Flying Mount Ideas?

[LanSlyde]

Currently I'm rolling up a Goliath(RoS) Barbarian(PHB) /Champion of Gwynharwyf(BoED) and I got this wild idea of giving him a flying mount. I took a look at Griffons(MM) but even with the Warbeast(MM2) template he still beats out Cherubs (I named the thing |^_^|) Light Load Capacity. Now, I'm not sure if that will effect his flight(can't find any info |-_-|), but if it does what would you people suggest as an alternative?

I'd like something that also tends to make its home in mountainous regions, makes it easier to work into his backstory. Please and thank you.

[That_guy_there]

Currently I'm rolling up a Goliath(RoS) Barbarian(PHB) /Champion of Gwynharwyf(BoED) and I got this wild idea of giving him a flying mount. I took a look at Griffons(MM) but even with the Warbeast(MM2) template he still beats out Cherubs (I named the thing |^_^|) Light Load Capacity. Now, I'm not sure if that will effect his flight(can't find any info |-_-|), but if it does what would you people suggest as an alternative?

I'd like something that also tends to make its home in mountainous regions, makes it easier to work into his backstory. Please and thank you.

A flying creature usually cannot fly with more than a light load. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Fly_speed#Fly)

Sir, I believe you are looking for a Roc with the Warbeast template raised from an egg by your local friendly Druid (you have one on call, right? :smallwink: )

[LanSlyde]

A flying creature usually cannot fly with more than a light load. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Fly_speed#Fly)

Sir, I believe you are looking for a Roc with the Warbeast template raised from an egg by your local friendly Druid (you have one on call, right? :smallwink: )

Considering the BBEG of the campaign has a War-Tarrasque? Yes. However I would like something a bit more feasible than a Roc.

[Ninja PieKing]

Young dragon cohort maybe

[Gavinfoxx]

Warbeast Magebred Dragonhawk.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Perhaps you can get cherub as an advanced griffon? It's only 4 extra HD. His light load would then be 1,836lbs. Even one more HD can get him a str increase and another 48lbs.

You could also ask about a non-standard or heroic griffon. It's not a template. Since all non-humanoid creatures in the MM are typical specimens of their race, their abilities before racial adjustment are 10 on the even scores and 11 on the odd ones. A non-standard griffon would adjust these by -2, -2, ±0, ±0, +2, +2 in whichever order you choose. A heroic griffon would adjust its abilities by +4, +4, +2, +2, ±0, -2 again in whatever order you choose. Either would get cherub that little bit of extra lift.

[LanSlyde]

Warbeast Magebred Dragonhawk.

Sounds cool, but where is magebred and dragon hawk located?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Sounds cool, but where is magebred and dragon hawk located?

Magebred is in ECS. I'm not sure but I think dragonhawk may be in dragon magic.

[Gavinfoxx]

Online and one of the Ebberon books. 5 nations I think.

[Antonok]

Five Nations has the Dragonhawk; Magebred is in Ebberon Campaign Setting

[LanSlyde]

Five Nations has the Dragonhawk; Magebred is in Ebberon Campaign Setting

Dragon Hawk would suit my needs, but I think I'll go ahead and ask the DM about advancing Cherubs HD. I've already grown attached to the poor thing. |^_^|

Edit: Incidentially, I'm kinda new at the whole monster editing thing.. so how exactly would I go about doing that?

[Seerow]

Fake edit: Already typed the stuff below, and then realized it was already suggested. I just saw people talking about Dragon Hawks and Dragon Cohorts and wanted to suggest something sticking closer to the OP's initial idea. Oh well.


Have you considered getting a Griffon with HD advanced until it becomes Huge?

That gives it a pretty big boost to strength and a multiplier on carrying capacity, which should be more than enough.

Though honestly, how heavy is your Goliath? Griffon starts with 18 strength, and is a large quadruped, making its light load 300lbs. Adding warbeast gets that up to 459.

If you need more than that, as noted adding 3 hit dice plus the one hit die from warbeast gets you up to 11 HD for huge, and is still only up to CR6. This gets you another +8 strength, and increases the multiplier, so the Griffon can carry 2796 lbs.



Read Edit: In general advancing a creature via hit dice is done more or less at DM whim. A higher hit dice creature is just a more potent form of the creature. Since Griffons are magical beasts, they advance at the rate of 1 CR per 3 hit dice. The griffon entry states that you increase in size category at 11 hit dice. You start with 7 hit dice, add 1 with warbeast, and then gain 3 more through normal advancement, ending with 11 hit dice, and increasing to huge size, gaining all of the benefits associated with such.

