Help me with my centaur

[Katana_Geldar]

Not sure why, but I've always liked centaurs. I think it had something to do with Fantasia. Anyway, there's a guy who runs a 3.5 game at a con I go to (has been running it for about ten years, con after con) and I've asked him if it's ok if I am a centaur even if it is outside his allowed books.

He might let me, I just want to see what it is like. The adventure is basically a never ending dungeon.

Any thoughts?

Here it is.


Messara

Female Centaur Monstrous Humanoid 4 / Ranger 1
Chaotic Good
Representing Melissa Legrand

Strength 23 (+6)
Dexterity 18 (+4)
Constitution 16 (+3)
Intelligence 12 (+1)
Wisdom 12 (+1)
Charisma 8 (-1)

Size: Large
Height: 5' 7"
Weight: around 800 lb
Skin: Light
Eyes: Gray
Hair: Blonde Curly

Total Hit Points: 43

Speed: 50 feet

Armor Class: 17 = 10 +1 [light wooden] +4 [dexterity] -1 [large] +3 [centaur]

Touch AC: 13
Flat-footed: 13

Initiative modifier: +4 = +4 [dexterity]
Fortitude save: +6 = 3 [base] +3 [constitution]
Reflex save: +10 = 6 [base] +4 [dexterity]
Will save: +5 = 4 [base] +1 [wisdom]
Attack (handheld): +10 = 5 [base] +6 [strength] -1 [large]
Attack (unarmed): +10 = 5 [base] +6 [strength] -1 [large]
Attack (missile): +8 = 5 [base] +4 [dexterity] -1 [large]
Grapple check: +15 = 5 [base] +6 [strength] +4 [large]

Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
400 lb. or less
402-1200 lb.
1202-1800 lb.
1800 lb.
3600 lb.
9000 lb.

Languages: Common Elven Sylvan

Long Spear [2d6, crit x3, 18 lb., two-handed, piercing]

Composite Longbow [2d6, crit x3, range incr. 110 ft., 6 lb, piercing]

Light Wooden Shield [+1 AC; check penalty -1; hardness 5; hp 7; 10 lb.]

Feats:

Alertness
Rapid Reload
Track [free to rangers]

Traits:

Skill Name

Key
Ability

Skill
Modifier

Ability
Modifier

Ranks

Misc.
Modifier
Appraise Int 1 =
+1

Balance Dex* 4 =
+4

Bluff Cha -1 =
-1

Climb Str* 6 =
+6

Concentration Con 3 =
+3

Craft_1 Int 1 =
+1

Craft_2 Int 1 =
+1

Craft_3 Int 1 =
+1

Diplomacy Cha -1 =
-1

Disguise Cha -1 =
-1

Escape Artist Dex* 4 =
+4

Forgery Int 1 =
+1

Gather Information Cha -1 =
-1

Handle Animal Cha 1 =
-1
+2
Heal Wis 5 =
+1
+4
Hide Dex* 0 =
+4
-4 [large]
Intimidate Cha -1 =
-1

Jump Str* 17 =
+6
+3 +8 [speed 50]
Listen Wis 6 =
+1
+3 +2 [alertness]
Move Silently Dex* 4 =
+4

Perform_1 Cha -1 =
-1

Perform_2 Cha -1 =
-1

Perform_3 Cha -1 =
-1

Perform_4 Cha -1 =
-1

Perform_5 Cha -1 =
-1

Ride Dex 4 =
+4

Search Int 2 =
+1
+1
Sense Motive Wis 2 =
+1
+1
Spot Wis 5 =
+1
+2 +2 [alertness]
Survival Wis 4 =
+1
+3
Swim Str** 8 =
+6
+2
Use Rope Dex 4 =
+4


* = check penalty for wearing armor

Centaur:

Monstrous humanoid type. Darkvision.

Large quadruped, carries 3x as much for a given strength

+4 against being bull rushed or tripped

Base land speed is 50 feet

Darkvision to 60 feet

Hoof attacks 1d6/1d6, may be secondary attacks (-5, half strength bonus)

Level adjustment +2

+3 natural armor class

Ranger:

Favored enemies

Track as bonus feat (already included)

Combat Style

Endurance

Wild empathy (roll level + charisma bonus)

Favored Enemies:

Magical Beasts +2

This ranger chose the wrestling combat track.

Class HP rolled
Level 1: Monstrous Humanoid 8
Level 2: Monstrous Humanoid 5
Level 3: Monstrous Humanoid 5
Level 4: Monstrous Humanoid 5 +1 to intelligence
Level 5: Ranger 5


Messara's Equipment:

34 lb
3 lb
2 lb
5 lb

2 lb
2 lb

10 lb
_____
58 lb Weapons / Armor / Shield (from above)
Arrows (quiver of 20) x1
Backpack
Bedroll
Bottle
Bucket
Chain (10 feet) x1
Flint and steel
Rope (50', hempen) x1

Total

[Diovid]

Are you sure you want to play a Centaur? Because 2 LA and 4 RHD is a big price to pay. Besides, being large in a dungeon is usually not a good idea.

