Possible suggestions/contributions for my dungeon

[LordHenry]

Hi community,

I'm dm-ing a group that will soon hit a dungeon. They are 3 players lvl 6-7.. so things are starting to get interesting. The dungeon setting will be very old ruins (leading underground) located in a dangerous swamp, concealed with magic. Long ago, foul magic has been practised here and just recently a powerful necromancer has been said to have resided there.(I think more background isn't necessary).
What I'm asking for are some suggestions/tips/ideas to make the dungeon more epic. I'm looking for the non-ordinary stuff, creative treasure ideas, a rare foe or an unusual trap and so on. There will definitely be many undeads (because of the history) and I've already constructed quite some areas.
The players are pretty powerful for their level and I really want to provide them a mysterious, thrilling and challenging adventure. So the dungeon I have in mind is not straight forward, but has secret doors, sealed rooms, I'm thinking about a cursed items, some unconventional treasure and above all, interesting and challenging encounters.
To sum it up, I'm here to get the one or other good (or even great ;) idea from you guys. Maybe an intersting encounter you have constructed as dm or experienced as a player, a mini-side quest within the ruins or an old, long-forgotten spell - whatever comes to your mind.
Thanks in advance and I am already curious about your possible suggestions.

[limejuicepowder]

I'm a fan of encounters that seem very difficult at first, but have tactical ways to make them easy(er).

For example, I ran a battle in a long narrow room with a spell caster, the BBEG, on the far end and an enlarged minion with a spiked chain blocking the way. However, they were in an alchemist lab, thus the entire left wall was covered in different types of potions, most of them explosive. Fighting the spiked chain directly would be difficult, but throwing potions not so much xD. Unfortunately, my party is a bunch of dunderheads and didn't get the hint. They survived, but barely.

So I guess the moral is don't ever count on your players to figure out what you want them to figure out.

Anyways, I was thinking of some kind of encounter where the PC's can use the dungeon's traps to their advantage, like luring a very dangerous melee-type monster back though a series of resetting traps that they are already aware of (since they probably set them off on the way in).

Ok real idea: The Invulnerable Ghouls
Have the party encounter a group of what looks like ordinary ghouls in a large room, with a couple of pillars to block LOS. However, a couple seconds after the party sees the group, the ghouls draw a great gasping breath and the party's light sources go out (I assume they are using light sources of some sort). Battle commences.

The party should quickly figure out that battling in the dark sucks, and battling ghouls that are immune to damage sucks even more. Have each character make an int check to figure out that that the light is harmful to the ghouls, based on their behavior when the PC's first entered (vary your information based on degree of success). It turns out that the ghouls can only take damage when in the radius of a torch (or better). However, a ghoul can take a full round action to extinguish a light source and prevent it from being relight for X rounds.

Success in this encounter revolves around good use of the light sources they have, and timing of their attacks. Besides their immunity when in darkness, the ghouls are relatively weak, so the PC's should have a couple rounds to figure things out and not get cut down instantly.

[Dayaz]

Hint to the Wizard that the 0level spells Dancing Lights and Light might make him a BA on a mission (I'm assuming this is PF and therefore those spells are infinite).

Let him just keep casting those spells... if the things are using full actions to put them out, they might be provoking AoO *evil smile* If your melee can keep them interrupted long enough, the Wizard could fill the place with lights and then pull some AoE shenanigans

[Kerilstrasz]

Lets see.. just of the top of my head...

a large room that a battle will have place... a room with glass floor...
nder the floor a pool of acid... maybe not the entire floor is glass.. or maybe it is but the are rope like things hanging from the ceiling...

hmm.. what else..
maybe...
how about that evil caster you have there use magic mouth or anything you like to speak to them from nowhere "bluffing" them to be a good deity helping them around?

aha...
they found themselves running away from a tough enemy... the only way to go is into that room... the floor of that room turns to quick sand... if they fight the enemy they prolly die... if they sucked by sand the same (or not???)... the floor takes them to a room below where they find (smthing that will help your plot)

thats all i can think at the moment

[LordHenry]

Nice suggestions so far, I really like the idea with the immortal ghouls. An encounter that is solved with their mind, rather than brute strength!

Also the quicksand is something I am thinking about implementing... It might very well be that one does not make the save and gets sucked in a lower floor - which maybe in the end turns out not to be that bad (maybe he finds a treasure there) At the very least the party will be seperated in case of failure and needs to find together asap...

(And by the way, the idea with magic mouth is, though good, not what I have in mind, because the evil wizard is thought to be dead - Seeing he's not will be the big turn of events.)

[Featherman]

Some of the recurring enemies in my campaigns are fast ghouls with time-related powers who you can only reasonably fight when time-stopped or in alternate time like in the round following the use of that amulet from MIC. For a lower level adaptation you could perhaps make it so that you can only fight them while hasted or with extra attacks from items and spells. Others include groups of hardy kobold knights and other defensive fighting types trying to prevent the PCs from killing the buff-bot/nova blaster caster and big planar constructs that are immortal, gain strength when they stand still and which have to be trapped or banished and otherworldly basilisks that can walk through solid matter, have anti-magic powers and whose gaze attack goes through objects.

