Druid character, ability to speak while transformed

[etrpgb]

As far as I know the Druid class has only few disadvantages.
- it exists only one prc that actually makes him stronger (The Planar Shepherd),
- it is feat starved,
- it cannot easily communicate while in wild shape.

There is not much we can do about the first two problems, but what about the third?
A solution is obtaining telepathy. but it is possible with a druid? (the Mindbender cannot qualify, does it?) It is worth taking a level in the Master of Many Forms? The only reasonable race is the Ghostwise Halfling after all?


What do you suggest? I do not want play a silent character all the time...

[lyko555]

pearl of speech, magic item compendium
lets you speak 1 language its 500g i believe

[The Redwolf]

I thought there was a feat that let you talk while in wild shape...can't remember though, may be worth looking into.

[Khedrac]

The first option should work, but some DMs may rule otherwise: Pearl of Speech (language) (MIC).
It's a face-slot item so one would expect it to merge to uselessness when you wildshape, but the item description says that one places it under one's tongue where it merges with you and enables you to speak and understand the language in question. Since it merges to work there's a good argument that it would not stop working on form-shift (no wilding clasp (MIC) needed).

Next is to get the party sorceror/wizard to cast Telepathic Bond, Lesser/[Rary's]/Interplanar though they may have duration issues.

3rd is look for wildshapes with the ability to speak common. Dragon Wildshape from the Draconomicon (requires 12th level though) allows small and medium dragon forms - and dragons can speak (and cast spells) so they would work. Parrots and other animals capable of reproducing sounds are more of a DM's call.

[Jack_Simth]

3rd is look for wildshapes with the ability to speak common. Dragon Wildshape from the Draconomicon (requires 12th level though) allows small and medium dragon forms - and dragons can speak (and cast spells) so they would work. Parrots and other animals capable of reproducing sounds are more of a DM's call.
Parrots are an explicit RAW "no", actually:

A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.) (emphasis added)

[Hiro Protagonest]

- it exists only one prc that actually makes him stronger (The Planar Shepherd),
That's a disadvantage?

- it is feat starved,

...

Does not compute.

[Gavinfoxx]

Pearl of speech if MIC is in play, cursed amulet of thought projection if only core is in play, pick up Frozen Wild Shape or Draconic Wild Shape or Exalted Wild Shape for forms that can naturally speak.

[etrpgb]

3rd is look for wildshapes with the ability to speak common. Dragon Wildshape from the Draconomicon (requires 12th level though) allows small and medium dragon forms - and dragons can speak (and cast spells) so they would work. Parrots and other animals capable of reproducing sounds are more of a DM's call.

I am afraid not actually...
``A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.) ''

About casting spells it is needed the Natural Spell feat.

[Jack_Simth]

- it is feat starvedNot really - no bonus feats, this is true, but there's only one feat for a Druid that's effectively required (Natural Spell) - all others are gravy. You could take Skill Focus(Speak Language), Skill Focus(Craft(Useless things)), and Skill Focus(Profession(Bad Comedian)) for all your other feats and remain a perfectly competent Druid.

[Gavinfoxx]

Those wildshapes that can speak common?

Exalted Wild Shape, Frozen Wild Shape, Draconic Wild Shape. Like I said.

Really, there's a 500 gp MIC item, a... 1700 gp I think? DMG item, and three feats that get you a multitude of speaking forms going from level 9 onward. What more could you want?

[DementedFellow]

Kinda on topic, is there anything preventing a druid from using Surrogate Spellcasting while in wildshape? What difference is there between that and Natural Spell?

[lunar2]

actually, there are 2 other prestige classes that are good for a druid. faith scion (Unearthed Arcana) progresses casting, Turn/rebuke undead, Wildshape, animal companion, and wild empathy, provided you had those class features to begin with. and of course, there's legacy champion (weapons of legacy), which is good for all classes. you lose 2 caster levels, etc. from that one, though.

[Hiro Protagonest]

actually, there are 2 other prestige classes that are good for a druid. faith scion (Unearthed Arcana) progresses casting, Turn/rebuke undead, Wildshape, animal companion, and wild empathy, provided you had those class features to begin with. and of course, there's legacy champion (weapons of legacy), which is good for all classes. you lose 2 caster levels, etc. from that one, though.

...There are people who use the Unearthed Arcana Scions? They always seemed too confusing to bother with.

[lunar2]

doesn't matter how often it gets used. it still exists, and gives full casting, wildshape, and animal companion progression. it's pretty hard to do better than that.