If any tauric creature is ok, you might like the Bariaur (from the Planar Handbook, not the one from BoED). It's medium, it only has 1 LA and it has no RHD. There's also the tauric creature template so you can create your own tauric creature but I hear it's pretty wonky.

[Katana_Geldar]

...
Can you say that in English? I'm unfamiliar with 3.5 lingo.

And yes, I want to be a centaur. It's kind of the point.

[only1doug]

one of my players had a centaur, I custom made an item for him that helped with the size issue, but they still struggled with vertical movement (Climbing Vertically is difficult for centaurs)

Bayb (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=6748) Ruthless (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=6749)
I set a limit of 4 size changes per day on the item, which could change Bayb from large to medium and back again.

I had also made a custom advancement, when Bayb started the party were all L1 and she was a very young centaur, she didn't need the armour item until L5 when she finally finished growing to large size.

[Khedrac]

The first question is "what type of centaur do you want?"

I have known a couple of players actually play them, and others do thought-experiment designs.

The first played centaur is a grapple build - he managed to grapple a dragon enough for us to kill it (lucky rolls - it did have the better modifier). He also grappled a lich reducing it to trying its SLA of fireburst - he had evasion so did not even take damage!

The scond centaur, hmm, I am not sure what she is designed to do, but has the feats and skills that she can squeeze down 2 1/2 corridors while large (thus does not get left behind). I am still in touch with thsi player so could ask for the build.

Though experiments: take a level or 3 of duskblade and go dragon disciple... Makes for a huge strength so probably good for a grapple build. If going epic go Warhulk thereafter - you cannot use your Int skills, but you can still cast yoru spells!

Etc.

In short a centaur can cover most non-pure spellcaster roles with a little thought (they won't be as powerful, but can still work OK). They could take a pure spellcasting class but would always be well behind the power curve - this would be sub-optimal and best to do when someone else is the primary caster of that type. Oddly a straight up melee type is one of the trickier builds - with those missing 2 hit dice you can be a "glass cannon" - hitting hard but falling over if hit.

[eruditionfish]

I once played a centaur Ranger in a campaign, and found it quite useful. The racial bonuses gave me a ridiculously high strength and a decent dex without really needing to min-max too badly, so I took the Archery combat style, but mostly just charged in with a greatsword. I did have to be level 7 to have even a single level of Ranger, but even at level 6, that high strength plus having two natural weapons made me quite effective as a melee character. Granted, this was a mostly above-ground campaign, so I can imagine that dungeon-crawling might pose an issue for a Large quadruped.

[Psyren]

...

And yes, I want to be a centaur. It's kind of the point.

I think you misunderstood him. He's asking "do you want to be the exact Centaur creature from the Monster Manual, or do you just want to be a half-(wo)man/half-equine that functions like a Centaur but has far fewer drawbacks?"

If the latter, Bariaur is the way to go.

[Diovid]

I think you misunderstood him. He's asking "do you want to be the exact Centaur creature from the Monster Manual, or do you just want to be a half-(wo)man/half-equine that functions like a Centaur but has far fewer drawbacks?"

If the latter, Bariaur is the way to go.
Yes, basically this. Sorry.

[Urpriest]

How precisely is a Centaur outside of this guy's allowed books. He's playing without the Monster Manual?

Anyway, assuming this is a 7th level campaign...is your Ranger going to be doing Archery or Two-Weapon Fighting later?

Rapid Reload does nothing for a Longbow, and Alertness isn't very useful. I'd get rid of those, and focus on feats that help with whatever combat style you're going for as a Ranger.

[Katana_Geldar]

1. It has to be level 5, they're the requirements of this guys game.
2. There is no 'later' as its a convention game, just one session. I'd just like to play a centaur to see what it's like. And there's very little roleplaying in his game as its hack and slash.
3. From the blurb, he says races must be taken from the PHB and I got this from races of the wild.

[137beth]

1. It has to be level 5, they're the requirements of this guys game.
2. There is no 'later' as its a convention game, just one session. I'd just like to play a centaur to see what it's like. And there's very little roleplaying in his game as its hack and slash.
3. From the blurb, he says races must be taken from the PHB and I got this from races of the wild.

He said "latter", not "later." Anyways, I think that if you like centaurs, you can play the exact one from the MM. Some people probably need to take the cue from the fact that you are playing a centaur/ranger that maybe the point of this character isn't to optimize the heck out of the game.