Some important and possibly interesting items on my current campaign is an extremely powerful unholy and cursed intelligent spear which dislikes it's current wielder and tries to get him killed in combat against a powerful foe so that he could change owners. It curses both its wielder and the opponent when it hits and when the wielder is wounded it also tries to intimidate. It can also plant dark thoughts in the minds of others and sometimes tries to telepathically influence those that the party meets trying to turn them against the PCs. Others include a sword that can transform into a construct, a small item that spontaneously and indiscriminately casts destructive spells (like earthquake, erupt and meteor swarm - maybe call lightning, burning hands, gust of wind etc or some sort of limit for a less game changing alternative) when it is in light and small statues that the followers of a fire god fear and loathe so much that they will try to destroy everything that the statues have touched and also everything in their immediate area.

Just some ideas.

[limejuicepowder]

Hint to the Wizard that the 0level spells Dancing Lights and Light might make him a BA on a mission (I'm assuming this is PF and therefore those spells are infinite).

Let him just keep casting those spells... if the things are using full actions to put them out, they might be provoking AoO *evil smile* If your melee can keep them interrupted long enough, the Wizard could fill the place with lights and then pull some AoE shenanigans

If a spell is extinguished by a ghoul, the player should not be allowed to cast it again for X amount of rounds (probably 4-5). Otherwise it would become trivial to spam light or w/e, esp in pathfinder.

You won't even have to do this however if you are playing 3.5 and there's no bard/sorc, as the players with have a very finite amount of light sources.

[LordHenry]

It's 3.5 so the wizard (lvl 6) has a finite amount of lvl 0 spells and thus I think it's not necessary to prevent him from casting one again.

As for the fast ghouls (or similar enemies, maybe roguish skeletons or something, that are able so sneak attack due to their speed (the players being flat-footed)) that should be met while having been buffed haste: How would you penalize it if they are being fought without haste? Penalties to AC and hit? (The party has means to buff haste anyway, even apart from the wiz spell, they have a magic item 3/day for 1 round haste)

Any suggestions for a spell casting enemy? (with focus on death, necromancy or evil spells and the like)

[dantiesilva]

Dread necromancer 8

As for an encounter in the treasure room everything looks really good and then there is a sword hung on the wall that looks like crap, chipped blade everything. If you touch any of the things that look like treasure you take 1 point of damage or 1d4. Becasue they are actually picking up snakes polymorphed or some such thing. Or when they pick something up in the room a golem comes to life and starts attacking them until its put down. The catch is the real treasure is the one on the wall that has a way to block it from being seen in its true form by true sight because its always boring when your PCs use true sight and say all this is junk grab the sword on the wall and lets go.

[Tim Proctor]

I would look at the Heroes of Horror book, its got lots of cool ideas if you're willing to go creepy.

What I would suggest to make it unique is have the first floor of the place flooded with 3-4 feet of swamp water. Ghouls are hidden in there waiting for someone to disturb them, etc.

Swamps are also known for have explosive gases, I would have the dungeon be really hard with the water, concealed ghouls that get a free attack, some undead alligators, an anaconda, etc. Nothing is more disturbing than being in a fight in a flooded dungeon with vines growing all over the place fighting ghouls to find out the vines on the walls are pumped up assassin vines. Enemies everywhere, half of them ripping and tearing at them and half of them grappling them and pulling them underwater.

Then have the group end up in a giant room that smells like (methane?) with the evil boss and if they cast a fire spell then boom goes the dynamite. Either that or they can fight the dude, but if the dungeon is as hard as it should be then they should have to be really smart about it.

[XmonkTad]

If you make your maps beforehand, you could put them in a four dimensional space. Dragon Compendium has a guide for how to do that. If you want to do fun things with light mechanics, have a room with a bunch of lamps filled with oil that only gives off shadowy illumination when lit, and a floor that is only solid under shadowy illumination. A few fire arrows solve the puzzle.

[Featherman]

As for the fast ghouls (or similar enemies, maybe roguish skeletons or something, that are able so sneak attack due to their speed (the players being flat-footed)) that should be met while having been buffed haste: How would you penalize it if they are being fought without haste? Penalties to AC and hit? (The party has means to buff haste anyway, even apart from the wiz spell, they have a magic item 3/day for 1 round haste)

Those denied dodge bonuses to ac, got concealment & improved evasion and got AoOs and weren't threatened in normal time. They were higher level monsters so I don't think all those benefits will be appropriate.

Giving them +4 dodge bonus to AC and maybe some DR or reflex bonuses against those not hasted and denying dodge bonuses to AC is probably more than enough. If they can't keep up haste reliably then the penalties don't need to be too harsh. Just something that makes it noticeably rewarding to use haste (or some other effect).

[Azoth]

Evilness always gives room for fun things.

