Dragon (R)age: Origins

[Thrawn4]

So, I started to play Dragon Age: Origins, and it has been a great game so far. But now I'm halfway through the game and about to gather an army, you know, by doing "mysterious quests of utmost danger" and fighting darkspawn successfully.
And then I get beaten again by some wayward bandits or cutpurses...

My problem is not so much that the game beates me (I appreciate the challenge), but that I get the impression that it only takes a few bandits to fight the darkspawn army, and that the game tries to turn every random battle into a fierce challenge without regard for the overall plot (being in my opionion that I do something a band of brigands shouldn't be able to do).

Spoiler-free thoughts on that?

Bonus question: Am I the only one who considers the game difficult?

[Dublock]

Its been a while since I played that game. Is there more then one difficulty? I only remember having trouble on the final boss.

I don't know about you, but I normally paused the game gave orders on every character and then let them do it and then re-pause the game. This lets you aim for the dangerous targets (the spell casters like 99% of all RPGs lol), and then mop up the melee.

I tended to use those big AoE attacks that just destroyed the enemies. It helped that I tended to like spell casters so I had two on my team, plus the archer female and Alister for a tank. Also if you can aim a AoE (I prefer Blizzard, knockdown is sweet) without starting combat, that gives you a great advantage.

Edit: Because I don't remember the first game that well and seemingly not that hard, I don't think it really broke the story any more then any other RPG that has random encounters.

Yes I can be a bit of a munchkin when it comes to RPGs and power levels. I normally DM, but when I play, I play *evil grin*

[Tono]

Were you headed to ... Olgrimar(? Don't remember the name exactly. The dwarven place) I know there is an ambush there that is more too deter people from attempting to go before level ~10, IIRC. If you ran into that it may be what killed you.

For the most part though, as long as I had one decent tank, I didn't find the game too difficult. Having a decent amount of potions and mages with the 'heal' spell helps a lot though.

[Trazoi]

That's why you're gathering an army instead of trying to take on all the darkspawn with your party of four. :smallwink:

Most of the difficulty I remember in the game was juggling around the micromanagement of individual party members. Sometimes you need to keep moving them out of harm's way, which can be fiddly especially in the console versions.

[Giggling Ghast]

Dragon Age can be very difficult, though it's also quite easy to break. Many are the solo builds that let the Warden basically sleepwalk through the game on his/her own.

[factotum]

The level of most of the opposition scales with you in Dragon Age--it's a bit more subtle about it than Oblivion was, but it still does it. However, I think you'll find that when you come to do the final quest you'll be wishing it was just a bunch of bandits you were fighting... :smallwink:

[darksolitaire]

Dragon Age can be hard if party does not have tank and/or healer. And a trapfinder makes a big difference in some fights. Sneaky Crushing Prison from enemy caster can be devastating. I tended to die on ordinary encounters which suddenly started going poorly instead of dying to actual bosses. And there are "gate" counters which are meant to stop you from entering certain areas without sufficient level, but they are still beatable.


Dragon Age can be very difficult, though it's also quite easy to break. Many are the solo builds that let the Warden basically sleepwalk through the game on his/her own.

Which builds are those? Spirit warrior and Archer I presume, and they can only solo at mid game.

[Cespenar]

Just spamming Cone of Cold could get one through 99% of the fights on Normal difficulty, IIRC. Even on Hardest, an Arcane Warrior Warden can take most encounters by himself alone.

[Avilan the Grey]

So, I started to play Dragon Age: Origins, and it has been a great game so far. But now I'm halfway through the game and about to gather an army, you know, by doing "mysterious quests of utmost danger" and fighting darkspawn successfully.
And then I get beaten again by some wayward bandits or cutpurses...

My problem is not so much that the game beates me (I appreciate the challenge), but that I get the impression that it only takes a few bandits to fight the darkspawn army, and that the game tries to turn every random battle into a fierce challenge without regard for the overall plot (being in my opionion that I do something a band of brigands shouldn't be able to do).

Spoiler-free thoughts on that?

Bonus question: Am I the only one who considers the game difficult?

You have to pay attention to what both you and your group are doing. Personally I have discovered that if you play on Normal difficulty, you can learn to "program" your companions via custom tactics good enough to only have to keep track of them against bosses. On higher difficulties you HAVE to pause and issue orders all the time.

As for difficulty as such... How used to western RPGs are you? DA:O was quite easy for me, but I have played a lot of Bioware classics.

[Ailurus]

I found it helps if you treat it a bit like an MMO raid, just one where you control everyone rather than just one guy.

You do want to send your tank in first (Shale, Alistair or the Warden generally, depending on what you took for your class), and pick up aggro on them. Then, have your mage crowd-control one or two of the guys (as mentioned before, cone of cold works great here, as do knockdown spells and others). And then actually run your rogue around behind the guys (if a melee rogue) to backstab. Drop one guy while keeping heals on your tank as needed, then go to a second, then a third, etc. Everyone keeps doing their MMO job, its just that you're in charge of everything now.

