Pathfinder Druid (only Path srd)

[Drummer701]

Starting a new campaign with a semi-new to DMing Dm.. looking for the best way to optimize a completely pathfinder srd Druid, so as to try and make his first experience a lively one :)...

Stat line was rolled for and six stats are as follows 18, 17, 17, 16, 13, 12 ... we typically in my group start on the higher end for stats.

The druid will be Neutral Evil for sure and will start at level 6...

Kind of new to Druid so any ideas will be helpful and only Pathfinder SRD everything.

[grarrrg]

Starting a new campaign with a semi-new to DMing Dm.. looking for the best way to optimize a completely pathfinder srd Druid, so as to try and make his first experience a lively one :)...

Stat line was rolled for and six stats are as follows 18, 17, 17, 16, 13, 12 ... we typically in my group start on the higher end for stats.

The druid will be Neutral Evil for sure and will start at level 6...

!
Just because it is possible to do this, and I think it would be kinda awesome....

You should totally go Agent of the Grave (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave).
The main requirements are Evil (check), and be able to cast Animate Dead (tricky part).

The two ways to get Animate Dead as a Druid are either the Blight Druid (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/blight-druid) archetype, taking the Death (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/death-domain) Domain. This gets you Animate Dead as your 3rd Domain Spell.

The better way is being a Samsaran (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-samsaran) with the Mystic Past Life option. You can add a few non-class spells to your list (they must still be Divine though)

Starting at level 6 you can start with 1 level.
Agent of the Grave lets you use CHA instead of CON for your HP. And has a fair number of useful INT and CHA based abilities.
for Stats the 18 is going in WIS as it's you main casting stat.
Throw one of the 17's at CHA for the various bonuses.
The 12 goes to CON, you won't need it (and both Druid and Agent of the Grave have good Fort saves).
Between the remaining 13, 16 and 17, put one of the High ones into INT, the rest is up to you.

Samsaran stat mods are -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis. Perfect. Don't need the Con anyway, the +Wis combined with the 18 combined with the Mystic Past life means you get _5_ non-Druid divine spells on your list. And the INT will help add Necromancy spells to your class list once you hit Agent of the Grave level 5.
After Druid 5/Agent 5, the choice is up to you if you want more Druid or a different PrC.

[Drummer701]

I mean a Druid who does Necromancy... Can I justify that, seems pretty wicked

[StreamOfTheSky]

Every Pathfinder Druid should be a Menhir Savant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/menhir-savant). They trade away the garbage for really good stuff, and they're both flavorful AND powerful, a rare mix in PF.

Agree w/ the above poster on Samsaran. It's...really brokenly good. And druid's biggest weakness is his spell list, so expanding it is really handy. Be sure to cherry pick from Inquisitor and Ranger lists; maybe Anti-Paladin, don't know if their list is as awesome as paladin's is.


I mean a Druid who does Necromancy... Can I justify that, seems pretty wicked

Well, you're evil...

If you plan to raise the undead, I don't know. Never liked the idea of even evil druids doing that myself, but iirc 3E had fluff text that lich druids were very rare but do exist, so apparently undead-based druid can exist.
Just seems silly. "Oh, I can't wear full plate, that perverts the natural order. ..Raise some zombies in complete defiance of the natural cycle of life and death? Comin' right up!"

[Drummer701]

It seems as though my friend, the DM is in the mindset of that is not what Druids do and it is against their ways so it doesn't exist... blah blah blah change the rules because I don't like Necromancy atitude.

Any other Ideas???

[grarrrg]

I mean a Druid who does Necromancy... Can I justify that, seems pretty wicked

Any other Ideas???

Fine... But they are no where near as awesome as the last one...

Option 1:Nature Warden (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/nature-warden) (Summoner option)
Starting at level 6 you won't be able to take the first level of Nature Warden until level 7 (Bab req), but you can otherwise qualify with straight Druid entry, IF, and only if, you take the World Walker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/world-walker) archetype, you lose nothing important, and gain Favored Terrain as a Ranger.

Nature Warden is the only PrC to advance Animal Companion. It also gives your Companion decent boosts, and creatures you Summon get these boosts as well. It is only a 3/4 casting PrC though, so you may want to stop at 4 levels.

