Binder

[ThatKreacher]

So I'm planning on playing a Binder in a campaign, and I was wondering if you playgrounders could give me a few tips for playing a Binder, both role playing and using one in combat. I did have an idea about being secretive about my being a Binder. So I won't tell the rest of the group exactly what I am, but give them the idea I'm decent combatant and can cast a few spells. What d'you guys think?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Handbook! (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2942.0) As for roleplaying, you're not quite dealing with the devil. Also, check the sidebar on heterodoxy in ToB for some roleplaying ideas.

[Psyren]

The one difficulty with hiding what you are is that you have to go off on your own every morning to draw circles. You also have to be careful with vestiges, especially if your DM wants you to RP the binding check (and gives you a penalty if you do it badly.)

What level are you starting at, and what stats? Binder tactics change pretty drastically depending on their level.

[Timeless Error]

...tips for playing a Binder...role playing...

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197133) should tell you all you need to know about roleplaying a Binder. :smallwink:

Almost completely off-topic, but I had to.

[ThatKreacher]

This should tell you all you need to know about roleplaying a Binder.
My oh my. That is wonderful. Simply wonderful.

Most likely starting of at Lvl 1. I'd like to be a Dwarf or Human. 18, 10, 16, 12, 15, 17 are my rolled scores. That's most likely any information of note, if you want anything else ask. Not entirely sure on the other roles of the party.

[Psyren]

My oh my. That is wonderful. Simply wonderful.

Most likely starting of at Lvl 1. I'd like to be a Dwarf or Human. 18, 10, 16, 12, 15, 17 are my rolled scores. That's most likely any information of note, if you want anything else ask. Not entirely sure on the other roles of the party.

Nice rolls; if you go Human, I would assign as follows:

18 Str
15 Dex
16 Con
10 Int
12 Wis
17 Cha

Go for a gish/tank build and pump Str.

I recommend your feats be Improved Binding and Ignore Special Requirements. Combat-wise, the best low-level vestiges are Leraje (ranged) and Savnok (melee) while the best social vestige is Naberius. Leraje is tricky to use without ISR unless your DM lets you break any arrow, or elven arrows are easy to find.

[ThatKreacher]

If I'm going melee, shouldn't I get Martial Weapon Proficiency, or Weapon Focus, as well as Improved Binding? Because if I plan on gishing/tanking some combat prowess wpuld be useful, correct? I plan of becoming a KoSS and I do believe weapon focus is a pre-requisite.

[Psyren]

KotSS gives you MWP so don't waste any feats on that. Until then, a morningstar will do just fine for melee. Leraje gives you the bow proficiencies you'd need to use her effectively.

Yes, Weapon Focus is a prereq for KotSS, but you have until 6 to get that, so no rush.

[ThatKreacher]

Alrighty. Thanks for the advice, Psyren. And the Link Thrice Dead Cat gave was definitely the best handbook I've read, truly.

[Sutremaine]

KotSS gives you MWP so don't waste any feats on that.
On the other hand, KotSS requires Weapon Focus and you can't take that with a weapon in which you aren't proficient. So if you switch weapons after getting MWP, that feat will be going to waste instead. But morningstars are fine by themselves if you can get hold of the Greater Mighty Wallop spell.

Edit: There's also the Aptitude weapon enhancement, which would let your WF function with any weapon that has it.

[Spuddles]

Picking up WF at level 1 will be a huge increase in your to hit relative to picking it up later, so it may not be a bad idea to snag it with your human bonus feat.

[Thurbane]

If you're going to go into KotSS (which is awesome for a Binder Tank), maybe try to get a race with a natural weapon or bonus martial/exotic weapon proficiency, so you don't need to use the Weapon Focus feat you need for KotSS on a simple weapon.

Picking up WF at level 1 will be a huge increase in your to hit relative to picking it up later, so it may not be a bad idea to snag it with your human bonus feat.
Except that a Binder 1 doesn't have the req BAB +1 to take Weapon Focus.

[Bloodgruve]

If your DM allows some homebrew this (http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22) is just awesome. Totemist2/Binder3/Midnight Occultist10/Kotss5

Totemist could give you a bunch of natural weapons until you get into MO and then you just invest essentia into whatever vestige looks fun. This will be my next character...

GL
Blood~

[Psyren]

Alrighty. Thanks for the advice, Psyren. And the Link Thrice Dead Cat gave was definitely the best handbook I've read, truly.

You're welcome! Do note that Let's Make a Deal was never finished (unfortunately - I really loved that guide :smallfrown:) so if you need advice on the other vestiges you can use the main Binder handbook. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11235)

I disagree with Sobolev's Savnok rating too. Yeah he's underwhelming at late levels when you can afford good armor and likely have KotSS for proficiencies. But at first-level he's dynamite. 20 AC is a lot, and you get it for free, letting you spend your starter gold on other things, and DR 1 can save you a lot of HP early on, especially since it means you defeat the "all attacks do minimum one damage" rule.


On the other hand, KotSS requires Weapon Focus and you can't take that with a weapon in which you aren't proficient. So if you switch weapons after getting MWP, that feat will be going to waste instead. But morningstars are fine by themselves if you can get hold of the Greater Mighty Wallop spell.

Edit: There's also the Aptitude weapon enhancement, which would let your WF function with any weapon that has it.

Eh, I would consider just writing the feat off. It's not the first PrC to have a dead feat req after all.

OP could always do a fighter dip; Improved Binding does nothing past 18 anyway so one might as well put those two levels to use.

Or better yet, Paladin (of X) 2 for Divine Grace.

[Sutremaine]

I was toying with the idea of taking a couple of Warblade levels with my Binder (Paimon-KotSS). I could use Blood In The Water pretty well (accidently used KotSS to qualify for itself, was attached to having a Keen scimitar by the time I noticed). On the other hand, those two levels could go to investing in the prereqs for Midnight Occultist, and after completing KotSS the Binder class levels start looking a little sad and incarnum has so many shiny toys to play with. I dunno, I'll see how it goes.