[Arbitrarity]

Which builds are those? Spirit warrior and Archer I presume, and they can only solo at mid game.

I did solo dwarf noble rogue on nightmare for my second play through. First few levels were kinda difficult (getting party members to stay away, kiting with dual-sweep). Ogre fight was tough (didn't use the barrel trick). Went to mage tower, where everything was peachy until bloody Uldred; he's hard solo (stay tight on him, dodge sweeps, you take 0 damage. Get knocked back... You get crushing prisoned). High dragon and Orzammar entry (not the bandits) were also tricky. Everything else was fairly simple, as I recall.

[Mx.Silver]

My problem is not so much that the game beates me (I appreciate the challenge), but that I get the impression that it only takes a few bandits to fight the darkspawn army, and that the game tries to turn every random battle into a fierce challenge without regard for the overall plot (being in my opionion that I do something a band of brigands shouldn't be able to do).

Spoiler-free thoughts on that?
Yes: get used to that feeling. It will only get worse from here. Especially once the final stages of the game roll around. In fact it's pretty much always there throughout the game. The fact that being a Grey Warden confers no actual mechanical effects at all just exacerbates it, really.




Bonus question: Am I the only one who considers the game difficult?
It's hard if you're not familiar with it's MMO-lite combat design. Even then, it gets substantially more tricky if you don't micro-manage your characters individually. Basically, the game comes with a combat pause feature for a reason.

[Thrawn4]

As for difficulty as such... How used to western RPGs are you? DA:O was quite easy for me, but I have played a lot of Bioware classics.
I beat the Baldur's Gate series, as well as Fallout and Kotor, so I guess I'm quite used to it...
My team normally consists of my bard/thief, Allister as tank, Morigan for damage dealing and either an Archer or a Healer...
I can't really imagine how people solo the game.

[Erloas]

I found the combat... very swingy in many of the challenging fights. I would have some fights where I would loose several times in a row and the next time would dominate the fight and hardly have any problems.

I found the rogue types to be of much less use then everyone else. The use of the casters was generally the key to almost every fight, with some of the larger AE spells practically winning fights on their own. The tanks, while useful, were fairly boring to play as. And the AI is almost totally useless for controlling anyone other then the tanks, so a lot of it is micromanaging everything and fighting against the AI being stupid.

[Kish]

I beat the Baldur's Gate series, as well as Fallout and Kotor, so I guess I'm quite used to it...
My team normally consists of my bard/thief, Allister as tank, Morigan for damage dealing and either an Archer or a Healer...
Here's your problem. Having a healer some of the time is your fourth reference here. If you want to stop having a hard time, having a healer all the time should be second, after your own character, and that only because you can't remove yourself from the active party.

[Grif]

Here's your problem. Having a healer some of the time is your fourth reference here. If you want to stop having a hard time, having a healer all the time should be second, after your own character, and that only because you can't remove yourself from the active party.

Yes. In which case, getting Wynne early and keeping her alive would make your game a lot easier, no matter who your other two companions are. (You can even take Lelianan and Zevran together, and still curbstomp Normal and Hard difficulty.)

[Cespenar]

Also, if you haven't already, get Heal for Morrigan.

[Chen]

I always see tons of posts saying "Make sure you have a healer" but I found this necessary if you only had one mage. Once you get 2 mages its a joke. Cone of Cold freezes things for an absurdly long time. Use the first level earth spell and you can shatter most things too. Forcefield is possibly the most broken spell since you can use it to keep monsters out of combat completely. Two mages means you can keep the two elites or bosses out of combat, mop up all the mooks and then kill the boss. It works on most things too. The easiest game I played in DA:O was a party of me (Arcane Warrior), Wynn and Morrigan. The third companion was Leilani to find traps. Easiest run ever.

The spell combos are very strong too. Frozen plus something to shatter is powerful. Forcefield + Crushing prison is a huge explosion if I recall. Combining the three storm abilities is pretty crazy too I believe (that one is harder if you don't have 3 mages though).

[Cespenar]

The spell combos are very strong too. Frozen plus something to shatter is powerful. Forcefield + Crushing prison is a huge explosion if I recall. Combining the three storm abilities is pretty crazy too I believe (that one is harder if you don't have 3 mages though).

Actually, you're better off not comboing Crushing Prison. It will keep the target busy for longer. Funnily, I use that combo to free my party members if they get Prisoned.

[Yora]

I played on Hard, since Normal was just too easy for me, and that did actually get to become quite a lot of work at many points of the game.