[rel]

Telepathy.
I think there is a LA+0 halfling race with it.

[Dire Panda]

If your campaign uses psionics, Hidden Talent->Mindlink also works.

[Mnemnosyne]

Don't forget Arcane Hierophant, unless you're not counting theurges. Full caster progression on both sides, full wildshape, animal companion gets full progression, and it gets even better, and you only have to take 1 level of an arcane class and pick which 'cast 2nd level spells at level 1' trick you want to use.

[Xerinous]

If Pathfinder material is an option, there's Wild Speech (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/wild-speech).

[rot42]

The Pearl of Speech is based on Tongues, a Divination; it only gives you knowledge of the meaning/pronunciation/syntax of the chosen language, not the Transmutation effect of also granting your current form vocal chords complex enough to create speech. Similarly, it could not be used to give a language to your Int 2 animal companion.

If you do want to play that it grants the power of speech to a mute beast, just put it down before you wildshape to avoid the question of what happens to something that melds with your form twice.

[demigodus]

The simplest is to set up codes with your party (this is the suggestion I kept hearing from people):

~purring = yes

~low growl = no

~loud growl = you are upset

~biting someone's face off = that was stupid

etc.

Set up a few simple ones, your party will eventually learn the code...

[Khedrac]

The Pearl of Speech is based on Tongues, a Divination; it only gives you knowledge of the meaning/pronunciation/syntax of the chosen language, not the Transmutation effect of also granting your current form vocal chords complex enough to create speech.Sorry, the above is wrong. Yes it is created using the Tongues spell, but it is not the tongues spell.
To (very briefly) quote the Magic Item Compendium "the pearl grants you the ability to speak and understand a specific language". There is nothing there that says your form has to have the vocal chords - yes it must have a mouth and tongue (from the description of how the item is used) but it grants the ability to speak the language.
As for its use on an animal - one would need to get the animal to use it (see MIC page 118) but it would work - in effect the reverse of a "Speak with Animals" spell.

[TuggyNE]

The Pearl of Speech is based on Tongues, a Divination; it only gives you knowledge of the meaning/pronunciation/syntax of the chosen language, not the Transmutation effect of also granting your current form vocal chords complex enough to create speech. Similarly, it could not be used to give a language to your Int 2 animal companion.

For what it's worth, a druid party member planned to have her tiger companion share her Pearl* for things like circumstance bonuses to Intimidate, or just general hilarity. "I CAN HAS EATS NAO?" "I'll talk, I'll talk!"

:smallwink:


* The unpleasantness of putting something under your tongue that a tiger had just been salivating on was never discussed.

[Darrin]

Kinda on topic, is there anything preventing a druid from using Surrogate Spellcasting while in wildshape? What difference is there between that and Natural Spell?

As with Natural Spell, that allows spellcasting, but doesn't allow actual verbal speech. The only real difference between the two is Surrogate Spellcasting has the [Monstrous] tag, which isn't automatically available to PCs. The rules for Monstrous feats in Savage Species essentially gives your DM a "veto":

"Only creatures with a monstrous form or one or more monstrous abilities may select these feats. Monstrous forms and abilities are those that are unavailable to normal humanoid or animal creatures, including but not limited to extra appendages, nonstandard appendages (such as tentacles or a tail), supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. With your DM’s permission, you may be able to choose monstrous feats for your character if your character acquired unusual abilities through transformation or by advancing in a prestige class."

Druid's wild shape wouldn't count as a "prestige class", but it would probably be considered a transformation (text doesn't specify temporary or permanent). It's not entirely clear to me if the designers were trying to exclude base classes such as druids or it just didn't occur to them that every druid would want/need this. Savage Species is one of those 3.25 books, so they were aware of 3.5, but it might not have been established that Natural Spell was going to be a core 3.5 feat (it was previously printed in Masters of the Wild). Even if they knew Natural Spell was going to be Core, it requires wild shape, which would exclude many monsters with shape-changing abilities. Hence, Surrogate Spellcasting is the non-druid monster version of Natural Spell, but based on the wording of the prereqs, it looks like it could be taken by humanoid druids as well (subject to DM approval).

There's also Nonverbal Spell in the Planar Handbook, which does nearly the same thing as either Surrogate Spellcasting or Natural Spell, but has no prereqs at all.

[Bronk]

Also, elementals can speak, so a druid using the 'elemental wildshape' option would be good to go.

[Sutremaine]

You could have a Vitalist in the party. They're a psionic healing class able to fold people into a collective that can communicate telepathically. Range is measured in tens of feet until high level.