[PF] To Combat Feat? Or not to Combat Feat?

[grarrrg]

This is a mini-Rant thread.
You have been warned.

Alright, Paizo has seen fit to 'group' Feats into various categories.
There are Metamagic feats, Channel feats, Style feats, Racial feats, etc...
Some feats fit into 2 or more categories (especially the Racial feats).
BUT there are 2 categories where there is NO overlap allowed. These are the General feats and the Combat feats.

But the dividing line is...wobbly.
Presumably, Combat feats would only be usable in a "combat" situation. And General feats are usable in any situation.
This is not the case.

Channel Smite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/channel-smite-combat) lets you Channel Energy with a Melee strike to do extra damage.
It is a Combat feat. This makes sense.


Greater Channel Smite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/greater-channel-smite) lets you do the same thing, but you can spread your Channel dice over multiple attacks, and if an attack misses, no Channel dice are wasted (unless ALL your attacks miss, but...).
It has Channel Smite as a pre-req, and is classified as a General feat.


Boon Companion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/boon-companion) treats your class level as (up to) 4 levels higher for purposes of Animal Companion/Mount.
It is a General feat.

Horse Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/horse-master-combat) treats your class level as equal to your Character level for purposes of a Mount.
It is a Combat feat.


Butterfly's Sting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/butterfly-s-sting-critical), if you score a Critical hit you can instead "give" the critical to an Ally.
This is a General feat.


Arcane Shield (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/arcane-shield). Sacrifice a Spell Slot to gain a temporary bonus to AC.
General feat.

Arcane Armor Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/arcane-armor-training-combat) reduce the penalty of Arcane Spell failure by 10%.
Combat feat.


Double Bane (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/double-bane) (or practically ANY feat that modifies the Bane ability). Bane is really only useful in Combat as it gives you extra To-Hit and Damage.
ALL of the 'Bane' feats are General feats.

[Psyren]

I think you're overthinking this. "Combat Feat" is just the new way of saying "Fighter Bonus Feat." Bane Feats aren't combat feats because they are useless for Fighters.

[grarrrg]

Bane Feats aren't combat feats because they are useless for Fighters.

Then what about Channel Smite?
Or Horse Master?
Or Arcane Armor Training?
Or....

And yes, a Multi-Class Fighter could have use for those feats, but a Multi-class Fighter could also have use for Double Bane. So...

[Blisstake]

Eh, most of the Pathfinder hardcovers are designed by a bunch of developers, all of which likely have different ideas of what should constitute as a combat feat or not. It's probably something they should have discussed before doing the books, but in the end it's not really a big deal (never multiclass from Inquisitor!)

[That_guy_there]

Wait... are you saying Combat Feats can only be taken by fighters and no else (Unless the class specifically says they can select Combat feats)?

I was under the impression that Combat Feats were intended to be a designation that allowed fighters (and possibly other classes) to choose from a list of feats without having to reprint that list with every book/ suppliment...

[Psyren]

Characters of other classes can take these feats as long as they meet the prerequisites. Any feat designated as a combat feat can be selected by fighters and gunslingers as a bonus feat.

That's it. It's a tag that says "Fighters should be able to get this with less tradeoff than other classes, because of training etc."

EDIT: A couple of posts came in after the one I was answering.

[Blisstake]

Wait... are you saying Combat Feats can only be taken by fighters and no else (Unless the class specifically says they can select Combat feats)?

No, that isn't what I was saying at all.

[Psyren]

Wait... are you saying Combat Feats can only be taken by fighters and no else (Unless the class specifically says they can select Combat feats)?

No, read the quote I posted. Combat feats are open to all, Fighters and Gunslingers (and archetypes of certain other classes) can merely take them as bonus feats if they want.

[That_guy_there]

Whoops... That was directed at the OP. Not you, Blisstake or you Psyren.

[grarrrg]

Wait... are you saying Combat Feats can only be taken by fighters and no else (Unless the class specifically says they can select Combat feats)?

I was under the impression that Combat Feats were intended to be a designation that allowed fighters (and possibly other classes) to choose from a list of feats without having to reprint that list with every book/ suppliment...

Whoops... That was directed at the OP. Not you, Blisstake or you Psyren.

You are correct, General/Combat feats can be taken by anyone (so long as they meet the pre-reqs). The distinction is that certain classes reference 'Combat' feats.

The PROBLEM is that there is no clear dividing line between what a "General" feat it, and what a "Combat" feat it. The examples I gave are mostly similar feats that were more or less randomly assigned to General or Combat.



That's it. It's a tag that says "Fighters should be able to get this with less tradeoff than other classes, because of training etc."

Then why is "Channel Smite" a Combat feat, but "Greater Channel Smite" is a General? It even has the Regular version AS A PRE-REQ!
:smalltongue:



never multiclass from Inquisitor!

Actually, there are quite a few reasons to Multiclass Inquisitor, especially for the 'middle levels'.

A level of a class with Martial Weapon, Heavy Armor, and/or Tower Shield prof.

A level of Cleric + Channeling Scourge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/channeling-scourge) feat (if you haven't completely dumped your CHA anyway). Also nets a second Domain/Inquisition, a fair number of which give nice bonuses for only having 1 effective level.

Pair with Gunslinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13540237#post13540237) for a great ranged/social build.


Boost your Saves (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231168) into the stratosphere...


I will concede that at high levels (15+) a straight Inquisitor is probably better overall than a multi-class (although for a more Martial Inquisitor there is the temptation to take 4 levels of a Full Bab for that last Iterative attack).

[Psyren]

Then why is "Channel Smite" a Combat feat, but "Greater Channel Smite" is a General? It even has the Regular version AS A PRE-REQ!
:smalltongue:

Eh, if you ask me both should be Channeling feats.

[doko239]

There are several classes, PRCs and archetypes that use Combat Feats as bonus feats; my guess is that the distinction is made to avoid some type of unforseen cheese. Either that or it's just an oversight.

[Peat]

There are several classes, PRCs and archetypes that use Combat Feats as bonus feats; my guess is that the distinction is made to avoid some type of unforseen cheese. Either that or it's just an oversight.

Even with this being the case though, there's some pretty slopping cases of definition going on as grarrrg points out.

[QuidEst]

Then why is "Channel Smite" a Combat feat, but "Greater Channel Smite" is a General? It even has the Regular version AS A PRE-REQ!
:smalltongue:

If, for some reason, a Fighter has the requisite class feature, he can get the basic version as a bonus feat. The advanced version requires a regular feat. If it were the other way around, I would feel it was really weird, but as is… just kind of weird.

[StreamOfTheSky]

OP, I feel your pain.

I have a PC w/ the War Domain's ability to pick up a Combat Feat that you qualify for as a swift action, spontaneously (up to round/level per day; divided up and w/ diff feats as you desire).

Navigating the (il)logic behind what is and is not a combat feat drives me crazy!