Except the final fight. It took very long, but worked on the very first attempt without ever there being a real threat of loosing the fight.
But the fight at the Anvil or in the Elven Ruins? Didn't have such challenging fights in a very long time, and I never got to actually beat the dragons. :smallbiggrin:

[Avilan the Grey]

Here's your problem. Having a healer some of the time is your fourth reference here. If you want to stop having a hard time, having a healer all the time should be second, after your own character, and that only because you can't remove yourself from the active party.

In MOST fights you are better off with DPS than healing. However boss fights in higher difficulties almost demands one (or two, if you teach Morrigan to heal too). Oh and as usual, KTMF (kill the mage first). Crushing Prison is WONDERFUL against mages of all kinds.

[Giggling Ghast]

Which builds are those? Spirit warrior and Archer I presume, and they can only solo at mid game.

High Dex dual weapon dagger is another one. Eventually becomes untouchable.

[Calemyr]

Healer or not, mage's break things. There's a very good reason they're so feared in this setting, they have a level of versatility, offense, and crowd control that other classes only dream of. Put two mages together and use them properly and it ceases to matter if either of them is a healer.

So short answer: two mages or one healer, don't go with anything else.

A lot of the difficulty in the game can be reduced a bit by creating good tactics for your allies. It gets even better if you get a mod (PC-only) that improves the tactics system to include more conditions. Getting a mage to always use a stone fist on a frozen enemy or close other spell combos really comes in handy. Also, set your healer's tactics to more liberal on the heal spell. By the time you're at 50% health, the heal spell is less likely to really help.

Spell combos are a lot of fun. Storm of the Century (spell power + thunderstorm + blizzard) can be EXTREMELY satisfying if used right, which often includes a max-stealth rogue who can scout locations for the next storm.

[Sith_Happens]

Oh and as usual, KTMF (kill the mage first). Crushing Prison is WONDERFUL against mages of all kinds.

Don't forget Mana Clash. After getting that it's like enemy mages don't even exist anymore.

[Avilan the Grey]

So short answer: two mages or one healer, don't go with anything else.

I usually never go with either. Too many awesome characters I prefer over Wynne. Also, it depends on your own class.

Edit: I have also found that having four tanks is a viable tactic. Fights take longer to win, but are very easy.

[The_Jackal]

The game is difficult if you don't avail yourself of the insanely broken magic system.

[Crossblade]

Figure out how the queuing of abilities for your NPCs work. It will make the game 10 times easier, make sure everyone has use a heal potion when less than XX hp, then spam abilities from there.

[Zevox]

How difficult the game is can greatly depend on your party, as others have been indicating. In general, as far as effectiveness in the game goes, the classes rank something like this:

Mages (Elemental, force, and healing spells highly recommended.)
[quality gap]
Two-Weapon Fighters (Rogues > Fighters if well-built, but both are good.)
Sword-and-Shield Fighters (For pure tanking, not damage-dealing. For damage-dealing they're the worst.)
[large quality gap]
Archers (Rogues > Fighters if well-built, but both struggle compared to the above.)
Two-handed Weapon Fighters (Can perform well late-game, but never as well as the rest, and struggle hard early-game.)

That changes a bit in the expansion, Awakening, where new abilities and equipment make Archers exponentially better to the point of being almost as broken as Mages, but in the original game that's pretty much how things go.

To make the game as easy as possible, probably your best bet would be a party of three mages and a tank, but that's only possible if you yourself are a mage. Yes, mages are that broken.

Generally speaking though, the more two-handed weapon users and archers you try to use, the harder you will have it. Their slow rate of attack just doesn't cut it compared to the other classes. Which can be a problem, because the game gives you more two-handed weapon users than any other non-mage character type, and the party archer is one of your earliest acquisitions. It can also be easy to mess up a build for a Rogue character and make them quite a bit less effective than they could otherwise be.

Zevox

[Xondoure]

Archers become useful from one beautiful ability: Scattershot. Other than that don't bother with their abilities (unless you really need to stun a single enemy, even then just maybe) because they deal more damage without them.

[Douglas]

Archers can actually be very powerful even without Awakening, but it requires a specific build. Basically, go Rogue/Bard (I like Duelist for the other spec), max Cunning, stack Song of Courage and all the +crit gear you can find, use Aim to double the crit chance, and then use Shale's Rock Mastery to pile on even more crit chance and negate the rate of fire penalty (technically Aim should be activated last so Rock Mastery's bonus gets doubled too). Auto-attack everything from longbow range with ridiculous crit rates, and watch enemies die before they even get close enough to hit back. Works best with a party of 3 archers, all doing the same build, plus Shale.

I played through the whole game with this build as soon as I could get Leliana, Zevran, and Shale, and had little trouble. I think it was on the highest difficulty, too. Most of the time I just controlled Shale and let the AI have everyone else (including the Warden) tag along and shoot on sight with no intervention from me necessary.

According to the wiki Rock Mastery is bugged on non-PC platforms currently, though, so if that's correct you'll need the PC version to do this.

