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dascarletm
2012-07-22, 11:30 AM
I've recently started a new game with a friend of mine over OpenRPG. I'm was playing a gnome artificer, but got killed (my bad).

We're at level one right now, and I think the campaign is going to turn into, wait for it... SKYPIRATES!:smalltongue:

Anyway I've had 2 character concepts I've been throwing around, and I was thinking of making a character like this guy: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Gerrard_Capashen

This is the build I was thinking

Swash 3/ Monk 2/ Fighter2/ Duelist 10/ whatever at the end
I'd take the monk varient that grants dodge and mobility.

Really idk what I'm doing, but I want to make a swashbuckling swordsman without going straight swashbuckler. I'd like to keep to the theme of that character, and not go too crazy on optimization as my DM doesn't like the crazyness. (though I'd like to be compitent)

Really I just need some ideas.

Thanks guys.

dantiesilva
2012-07-22, 11:32 AM
Why not trade out swashbuckler for duskblade? You gain spells that you can channel through your blade.

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 11:34 AM
Why not trade out swashbuckler for duskblade? You gain spells that you can channel through your blade.

I would but the character I'm basing it off didn't cast spells. I know that might be limiting towards building a good character, I've usually only ever played casters, but I'm sure ya'll could do it! :smallbiggrin:

Urpriest
2012-07-22, 12:56 PM
I don't know much about the actual MtG plot, but just based on how many cards focus on Gerrard's ship, his leadership, etc, I think this guy would be better represented as Cha-based than Int-based. Dread Pirate (Complete Adventurer) is an interesting PrC, and a lot better than Duelist.

eggs
2012-07-22, 01:10 PM
Duelist is pretty awful. I'd avoid it if at all possible.

I'm a fan of Scarlet Corsair (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050805b) for this kind of build, but it can flop if you don't really optimize the demoralization effects and sneak attack.

Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) would be the alternative which very well captures combat expertise, cunning and a leadership role, without being crippled by a finesse build (Stormguard Warrior builds usually feel especially swashbucklery). Warblades are very easy to build well, and most people seem to have a good time playing them.

Bloodgruve
2012-07-22, 01:13 PM
Have you taken a look at the Dread Pirate PRC in Complete Adventurer?

Blood~

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 01:28 PM
Have you taken a look at the Dread Pirate PRC in Complete Adventurer?

Blood~

I always thought the Dread Pirate wasn't good. At least that's what someone told me. Is both honorable/dishonorable similar in goodness?

eggs
2012-07-22, 01:47 PM
It's not bad. It compresses the best of the Swashbuckler and Samurai into 5 levels (admittedly, that's not great, but it's better than many martial PrCs like the Duelist).

Honorable is useful in certain Inspire Courage builds (provided one IC use is finagled into lasting an entire day), and Sneak Attack is always handy (at very worst, it opens feats like Craven and Staggering Strike). I'd generally lean toward dishonorable being more worthwhile, on account of the limited uses of the morale effect and the action the DP has to sink to activate those bonuses.

Past level 5, Dread Pirate stops being so useful. Levels 8-10 are particularly dire.

Akal Saris
2012-07-22, 02:04 PM
A Bard/Dread Pirate can have a decent Inspire Courage as well, assuming you take Song of the Heart (from the Eberron Campaign book). It would make for a decent heroic-type if you took Perform (Oratory) I think :)

Another good swashbuckler-type build is Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17, with the Daring Outlaw feat from Complete Scoundrel, which lets Swashbuckler continue the rogue's sneak attack advancement (so you end up with 9d6 SA per attack). Not crazy optimized but much better than simply going swashbuckler, and you'll have a lot more skill points early on.

gorfnab
2012-07-22, 02:10 PM
Here is a build I came up with a while ago.


Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Deceptive Strike (PHBII) Monk - Camendine Monk, Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense, B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available pick up EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (pre-errata version if possible) or Versatile Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick (may need to rearrange later feats). If traits are available pick up Cautious.

The Monk and Swashbuckler levels (levels 1 through 5) can be switched around to taste. I personally like Swash 1/ Monk 2/ Swash 2

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 02:12 PM
What is so bad about the duelist? I always thought if combined with monk, Elusive Target, and Romblar's Gambit you could run around the field being unhittable, while getting a trip and an attack on everyone who attacks you. I mean having an AC of like 70 can't be so unsexy... With a 3 dip in swashbuckler you'd get your int and dmg to str, something like +15 per attack (without enhancement, PA, and such) sounds pretty decent... what am I missing.


