What should I be polymorphing our Meleers into?

[Brock Samson]

We have the MM1, about all the Completes, PH2, Dragon Magic, and Draconimicon. No other sources are used so don't suggest them.

I'm a Beguilter/Wizard/Ultimate Magus, level 10, very very nearly level 11, w/ a caster level of 13 right now (due to Ring of Arcane Might and Arcane Spellpower from class), and in another session CL 14.

Given my limitations, what should I be polymorphing our melee people into? We have a Dragon Shaman is ok at melee, high strength, permanently Enlarged, uses a Sizing Full Blade w/ Strongarm Bracers (so if I grow him even more it can grow too).

A Fighter/Cleric/War Priest(?) that focused on the Longsword (good AC and ok attack bonus, poor damage).

A straight Cleric (uses DMM: Persist) so he's now Persisting Righteous Might and Mass Lesser Vigor. That's about all he can do now. He uses a mace and is still not doing amazing damage.

And a straight Rogue, doesn't do much with range, doesn't two-weapon-fight, just uses his fancy Rapier.

Our DM seems to throw lots of lower CR creatures at us (unsurprisingly given our overall level of optimization) but sometimes there are good challenges for everyone.

Everyone just leveled to 11 but me and the Dragon Shaman, who will be shortly.

So what kinds of beasts should I polymorphing people into given the limitations of books we have? Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[Randomguy]

I think the rogue would appreciate being turned into a hydra, for extra sneak attacks from all the heads.

There's a handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872134/The_Complete_Polymorph_Thread_3.5) for it though, and it would know better than I do.

Edit: Looks like your best bet is Treat and Annis Hag for the other characters, but you should consider Athatch, a 3 armed huge abberation (that isn't mentioned in the handbook) when you level up.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Dragonkin in the draconomicon might be good for your beatsticks. Str and con bumps plus flight, and its not too drastic a change. Also, giants of any kind. Pixie for the rogue. No (sp) abilities since its only polymorph, but he'll love the size drop and dex boost plus flight. This may sound harsh, but the best way to help the cleric is to help him make better spell/ feat choices. Persistent divine power + power attack will go further than anything you can do for him.

[That_guy_there]

just a question (since the handbook thread is probably a good place to start0, if you're already Perm Enlargedyou have a size modifer to Attack/ Strength/ ect.. increaseing your size would give you a size modifer, which doesn't stack... right? so whats the point?

[Kelb_Panthera]

just a question (since the handbook thread is probably a good place to start0, if you're already Perm Enlargedyou have a size modifer to Attack/ Strength/ ect.. increaseing your size would give you a size modifer, which doesn't stack... right? so whats the point?

Unless I'm mistaken, size modifiers are unnamed modifiers in the rules text, except when a spell is granting the bonus rather than size change itself.

Edit: Also, being polymorphed into a giant of huge or larger size gets you more reach and racial str.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There's several forms that can work out quite well:

1) Hydras are a lot of fun. 10 HD hydras to be exact. The breath weapons you don't get, but you DO get 10 natural attacks. Combine with the usual suspects for extreme damage output.

2) A Choker is also in the MM1/SRD and gets a free standard action each round

3) Troglodytes get a +6 Natural Armor bonus

4) Deinonychus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus) has Pounce as a Special Attack. If your people don't have any other ways of getting pounce, this could work.

[Venger]

There's several forms that can work out quite well:

1) Hydras are a lot of fun. 10 HD hydras to be exact. The breath weapons you don't get, but you DO get 10 natural attacks. Combine with the usual suspects for extreme damage output.

2) A Choker is also in the MM1/SRD and gets a free standard action each round

3) Troglodytes get a +6 Natural Armor bonus

4) Deinonychus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus) has Pounce as a Special Attack. If your people don't have any other ways of getting pounce, this could work.

hydras are a classic for a reason. don't forget about pyrohydra/cryohydra. while you may not get the breath weapon, energy immunity to whichever is awfully nice, as is dealing energy damage with each bite.

chokers' quickness ability is su though, so you don't get it from polymorph (barring assume supernatural ability through chameleon's floating feat or through paying for it, but honestly, that might be worth it) but that's for casters, since chokers' melee capability kind of sucks, and OP wants stuff to turn melee ppls into, not himself. chokers grant somewhat minimal utility to a melee focused dude.

treants, tendriculos, and ironmaws are all pretty awesome as beatsticks, as is anything with pounce, like dire lions/tigers. dinosaurs are also usually pretty good for this, depending on your CL, you can pick whichever one's best for your needs. t rex is extremely fun, and if you're fighting hordes of puny enemies, one bite plus your swallow whole ability should about take care of them. (just make sure the DM doesn't ask what happens to their corpses once you turn back)

[Roguenewb]

When given the option, I always choose Hydra. You get a million freaking attacks. Plus, you are a hydra! You can get sundered. Please don;t ask if you get sundered and then end polymorph. Because I don't know.

[Venger]

When given the option, I always choose Hydra. You get a million freaking attacks. Plus, you are a hydra! You can get sundered. Please don;t ask if you get sundered and then end polymorph. Because I don't know.

if you get sundered, then "Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form."

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm

now, whether this means that you're surrounded in a pile of your own heads (since you have a head in normal form) or whether when your hydra heads are cut off nothing happens (since you have only 1 head in normal form) is up to the DM (I would lean towards the latter, personally)

[Runestar]

Note that polymorph is limited by your caster lv or the target's HD, whichever is lesser. So you are still limited to 10/11 HD forms.

I have my doubts about hydra. In that form, your rogue retains his 3/4 bab, loses his str (and weapon finesse bonuses along with it), as well as any boosts from his magic weapons, plus dr applies to each attack. His attack would be around 10+; enemies would have ACs from 25-30. What good is 12 attacks/round when you can't hit with any of them?

However, since your rogue deals damage anyways, I suppose it is a toss up between hydra, roper (insane reach, plus multiple attacks with possible str damage) and behir (improved grab, constrict + rake). All these can be found in the MM.

For lv9, there is the cave troll (MM3), which comes with 29str, pounce, rend, rake, improved grab and dazing blow. Good choice for the dragon shaman, as this form allows them to still cast spells and use weapons (the large form replaces his perm-enlarge for the duration). Not too shabby with the cleric as well, as it has combines with persistant divine power fairly well.

At lv12, there is the war troll (MM3). Better defenses overall, 30str and dazing strike. Keep this in mind for the war priest, but make sure he gets perm-enlarge first as well (so he retains his armour and weapons while polymorphed).

Hope this helps. :smallsmile:

[Gavinfoxx]

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2811

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=519

[Tvtyrant]

I think Bulette form would work, because it has high strength and thus to hit. You are reduced to only 4 attacks though.

If you wanted to use a hydra form, you might get a mouth pick, then put a wand chamber with Wraithstrike in it so your Rogue can get off his attacks without flurry'o'misses.

I also like the idea of using a Mimic form for turning into useful items, although it is largely useless in combat.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Note that polymorph is limited by your caster lv or the target's HD, whichever is lesser. So you are still limited to 10/11 HD forms.

I have my doubts about hydra. In that form, your rogue retains his 3/4 bab, loses his str (and weapon finesse bonuses along with it), as well as any boosts from his magic weapons, plus dr applies to each attack. His attack would be around 10+; enemies would have ACs from 25-30. What good is 12 attacks/round when you can't hit with any of them? 10 headed Hydra (10 HD) has a Str of 21. This more than offsets 'only' having a 12 Dex, since you use Str instead for both attack and damage per hit. Then let's not forget that ALL attacks are considered to be a PRIMARY attack, meaning no degradation of attack bonus. If he's really worried about it, he can pick up a Wand of Magic Fang.

So congratulations, you now have a higher attack bonus, and 10 attacks to sneak attack with. Have a nice day. This is made even easier to flank by having a larger size, thus a larger threat range. The other options is to pick up either a dip in Swordsage for Island of Blades, or a couple of feats for the same.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Just thought of something. Have you considered asking them what they'd like to become? or even if they want to be polymorphed at all?

[Tvtyrant]

The Gambol from MMII isn't a bad form for survival, though it would be better on a caster than a meleer. The ability to use reflex saves against melee attacks 1/turn is spiffy!

[Pika...]

Pink fluffy unicorns. @_@

[Acathala]

Surprised nobody mentioned Ropers. Ranged touch attacks that can do ability damage.

[Tvtyrant]

Surprised nobody mentioned Ropers. Ranged touch attacks that can do ability damage.

Runestar did about 7 posts above this, but its a good enough form that I will say it again!

Ropers!

Also, if you use the Urophion from Lords of Madness, you get a super Roper with the power to extract brains on a grapple check! You can't use it until level 12, but extraction is an awesome ability.