[Tiki Snakes]

Mmm, I played a Mage, generally roflstomped most things in the game, (one or two superhard creatures I recall killing by kiting for long periods of time, but generally it wasn't particularly tricky.

Except, if I recall, one particular ambush. The one that spawns you in a tiny, tiny area with awkward terrain and the enemy already attacking you. That was quite annoying, to say the least.

[mangosta71]

There are mods on DA Nexus that bring the combat effectiveness of archer rogues and 2H warriors up to the level of 2W rogues (warriors are simply not as good as rogues for archery or dual wielding). However, I still prefer to play melee rogues simply because stealth makes them ideal scouts. Having that one person in position behind your enemies can make the difference between a TPK and a trivial encounter.

As has been mentioned, the game is much easier if you learn to use the tactics AI built into the game. The preset options are pretty good for anything but mages, though I always switch archers from Rapid Fire to Aim.

[Giggling Ghast]

On the subject of Dragon Age related thingies, you guys should check out these fan-made machimas. They're actually pretty funny! :smallbiggrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VfbwrET0qk&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzpTkk8EEvc&feature=context-cha

[dianakingston]

My problem is not so much that the game beates me (I appreciate the challenge), but that I get the impression that it only takes a few bandits to fight the darkspawn army, and that the game tries to turn every random battle into a fierce challenge without regard for the overall plot (being in my opionion that I do something a band of brigands shouldn't be able to do).

Spoiler-free thoughts on that?

As others have pointed out, enemies level with you, at least to a certain extent. So yes, the battles will get progressively more difficult the stronger you become.

But tactics are also an incredibly important part of each battle: positioning your party members in the right places, having them use the right skills, working together to take down enemies... you can't just charge forward and hope for the best. It's not that kind of game. :)

Also, I've found that having a traditional balanced party can get you pretty far (ie: fighter/rogue/mage/mage or fighter/fighter/rogue/mage). In fact, the default "good/evil" parties tend to line up this way - for example, an "evil" party would have Sten/Shale as fighters, Zevran as the rogue and Morrigan as the mage, while a "good" party can include Alistair as the fighter, Leliana as the rogue and Wynne as the mage.

[Avilan the Grey]

Also, I've found that having a traditional balanced party can get you pretty far

Actually, it is easier to either have three fighters and one mage, two fighters and two mages or one fighter and three mages.
You only NEED a rogue in DA:O if you want the marginal loot you get from locked chests. Just let your tank run through the traps ahead of the mages. That's all.

[darksolitaire]

You only NEED a rogue in DA:O if you want the marginal loot you get from locked chests. Just let your tank run through the traps ahead of the mages. That's all.

Plus up to 50 exp per disarmed trap. Rogue archer also deals more single target damage then anything else. And do note that the amount of money in DA: O is limited, barring some glitches. So if want to collect all the rare items , rogue is useful.

[Douglas]

And do note that the amount of money in DA: O is limited, barring some glitches.
That depends on whether you consider the ability to make a profit on items you craft to be a glitch. True, the prices only work out to a net gain for a very small number of items (unless you're a dwarf noble, in which case sell to Gorim), but it is possible to make money as a traveling item crafter.

[Avilan the Grey]

Plus up to 50 exp per disarmed trap. Rogue archer also deals more single target damage then anything else. And do note that the amount of money in DA: O is limited, barring some glitches. So if want to collect all the rare items , rogue is useful.

I have never finished a playthrough with any lack of funds.

[Douglas]

I have never finished a playthrough with any lack of funds.
Ah, but did you acquire every (or nearly every) top-of-the-line magic item in the game? There are somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen (I think) magic items that are at the very least strong contenders for best item of their type in the game, and are each available only from a store and have a price somewhere in the vicinity of 100 gold. For exampe, the Staff of the Magister Lord (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Staff_of_the_Magister_Lord), Far Song (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Far_Song), The Felon's Coat (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/The_Felon%27s_Coat), and Lifegiver (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Lifegiver). There are at least 3 or 4 others in that price range in addition to the ones I listed.

If you did, did you do anything special beyond completing quests and looting everything to get the money for it? If not, were you a dwarven noble taking advantage of Gorim's special pricing for that origin?

[Xondoure]

At least one rogue is so important for experience. All those traps and locks added up start to count for a lot. It's reached the point where if I accidentally set off a trap I'd reload.

[Avilan the Grey]

Ah, but did you acquire every (or nearly every) top-of-the-line magic item in the game? There are somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen (I think) magic items that are at the very least strong contenders for best item of their type in the game, and are each available only from a store and have a price somewhere in the vicinity of 100 gold.

No, because I didn't need them. You FIND enough gear in the game to make the uber-items you can buy unnecessary. I usually only buy one or two things, a mage robe here, or a staff there... Admittedly I have all the DLCs, so I am up to my eyes in swords, shields and armors.