Here is my theoretical build:
Swash 3/ Monk 2/ Fighter 2/ Duelist 10/ Master Thrower 3.
Taking The cobra style (I think cobra) monk variant for Dodge/Mobility
Feats:
1: Weapon Finesse (from Swash)
1: Combat Experience
1: Combat Reflexes
3: Carmendine Monk
4:Dodge (from Monk)
5: Mobility (From Monk)
6: PBS
6:Goad (Fighter)
7: Elusive Target (Fighter)
9: Improved Critical (Rapier)
12: Precise Shot
15: Romblar's Gambit
18: Wep Foc (Dagger [or other thrown weapon])

Stats (32 point buy)
Str: 12
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Increasing Int Every time, and a +5 from wishes at the end (gonna have another character be an artificer, so I can get the books for cheaper) and a +6 Item Gives me 32 (+11)

Get a +4 Dex Book, and 6 gloves gives me 24 (+7)

always put at least 1 point into combat expertise for +11

AC Breakdown:
Base:10
Bracers:8
Defending Parry Dagger: 6
Monk: 11
Duelist Int: 10
Dex: 7
Ring: 5
Ammy: 5
Expertise: 11
Dodge: 1
Total:74

I know crazy AC stacking isn't unstoppable with things like Magic Missile, Save or Dies, and well, Magic.
But I will get improved Evasion, and have a pretty good Fort/Reflex. (Will will be lacking, but there is magic items for that)

Idk it doesn't sound so bad....

eggs
2012-07-22, 02:59 PM
AC only matters if enemies have a reason to attack you.

Goad doesn't count. (low DC, limiting action/range, not a particularly limiting effect)

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 03:11 PM
AC only matters if enemies have a reason to attack you.

Goad doesn't count. (low DC, limiting action/range, not a particularly limiting effect)

what attacker doesn't take his AoO? also insulting the enemies mother, maybe I should get trip, and a +15 to attack damage (Before weapon enhancement or anything else) every attack isn't that bad... right?

NeoSeraphi
2012-07-22, 03:17 PM
What is so bad about the duelist? I always thought if combined with monk, Elusive Target, and Romblar's Gambit you could run around the field being unhittable, while getting a trip and an attack on everyone who attacks you. I mean having an AC of like 70 can't be so unsexy... With a 3 dip in swashbuckler you'd get your int and dmg to str, something like +15 per attack (without enhancement, PA, and such) sounds pretty decent... what am I missing.


Here is my theoretical build:
Swash 3/ Monk 2/ Fighter 2/ Duelist 10/ Master Thrower 3.
Taking The cobra style (I think cobra) monk variant for Dodge/Mobility
Feats:
1: Weapon Finesse (from Swash)
1: Combat Experience
1: Combat Reflexes
3: Carmendine Monk
4:Dodge (from Monk)
5: Mobility (From Monk)
6: PBS
6:Goad (Fighter)
7: Elusive Target (Fighter)
9: Improved Critical (Rapier)
12: Precise Shot
15: Romblar's Gambit
18: Wep Foc (Dagger [or other thrown weapon])

Stats (32 point buy)
Str: 12
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Increasing Int Every time, and a +5 from wishes at the end (gonna have another character be an artificer, so I can get the books for cheaper) and a +6 Item Gives me 32 (+11)

Get a +4 Dex Book, and 6 gloves gives me 24 (+7)

always put at least 1 point into combat expertise for +11

AC Breakdown:
Base:10
Bracers:8
Defending Parry Dagger: 6
Monk: 11
Duelist Int: 10
Dex: 7
Ring: 5
Ammy: 5
Expertise: 11
Dodge: 1
Total:74

I know crazy AC stacking isn't unstoppable with things like Magic Missile, Save or Dies, and well, Magic.
But I will get improved Evasion, and have a pretty good Fort/Reflex. (Will will be lacking, but there is magic items for that)

Idk it doesn't sound so bad....


