How do I hit the 120 Diplomacy DC for Fanatic from Hostile???

[Pika...]

So, I figure it's finally time to make a Bluffomancer/Diplomancer. I am just having a hard time seeing how it is possible to hit the 120 DC to turn a hostile creature into a fanatic creature. :smalleek:

Help...pwease?

[Tyndmyr]

So, I figure it's finally time to make a Bluffomancer/Diplomancer. I am just having a hard time seeing how it is possible to hit the 120 DC to turn a hostile creature into a fanatic creature. :smalleek:

Help...pwease?

Well, first, check to make sure this is an appropriate char for your campaign.

Next, note that hostile to fanatic is 150. As a standard action, you'll want another +10 to balance the negatives. You really, REALLY want to do diplomacy as a standard action, most times.

Note that hostile to friendly is only 45 as a standard action. This is FAR more achievable, and note that diplomancy has a lot of synergy buffs. You should probably start by scooping all of them and dropping 50 gp on a masterwork item.

[demigodus]

1 level of Binder - There is a vestige that lets you take 10, use diplo/bluff as a standard action (instead of 1 minute long) without penalties. Using this, if you hit DC 50 twice, you can achieve the transition in 2 rounds, instead of the full minute for the full DC 120 check. Mostly the important point is getting to do it in 1 standard action. Because nothing hostile is going to let you sweet talk it for a full minute straight.

1 Level of Marshal - aura that lets you add your charisma to charisma based checks again. Also get skill focus

1 level of warlock - invocation that gives you a +6 to diplomacy and bluff for 24 hours

full ranks in them

Skill synergy - +2 to diplomacy from 3 different synergies (bluff, sense motive, and some knowledge I believe), for +6 total

Item familiar - for a cost, double the ranks you have in the skill

Master work item - +2 for 50gp

Divine Insight - 5 + Caster level (max 15) insight bonus to a skill check (Cleric/Paladin, lvl 2 spell)

With these, you might go:
Binder 1 / Marshal 1 / Warlock 1 / Cleric 11 / Something else 6

Get Practiced Spell Caster (Cleric) to get your caster level to 15. That or More in warlock, UMD, and a scroll of Divine Insight at CL 15 (22500gp).

If you start with 18 Cha, +5 from levels, +5 from tomes + 6 from Nymph's Cloak = 34 Cha (+12)

So your total check is:
23 (ranks) + 23 (item familiar) + 2 (masterwork item) + 3 (skill focus) + 6 (Synergy) + 6 (warlock aura) + 12 (Cha) + 12 (Marshal Aura) + 20 (Divine Insight) = +107

Take 10, you get 117. So far you have nothing granting you a competence bonus, so anything that grants you a +5 competence bonus to diplomacy should do it at this point

Although I really would suggest going Hostile -> Friendly -> Fanatic, since then with binder level, you just need a +40, instead of a +110 to your check

EDIT: or a +140 apparently

[Diovid]

I'm not sure if it hits the DC that high but Rogue 1 / Marshal 1 / Rogue +3 / Charlatan 5 / Exemplar 5 / Mountebank 1 / x 4 (I like cabinet trickster for the last levels) using the 1st rogue changeling sub level might be a good way to go. Get the feat Rapscallion if you're allowed. Rapscallion is from dragon magazine 315 and charlatan is from dragon magazine 335.

Marshal gives cha to cha-based skills, Rapscallion gives int to bluff, Mountebank gives int to bluff. Exemplar lets you make bluff checks to change people's attitude. Charlatan is just scary.

[eggs]

Jumplomacy is the easiest way.

[Tyndmyr]

Machoism offers pretty substantial bonus possibilities, based on damage taken, a pale green ioun stone offers a 1 competence bonus on all skill checks.

Also, don't forget the benefit supplied by a healthy charisma. Buffing cha also gives you some boosts(and will affect other skills as well).

Bless gives you a +1 morale bonus to all skills.

You can pull a +20 one time bonus from guidance of the avatar as well.

[Psyren]

1 level of Binder - There is a vestige that lets you take 10, use diplo/bluff as a standard action (instead of 1 minute long) without penalties. Using this, if you hit DC 50 twice, you can achieve the transition in 2 rounds, instead of the full minute for the full DC 120 check. Mostly the important point is getting to do it in 1 standard action. Because nothing hostile is going to let you sweet talk it for a full minute straight.

Just wanted to point out that you don't actually need Binder levels for this. Two feats can get you Naberius' Silver Tongue power, which includes both the ability to take 10 and the standard-action check.

[Temotei]

If your DM allows it, a custom item granting +30 to Diplomacy is a nice bonus.

[Pika...]

Wow, thanks so far folks!

With just one level of Marshal, synergies, being a dragon (bonuses to Cha), and putting my top stat in Cha I already have it at +47 (without items)!