[Zevox]

No, because I didn't need them. You FIND enough gear in the game to make the uber-items you can buy unnecessary. I usually only buy one or two things, a mage robe here, or a staff there... Admittedly I have all the DLCs, so I am up to my eyes in swords, shields and armors.
Yeah, you generally only get a couple of the really expensive shop items. I honestly don't think it would be possible to afford all of them even if you specifically saved up every coin throughout the game for that purpose.

Zevox

[Douglas]

No, because I didn't need them. You FIND enough gear in the game to make the uber-items you can buy unnecessary. I usually only buy one or two things, a mage robe here, or a staff there... Admittedly I have all the DLCs, so I am up to my eyes in swords, shields and armors.
Then your experience of not running out of money isn't really a relevant response to someone who was specifically talking about if you DO want to get all of them.

[Mx.Silver]

At least one rogue is so important for experience. All those traps and locks added up start to count for a lot. It's reached the point where if I accidentally set off a trap I'd reload.

It's not really that important. Even without the trap experience you'll still be pushing level 20 by the time the final stages roll around and, due to the level-scaling enemies, being a higher level doesn't have much of an impact on the game's difficulty (beyond accessing a few of the more effective abilities).

[Avilan the Grey]

It's not really that important. Even without the trap experience you'll still be pushing level 20 by the time the final stages roll around and, due to the level-scaling enemies, being a higher level doesn't have much of an impact on the game's difficulty (beyond accessing a few of the more effective abilities).

Yeah... I always max out levels before the final fight. Without trying.


Then your experience of not running out of money isn't really a relevant response to someone who was specifically talking about if you DO want to get all of them.

There isn't enough money in the game to get all of them anyway.

[darksolitaire]

Yeah... I always max out levels before the final fight. Without trying.

Weird, I usually end up with max. 22 tops, and that is with trying to get everything possible. What's your trick?

Unlocking talents, stats and skills and bigger numbers are attractive prospect of gaming to me, so I want to get as high level as possible.

[Avilan the Grey]

Weird, I usually end up with max. 22 tops, and that is with trying to get everything possible. What's your trick?

(Shameful) Yes you are right. I usually end up at about lvl 22-23 by the end of the base game. (/Shameful)
I just haven't played it for so long.

On the other hand, unless you are an extreme completionist, unlike say Mass Effect there is no sequel to this game, so there is no need to hit the level cap. In fact I prefer a game where it is very hard, unlike it's spiritual predecessor (the Baldur's Gate games) where you often hit the level cap when you had 20-25% left of the game to do.

[Sith_Happens]

There isn't enough money in the game to get all of them anyway.

There is if you can make Potent Lyrium Potions.:smallwink:

[Avilan the Grey]

There is if you can make Potent Lyrium Potions.:smallwink:

Or use the double-mousebutton cheat. :smalltongue:

[dianakingston]

Just to get us back on track: the reason I recommend having a rogue rather than a third fighter or a second mage is twofold.

First, putting Morrigan and Wynne (the only two mages in the original game) in the same party is problematic in terms of approval, since they're diametric opposites and one of them will not be pulling her weight if you can't get her approval up.

Second, three fighters and a mage basically means limited ranged support, since your mage will be pulling double duty as a healer as well (particularly at higher difficulties). A rogue with archery skills can cover for your mage when her mana runs low.

[Kish]

Just to get us back on track: the reason I recommend having a rogue rather than a third fighter or a second mage is twofold.

First, putting Morrigan and Wynne (the only two mages in the original game) in the same party is problematic in terms of approval, since they're diametric opposites and one of them will not be pulling her weight if you can't get her approval up.

I don't know which premise baffles me more: That the trifling bonus a character gets for high approval is other than trifling, that a mage without that bonus is weaker (or "not insanely stronger") in combat than a rogue, or that it's something other than incredibly easy to get both Morrigan and Wynne to very high approval.

That assumes the main character is not a mage, of course.

[Dublock]

I don't know which premise baffles me more: That the trifling bonus a character gets for high approval is other than trifling, that a mage without that bonus is weaker (or "not insanely stronger") in combat than a rogue, or that it's something other than incredibly easy to get both Morrigan and Wynne to very high approval.

That assumes the main character is not a mage, of course.

I have to agree with the above poster.

I found its not hard to have both mages at high approval, a lot of it is gifts and really not a lot in conversations.

Mages are overpowered in Dragon Age. They have by far the best crowd control and massive AoEs and can even be combined (I love Blizzard...). Yes you could be missing out on a few attribute points but nothing beats being able to ignore the majority of opponents at will with a wizard or two.

I obviously can't do it, but I think 4 wizards would be one of the best parties. I know I love having 3 of them in the same party (My first main was a wizard, even before I knew how broken they were :P) Then toss in a tank, you are set, you might have to pause to give commands to everyone unless you are a master at the tactics system.