Hmm...this build strikes my interest. How, exactly, are you getting a +11 bonus to your Armor Class from the Combat Expertise feat?

Here's the direct quote from the SRD:

Combat Expertise [General]
Prerequisite
Int 13.

Benefit
When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.

Normal
A character without the Combat Expertise feat can fight defensively while using the attack or full attack action to take a -4 penalty on attack rolls and gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.

Special
A fighter may select Combat Expertise as one of his fighter bonus feats.



That is the feat's entirety. It even specifically states that there is a cap to the bonus of +5. So, how are you getting +11? Is there a specific class feature somewhere in your build that lets you increase the bonus provided by the feat?

The Redwolf
2012-07-22, 03:20 PM
also insulting the enemies mother

I have to advise against that, I did it and rolled a bunch of ones and twos when my character had previously been dominating and got thrown to the ground by a dwarf, had his spine practically snapped in a few places, and his face smashed up a helluva lot by the floor...good times in retrospect, but still.

The Glyphstone
2012-07-22, 03:24 PM
what attacker doesn't take his AoO? also insulting the enemies mother, maybe I should get trip, and a +15 to attack damage (Before weapon enhancement or anything else) every attack isn't that bad... right?

It's good in theory, and against particularly stupid enemies, but in actual combat a reasonably intelligent enemy is going to pick the person mauling them with a huge sword/blasting them with deadly magic over the annoying jerk who's only injuring their ego. Particularly after they've tried one or two AoO only to miss and get whacked back, they'll figure it out and stop trying to hit you while your friends get turned into greasy stains in the dirt.

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 03:27 PM
That is the feat's entirety. It even specifically states that there is a cap to the bonus of +5. So, how are you getting +11? Is there a specific class feature somewhere in your build that lets you increase the bonus provided by the feat?

Duelist Adds class levels to AC when using comb expertise or when fighting defensively. Elaborate Parry. On a second look through maybe it doesn't work with expertise. Does it? anyway still fight defensively for the +10 all the same.

NeoSeraphi
2012-07-22, 03:37 PM
Duelist Adds class levels to AC when using comb expertise or when fighting defensively. Elaborate Parry. On a second look through maybe it doesn't work with expertise. Does it? anyway still fight defensively for the +10 all the same.

Ah, I see. Actually, when you fight defensively, if you have at least 5 ranks in the Tumble skill (I assume you will, based on your character concept), your dodge bonus to AC increases to +3.

So you would take a -4 penalty to your attack rolls (the penalty for fighting defensively) and get a +13 total dodge bonus to your AC. However, that is significantly higher than a -1 penalty, I hope you realize that.

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 03:42 PM
It's good in theory, and against particularly stupid enemies, but in actual combat a reasonably intelligent enemy is going to pick the person mauling them with a huge sword/blasting them with deadly magic over the annoying jerk who's only injuring their ego. Particularly after they've tried one or two AoO only to miss and get whacked back, they'll figure it out and stop trying to hit you while your friends get turned into greasy stains in the dirt.

I suppose it works both ways as well. If they start to ignore me I can always attack their squishes, or move infront of them and trip away.

I mean some enemies, yeah, will decide not to attack me, but I doubt all or most wouldn't, especially when being stabbed/tripped/disarmed. I suspect most high level warrior types would have a good amount of pride/ego. It is a role-playing game after all!

Is there any suggestions for switching out the master thrower at the end? It gives me some mid range potential an improved evasion.

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 03:44 PM
Ah, I see. Actually, when you fight defensively, if you have at least 5 ranks in the Tumble skill (I assume you will, based on your character concept), your dodge bonus to AC increases to +3.

So you would take a -4 penalty to your attack rolls (the penalty for fighting defensively) and get a +13 total dodge bonus to your AC. However, that is significantly higher than a -1 penalty, I hope you realize that.

True but can Elaborate parry work with combat expertise? Is combat expertise a type of fighting defensively? I might get my DM to allow it if it really isn't. We always thought it was.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-07-22, 03:44 PM
Duelist Adds class levels to AC when using comb expertise or when fighting defensively. Elaborate Parry. On a second look through maybe it doesn't work with expertise. Does it? anyway still fight defensively for the +10 all the same.

...That's only fighting defensively and total defense.