I'll be taking the +10 and going for the Hostile > Friendly > Fanatic in two rounds route.

Now to work on my Bluff a bit, which is only +35. :smallcool:


Edit:
Oops. I forgot my Diplomacy goes to +54 once the Marshal aura kicks in. The Bluff goes to +42. :D

[lunar2]

1 level of Binder - There is a vestige that lets you take 10, use diplo/bluff as a standard action (instead of 1 minute long) without penalties. Using this, if you hit DC 50 twice, you can achieve the transition in 2 rounds, instead of the full minute for the full DC 120 check. Mostly the important point is getting to do it in 1 standard action. Because nothing hostile is going to let you sweet talk it for a full minute straight.

1 Level of Marshal - aura that lets you add your charisma to charisma based checks again. Also get skill focus

1 level of warlock - invocation that gives you a +6 to diplomacy and bluff for 24 hours

full ranks in them

Skill synergy - +2 to diplomacy from 3 different synergies (bluff, sense motive, and some knowledge I believe), for +6 total

Item familiar - for a cost, double the ranks you have in the skill

Master work item - +2 for 50gp

Divine Insight - 5 + Caster level (max 15) insight bonus to a skill check (Cleric/Paladin, lvl 2 spell)

With these, you might go:
Binder 1 / Marshal 1 / Warlock 1 / Cleric 11 / Something else 6

Get Practiced Spell Caster (Cleric) to get your caster level to 15. That or More in warlock, UMD, and a scroll of Divine Insight at CL 15 (22500gp).

If you start with 18 Cha, +5 from levels, +5 from tomes + 6 from Nymph's Cloak = 34 Cha (+12)

So your total check is:
23 (ranks) + 23 (item familiar) + 2 (masterwork item) + 3 (skill focus) + 6 (Synergy) + 6 (warlock aura) + 12 (Cha) + 12 (Marshal Aura) + 20 (Divine Insight) = +107

Take 10, you get 117. So far you have nothing granting you a competence bonus, so anything that grants you a +5 competence bonus to diplomacy should do it at this point

Although I really would suggest going Hostile -> Friendly -> Fanatic, since then with binder level, you just need a +40, instead of a +110 to your check

EDIT: or a +140 apparently

you forgot the domains. good domains are: mind (+2 bluff, diplomacy, sense motive), pleasure (immune to charisma damage and drain), joy (+4 sacred diplomacy), and community (calm emotions 1/day, +2 diplomacy).

[Seerow]

Machoism offers pretty substantial bonus possibilities, based on damage taken, a pale green ioun stone offers a 1 competence bonus on all skill checks.

Also, don't forget the benefit supplied by a healthy charisma. Buffing cha also gives you some boosts(and will affect other skills as well).

Bless gives you a +1 morale bonus to all skills.

You can pull a +20 one time bonus from guidance of the avatar as well.

Is this supposed to be masochism, or is there actually a spell called machoism?

Because a spell that grants you bonuses to skill checks through sheer machoness sounds awesome.

[Madeiner]

Non-hostile questions?

Are there REALLY DMs out there that allow people to be instantly converted from hostile to fanatic in a standard action with diplomacy?

If a player brought to me a character like that i would laugh and their face, because really they can't be serious?

[Tyndmyr]

Is this supposed to be masochism, or is there actually a spell called machoism?

Because a spell that grants you bonuses to skill checks through sheer machoness sounds awesome.

Lol, the former, though I am seriously tempted to homebrew up a spell for Machoism now.


Non-hostile questions?

Are there REALLY DMs out there that allow people to be instantly converted from hostile to fanatic in a standard action with diplomacy?

If a player brought to me a character like that i would laugh and their face, because really they can't be serious?

Meh, it's protected against by immunity to mind-affecting. Therefore, fanaticism actually bothers me less than other applications of diplomacy.

[Douglas]

Try Again

Optional, but not recommended because retries usually do not work. Even if the initial Diplomacy check succeeds, the other character can be persuaded only so far, and a retry may do more harm than good. If the initial check fails, the other character has probably become more firmly committed to his position, and a retry is futile. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm)

The two rounds method doesn't work without a lenient DM.

[Psyren]

Try Again

Optional, but not recommended because retries usually do not work. Even if the initial Diplomacy check succeeds, the other character can be persuaded only so far, and a retry may do more harm than good. If the initial check fails, the other character has probably become more firmly committed to his position, and a retry is futile. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm)

The two rounds method doesn't work without a lenient DM.

I'd say any DM who even considers Diplomancy to begin with would be "lenient."

[GreenSerpent]

Jumplomacy is the easiest way.

You misspelt Assplomancy there.

[137beth]

The two rounds method doesn't work without a lenient DM.
He obviously DOES have a lenient DM, since no one would actually allow him to convert an opponent from hostile to friendly with two d20 rolls and no roleplaying.

EDIT: double ninja'ed:smalleek:

[INoKnowNames]

Non-hostile questions?

Are there REALLY DMs out there that allow people to be instantly converted from hostile to fanatic in a standard action with diplomacy?

If a player brought to me a character like that i would laugh and their face, because really they can't be serious?

I FIND YOUR LACK OF FAITH DISTURBING.

Do, or do not. There is no try.

These are not the Droids you are looking for.

Seems legit to me.

[Psyren]

You misspelt Assplomancy there.

Pervertuoso, anyone?

[Tyndmyr]

I'd say any DM who even considers Diplomancy to begin with would be "lenient."

This is...also true.

[Psyren]

I FIND YOUR LACK OF FAITH DISTURBING.

Do, or do not. There is no try.

These are not the Droids you are looking for.

Seems legit to me.

In fairness, wouldn't the first one be intimidate?

The third was diplomacy, but not only was it a much smaller gap (unfriendly to indifferent I'd say), it involved magic.

I don't think the second was a persuasion check at all, but even if it was, Luke was already Friendly/Helpful.

EDIT: Actually the third one was Bluff, now that I think about it!

[eggs]

You misspelt Assplomancy there.
/looks up
:smalleek:
That's ridiculous.
And inspiring

But seriously, Jump + Strength + Speed bonuses + Exemplar make DC however-many-hundred Diplomacy checks really easy by level 15.

[The Redwolf]

I have nothing constructive to say I'm sorry, except that Seerow, your avatar is awesome.

[INoKnowNames]

In fairness, wouldn't the first one be intimidate?

The third was diplomacy, but not only was it a much smaller gap (unfriendly to indifferent I'd say), it involved magic.

I don't think the second was a persuasion check at all, but even if it was, Luke was already Friendly/Helpful.

Let me be silly, darn it! :smalltongue:

Plus, I'm pretty sure to go from "I want to kill you." to "I will throw myself infront of a Red Dragon for you." will require a little bit of Magic...

And it still got my point across; being overall a trick of the mind to an unwary person. Totally justifiable roleplay; mind warping people.

[demigodus]

Try Again

Optional, but not recommended because retries usually do not work. Even if the initial Diplomacy check succeeds, the other character can be persuaded only so far, and a retry may do more harm than good. If the initial check fails, the other character has probably become more firmly committed to his position, and a retry is futile. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm)

The two rounds method doesn't work without a lenient DM.

Really? A character making anyone with intelligence immediately go from wanting to murder him to friendly, and then worship him is presented, and your only issue is with the fanatic status? Personally I would find the DC 50 or so check to make anyone that isn't brainless start taking risks to help you in 6 seconds flat to be problematic enough, even without the fanatic factor.

[GreenSerpent]

I FIND YOUR LACK OF FAITH DISTURBING.

Do, or do not. There is no try.

These are not the Druids you are looking for.

Seems legit to me.

Fixed that for you.

[Karoht]

Glibness anyone?
Bard spell, adds another, what, 30? It's been a while since Diplo/Bluffo/Jumpomancy shennanigans came up at my table.

[Seerow]

Glibness anyone?
Bard spell, adds another, what, 30? It's been a while since Diplo/Bluffo/Jumpomancy shennanigans came up at my table.

Glibness is Bluff not Diplomacy.

[Piggy Knowles]

From the CO World Records thread, the winning build got around +200 to diplomacy. The original thread is lost, but I did save it for posterity.

(Note: This is not my build - it was originally by user "interested2" on the WotC forums, and I haven't gone over it to make sure everything was legal).

In any case, this is what it was:


Race : Old Magic-Blooded Half-elf
Alignment : Chaotic Good.
Traits: Polite, Honest
Flaws: Inattentive, Noncombatant

Stats with 32 pb :
Str : 6
Dex : 10
Con : 10
Int : 15
Wis : 14
Cha : 18

1. Half-Elf Bard Substitution Level 1 – Nymph’s Kiss, Sacred Vow, Extra Music
2. Warlock 1 (Invocation : Beguiling Influence)
3. Bard 2 - Vow of Nonviolence
4. Cleric 1 (Mind, Herald)
5. Marshal 1 (Aura : Motivate Charisma)
6. Half-Elf Paragon 1 – Persuasive, Courteous Mageocracy(B)
7. Half-Elf Paragon 2
8. Half-Elf Paragon 3 (+2 Cha)
9. Human Paragon 1 (Invocation : See the Unseen) – Leadership(B)
10. Human Paragon 2 – Item Familiar
11. Human Paragon 3 (+2 Cha)
12. Exemplar 1 – Vow of Peace
13. Evangelist 1
14. Evangelist 2
15. Evangelist 3 - Trustworthy
16. Evangelist 4
17. Evangelist 5
18. Psychic Warrior 1 – Psicrystal Affinity(B), Alluring
19. Psychic Warrior 2 - Bonus Psychic Warrior Feat
20. Contemplative 1 (Bonus Domain: Any, Charm suggested)

Must have items(cohort and master):
Cloak of Charisma +6 (36,000gp)
Eye of Horus (13,200gp) [for item familiar]
+30 diplomacy item (90,000gp)
Helm of Telepathy (27,000gp)
Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 (137,500gp).
Mwk Tool (500gp)
Circlet of Persuasion (4,500gp)
Wendsday's Left Eye (6,000gp)
Pendant of Joy (5,000gp)

Your cohort is exactly the same as you are, only two levels lower and venerable.

Your cohorts cohort is a Wizard 14/Divine Oracle 2 with an Orange ioun stone and a Ring of Arcane Might. He does the spellcasting.

+217 to diplomacy at level 20, and Skill Mastery lets you take 10 (so 227). Take a -5 on the check to make it as a full round action (Evangelist). Bam, you can now instantly convert anything that can hear/understand you (permanent tongues is a good thing, or just get a Helm of Telepathy) from Hostile to Fanatic. You also end up with a bonus domain, which you can really dump anything into, and a bonus psychic warrior feat. Not to mention the extra skill points that Nymph's Kiss provides really help with that item familiar. You could also grab the Charm domain with your contemplative bonus domain, and get +4 to the check once per day.

Note that its completely reasonable to get items with bonuses to bluff, intimidate, and sense motive checks to go along with this. There's really a fair bit of room to work with, gear-wise, for this guy.

Updated: My math is shown below:

Your Cha:
18 base
+2 magic-blooded
+2 half-elf paragon
+2 human paragon
+2 age
+5 levels
+5 book
+6 cloak
= 42 (+16)

Your Cohorts Cha:
18 base
+2 magic-blooded
+2 half-elf paragon
+2 human paragon
+3 age
+4 levels
+5 book
+6 cloak
= 42 (+16)

Diplomacy check for your cohort:
21 ranks
+16 charisma
+16 aura
+6 unnamed (beguiling influence)
+3 racial (half-elf paragon)
+3 unnamed (skill focus(diplomacy))
+2 unnamed, (alluring)
+2 unnamed (courteous mageocracy)
+2 unnamed (trustworthy)
+2 perfection (sacred vow)
+4 exalted (vow of peace)
+2 synergy (bluff)
+2 synergy (sense motive)
+2 synergy (knowledge: religion and nobility)
+21 unnamed, (item familiar)
+30 competence (custom skill item)
+3 synergy (complementary insight)
+3 unnamed, psicrystal affinity (friendly personality)
+2 circumstance (nymph's kiss)
+4 sacred (herald domain)
+2 unnamed (mind domain)
+5 unnamed (friendly face)
+2 circumstance (mwk tool)
+1 unnamed (polite trait)
+1 unnamed (honest trait)
+3 circumstance (circlet of persuasion)
+4 unnamed (wendsday's left eye)
+20 insight (moment of prescience)
+5 morale (pendant of joy)
+2 enhancement (commanding armor)
=+191 diplomacy
Skill mastery makes you take 10
=201 diplomacy

Your cohort then turns that around into a circumstance bonus for your check. Your check now looks like this:

23 ranks
+16 charisma
+16 aura
+6 unnamed (beguiling influence)
+3 racial (half-elf paragon)
+3 unnamed (skill focus(diplomacy))
+2 unnamed, (alluring)
+2 unnamed (courteous mageocracy)
+2 unnamed (trustworthy)
+2 perfection (sacred vow)
+4 exalted (vow of peace)
+2 synergy (bluff)
+2 synergy (sense motive)
+2 synergy (knowledge: religion and nobility)
+23 unnamed, (item familiar)
+30 competence (custom skill item)
+3 synergy (complementary insight)
+3 unnamed, psicrystal affinity (friendly personality)
+2 circumstance (nymph's kiss)
+4 sacred (herald domain)
+2 unnamed (mind domain)
+5 unnamed (friendly face)
+2 circumstance (mwk tool)
+21 circumstance (cohort's aid another)
+1 unnamed (polite trait)
+1 unnamed (honest trait)
+3 circumstance (circlet of persuasion)
+4 unnamed (wendsday's left eye)
+20 insight (moment of prescience)
+5 morale (pendant of joy)
+2 unnamed (fleeting fame)
+2 enhancement (commanding armor)
=+216 diplomacy
Skill mastery makes you take 10
=227 diplomacy
Rushed check : only -5 (Evangelist).
=222.

150 is the result needed to turn Hostile to Fanatic, so even with a -70 circumstance penalty, you'll still make the check. Always. Every time.