[shadow_archmagi]

My modus operandi was Grease+Earthquake followed by Lightning+Blizzard... three spells that prevent movement and one that causes damage. Occasionally a single enemy would make it out of there semi-intact, and Allistar would slap it down.

[Sith_Happens]

I just start the fight with Crushing Prison on the toughest guy and Mass Paralysis on the rest (and Mana Clash if there are any mages or demons, of course) and go to town with my two-weapon rogue Warden. About half the enemies are usually dead by the time the paralysis wears off, and Cone of Cold + backstabs cleans up the rest.

[Xondoure]

Can you have three storm of the centuries going at once?

[Divayth Fyr]

Never tried it, but seeing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2pysTVb37Q) I'd say it could be possible.

[Xondoure]

Never tried it, but seeing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2pysTVb37Q) I'd say it could be possible.

The devastation... one laughs to think of the agony upon ones foes.

[Beowulf DW]

I'm doing another playthrough with an arcane warrior Warden. I think I might have messed up my spell list a bit, but I'm not having an especially difficult time of it. I've gotten my magic into the mid-30s right now, and I'm at level 9 at the moment. I think I'll focus on Constitution and Willpower for a little while, because I'm still a bit too squishy for my liking, and I keep running out of mana.

P.S. At what level should the Warden's Keep quest be undertaken?

[Kish]

It doesn't matter. All the DLCs level with you.

[Beowulf DW]

Thanks, Kish.

[Xondoure]

Later in the game! The items scale with your level, so you want them at their best.

[Sith_Happens]

Later in the game! The items scale with your level, so you want them at their best.

I forget whether this works on PC too, but on console you can just put things in the chest in Warden's Keep and they'll scale while they're in there (though it's a bit random so you have to zone in and out a few times before it will scale to where you want it).

[Caewil]

Does nobody use the Glyph of Paralysis + Glyph of Repulsion trick? It stuns for even longer than mass paralysis with a bigger radius. It's probably the best spell combo ever.

[Sith_Happens]

Does nobody use the Glyph of Paralysis + Glyph of Repulsion trick? It stuns for even longer than mass paralysis with a bigger radius. It's probably the best spell combo ever.

I thought about it, but there are just too many awesome spells and not nearly enough levels to get them all without a third mage (I played a two-weapon rogue, as mentioned earlier in the thread). The Glyphs are one of the lines that fell by the wayside. That, and the combo description seemed to imply that it's a friendly fire risk even on console-Normal difficulty.

[Caewil]

It's a better pick up than mass paralysis, one talent cheaper and is easy to set up. Cast repulsion on a door you're going to open that you know enemies are behind. Have all party members backed up. If you have blizzard or another spell that bypasses LOS, stand back and use that. If not, open the door and run away from the glyph. Once enemies hit the repulsion glyph, throw on the glyph of paralysis. even if there are enemies behind them who are unaffected, they'll still clog up the door and let you unleash a lot of attacks unhindered. That's my SOP for most close encounters in DAO. Works well in corridors as well, but then you need to time the running. For open areas, it's still as good as mass paralysis with a longer duration. Just slap it down on one of the further away groups to buy time. There is a friendly fire risk, but no more than with fireball. It has to be used as an opener before the enemies close -unless you feel like paralyzing Alistair.

[Xondoure]

Does nobody use the Glyph of Paralysis + Glyph of Repulsion trick? It stuns for even longer than mass paralysis with a bigger radius. It's probably the best spell combo ever.

Yes and it's awesome.

Force Spells, Elemental spells, Spirit Healing, and Glyphs are the only trees I'm that interested in. Force and glyphs provide great crowd control, elemental provides dps, and healing is awesome.

Of course, i've heard a trtuly optimized mage goes for the mana clash line and whichever line has the spell power boost but honestly, I have a hard time getting through those so-so trees.

[Sith_Happens]

Of course, i've heard a trtuly optimized mage goes for the mana clash line and whichever line has the spell power boost but honestly, I have a hard time getting through those so-so trees.

Wynne had a bunch of spell points left over after I got all the best healing stuff (it was mainly just on Morrigan that I worried about the offensive spells), so it wasn't much trouble having her be the one with Mana Clash as well as being my dispeller.

[Caewil]

The mana clash line's needed for Storm of the Century, so I get it fairly often. Still, I prefer battlefield control over DPS spells. Storm just feels too much like cheating.

[dianakingston]

Does nobody use the Glyph of Paralysis + Glyph of Repulsion trick? It stuns for even longer than mass paralysis with a bigger radius. It's probably the best spell combo ever.

Not sure about the actual stats, but I think Blood Wound works equally well in paralyzing and damaging across a very large radius...

[Xondoure]

Not sure about the actual stats, but I think Blood Wound works equally well in paralyzing and damaging across a very large radius...

Not against golems.

