Spellthief/Wizard questions

[umbergod]

A concept I have for a character is a human spellthief/wizard. I'm debating on the merits of master spellthief over that of practiced spellcaster, as my build is going to contain at least a handful of daggerspell mage (for flavor).

My question is would I be better off with master spellthief or practiced spellcaster? All I see myself gaining from practiced spellcaster is 2 caster levels between 1 spellthief level and the 1st daggerspell mage level. However, master spellthief would allow me to steal spells as if I were at 19th level spellthief.

Which would be better in the long run for a sneaky, dual dagger wielding caster?

[Waddacku]

In this case, Practiced Spellcaster seems to give you nothing that Master Spellthief doesn't already do, and it gives more as well.
Unless you meant a Practiced Spellcaster build without Spellthief levels? Because obviously, that gives you faster access to higher levels spells, and more spellslots.
Arguably, you could use both feats and boost your caster level to above your character level.

[umbergod]

In this case, Practiced Spellcaster seems to give you nothing that Master Spellthief doesn't already do, and it gives more as well.
Unless you meant a Practiced Spellcaster build without Spellthief levels? Because obviously, that gives you faster access to higher levels spells, and more spellslots.
Arguably, you could use both feats and boost your caster level to above your character level.

Well I want to avoid any shenanigans, I was mostly looking at Master Spellthief giving me a +1 CL from my spellthief level, and the ability to cast arcane spells in light armor with no spell failure. I wouldn't really be able to steal anything beyond 0 and 1st level spells, even with Master Spellthief, as holding stolen spells is based on spellthief levels, and the feat makes no mention of that, just my ability to steal.

[Amoren]

Personally, I'd rule that Master Spellthief does grant you the capacity to hold spell charges, but that's just me. Either way, I'd vote on Master Spellthief - because at the very least you're burning an enemy mages high level spell slot with each sneak attack. And, since I don't think there's a limit to how many times you can steal a spell per round, you can effectively strip a wizard's highest level spells away in one full attack.

Casting in light armor is a nice boon, but probably not going to be the most effective AC wise (does save you from casting mage armor every day, though). That said, unless you're going to top the build with Unseen Seer, I think its a no contest. If you are going Unseen Seer, in part, Practiced Spellcaster might be worth it for making up on the Unseen Seer caster level hit.

[eggs]

If you use Unseen Seer (which is excellent in this kind of build), you'll be using Practiced Spellcaster anyway. And unless your DM is being deliberately generous with Master Spellthief and spell recasting, it's pretty inconsequential beside the armored casting.

[nedz]

MS gives you more than PS, though you should consider PS as well if your build still leaves you with CL < HD after MS.



Arguably, you could use both feats and boost your caster level to above your character level.

Neither Master Spellthief nor Practiced Spellcaster will give you this: Practiced Spellcaster specifically limits CL to HD.

[umbergod]

I was debating on a mix of unseen seer and arcane trickster levels after getting at least a handful of levels in daggerspell mage

[Amoren]

MS gives you more than PS, though you should consider PS as well if your build still leaves you with CL < HD after MS.



Neither Master Spellthief nor Practiced Spellcaster will give you this: Practiced Spellcaster specifically limits CL to HD.

He was talking about using Practiced Spellcaster on Spellthief, thus making his spellthief caster level 5 + his Wizard caster level of CL-1, so it'd become his level +4. Unfortunately, I don't think you can do this with a one level spellthief dip because spellthieves don't have a caster level at that level (unless you go trickster ACF from Dragon Magazine, but then you don't have sneak attack).

Also, the build I've been hankering to try/might be trying soon is spellthief 1/Wizard 4-5/Unseen Seer 2 (picking up your first advanced learning for Hunter's Eye, PHB 2)/Daggerspell Mage 10/Then top it off with unseen seer or arcane trickster.

I usually like to try and grab five levels of Unseen Seer for the Nondetection, but at that level you'd probably be casting mind blank anyway.

[umbergod]

He was talking about using Practiced Spellcaster on Spellthief, thus making his spellthief caster level 5 + his Wizard caster level of CL-1, so it'd become his level +4. Unfortunately, I don't think you can do this with a one level spellthief dip because spellthieves don't have a caster level at that level (unless you go trickster ACF from Dragon Magazine, but then you don't have sneak attack).

Also, the build I've been hankering to try/might be trying soon is spellthief 1/Wizard 4-5/Unseen Seer 2 (picking up your first advanced learning for Hunter's Eye, PHB 2)/Daggerspell Mage 10/Then top it off with unseen seer or arcane trickster.

I usually like to try and grab five levels of Unseen Seer for the Nondetection, but at that level you'd probably be casting mind blank anyway.

Don't think I am gonna go full progression in Daggerspell Mage. Thinking 5 for double daggercast, or 7 for arcane infusion if its worth it.

Also, using UA variant for wizard so I can get TWF at first level in place of scribe scroll, and weapon focus (dagger) on my 5th level, freeing up my base feats and level up feats for whatever I want

[Amoren]

You might want to consider using the level 5 feat for Spontaneous Divination (ACF from Complete Champion). This would synergize nicely with Unseen Seer, allowing you to spontaneously cast divination spells such as Hunter's Eye until you get the spell slots to persist it. That's if you want to take the 5th level of wizard before jumping ship anyway, a lot of people say the ACF is worth delaying sneak attack and skill advancement via PrC, but I've never gotten to utilize it yet.

[umbergod]

I don't plan to muck around with persisting and metamagics much. Also don't plan on taking more than 2 levels of unseen seer, so I don't take any CL hits to non divination spells :P

The build is likely to be something like Spellthief1/Wizard5/Daggerspell Mage5/Unseen Seer2/Arcane Trickster5 with the last 2 levels either going into Daggerspell Mage for +1d6 SA and Arcane Infusion or Arcane Trickster for +1d6 SA and an additional daily use of Impromptu Sneak Attack ability.

[gorfnab]

Sneak Attacking Spellcasters Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240)
Rogue or Spellthief 1/ Wizard (Spontaneous Divination ACF - CC) 5/ Unseen Seer 2/ Daggerspell Mage 6/ Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster 6