As for why Duelist is bad.
-Major increase in MAD. Almost none of the Duelist class features work in any armor.You trade armor for... Int to AC.
-Precise Strike is a halfway decent source of bonus damage if you REALLY want to play a lightly armored dual-wielder in core-only. Until you notice it doesn't work with TWF.

Yes, this is only two things. But it's two things on a PrC that is already tier 5 (its abilities are rather tame, and it has a really small skill list), and is best for use by tier 5 classes (swash, fighter, and the previous two with multiclassing in rogue).

As for high AC? A straight monk can do that. It's called turtling. Basically, you just move around using ineffective attacks in the hopes that you roll high enough to hit and get ineffective damage every once in a while, while being hard to hit by guys who are rolling nothing more than standard attack rolls. At least the monk has the benefit of having all good saves through all levels.

NeoSeraphi
2012-07-22, 04:13 PM
True but can Elaborate parry work with combat expertise? Is combat expertise a type of fighting defensively? I might get my DM to allow it if it really isn't. We always thought it was.

Combat Expertise is not a type of fighting defensively. This is pretty explicit in some parts of the game, for instance, the bonus from ranks in Tumble that I mentioned earlier applies to fighting defensively or using the total defense action, but not to the Combat Expertise feat. The Combat Expertise feat is supposed to be balanced by the way it allows you to get a "large" dodge bonus to your Armor Class in exchange for a limited but controllable and variable penalty to your attack rolls. So you can get a +2 dodge bonus to your AC for just a -2 penalty to your attack rolls, rather than the -4 penalty most people have to take for fighting defensively. It's great, right? Totally worth a feat slot.

eggs
2012-07-22, 04:13 PM
You're assuming that when you attack things, they care.

Your build looks like it has has +23 to attack, 25 to 30ish damage, most of it precision-based.

You certainly could try attacking the casters. I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 04:15 PM
Combat Expertise is not a type of fighting defensively. This is pretty explicit in some parts of the game, for instance, the bonus from ranks in Tumble that I mentioned earlier applies to fighting defensively or using the total defense action, but not to the Combat Expertise feat. The Combat Expertise feat is supposed to be balanced by the way it allows you to get a "large" dodge bonus to your Armor Class in exchange for a limited but controllable and variable penalty to your attack rolls. So you can get a +2 dodge bonus to your AC for just a -2 penalty to your attack rolls, rather than the -4 penalty most people have to take for fighting defensively. It's great, right? Totally worth a feat slot.

I suppose the "normal" part of the feat talking about fighting defensively made me think it was an extension of those rules.

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 04:20 PM
You're assuming that when you attack things, they care.

Your build looks like it has has +23 to attack, 25 to 30ish damage, most of it precision-based.

You certainly could try attacking the casters. I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

being a caster and getting tripped/interrupted/grappled/sundered spell component pouch doesn't sound like fun.

I mean a caster having a d4 hit dice max HP assuming 14 or 16 con is like 120 to 140 HP. thats about 5-6 attacks. 1 standard and 1 full attack?

The Glyphstone
2012-07-22, 04:24 PM
being a caster and getting tripped/interrupted/grappled/sundered spell component pouch doesn't sound like fun.

I mean a caster having a d4 hit dice max HP assuming 14 or 16 con is like 120 to 140 HP. thats about 5-6 attacks. 1 standard and 1 full attack?

The problem is you're calculating your math at level 18. If a level 18 caster is even in a position where you're allowed to make a standard attack against him, he's done something horribly wrong - even a non-optimized caster would have any number of a) flight, b) invisibility, c) blur/displacement, d) mirror image, e) more specialized defenses. You, as a 100% mundane character, will struggle immensely with bypassing those protections, and the mundane brutes who lack said protections will have the AC and HP to shrug off your pinpricks. About the only thing you can fairly go toe-to-toe with is rogues or similar high-mobility melee classes who are filling the same niche you are.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-07-22, 04:28 PM
The problem is you're calculating your math at level 18. If a level 18 caster is even in a position where you're allowed to make a standard attack against him, he's done something horribly wrong - even a non-optimized caster would have any number of a) flight, b) invisibility, c) blur/displacement, d) mirror image, e) more specialized defenses. You, as a 100% mundane character, will struggle immensely with bypassing those protections, and the mundane brutes who lack said protections will have the AC and HP to shrug off your pinpricks. About the only thing you can fairly go toe-to-toe with is rogues or similar high-mobility melee classes who are filling the same niche you are.
Yeah. It's like I said.