Stats: 18 in WIS, rest as you see fit.
Downside: You lose Wild Shape progression, but this can be offset with the Shaping Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/shaping-focus) feat (count as up to 4 Druid levels higher, max of Char level).

Option 2: Pathfinder Savant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/pathfinder-savant) (Caster option)
Gain a bonus equal to 1/2 PrC level on UMD checks, and can always take 10 on UMD. The real bonus is that every +Casting level lets you choose ANY spell and add it to his list at +1 effective level (so if you added 'Magic Missile' it would be a 2nd level spell for you).

Stats: May as well take advantage of the skill/UMD boost and put a 16 or 17 in both INT and CHA, 18 in WIS as normal.
Downside: 1/2 Bab, does not progress Wild Shape or Companion. Wild Shape can be offset some with the Shaping Focus feat, Companion can likewise be boosted with the Boon Companion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/boon-companion) feat.

Option 3: "Ranger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger)" ('Gish' option)
Take 1 level of Ranger, most archtypes are fine, but you MUST keep Favored Enemy.
Take all other levels in Druid (almost any archetype)
Take the Shapeshifting Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/shapeshifting-hunter) feat.
You now have FULL Favored Enemy progression.
If you go with Samsaran as your Race then you need to grab the spell Instant Enemy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/instant-enemy). It's a 3rd level spell, casts as a Swift action, and the target automatically counts as your Highest Favored Enemy.
Wild Shape into a beatstick and go to town.

Stats: 18 in WIS (duh), but for this one, I recommend putting 17's and 16 in STR/DEX/CON (any order).
Downside: Not much. You lose 1 Caster level, and 1 level of Companion.

[Blyte]

I love that concept Garaag, that race and PrC combo is fantastic.

An evil druid using necromancy could see himself as a custodian enforcing that death and decay will take hold even on the immortal, like a reaper for the unnatural. Create your undead from the standpoint of they will rise for a short time to do a function and then return to the earth. You yourself becoming a lich, fighting fire with fire, could be seen as a necessary evil, to help accomplish nature's agenda. Your goal would be to become a custodian of death or death itself, a force of nature. It's a twisted hypocritical logic, but you're an evil fanatic for nature, willing to take extreme measures. You could see yourself as an "inevitable" for nature.

edit:
so what options would be good after you cap agent of the grave?

continue on the path to spell list expansion as a pathfinder savant perhaps?

it would be another ding to your spell progression, but getting to add some choice wizard spells might be worth it.

[navar100]

ST 17
DX 17
CO 16
IN 13
WI 18
CH 12

Take Natural Spell at first opportunity.

I advise taking a non-Animal Domain instead of the Animal Companion. You have more freedom to travel anywhere. When you need to enter a city or town no one bothers you as would happen having a pet wolf trying to enter, and it is rather difficult to bring your bear down the hole entrance of the dungeon. Cast Summon Nature's Ally when you need the extra paws for attack.

[grarrrg]

I love that concept Garaag, that race and PrC combo is fantastic.

Who? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RunningGag):smallconfused:


so what options would be good after you cap agent of the grave?

continue on the path to spell list expansion as a pathfinder savant perhaps?

it would be another ding to your spell progression, but getting to add some choice wizard spells might be worth it.

Well, first off, there are (at least) 3 ways to accomplish an Agent of the Grave Necro-Druid. I've mentioned all 3, just not in the same post.
#1: Blight Druid with Death Domain. Can only cast Animate Dead 1/day though.
#2: Samsaran using the Mystic Past Life option getting [casting mod] in extra List spells (must match Arcane/Divine, otherwise go nuts).
#3: Pathfinder Savant, can add ANY spell(s) to your list, but at +1 level (can 'technically' add spells already on your list to your list at +0 level, but...).

Of the group, Samsaran is by far the best choice. The 1/day limit on Domain is really slow for building an army. And going the Savant route delays Agent entry by at least 3 levels (Animate dead added as a 4th level spell, need to be level 8 to cast it, level 9 can finally enter Agent).

So Samsaran is the best choice (can still go Blight>Death if we want, we just don't HAVE to). For the other Samsaran bonus spells it partly depends on what level you are building this character for. Remember Agent of the Grave level 5 adds ANY Necromancy spells to your list (limited by your INT mod).
Samsaran bonus spells must be Divine.
Agent bonus spells must be Necromancy.
This requires some thought on which spells you want to have, and when you want to have them.