[mangosta71]

Of course, i've heard a trtuly optimized mage goes for the mana clash line and whichever line has the spell power boost but honestly, I have a hard time getting through those so-so trees.
I remember fighting enemy mages on my first playthrough, before I learned of the wonders of mana clash. It sucked. Trying to get my rogues into position before the fight started to backstab and stunlock them while the party whittled them down, which only worked on up to yellow opponents, seeing as how red ones are immune to things like stuns, and got my rogues spotted on numerous occasions before I was ready...

Then I heard rumors of this amazing anti-caster spell, picked it up, and never had a problem with casters again. Biggest hit I've ever seen in DA:O was a mana clash nuke (almost one-shotted the elite genlock caster that you run into in the first level of the fort during the final battle).

[Grif]

Does nobody use the Glyph of Paralysis + Glyph of Repulsion trick? It stuns for even longer than mass paralysis with a bigger radius. It's probably the best spell combo ever.

Thoroughly seconded. And to think I stumbled onto the Glyph tree by accident. (A misclick, of all things.)

[Dublock]

I remember fighting enemy mages on my first playthrough, before I learned of the wonders of mana clash. It sucked.

I never picked up the mana clash line but I was always able to nuke down the mage(s). Although I did have two mages, my main was a mage with Alister and the archery rogue (I was romancing her). although if you had a dps as melee I can see that being an issue.

Standard set of commands if I see a mage

Archery rogue target mage
*insert single target spell at mage pending on my mood*
*AoE if needed or single target like the frozen spell or stone fist*
*have Alister kill whoever*

I never though mages were a big deal when focus fire.

[Xondoure]

I remember fighting enemy mages on my first playthrough, before I learned of the wonders of mana clash. It sucked. Trying to get my rogues into position before the fight started to backstab and stunlock them while the party whittled them down, which only worked on up to yellow opponents, seeing as how red ones are immune to things like stuns, and got my rogues spotted on numerous occasions before I was ready...

Then I heard rumors of this amazing anti-caster spell, picked it up, and never had a problem with casters again. Biggest hit I've ever seen in DA:O was a mana clash nuke (almost one-shotted the elite genlock caster that you run into in the first level of the fort during the final battle).

Honestly crushing prison does the job fine. I'd want it for that one quest which is pretty much impossible without it. (the pride demon in the capital.)

[Kish]

Although I did have two mages, my main was a mage with Alister and the archery rogue (I was romancing her).
Did she find being addressed as "archery rogue" a turnon?

Also, Alistair. Not "Alister."

[Dublock]

Did she find being addressed as "archery rogue" a turnon?

Also, Alistair. Not "Alister."

lol I couldn't remember her name let alone how to spell it and I was lazy in googling it.

[Sipex]

lol I couldn't remember her name let alone how to spell it and I was lazy in googling it.

Leiliana, and she is a pain to court. In fact, if there was an option to call her 'that archery rogue' it would be one of the options which prevents you from ever romancing her.

[darksolitaire]

Leiliana, and she is a pain to court. In fact, if there was an option to call her 'that archery rogue' it would be one of the options which prevents you from ever romancing her.

Meh, few friendly words with Morrigan and Leliana and they are starting catfights over male warden around the time when you're walking in Lothering.

Also, Cone of Cold+Fist of Stone+Crushing Prison=Instant goodness.

[Zevox]

Leiliana, and she is a pain to court. In fact, if there was an option to call her 'that archery rogue' it would be one of the options which prevents you from ever romancing her.
I've heard some people say that, but I never had any more difficulty romancing her than the others. She waits a little longer before inviting you to bed, but that's it. Just take the obvious options to flirt with her, keep her approval up, and you're good, just like everyone else.

Zevox

[GloatingSwine]

Leiliana, and she is a pain to court. In fact, if there was an option to call her 'that archery rogue' it would be one of the options which prevents you from ever romancing her.

Actually, Leliana is really easy to romance as long as you steer clear of doing so until after you've completed her personal quest, because her personal quest dialogue is disabled if you're in a romance, but you can't actually progress the romance unless you've completed her personal quest.

[Sith_Happens]

Actually, Leliana is really easy to romance as long as you steer clear of doing so until after you've completed her personal quest, because her personal quest dialogue is disabled if you're in a romance, but you can't actually progress the romance unless you've completed her personal quest.

In fact, after Leliana's personal quest she becomes too easy to romance. As in, one of the follow-up conversations to the personal quest has a line ("She was special to you, wasn't she?") that triggers the romance even though you'd probably never think it would. And then at least one of the lines that's supposed to trigger a break-up doesn't actually do so.:smallsigh:

[SlyJohnny]

I played a Blood Mage. Start the fight with a Fireball to knock everyone down and turn on Blood Magic, and then hit them with that blood magic spell that's essentially a massive AoE crushing prison. Then, perform the next three in whatever order seems most appropriate; Blood Control on anyone still standing that looks like they wouldn't resist resist, Force Field on that stupid troll, crushing prison on anything else. When people start waking up, hit them with a Grease and maybe another fireball before they can get to you.