Take an undead bruiser that need not see his enemies. Give him pounce/spring attack. Now put him in a magically pitch black room where the walls are lined in teleportation circles. Anything that touches the wall in teleported across the room to the square infront of the corresponding teleportation circle. Hello charging pounces where the party thinks they are being swarmed in a big room. Works best if there is an archer in the party...or you have a blasty wizard.

Make skeletons part of the walls for awesome ambushes when they break free and stab PCs for getting too close.

I am a big fan on constructs as statue's/other pieces of seemingly harmless and unimportant decour. Ignore the giant serpant wrapped around an ancient hero statue huh? What's your grapple mod again?

Hide auto reseting traps of inflict/harm spells as normal dungeon tiles. Great for getting a few more rounds out of your baddies, and randomly weakening a player.

Since this place is supposed to be creepy as all hell. Maybe make use of enemies that have fear auras or bolster intimidate checks for intelligent enemies. Always fun to make the big tough barbarian cower in fear.

Play up the no escape of death with thick/heavy portcullis and collapsing ceiling sections. Of course fixed by a way out in the BBEG chamber.

I also reccomend a good bit of diseases and weak affect good DC poisons. So your players feel the horror of going deeper and deeper only to continuously be brought closer and closer to death by the tactics of wretches and undead fiends.

[dantiesilva]

1 Dread necromancer and two ta three allips with traps in the room. Facing many problems all at once. Wis drain of alip. Ghostly visage of Dread necromancer as well as its spellcasting.

[Ramshack]

One dungeon I had was a multi level cavern. A reoccuring theme through out the dungeon was waterfalls and running water. The back story was a bandit king once lived in the cave and hid there for 2 years while the kingdoms army sieged their position outside. Eventually the bandits ran out of food and started to kill and eat one another inside. At one point the cave opened up to a huge chamber and at the center of the chamber was a huge waterfall running through the room. I had zombies and other assorted undead through out the cave to represent the fallen soldiers.

The fun parts were when I had a pit trap. The catch was that it landed in the river underneath ground. And it took 16 rounds to reach the end (the start of the dungeon) This lead to some very strenuous fort saves to prevent drowning. You can adjust the amount of rounds to fit the parties fort saves more appropriately if needed.

Secondly one of the more interesting baddies in the dungeon were a creature called the drown from Heroes of Horror. Standard undead combatants only they had an aura that 30 feet around them people must start making fort saves vs drowning immediately without first waiting the 10 rounds.

My group thought it was fun and unique.

[dantiesilva]

I actually forgot about them yea. They are amazing though I think you have your source wrong saying they are in Ebberon.

[Kol Korran]

some ideas from a dungeon i once ran:

- i assume the party is looking for something in the dungeon. i made several fakes of said things, and had impressive monsters/ traps guarding the fakes. they were put nearly everywhere, with the real item in a secret door (with clues to it in various places in the dungeon), near the entrance. the players metagamed that it must be in the deepest part, where they met their biggest, nearly lethal trap.

- (a bit like the immortal ghouls) in an "undead ruins" themed dungeon the players entered a huge hall, very cold, with a LOT of dead bodies (in the hundreds) frozen and seemingly in chains... (if fitted the story that they were from a slave race to the giants who built the compound), and the distant walls were entirely black (important later, though at that point it seemed like a minor detail). the party assumed that all the bodies were going to rise and attack them. they were... nearly right.

upon reaching the midpoint of the hall, the doors slammed, and the WALLS, seemed to drain! they were shadows, hundreds of them, the souls of the slaves... the party got 2-3 rounds to prepare (the walls were that far away), and then began fighting shadows, who surrounded them. about 2-3 rounds later they also saw some looking figures- the slave drivers (i used bone claws from MM) behind the shadows. they needed to kill them, but the numerous shadows blocked their way.

some ingenious spells, a lot of team work and a powerful cleric got them out, just barely. it was close to a TPK. i ran it for a 10the level party, but i guess you can adjust it for lower level (weaker shadows, weaker slave drivers)

- the water trap: in another dungeon, once the item of interest was found, the room they were in got locked, and they could hear distant noises in the dungeon... the dungeon was rearranging itself! and when the party arranged to open the door, they were a bit flooded- it was also filling with water, and rapidly! they had to race against time with various traps, undead and construct creatures trying to block their way in order to give the water time. and the exit was blocked too! they needed a different exit. they were swimming next to the ceiling when they got through that.

[LordHenry]

Very good ideas overall, just what I needed, considering the dungeon will be rather big! If I manage to implement that and also add some things from Heroes of Horror, then I expect the dungeon to be very exciting.

That would be the perfect time to hand out a cursed item. (if the players do find it at all, since the dungeon will be big, there's no guarantee they will explore everything).
Any suggestions for that? I'd like it to not be heavily annoying (as a player I once had a ring of defenestration - THAT was annoying ;) but it should have an impact on the players in some way, either because it's quite potent and thus the player may put up with the consequences or due to an ability or curse it has, can't be taken off etc... If none is the case, I imagine it would just be put aside, and we wouldn't want that!

Also any uncommon evil spells you don't see too often would fit thematically perfect. Any ideas on that?