As for high AC? A straight monk can do that. It's called turtling. Basically, you just move around using ineffective attacks in the hopes that you roll high enough to hit and get ineffective damage every once in a while, while being hard to hit by guys who are rolling nothing more than standard attack rolls. At least the monk has the benefit of having all good saves through all levels.

NeoSeraphi
2012-07-22, 04:29 PM
being a caster and getting tripped/interrupted/grappled/sundered spell component pouch doesn't sound like fun.

I mean a caster having a d4 hit dice max HP assuming 14 or 16 con is like 120 to 140 HP. thats about 5-6 attacks. 1 standard and 1 full attack?

The only casters who have d4 hit dice are wu jen, sorcerers and wizards. Bards, hexblades, duskblades, clerics, druids, warmages, dread necromancers, beguilers, paladins, rangers and archivists all have d6 and up, most of them d8s.

Wizards and sorcerers tend to have low AC and hit points, but they can also fly. Can you fly? If you can't, you can't hit them. If you can, good, but you still need to penetrate the miss chance granted by blur, displacement, or worse, mirror image. That will tend to at least ensure that 1 or 2 of your full attack hits do not hit.

Now, if you're planning on fighting a lot of casters and you have somehow managed to get blindsight or some other way of penetrating visual miss chance (maybe glasses of continuous true seeing) as well as a bunch of flight, then good for you.

The problem is...AC doesn't really help you then. Casters target saves, not AC. You do have a remarkably high touch AC, which is great, but your Fortitude save is only +14 and your Will save is only +7. One hold monster would effectively paralyze you, and you'll have to pray if you run into an optimized wizard with slay living.

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 04:31 PM
The problem is you're calculating your math at level 18. If a level 18 caster is even in a position where you're allowed to make a standard attack against him, he's done something horribly wrong - even a non-optimized caster would have any number of a) flight, b) invisibility, c) blur/displacement, d) mirror image, e) more specialized defenses. You, as a 100% mundane character, will struggle immensely with bypassing those protections, and the mundane brutes who lack said protections will have the AC and HP to shrug off your pinpricks.

Just to throw this out here the only reason I argue isn't to be a pain in the butt or prove anyone wrong, but because I really want to play this character and be awesome.

I assume my caster/my item choice will give me the necessary buffs/countermeasures to get up to him.

A pinch of truesight, a dash of flight, a sprinkle of dimension door, and that may be all I need to catch the bugger!
I suppose its my games only, but NPCs play differently than players.

As far as fighters, I don't see many with more than 30 armor or so (hence most not optimizing AC), and I'd have almost +30 to my first attack at high levels. Also tripping and disarming, are usually better options that I would do anyway.

dascarletm
2012-07-22, 04:34 PM
The only casters who have d4 hit dice are wu jen, sorcerers and wizards. Bards, hexblades, duskblades, clerics, druids, warmages, dread necromancers, beguilers, paladins, rangers and archivists all have d6 and up, most of them d8s.

Wizards and sorcerers tend to have low AC and hit points, but they can also fly. Can you fly? If you can't, you can't hit them. If you can, good, but you still need to penetrate the miss chance granted by blur, displacement, or worse, mirror image. That will tend to at least ensure that 1 or 2 of your full attack hits do not hit.

Now, if you're planning on fighting a lot of casters and you have somehow managed to get blindsight or some other way of penetrating visual miss chance (maybe glasses of continuous true seeing) as well as a bunch of flight, then good for you.

The problem is...AC doesn't really help you then. Casters target saves, not AC. You do have a remarkably high touch AC, which is great, but your Fortitude save is only +14 and your Will save is only +7. One hold monster would effectively paralyze you, and you'll have to pray if you run into an optimized wizard with slay living.

This is what I want, but perhaps a suggestion on how to get more Will save? or items that grant me neigh immunity.

I Suggest you give me some suggestions people.:smalltongue: (PS I'm a wizard in real life save DC for that is only 14 though...:smallfrown:)

Also Gotta head to work will be back at 8 or so Pacific. (I hope to see many a constructive criticism!:smallbiggrin:)

NeoSeraphi
2012-07-22, 04:51 PM
This is what I want, but perhaps a suggestion on how to get more Will save? or items that grant me neigh immunity.