One thing I love about Dragon Age is how a higher level mage can throw around devastating spells one after the other. How many RPG's truly let you feel like a badass archmage hurling destructive magics everywhere with wild abandon?

[Avilan the Grey]

Leiliana, and she is a pain to court. In fact, if there was an option to call her 'that archery rogue' it would be one of the options which prevents you from ever romancing her.

What? All you have to do is to pretend to like shoes. :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:
I never had a problem romancing any of the options. She is so adorable when she stumbles all over her sentences talking to you...

Anyway... against mages I have never used Mana Clash... I tend to use Stone Fish (or whatever it's called) and Crushing Prison. Paralyze works well too.

[Cespenar]

I'm baffled by these "spells" y'all are talking about. My Arcane Warrior never needed any of them. :smalltongue:

[Kish]

Calling Leliana "that archery rogue" probably would prevent her from romancing you, though.

(I mean, the equivalent would certainly have that effect on me.)

[Douglas]

I'm baffled by these "spells" y'all are talking about. My Arcane Warrior never needed any of them. :smalltongue:
Spoken like a man who's never faced an enemy who used Dispel Magic.

[Sith_Happens]

Calling Leliana "that archery rogue" probably would prevent her from romancing you, though.

Well, yeah it would. "That lovely archery rogue," on the other hand, would turn her red as a blood splatter.:smallwink:

[Dublock]

Well, yeah it would. "That lovely archery rogue," on the other hand, would turn her red as a blood splatter.:smallwink:

Yea...sometimes I wish I could make my own dialog for stuff like that.

My first main was actually an Arcane warrior but I tended to use my AoEs instead and only wade in if a strong melee managed to resist my spells or Alister died/injured somehow and I was being to cheap to use a healing item on him :p

[mangosta71]

Anyway... against mages I have never used Mana Clash... I tend to use Stone Fish (or whatever it's called) and Crushing Prison. Paralyze works well too.
Mana Clash is more efficient. One spell instead of 2, and if you place it right you can kill multiple mages at once. And any mage that actually survives the hit has his mana drained, so he's still out of the fight. Which means you have Stone Fist and Crushing Prison available for suppressing archers. Ya know, if it's not easier to just Blizzard the buggers. And then segue in Storm of the Century. (Yes, I know it will be late-game by the time you've unlocked all these spells, enemy mages and archers aren't very dangerous before that point. And archers are only ever dangerous if you install the archery fix mod.)

[Sipex]

See, on my first play through I didn't read any guides or anything but I tried to romance Leiliana (male warden, dwarf if it matters) but never got anywhere with it. I even pretended to like shoes and was nice to her too, I must've clicked the wrong options when conversing with her.

[GloatingSwine]

What? All you have to do is to pretend to like shoes. :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:


To be fair, that'll get Zevran into bed as well....

[Beowulf DW]

See, on my first play through I didn't read any guides or anything but I tried to romance Leiliana (male warden, dwarf if it matters) but never got anywhere with it. I even pretended to like shoes and was nice to her too, I must've clicked the wrong options when conversing with her.

I didn't read any guides and managed it just fine. Same with Morigan in my second playthrough. Then again, I always play as a human, and I seem to have a lot of luck with that sort of thing in games. I suppose I have a talent for character analysis.

[Kish]

See, on my first play through I didn't read any guides or anything but I tried to romance Leiliana (male warden, dwarf if it matters) but never got anywhere with it. I even pretended to like shoes and was nice to her too, I must've clicked the wrong options when conversing with her.
You might have triggered a bug where it breaks her personal quest if you get too much approval from her too fast.

Then again, maybe she realized you were being phony.

[JadedDM]

The first time I ever played, I hadn't looked at any spoilers or guides at all. I just played it organically. I had actually intended to romance Morrigan originally, because...Claudia Black, that's why! But she and I clashed so much in personality, I actually started leaving her back at camp because her constant complaining annoyed me (I was playing my character pretty straight up Lawful Good). I wound up romancing Leliana completely by accident. Guess I was just lucky, considering the trouble so many others had with her.

[Sith_Happens]

And archers are only ever dangerous if you install the archery fix mod.)

There is that warehouse in Denerim where you get hit by like five Scattershots as soon as the loading screen is done.:smallannoyed:


To be fair, that'll get Zevran into bed as well....

So will having a pulse.:smalltongue:

[Beowulf DW]

There is that warehouse in Denerim where you get hit by like five Scattershots as soon as the loading screen is done.:smallannoyed:



So will having a pulse.:smalltongue:

As long as it breaths and walks on two legs, he'll do it.:smallbiggrin: