]

i didn't really enjoy the new conan (the main villan & his daughter i did not like... their dialogue & mannerisms just felt really off), however, i do like game of thrones & the conan guy plays a great barbarian all the way through (since he says very little, & its in another language). its a shame, but the original conan always has a place in my mind... the music, the cheesy narration, all of it is classic to me.

[Tiki Snakes]

It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I was under the impression that Thulsa Doom was simply after power and by corrupting the youth and sending them after their parents, he could increase his influence.

The king's daughter was his highest profile conversion yet, hence why he sent an army to get her back (she was pretty much the only thing to stop the king sending his army to get her back).
In the end, Doom decided that if he couldn't have her, then nobody would, hence the attempt to kill her.

The rest of Doom's background is a bit hazy (I think his throwaway line to why he butchered the Cimmerian village was 'a youthful indiscretion'), but drawing on some of the books, movie Doom was an amalgamation of two of Howard's characters, one of which was a Stygian wizard (hence his snake motif and the dark skin).

I don't think the Riddle of Steel was something Doom was trying to answer, but something Conan was. Doom merely gave him the answer.

I always found Thulsa Doom's motives pretty apparent, really. He was always after power. In his younger days, he thought that came from arms, armour and steel. Military might, so he rampaged and took what he wanted. But he figured out the riddle of steel, it's people that are strong (and to his interpretation, his control over people). So when we meet him for the second time he's got his Snake Towers in every city of the land and controls a large proportion of the younger generation almost entirely, and through them, the various Kings. He is building up to something, possibly toppling one or a number of them, but Conan pretty much derails his plans and stops him before he can vindictively punish the cities pied piper style by having his cultists kill themselves, thus decimating an entire generation (and probably slinking away to start again elsewhere in the aftermath).

Likewise, there's no mystery why Conan hunts him down, as Brother Oni mentions.

But yeah, it's worth noting that AFAIK the entire film was originally intended to be themed around the idea of Strength, hence the Riddle and Thulsa Doom's goal and so on and so forth. (The plan at one point was that there were going to be numerous movies, all examining a different concept or so on, I think, but that all went out the window and we ended up with the train-wreck that was Destroyer.)

[Scowling Dragon]

The old movie had this.....Solemness to it. This atmosphere that helped you get immersed in the world.

[Sneaky Weasel]

The old movie was...pretty darn good. I thought Conan was great, his lack of speech fitted his character perfectly. I thought the villain was pretty cool as well, the action was well done, and the whole plot felt like the old Conan stories. Bonus points for actually having a character die in it(it annoys me in movies when no one dies). Definitely worth watching.

The new movie was...pretty horrible. I thought Conan didn't seem like Conan. He seemed like pretty much any brash action hero in any schlock movie. The villains were cliche, the plot was cliche, the secondary characters were pointless, and there were so many gaping plot holes that you were left with a feeling of incompleteness when the movie was over. In my mind, not worth watching.

[Brother Oni]

But yeah, it's worth noting that AFAIK the entire film was originally intended to be themed around the idea of Strength, hence the Riddle and Thulsa Doom's goal and so on and so forth. (The plan at one point was that there were going to be numerous movies, all examining a different concept or so on, I think, but that all went out the window and we ended up with the train-wreck that was Destroyer.)

Ironically, Conan also figures out his interpretation of the Riddle (I suspect it's like a Zen koan and has multiple interpretations depending on the person) and subsequently becomes King of Aquilonia, succeeding where Doom failed.

I wish they had done a third Conan the King movie with Arnold now King of his own country, but yet called back to adventure. Something based on the Conan the Conqueror novel would work quite well as a framework, but earlier discussions on GitP has suggested a 'passing on the torch' style story with Conan going out in a blaze of glory.

For extra pathos, there's a line by the old king in Conan the Barbarian about the throne room becoming a prison - the first part of the film could reflect on Conan learning this lesson for himself, and the second part could show him being forced to use the lessons he learnt from the 'lesser' civilised men in his court's intrigues, as hie body fails him in his old age.