[Antonok]

Dragon Hawk would suit my needs, but I think I'll go ahead and ask the DM about advancing Cherubs HD. I've already grown attached to the poor thing. |^_^|

Theres also the route of Animal Growth plus a Permanency which would cost (roughly) 8600 gold; but has some nice advantages to it.

[Seerow]

Theres also the route of Animal Growth plus a Permanency which would cost (roughly) 8600 gold; but has some nice advantages to it.

I don't think Animal Growth works on a Magical Beast. (If it did, that would be something worth considering even after advancing hit dice, especially if you want Cherub to be a combatant and not just a means of transportation.

[LanSlyde]

Have you considered getting a Griffon with HD advanced until it becomes Huge?

Thats what I am currently trying to accomplish.



Though honestly, how heavy is your Goliath? Griffon starts with 18 strength, and is a large quadruped, making its light load 300lbs. Adding warbeast gets that up to 459.

Total? Between the 40lb saddle and Balguuf(my goliath) his total load is 418lb.. my goliath is a big guy with big maces...




If you need more than that, as noted adding 3 hit dice plus the one hit die from warbeast gets you up to 11 HD for huge, and is still only up to CR6. This gets you another +8 strength, and increases the multiplier, so the Griffon can carry 2796 lbs.


Right, but is there actually a progression chart somewhere than I can see all this for myself?

[Seerow]

Right, but is there actually a progression chart somewhere than I can see all this for myself?


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/griffon.htm <-Griffon page, this is where it tells you how many hit dice it takes to increase size (see "Advancement")

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingHitDice <-Rules for adding hit dice to a monster, including what those hit dice provide. (States Magical Beast is 1 CR per 3 hit dice)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases <-Rules for what changes when a monster increases size categories from hit dice (as opposed to spells or whatever, which follow their own rules)


Hope that helps!



Edit: One thing I forgot.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#increasingHitDice <-Rules for what hit dice for different creature types give. You're looking at magical beast.

[LanSlyde]

I don't think Animal Growth works on a Magical Beast. (If it did, that would be something worth considering even after advancing hit dice, especially if you want Cherub to be a combatant and not just a means of transportation.

Well, I suppose I'd like him to defend himself if needed, but mainly I was going to use him for transport and scouting. I like the idea of jumping out of the saddle on a flyby and doing this: http://i.imgur.com/R1iO3.jpg

[LanSlyde]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/griffon.htm <-Griffon page, this is where it tells you how many hit dice it takes to increase size (see "Advancement")

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingHitDice <-Rules for adding hit dice to a monster, including what those hit dice provide. (States Magical Beast is 1 CR per 3 hit dice)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases <-Rules for what changes when a monster increases size categories from hit dice (as opposed to spells or whatever, which follow their own rules)


Hope that helps!



Edit: One thing I forgot.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#increasingHitDice <-Rules for what hit dice for different creature types give. You're looking at magical beast.

+1 Internets to you sir. :smallbiggrin:

[Seerow]

Basically a 11 HD Warbeast Griffon will look something like:

Cherub

Huge Magical Beast
11d10+66 (126 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 40 ft. (6 squares), fly 90 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 18 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +9 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +11/+29
Attack: Bite +20 melee (3d6+10)
Full Attack: Bite +20 melee (3d6+10) and 2 claws +16 melee (1d6+5)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Pounce, rake 1d8+5
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +8, Will +7
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 13, Con 23, Int 5, Wis 15, Cha 8
Skills: Jump +18, Listen +8, Spot +12 [add 4 skill ranks]
Feats: Iron Will, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (bite), [Pick one feat]
Challenge Rating: 6

Unless I missed something, which is possible, it is pretty late.

[Demidos]

Soarwhale. 10k for a flying whale. You cannot find a better investment. :smalltongue:

[Seerow]

Soarwhale. 10k for a flying whale. You cannot find a better investment. :smalltongue:

What is the source on this? It sounds amazing.

[The Redwolf]

Considering the BBEG of the campaign has a War-Tarrasque? Yes. However I would like something a bit more feasible than a Roc.

Alright, nobody is going to leap on this one? That's nuts! (Also it should be inviable considering the tarrasque is a unique creature that only wakes up for short periods of times with years in between so there needs to be a good explanation for this or I'm dubious)

[Seerow]

Alright, nobody is going to leap on this one? That's nuts! (Also it should be inviable considering the tarrasque is a unique creature that only wakes up for short periods of times with years in between so there needs to be a good explanation for this or I'm dubious)

This is one of those situations where I shrug and say that the default fluff is obviously not the only fluff a game can go with.

Personally I'd take a flying mount over a tarrasque any day of the week (and twice on Tuesdays, that's when those annoying level 5 wizards attack), but if a DM wants to make his BBEG have a war trained tarrasque to ride around on, who's going to tell him no? It's all in good fun.


I do still want to hear more about these flying whales.


Edit: Okay a google search later and apparently it's either from AAEG or some 3rd party splat. I'll have to check into it later.

[The Redwolf]

This is one of those situations where I shrug and say that the default fluff is obviously not the only fluff a game can go with.

Personally I'd take a flying mount over a tarrasque any day of the week (and twice on Tuesdays, that's when those annoying level 5 wizards attack), but if a DM wants to make his BBEG have a war trained tarrasque to ride around on, who's going to tell him no? It's all in good fun.


I do still want to hear more about these flying whales.

I'll give you that, I agree, it sounds like a lot of fun, I was just surprised that nobody asked what the justification is yet. I would find it hilarious if something like this happened in a campaign I was in, I just like to know why things are the way they are. I also want to know about the flying whales.

(If I beat you up can I have 5 silver points? :smallbiggrin: )

[Seerow]

I'll give you that, I agree, it sounds like a lot of fun, I was just surprised that nobody asked what the justification is yet. I would find it hilarious if something like this happened in a campaign I was in, I just like to know why things are the way they are. I also want to know about the flying whales.

(If I beat you up can I have 5 silver points? :smallbiggrin: )

You can even have 15 :smallcool:

[LanSlyde]

I'll give you that, I agree, it sounds like a lot of fun, I was just surprised that nobody asked what the justification is yet. I would find it hilarious if something like this happened in a campaign I was in, I just like to know why things are the way they are. I also want to know about the flying whales.


Well, us being a silly group that has been at this game for quite a long time, we were discussing the BBEG(A war troll), who in this campaign is the defacto ruler of an entire continent. He also happens to have the STR to arm wrestle Odin and have a better than even chance at winning. So we kinda collectively agreed he should have a Tarrasque as a mount.

[Deophaun]

First things first: If carrying capacity is an issue, get your flying mount some magic barding with the easy travel property. An inexpensive means of doubling its light load.

Next: Have you looked at an Ecalypse? (Manual of the Planes)

[Kelb_Panthera]

Soarwhale is in WoTC's Arms and Equipment Guide.

I completely forgot about magic items. :smallredface:

You could just get cherub a belt of giant's strength +2 and you're good to go.

[LanSlyde]

First things first: If carrying capacity is an issue, get your flying mount some magic barding with the easy travel property. An inexpensive means of doubling its light load.

Next: Have you looked at an Ecalypse? (Manual of the Planes)

Looks interesting, maybe something for my shadowcaster I have rolled up, but as it stands no bueno.

[Doorhandle]

Alright, nobody is going to leap on this one? That's nuts! (Also it should be inviable considering the tarrasque is a unique creature that only wakes up for short periods of times with years in between so there needs to be a good explanation for this or I'm dubious)

Well, If you put a tarrasque under an intensive training program you could come up with something pretty nuts. :smalltongue:

Seriously though, building muscle is basically damaging them through exercise until they grow back stronger. The Tarrasque's regeneration means you could put it though a hellish training regime and still have it fresh and ready tomorrow, to say nothing of how much time will be saved.

Also, if you allow pathfinder, consider asking for Ant haul, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/ant-haul) or developing a similar spell. It could be quiiiiiite profitable, tripling carrying capacity like that. :smallbiggrin:

[Valdras]

Too bad this isn't Pathfinder, because I would tell you to go ranger and take this Archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/sable-company-marine)

[whibla]

A flying creature usually cannot fly with more than a light load. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Fly_speed#Fly)

"A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load."

I would argue that this does not mean what you think it means. If I said:

"A creature can walk at its given movement rate if carrying no more than a light load."

Would you interpret this to mean that once a character reaches moderate encumbrance he can no longer walk? Or that he can no longer walk at his full speed?

[LanSlyde]

Too bad this isn't Pathfinder, because I would tell you to go ranger and take this Archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/sable-company-marine)

Good thing its not Pathfinder, because I would tell you that we already have a ranger and I don't want to show her up. |^_^|

Also, I just plain don't like rangers.

[The Redwolf]

You can even have 15 :smallcool:

I knew 5 sounded wrong, it's just been forever since I've played...one of the best games ever though.



Well, us being a silly group that has been at this game for quite a long time, we were discussing the BBEG(A war troll), who in this campaign is the defacto ruler of an entire continent. He also happens to have the STR to arm wrestle Odin and have a better than even chance at winning. So we kinda collectively agreed he should have a Tarrasque as a mount.

That's rather impressive if he managed to pull that off, especially since deities roll natural 20's automatically. I would avoid getting hit by him, otherwise you might go down in one hit...and if not he has that tarrasque...

[Randomguy]

You could get a Half-Dragon Warhorse. That should be able to carry 920lb as a light load. Or a half dragon Rhinoceros. Oh, even better, a half dragon dire boar! Aren't templates fun?

I think there's also a winged template somewhere, so you could also try using that rather than the half dragon template.

[LanSlyde]

That's rather impressive if he managed to pull that off, especially since deities roll natural 20's automatically. I would avoid getting hit by him, otherwise you might go down in one hit...and if not he has that tarrasque...

Ah my bad, I said odin didn't I? I meant thor, oops. But yes, avoid letting him touch you. Interestingly enough some of fluff about him involves tunneling through a mountain with his bare hands just because of a bet. His direction was off and he ended up going through the entire mountain chain. Interestingly enough this tunnel now serves as one of the main trade routes through the Hegemony(his kingdom).

[LanSlyde]

You could get a Half-Dragon Warhorse. That should be able to carry 920lb as a light load. Or a half dragon Rhinoceros. Oh, even better, a half dragon dire boar! Aren't templates fun?

I think there's also a winged template somewhere, so you could also try using that rather than the half dragon template.

I thank you for the input, but I have settled on my Cherub.

Besides, I don't like the idea that at some point, some where, a dragon thought that a horse, rhino, and boar was sexy.:smalleek:

[Downysole]

I thank you for the input, but I have settled on my Cherub.

Besides, I don't like the idea that at some point, some where, a dragon thought that a horse, rhino, and boar was sexy.:smalleek:

The dragon was drunk and couldn't remember what shape his druid lady friend was in. Boy was she upset!

Griffon mounts are just plain old cool, aren't they? I got a character through an adventure and decided to go in this direction, but the DM stopped running just after I finished writing the whole thing up. Very disappointing.

[Seerow]

The dragon was drunk and couldn't remember what shape his druid lady friend was in. Boy was she upset!

Griffon mounts are just plain old cool, aren't they? I got a character through an adventure and decided to go in this direction, but the DM stopped running just after I finished writing the whole thing up. Very disappointing.

Story of my adventuring career. I've always loved Griffons, never quite manage to get a Griffon mount for a character during a timeframe where it would actually be relevant. (ie by the time I can get it, characters are high enough level the poor thing would die to splash damage in the first fight, so I just go without)

[LanSlyde]

Story of my adventuring career. I've always loved Griffons, never quite manage to get a Griffon mount for a character during a timeframe where it would actually be relevant. (ie by the time I can get it, characters are high enough level the poor thing would die to splash damage in the first fight, so I just go without)

Well, as I said, he will mainly be used for transport and the occasional scouting run. If we are attacked in the air I can jump off and fly myself(Celestial Armor |^_^|).

Edit: While normally I could not get this guy at the level my goliath is starting, with our group if you can fluff it well enough you can get away with a lot of things. So long as your back-story is written well enough.:smallbiggrin:

[Kelb_Panthera]

I thank you for the input, but I have settled on my Cherub.

Besides, I don't like the idea that at some point, some where, a dragon thought that a horse, rhino, and boar was sexy.:smalleek:

Actually, half-dragon could still be useful. SS had rules for aquiring inherited templates via ritual or wish spell. That exta 8 str and a breath weapon could be very nice. Make sure cherub picks up draconic breath (RotD) for his next feat, if you go this route.

[thubby]

does it have to be a mount in the traditional sense? i don't suppose you could work with a flying chariot deal. you'd need more animals but the weight thing becomes less of an issue.

[LanSlyde]

does it have to be a mount in the traditional sense? i don't suppose you could work with a flying chariot deal. you'd need more animals but the weight thing becomes less of an issue.

Doesn't necessarily have to be, but Cherubs going to be a lifetime companion. So I'm thinking of even having Telepathic Bond established between them permanently.

[That_guy_there]

"A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load."

I would argue that this does not mean what you think it means. If I said:

"A creature can walk at its given movement rate if carrying no more than a light load."

Would you interpret this to mean that once a character reaches moderate encumbrance he can no longer walk? Or that he can no longer walk at his full speed?

I get what you're saying here, and in fact when a character walking/ running has a medium or heavy load they're speed is reduced.