As for where to go after Druid 5/Agent of the Grave 5...
There really aren't that many choices. You're already down 1 caster level, so at _worst_ you can only afford to lose 2 more.
Druids must worship a 'Nature Deity' or 'natural forces' or whatever, so that eliminates some PrC options right there.
And we have to be Neutral Evil for Agent levels, so that eliminates most of the remaining ones.
And then there are the ones that we could take, but don't really fit/help the Necromancy theme (such as Harrower (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/harrower))
Basically the choices are narrowed down to more Druid, or Pathfinder Savant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/pathfinder-savant).

Straight Druid is a decent option. With the Boon Companion feat the Companion would only be behind by 1 level, and Wildshape would also progress. And we don't lose any more caster levels.

Savant loses 1 caster level, but can add even MORE non-class spells to your list (albeit at +1 spell level), justifying it in a Necro build is a little iffy, but if most of your Bonus spells are necro-focused then I think you'll be OK. Going Savant we are DEFINITELY better off going the Domain route (our Domain powers will be weak, but we still get the Domain Spells). And it doesn't progress Wild Shape either.

[The Glyphstone]

Dwarf is your best race in terms of stats, though humans are always good as a second option.

Well, 18 in Wisdom (up to 20), 17 in Constitution (up to 19). Dump that other 17 in Strength, the 16 in Dex, 13 Int, and 12 Cha (down to 10). You're set to cast, rip faces in wildshape, or whatever you want.

[grarrrg]

ST 17
DX 17
CO 16
IN 13
WI 18
CH 12

Take Natural Spell at first opportunity.

I advise taking a non-Animal Domain instead of the Animal Companion. You have more freedom to travel anywhere. When you need to enter a city or town no one bothers you as would happen having a pet wolf trying to enter, and it is rather difficult to bring your bear down the hole entrance of the dungeon. Cast Summon Nature's Ally when you need the extra paws for attack.
Dwarf is your best race in terms of stats, though humans are always good as a second option.

Well, 18 in Wisdom (up to 20), 17 in Constitution (up to 19). Dump that other 17 in Strength, the 16 in Dex, 13 Int, and 12 Cha (down to 10). You're set to cast, rip faces in wildshape, or whatever you want.

Pipe down you two.
We're trying to brainwash him into making a Necro-Druid here!

[The Glyphstone]

S'not my fault. I was the only poster in the thread till I noticed the double post and went to go talk to my 'powerful friend'.

[grarrrg]

S'not my fault. I was the only poster in the thread till I noticed the double post and went to go talk to my 'powerful friend'.

what? :smallconfused:

Glyphstone, have you been not drinking again?

[Drummer701]

I tried really hard to convince my DM but he kept falling back on...

Ex-Druids

A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities (including her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a druid until she atones (see the atonement spell description).

he believes that by summoning undead and practicing Necromancy I am ceasing to revere nature and would lose all my Druid stuffs... I urged him to find anything in the Pathfinder SRD that says a Druid cannot perform Necromancy but.... he got mad and eventually said no evil chars in his compaign

[The Glyphstone]

And really, he's right. As much fun as trolling the DM by playing a necromancer druid is, undead are rightfully abominations of nature. They might not be Evil depending on setting, but druids shouldn't be trucking with them IMO.

[grarrrg]

And really, he's right. As much fun as trolling the DM by playing a necromancer druid is, undead are rightfully abominations of nature. They might not be Evil depending on setting, but druids shouldn't be trucking with them IMO.

BUT! But!...the awesomeness....


*mumble mumble* Juju Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/juju) *mumble mumble* NOT evil undead *mumble mumble* make a "Juju Druid" *mumble mumble*

[lordkronos187]

BUT! But!...the awesomeness....


*mumble mumble* Juju Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/juju) *mumble mumble* NOT evil undead *mumble mumble* make a "Juju Druid" *mumble mumble*

fear not. i hereby animate this thread in honor of the necro druid build which i have currently entered in to a campaign. the much loved justification for his necromantic proclivities is in short, insanity. after life after life, century after century he has grown tired of constant rebirth. it isnt natural. a true balance includes life, death, and undeath as well. the constant rebirth process must be arrested, and what better way than true undeath? lichdom ;)