question on chromatic dragons

[Tentakel]

Hi,

another rules question from me...

in D&D 3.5, chromatic dragons don't have natural shapechanging abilities like some metallic dragons do.

Now, I distinctively remember reading early Dragonlance novels where the evil dragons could shapechange into humans. They'd always have some kind of attribute that gave them away (a red dragon might have fire-red hair and wears a crimson robe, for example).

Even the 3rd edition Dragonlance dragons don't allow for the shapechange, if memory serves.

Now,what RAW options would I have to allow a chromatic dragon to shapechange into a human? It's for an NPC in a campaign and I don't care about gaining supernatural abilities from the shapechange or any of that, just appearance to mingle unnoticed among humans, so the shapechange has to last for hours. That means 3.5 polymorph spell is out (unless you do metamagic hijinx, and then it's too high level). A template or appropriate magic item could work too. This is a young and low level dragon so no 9th level spells or 10 levels of Master of Many Forms or stuff like that, please.

Thanks much!

[Mithril Leaf]

Alter self into a dragonwrought kobold if it's a small enough dragon? It's longer duration and could be extended I guess.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Not sure about humanoid forms, but depending on the dragon's size it could (Extended) Alter Self into one of the various Felldrakes in MM2, then (Hat of) Disguise (Self) into a dog or horse to go unnoticed.

Of the ten core dragons, only three have an alternate form ability, all of them read as follows:

Alternate Form (Su)
A ([age] or older) [color] dragon can assume any animal or humanoid form of Medium size or smaller as a standard action three times per day. The dragon can remain in its animal or humanoid form until it chooses to assume a new one or return to its natural form.

You could just rule-of-cool this to the general true dragon abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm) at Juvenile age for any variety that doesn't already have it listed. Most games and cultures describe dragons as being able to change their shape into that of a human, and it doesn't make them any more dangerous in combat.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Skin of Proteus affects the wearer as a Metamorphosis power while worn.

You could give the dragon access to the Humanoid Shape invocation from the Dragonfire Adept list.

Edit: if you're the DM, I'd honestly just make something up if it's for an NPC in a world where it's clearly established that dragons have this ability. You're not locked into the published stats; if you have a good reason for them to be different, make them different.

[MrRigger]

I don't think it would be terribly out of line to houserule Alternate Form (as the Silver Dragon ability) onto a Chromatic Dragon. It wouldn't be strictly RAW, but it wouldn't be out of line with the flavor of Dragons.

MrRigger

[Arcane_Secrets]

I don't think it would be terribly out of line to houserule Alternate Form (as the Silver Dragon ability) onto a Chromatic Dragon. It wouldn't be strictly RAW, but it wouldn't be out of line with the flavor of Dragons.

MrRigger

I thought this was the best idea out of those I've seen so far. If this needs to be turned into a rule, perhaps just say that they can adopt a humanoid form for y hours/age category and then have to turn back into a dragon for some time, so that way they could start at six hours or something similar and then work their way up from there.

[Tentakel]

Sure, I understand all the "GM can use his sledgehammer and say that's how it is", but when there is a detective element to it, it's a lot fairer to the players when everything has an explanation. That's like reading an Agatha Christie novel and in the end you read "oh, the villain could teleport, that's how he did it, the author just decided to break the rules" - it wouldn't be very fulfilling if you're trying to solve the story as you read.

[MrRigger]

In a regular detective story, sure, that would be very off-putting. However, this is D&D, and True Dragons have an established history of being able to change shape. Personally, I'd say all the Metallic and Chromatic Dragons should have Alternate Form, and if I hadn't read the entries recently, I would have sworn they did by default. Giving a Chromatic Dragon Alternate Form is hardly gamebreaking, and if you're worried about your players metagaming knowledge that not all Dragons have Alternate Form, drop the information in game. If it is part of a mystery, drop the information without necessarily making it reliable. Give it as one of numerous rumors running around the tavern (some true, some false), or have someone unreliable give them the information, such as someone proclaiming the end of the world. You know, "Dragons walk among us! They take our forms and infiltrate our courts! They seek to devour the world, leaving only the husk behind!" You know, mix good information with bad, so it isn't a complete surprise reveal, but you aren't giving away the mystery either.

But giving them the Alternate Form ability is not going to wreck the game.

MrRigger

[Tentakel]

I don't mind using my GM sledgehammer if I have to, but I prefer not having to and staying with RAW, which is why I posted this threat. It's always better to go with RAW unless it's utterly necessary to do otherwise.

Besides, say my dragon gains the shapeshift ability through a magic item, and the players overcome the dragon and find the magic item, then it all makes sense and the players are rewarded with the item. That's a lot more gratifying than "oh yeah, I had to bend the rules to make it work".

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sure, I understand all the "GM can use his sledgehammer and say that's how it is", but when there is a detective element to it, it's a lot fairer to the players when everything has an explanation. That's like reading an Agatha Christie novel and in the end you read "oh, the villain could teleport, that's how he did it, the author just decided to break the rules" - it wouldn't be very fulfilling if you're trying to solve the story as you read.

Tell them ahead of time that all dragons can shapechange. Problem solved.

Edit: Rather, throw it out there during play so they have a chance to pick up on it. Not something like, "BTW all dragons can shapechange in this game," and they'll suspect every NPC of being a dragon for the rest of the game.

[Pika...]

It's your cosmology/setting, and you are the DM. You can just rule all true dragons can shapechange, and you don't need to tell the PCs upfront (very suspiciously I may add) about it. A) It will give your plot away, and B) Metagaming would be getting up and shouting at the DM "But Chromatics can't do that!!!".

[hamishspence]

I think that there's a feat in the Dragons of Eberron book that grants the ability.

[Urpriest]

I think that there's a feat in the Dragons of Eberron book that grants the ability.

Yup. Alternate Form, on page 15. Requires 5 levels of Sorceror for some reason.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Actual sorcerer levels or would the dragon inate casting (perhaps aided by Loredrake) be enough?

[Urpriest]

Actual sorcerer levels or would the dragon inate casting (perhaps aided by Loredrake) be enough?

The feat says Sorceror level 5. Granted it may intend it to mean innate casting, but it's a rather odd way of stating it.

[Tentakel]

Yup. Alternate Form, on page 15. Requires 5 levels of Sorceror for some reason.


Awesome, thanks. That'd be just what I'm looking for.

[Marnath]

The feat says Sorceror level 5. Granted it may intend it to mean innate casting, but it's a rather odd way of stating it.

Innate casting stacks with sorcerer levels, so is there really a distinction there?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Edit: Rather, throw it out there during play so they have a chance to pick up on it. Not something like, "BTW all dragons can shapechange in this game," and they'll suspect every NPC of being a dragon for the rest of the game.

Alternatively, they find a magic item that gives them True Seeing...

Then the one with the magic item and a crossbow walks into the royal court to kill those damn dragons, and says "I am here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. And I am all out of bubblegum".