[Tiki Snakes]

Ironically, Conan also figures out his interpretation of the Riddle (I suspect it's like a Zen koan and has multiple interpretations depending on the person) and subsequently becomes King of Aquilonia, succeeding where Doom failed.

I wish they had done a third Conan the King movie with Arnold now King of his own country, but yet called back to adventure. Something based on the Conan the Conqueror novel would work quite well as a framework, but earlier discussions on GitP has suggested a 'passing on the torch' style story with Conan going out in a blaze of glory.

For extra pathos, there's a line by the old king in Conan the Barbarian about the throne room becoming a prison - the first part of the film could reflect on Conan learning this lesson for himself, and the second part could show him being forced to use the lessons he learnt from the 'lesser' civilised men in his court's intrigues, as hie body fails him in his old age.

Well, they were trying to put together a "King Conan" film for a long while, but development hell and Arnold becoming Governor kind of sunk that one. (Which is unfair of me to say, because it implies it ever really floated, and frankly, development hell doesn't seem to begin to cover it).

It's my suspicion that the ruins of that attempt eventually became the movie we got, but that is a hunch based on zero knowledge, so there's that.

[Avilan the Grey]

If they could do a movie faithful to the books...

I preferred the new CONAN but the old story. Arnold just doesn't look like Conan.

[Lord Tyger]

I only saw two brief bits of the eighties conan. In the first, Ahnuld was awkwardly trying to give a girl a bunch of flowers. In the second, a smarmy priest was telling him he shouldn't be ashamed of his body...

I get a weird impression about that movie.

[Tiki Snakes]

I only saw two brief bits of the eighties conan. In the first, Ahnuld was awkwardly trying to give a girl a bunch of flowers. In the second, a smarmy priest was telling him he shouldn't be ashamed of his body...

I get a weird impression about that movie.

Haha, ha. Uh, yeah. That's pretty hilarious out of context, thinking about it.

[Radar]

I only saw two brief bits of the eighties conan. In the first, Ahnuld was awkwardly trying to give a girl a bunch of flowers. In the second, a smarmy priest was telling him he shouldn't be ashamed of his body...

I get a weird impression about that movie.
Yeah, I can see, how it could shape the perception of the movie. They say, that music is the universal language, so the best way to sum up the movie is to show this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypAAsmgVmhk). The movie is really good, unless you can't stand Arnold's typical thick acting.

[Infernally Clay]

The original Conan punched a camel. It's difficult to argue with that. Yet, at the same time, I actually really enjoyed the new Conan. Maybe I'm biased 'cause I really liked Jason Momoa in Stargate, but I thought he carried the role well.

In the end, though, the first half hour of the new Conan was pretty much better than the rest of that film and the entirety of the original put together. Kid Conan was a badass. :smalltongue:

[grolim]

That, and Ron Perlman. Just shows where Conan got all his badass from.

[Avilan the Grey]

That, and Ron Perlman. Just shows where Conan got all his badass from.

"War. War never changes."

Somehow fits Conan, doesn't it?

[Brother Oni]

Yeah, I can see, how it could shape the perception of the movie. They say, that music is the universal language, so the best way to sum up the movie is to show this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypAAsmgVmhk). The movie is really good, unless you can't stand Arnold's typical thick acting.

And to think, originally they wanted a contemporary rock/pop musical score for Conan.

You would have ended up with the horror that is Ladyhawke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLCNqpbx--g) - to say that it has not aged well is an understatement.

[Tiki Snakes]

Yeah, I can see, how it could shape the perception of the movie. They say, that music is the universal language, so the best way to sum up the movie is to show this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypAAsmgVmhk). The movie is really good, unless you can't stand Arnold's typical thick acting.

It's a great soundtrack.
This re-recording in particular (http://youtu.be/QrhqkEHep88) is very much worth looking into, I say.

[Radar]

And to think, originally they wanted a contemporary rock/pop musical score for Conan.

You would have ended up with the horror that is Ladyhawke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLCNqpbx--g) - to say that it has not aged well is an understatement.
Ladyhawk has a good story and I quite enjoyed it (even if I hardly remember the details) - soundtrack issues didn't hinder the experiance. Conan on the other hand is still a well known classic thanks to the magnificant Basil Poledouris. It's a shame, that Morricone was unable to rise Red Sonja to the same level.

