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Tanuki Tales
2012-07-18, 12:56 PM
Threads concerning bad DMing or DM horror stories or the proper behaviors and credos for DMing or a DM venting or asking about how a session went concerning their players (and it ends up with the thread more or less turning against them and blaming them) are a dime a dozen on these forums. You see, at the very least, one of them every day.

And we geeky folks who do tend to sit in the DM chair do inevitably read these threads out of curiosity and continue to read them either because they can be learning experiences, entertaining diversions to kill some time, amusing nostalgia measuring sticks to see how we've evolved and grew as DMs as the years have gone by or what ever reason we do end up reading them.

But I have to admit that every time I read these threads, see the responses that come into them, the ideology of how the DM should treat the players (and very rarely in my personal experience the other way around), the dissection of where the DM is being "bad wrong" and all, it makes me want to DM games less and less.

I mean, as a far as I'm aware, I've never really fallen into any of the pitfalls of "Bad DMing" before; I don't really railroad at all, I've never had any glory hogging DMPCs, I've never abused my power to passive aggressively work out IRL frustrations on my players, I've never defenestrated my players when they come up with creative, crazy ideas, I've never gone into a "killer DM" mindset (except once but they asked me to run that way to end a campaign), I've never stonewalled them or dismissed them out of hand for finding a way to basically one-shot an encounter and never have any of the games I've run ever been anything but fun for them.

But after spending years with the online community here, reading those threads as I have, I can't help but second guess myself and question my credibility as a DM now. Am I doing it wrong? Am I really making a toxic environment for my games? Is it wrong of me to try and build a game where I'm enjoying myself as much as my players and I'm not sacrificing my fun for their fun or vice versa? Are they only sticking with me and saying the games were "fun" to my face because, as one playgrounder put it, DMs are in an extremely limited supply and many gamers would rather have a crappy game and DM then no game and DM at all?

I don't read those threads as much as I used to, but even if I stopped completely and never opened another one ever again, the damage is pretty much done and the seed of doubt sown.

Maybe I'm just reading into more than is there, but I just feel that the community seems to be very critical and against DMs and quite a deal more lenient on players.

Does anyone else see what I'm saying and where I'm coming from or is this just irrational paranoia and insecurities playing Gary Busey in my head?

Yora
2012-07-18, 01:02 PM
There are threads in which bad people are bitching about how much they hate the people they play with.
And just like all the level 20 D&D games in which every book ever published is included in all character builds, this actually never happens to me or ever happened to anyone I know.

I just don't read either of those threads, except this one, because it had an interesting title.

Tanuki Tales
2012-07-18, 01:06 PM
I just don't read either of those threads, except this one, because it had an interesting title.

Mind to elaborate this? Because I don't want to assume you meant it to appear connected to the previous paragraph.

Yora
2012-07-18, 01:11 PM
When people complain how awful their game is, then all I can think is that these people simply shouldn't play in these groups. I don't think there is anything to learn from such threads and I don't have anything to add to it, so I don't read them.

Tanuki Tales
2012-07-18, 01:14 PM
When people complain how awful their game is, then all I can think is that these people simply shouldn't play in these groups. I don't think there is anything to learn from such threads and I don't have anything to add to it, so I don't read them.

Alright, you've honestly lost me. Are you insinuating that my thread is just a "complaining about how awful their game is" thread (which it isn't)? Because I didn't want to assume that but it's what I'm reading as you saying.

Yora
2012-07-18, 01:26 PM
There is no hidden subtext, I just mean it as I said it:
When people start threads about bad DMs and bad players, the few times that I look at them to see what it is about, all I think about it is "the problem is that the people you play with are idiots you don't seem to even like". And since nobody wants to hear that, I don't say it. And since I won't post a reply or learn anything from the discussion, I don't even read it.

But since this thread is about such threads, I was curious what would be inside it, so I read it.
You asked what we think of such threads, and my answer is in the paragraph above this one.

Zerter
2012-07-18, 01:50 PM
I can't speak to all people posting in such threads, but from personal experience...

I had a player once that was very frustrated with my game and the group as a whole, he did not talk about his frustrations and he did not deal with them at all despite being given openings to do so (instead pretending he did not feel that way while being passive agressive in general or when he did voice frustration it was directed away from him 'I am talking on behalf of another player'). It was pretty obvious they were there however and he eventually quit giving some nonsense excuse.

What do I find on this site later? Posts with him saying he was cheating in the campaign we played because he wanted to sabotage it. Two long ass posts in two different 'Worst DM ever' threads voicing a long list of frustrations about how he got screwed over big time.

A lot of this worst DM, worst player ever stuff is just venting online. Lots of time people just don't make the effort to make the game work or are too afraid to handle stuff in real life.

The posts also focus only on the bad side of people. When talking about the guy above, sure he was a terrible player, bringing his personal issues to the table and showing a very bad side not being able to take any responsibility for his actions, but at other times he had been a positive addition: running a decent campaign and acting as a competent party leader. When talking about me he also was absolutely right, I made a lot of mistakes as DM. He just decided to put them in the most negative light possible and not mention the things I did well.

valadil
2012-07-18, 02:07 PM
Honestly I think it's due to the player to GM ratio. If a group has 1 GM and 5 players and someone feels like complaining on the netterwebs, odds are good it's a player.

Furthermore, GMs are scarcer. If you only know one GM you either play with him or you don't game. GMs have more freedom to kickban a player and replace him. I think this leads to more players tolerating GMs they shouldn't be with.

Tanuki Tales
2012-07-18, 03:31 PM
There is no hidden subtext, I just mean it as I said it:
When people start threads about bad DMs and bad players, the few times that I look at them to see what it is about, all I think about it is "the problem is that the people you play with are idiots you don't seem to even like". And since nobody wants to hear that, I don't say it. And since I won't post a reply or learn anything from the discussion, I don't even read it.

But since this thread is about such threads, I was curious what would be inside it, so I read it.
You asked what we think of such threads, and my answer is in the paragraph above this one.

That's what I was hoping you meant, sorry for misunderstanding your intent.


Edit:

@In General:

What has got me second guessing isn't so much the horror stories themselves or the venting, but those logical posts that both rationally explain what the DM did wrong and then goes on to explain (once again rationally) exactly how a DM should behave and act. They speak word for word like there is this official codex of how a DM is supposed to treat the game and their players and it just unsettles me since I don't approach the game that way or always act that way (though never to my or the game's detriment).

And then people second and back up posts like those and it just leaves me pondering.