[only1doug]

1. It has to be level 5, they're the requirements of this guys game.
3. From the blurb, he says races must be taken from the PHB and I got this from races of the wild.

Has to be L5? Has to be from PHB?

The answer is no, unless you can sweet talk him into allowingit you are barred on two counts

1. A centaur is ECL 6 (Level Adjust +2, 4 Racial Hit Dice)
2. Its not from the Players Hand Book.

If you can convince him to allow a non-PHB race you still have to drop 1 level to be L5, the way to go for that is Savage Species Progression, taking 5 levels of the 6 level centaur racial class


He said "latter", not "later." Anyways, I think that if you like centaurs, you can play the exact one from the MM. Some people probably need to take the cue from the fact that you are playing a centaur/ranger that maybe the point of this character isn't to optimize the heck out of the game.

the OP was replying to a Later, not a latter:



Anyway, assuming this is a 7th level campaign...is your Ranger going to be doing Archery or Two-Weapon Fighting later?

[Urpriest]

As others are pointing out, a Centaur simply isn't level 5. At best you could use the progression from Savage Species, but you're not going to be picking up a Ranger level. If you had the impression that you could play a Centaur Ranger 1 at level 5 without houserules then you should probably read my Monster Handbook, as you likely have other misconceptions.

If you need to ask the DM anyway, you might as well as for a Bariaur, as suggested earlier. They're in the Planar Handbook, and are Medium rather than Large, but otherwise look very much like a typical Centaur. LA +1, so you could play one with four levels of Ranger.

[Katana_Geldar]

My current build us using races of the wild rules do I have 4 levels of monstrous humanoid and one of ranger. Is there something wrong with that then?

[Psyren]

They still have +2 LA in RotW. Did you get that waived?

A Centaur Ranger 1 is a level 7 character.

[RandomLunatic]

She is using the monstrous progression from RoTW. Which makes it totally possible to play one at less than ECL 6.

There are still problems. The big one is that you do not hit Large size using the progression until you hit level 6. Your Natural Armor bonus will only be +2. And the ability score adjustments are less-the array you have is valid at a 32-point buy, but I cannot tell from here if you used the right adjustments or not. You only get 3d8 racial hit dice, not 4d8. And the hooves will only do 1d4 damage.

I am not sure why you have a shield. Aside from the fact there really is no reason to ever use a light shield, both of your weapons are two-handers and thus preclude the use of a shield.

Likewise, Rapid Reload does nothing for you-it is meant for crossbows. And Alertness is just terrible. I suggest ditching both for something else.

If you plan on making a grappler, which is a fairly good use of the Centaur's size and strength (Stupid horse! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)), you should pick up Improved Unarmed and Improved Grapple in order, well, grapple. Or, you swap the Ranger level for Monk to get both a bonus feats, and free up your character slots for something else.

[Katana_Geldar]

I would prefer an archer though, and the long spear is so I can charge into melee like a mounted knight.

I thought the fears were a bit suss though and its what I need help with. Any suggestions that way?

[Tvtyrant]

I have a question: Why are you using a Long Spear instead of a lance? You get double damage with a lance on a charge, so it makes more sense if you make a mini-charger IMO.

Something like Centaur Spirit Lion Barbarian 1 would let you pounce with your lance and hoof attacks, which would be do decent damage despite the weaknesses of being a Centaur.

Oh, because you want to be an archer. Okay, need a bone bow or Hank's Bow so you can get strength damage off.

[Katana_Geldar]

Are those named or magic items? There's restrictions on those.

[RandomLunatic]

IDK about the Bone bow, but Hank's Bow (AKA the The Energy Bow (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/animefunkmaster/EnergyBow.jpg)) is a specific weapon.

I would need more about your allowed sources, and how much money you are going to get, but for Core-only, Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot, with a +6 Mighty Composite longbow, will actually give some rather nice damage.

For more detail, I would direct you to The Archery Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=22ehg8vmimk1csh0e85k1oeho4&topic=2892.0).

[Katana_Geldar]

Here is the game, same like it is every time.

http://www.sydcon.info/index.php?module=games&game_id=58

[Urpriest]

She is using the monstrous progression from RoTW. Which makes it totally possible to play one at less than ECL 6.


No she isn't. You can't multiclass out of a racial progression before you finish it, unless it's one of the online ones. Instead, she has forgotten to apply the LA.

OP: given this misunderstanding, I think it would be a good idea for you to read my monster guide, link in sig.

[Psyren]

She is using the monstrous progression from RoTW. Which makes it totally possible to play one at less than ECL 6.

As Urpriest said, you can play one at less than ECL 6, but you cannot start taking class levels before you finish the savage progression.

Unless the DM is houseruling.