Also: 80's pop gives us some (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUc_0A5BkBY&feature=related) great (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCgfRC6gHtI) sountracks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ9BHGX58vQ), that are still good today.

It's a great soundtrack.
This re-recording in particular (http://youtu.be/QrhqkEHep88) is very much worth looking into, I say.
Well played, but I really miss choral parts in this piece. I actually heard silence in their place.

[Brother Oni]

Ladyhawk has a good story and I quite enjoyed it (even if I hardly remember the details) - soundtrack issues didn't hinder the experiance.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ladyhawke and one of my favourite memories I have, is getting to swing Rutger Hauer's prop sword from the movie around (not as sturdy as I was expecting, but it was a prop rather than an actual fighting weapon), but the opening credits music just make me cringe these days.

Thankfully the 80s soundtrack is mostly reserved for the opening credits and the rest of the movie has a classical score.



Also: 80's pop gives us some (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUc_0A5BkBY&feature=related) great (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCgfRC6gHtI) sountracks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ9BHGX58vQ), that are still good today.


I'm going to disagree with you on the Neverending Story opening (I tried to get my children to watch it recently and they lost interest before Sebastian got to Fantasia), but Labyrinth has David Bowie all over it and isn't as blatantly 80s as other examples here.

[J.Gellert]

I prefer the new Conan as "Conan", but that's not to say I don't like the old movie.

In fact, the 80's "Conan" is the image I had of Conan in my head for several years, because Arnold influenced so many other depictions of barbarians (for example, the Barbarian from Hero Quest and the hero in Rastan).

But after getting to know Howard's work a bit, it lost a little of its charm.

As for the new Conan... Great movie, I just didn't care for the villain... at all. Conan villains are supposed to be larger-than-life, especially seeing how Conan is defined by his opponents. This villain was a "nobody".

And I think they should have stolen some music (or at least inspiration!) from the Age of Conan Soundtrack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kn99vRCbww).

The music of Basil Poledouris is and will be awesome. It is the only reason the old movie has aged reasonably well (the visuals and the screenplay really show their age).

[leafman]

Well played, but I really miss choral parts in this piece. I actually heard silence in their place.
Got you covered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRTPf0g4h9s&feature=related

I'm surprised at how people are saying the old Conan is a good movie. I like the movie, but I've never seen people here call it a classic.

[mangosta71]

I consider it a classic example of how a soundtrack can make a movie.

[Wardog]

Also: 80's pop gives us some (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUc_0A5BkBY&feature=related) great (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCgfRC6gHtI) sountracks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ9BHGX58vQ), that are still good today.

Well played, but I really miss choral parts in this piece. I actually heard silence in their place.

What's that first one? The art style reminds me of Les Maîtres du temps/Time Masters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Ma%C3%AEtres_du_temps).

[Radar]

What's that first one? The art style reminds me of Les Maîtres du temps/Time Masters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Ma%C3%AEtres_du_temps).
The title was right there: Les mondes engloutis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartakus_and_the_Sun_Beneath_the_Sea). One of the best animated series of it's time along with Ulysse 31 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_31) and Les mystérieuses cités d'or (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Myst%C3%A9rieuses_Cit%C3%A9s_d%27Or).

[Wardog]

The title was right there: Les mondes engloutis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartakus_and_the_Sun_Beneath_the_Sea). One of the best animated series of it's time along with Ulysse 31 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_31) and Les mystérieuses cités d'or (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Myst%C3%A9rieuses_Cit%C3%A9s_d%27Or).

Ah, thanks. I wasn't sure if that was the name of the show, or the music, or the musicians.

Plus the "Générique" in the headline confused things. I stuck the whole ttitle into Goggle Translate and got "The generic lost worlds". (Actually, at first I got "Les mondes engloutis race" because it defaulted to Latin. I also got "Kind of lost worlds" after passing it through French and Latin and back to English).

Oh, and if it's comparable to Ulysses 31 and Mysterious Cities of Gold, I'm definitely going to have to watch it.