I Suggest you give me some suggestions people.:smalltongue: (PS I'm a wizard in real life save DC for that is only 14 though...:smallfrown:)

Also Gotta head to work will be back at 8 or so Pacific. (I hope to see many a constructive criticism!:smallbiggrin:)

A higher Will save? Well, a cloak of resistance +5 is the best 25,000 gp you will ever spend, period. You should have some decent WBL if you're planning to fight unarmed when you're not throwing daggers. +5 to all 3 saves will make your already awesome Reflex saves really shoot through the roof, and that will help you take full advantage of your Evasion feature.

That's where you hit the ceiling though, but a +12 Will save is much better than +7. I'm afraid there's not much more you can do. With all your dipping and your poor Wisdom score, your save is just destined to be bad.

A continuous item of true seeing will give you complete blanket immunity to illusions. A continuous item of mind blank (if you can even afford one) will give you complete blanket immunity to all spells with the [mind-affecting] descriptor. Note that this encompasses the entire enchantment school (which is why enchantment is considered to be the weakest school of magic) as well as some annoying illusions and necromancy spells.

Evasion plus Reflex is pretty much going to give the middle finger to Evocation, so you're good there.

Flickerdart
2012-07-22, 04:52 PM
As far as fighters, I don't see many with more than 30 armor or so (hence most not optimizing AC), and I'd have almost +30 to my first attack at high levels. Also tripping and disarming, are usually better options that I would do anyway.
10 base, +13 magic mithral full plate, +7 magic heavy shield, +3 Dexterity, +5 Amulet of Natural Armor, +5 Ring of Protection = 43 AC. Not optimizing, just buying core defensive items. Total cost: not even 50% of 18th level WBL. Your character is focused on attack rolls, but even they are not very good. Your Strength is too low to trip anyone. Your attack bonus is too low to disarm anyone.

You want advice to improve the character to be awesome? You need to improve pretty much everything across the board, which you won't have the resources to do even if your party caster babysits you. Pick something you want to be good at and focus on improving that, instead of meandering about without a real goal.

The Glyphstone
2012-07-22, 05:04 PM
That's good advice. D&D is a game that reward specialization and heavily punishes generalization - try to be good at everything and all you end up doing is being bad at everything. Heck, you're talking about tripping/disarming people, and you don't even have the Imp. Trip/Disarm feats that'll let you do those attacks without getting smacked in the face. Choose one thing other than 'being unhittable' and dedicate yourself to being as good as you can at that, then spend whatever resources you have left over on the 'being harder to hit' idea.

eggs
2012-07-22, 08:13 PM
I mean a caster having a d4 hit dice max HP assuming 14 or 16 con is like 120 to 140 HP. thats about 5-6 attacks. 1 standard and 1 full attack?
That's not a good thing. Let's assume you can get that hit in, and you can do it while the caster's casting. 30ish damage isn't going to interrupt a spell, and 5 rounds is going to be well after most fights have finished.

The problem is that the Duelist isn't a threat, and if its defensive stats are supposed to be beneficial to the party, that's a problem.

I Suggest you give me some suggestions people.:smalltongue: (PS I'm a wizard in real life save DC for that is only 14 though...:smallfrown:)
Leaving aside the Dread Pirate/Scarlet Corsair (they're pretty similar) Intimidate/Sneak Attack builds and Tome of Battle classes that have already been mentioned, you could go somewhere along the lines of Paladin/Hellreaver for a charismatic melee beast or Bardadin for the "leadership" angle.

EDIT: And I've heard good things about certain Aura-based builds that would probably work conceptually, but I'm not sure what a decent build would look like. That might be a fruitful optimization puzzle, if you're looking to put the pieces together on your own.

It sounds like fighting unarmored is high priority for this concept. If that's the case, you could jump through hoops to tune a Monk to the appropriate stat, dip Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a), refluff the Dragon Magic "dragon husk" ACF thing or appeal to the other players to use the Defense Bonus variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm) for this game. I'd go with the latter, on account of all the metagamey crap that building to the concept otherwise entails.