So I went and looked in the Rules Compendium (because it was actually easier to find than my hardcopt of my DMG or MM) and on page 91 it explicitedly says "most creatures can't fly if carrying a medium or heavy load. A creature's description takes precidence over these general rules."

So there you go. In this case it is exactly that a creature with a moderate encumberance [I]can no longer fly[I]. (unless their description specifically says they can)

[thubby]

could always buy it a belt of giant strength

[LanSlyde]

could always buy it a belt of giant strength

Thanks for the input, but I have already decided on advancing his hit die.

[LanSlyde]

Cherub
Female Neutral War Gryffon, Level 11, Init +1, HP 176/176,

Speed 40 (Fly 90 Average)

AC 18 (+1 Dex, -2 Size, +9 Natural), Touch 9, Flat-footed 17,

Fort +12, Ref +7, Will +7,

Base Attack Bonus 11/6/1

Natural Attack Bite Attack- (18/13/8 (+1)) Damage- (3d6 + 9)

Natural Attack Claw X2 (-) Attack- (11/13/8 (-2)) Damage- (1d6 +9) X2,)

Abilities Str 29, Dex 13, Con 23, Int 5, Wis 15, Cha 8


We tend to use max hp for things in our games, which is why his hp seems so high.

We also have a house rule that states feats are gained at 1st, 2nd, and every even level after.

With that in mind:

(1) Iron Will: +2 Will Saves

(2) Multiattack: secondary natural weapons have -2 penalty to attack

(3) Weapon Focus (Bite)

(4) Flyby attack: Use a standard action during a move action

(5) Snatch: Successful attack with Claws or Bite allows for a free grapple attempt

(6) Wingover: Turn up to 180 Degrees as a free action

[whibla]

...So I went and looked in the Rules Compendium (because it was actually easier to find than my hardcopt of my DMG or MM) and on page 91 it explicitedly says "most creatures can't fly if carrying a medium or heavy load. A creature's description takes precidence over these general rules."

So there you go. In this case it is exactly that a creature with a moderate encumberance [I]can no longer fly[I]. (unless their description specifically says they can)

Fair enough, it appears I have been playing it wrong all these years. As far as I can tell there is no such explicit rule in either the DMG, PHB, or the MM, and believe me I have looked. Long and hard...

The only explicit reference to it I could find was in the description of the Asperi in MM2, and I chalked that up to ... well, being in the MM2, tbh. The amount of rubbish that finds its way into later supplements...

It does kind of make me wonder if the authors have ever watched a kestrel pick up a rabbit and fly off, or an osprey catching fish, or if these would merely be considered exceptions to the rule.

That aside, thank you for finding that rule. Much appreciated!

*As a DM, I probably won't abide by it, in all honesty. I find that reducing a flying creature's speed according to the encumbrance rules and, additionally, reducing its manoeuverability by 1 step for a medium load, and 2 more steps for a heavy load fits my sense of 'realism' slightly better. :smallbiggrin:

[That_guy_there]

Fair enough, it appears I have been playing it wrong all these years. As far as I can tell there is no such explicit rule in either the DMG, PHB, or the MM, and believe me I have looked. Long and hard...

The only explicit reference to it I could find was in the description of the Asperi in MM2, and I chalked that up to ... well, being in the MM2, tbh. The amount of rubbish that finds its way into later supplements...

It does kind of make me wonder if the authors have ever watched a kestrel pick up a rabbit and fly off, or an osprey catching fish, or if these would merely be considered exceptions to the rule.

That aside, thank you for finding that rule. Much appreciated!

*As a DM, I probably won't abide by it, in all honesty. I find that reducing a flying creature's speed according to the encumbrance rules and, additionally, reducing its manoeuverability by 1 step for a medium load, and 2 more steps for a heavy load fits my sense of 'realism' slightly better. :smallbiggrin:

No problem, I did eventually find my hardcopy DMG and couldn't find the reference.

What you said makes sense though, I might use that the next time the flying issue comes up in campaigns I'm running.

[Invader]

Alright, nobody is going to leap on this one? That's nuts! (Also it should be inviable considering the tarrasque is a unique creature that only wakes up for short periods of times with years in between so there needs to be a good explanation for this or I'm dubious)

I was wondering the same thing as you. I like that a roc is less feasible that a warbeast magebread griffon lol. :smallamused:

[LanSlyde]

I was wondering the same thing as you. I like that a roc is less feasible that a warbeast magebread griffon lol. :smallamused:

Well, equally infeasible, a simply griffon however totally works. |^_^|