Weapons of Legacy

[lunar2]

so, a few questions about legacy stuff.

1. are they actually worth it? this is actually 2 questions. is picking up a pre-existing one worth it, and is founding your own worth it.

2. legacy creatures. is there actually any good reason that PCs shouldn't have this? it works great for avoiding christmas tree effects. you have power equivalent to certain standard magic items, simply because you are a badass, and you've been in some awesome or weird situations. if it would be ok for PCs to have it, would it require an LA, or would maybe having them pay the personal costs (but not the ritual costs) be better.

[Answerer]

Weapons of Legacy is a terribly-written book. Decent idea, awful execution. I don't recommend, well, anything from it. Find a homebrew system for this if you really need one (though it'd be pretty trivial to fluff an ordinary magic weapon or armor this way).

EDIT: Actually, I haven't read about Legacy creatures, so I can't say for sure on those. I'd be shocked if they were worth using, but I'll not assume it.

[Flickerdart]

Weapons of legacy are worth it only if you make a custom one, and even then not always.

[Answerer]

If the custom weapon is "worth it," it's because it's better than it otherwise would be. Your trading a risk (you might lose the weapon) for something, presumably, that makes this risk "worth it."

The problem then becomes that the DM is put into an extremely awkward position: either they let you have your trinket that is "worth" the risk of losing it (which is, by definition, better than you could otherwise do with the same investment), at which point the risk becomes purely theoretical and therefore the weapon is better and without drawbacks.

Or they take it away, severely and permanently damaging your character. For some characters, the penalties can literally be crippling, all but forcing the player to start a new character. Not a lot of players will appreciate this, and not a lot of DMs want to do that kind of thing to a player.

So the DM is in a lose-lose situation. I know when I DM, I'd never want such a situation to occur, and I'd ban it and work out something more sane than the idiocy in Weapons of Legacy if the player really needed it.

I cannot emphasize how much I would not use the Weapons of Legacy rules.

[dascarletm]

If the custom weapon is "worth it," it's because it's better than it otherwise would be. Your trading a risk (you might lose the weapon) for something, presumably, that makes this risk "worth it."

The problem then becomes that the DM is put into an extremely awkward position: either they let you have your trinket that is "worth" the risk of losing it (which is, by definition, better than you could otherwise do with the same investment), at which point the risk becomes purely theoretical and therefore the weapon is better and without drawbacks.

Or they take it away, severely and permanently damaging your character. For some characters, the penalties can literally be crippling, all but forcing the player to start a new character. Not a lot of players will appreciate this, and not a lot of DMs want to do that kind of thing to a player.

So the DM is in a lose-lose situation. I know when I DM, I'd never want such a situation to occur, and I'd ban it and work out something more sane than the idiocy in Weapons of Legacy if the player really needed it.

I cannot emphasize how much I would not use the Weapons of Legacy rules.

I as a DM would let them keep it, and I think many others would think so as well.

It's not all just numbers, weapons of legacy add adventure hooks, and more dimensions to the game. That's why I buff them to make it worth it. I had a player who loved the idea of them.

I think once I had someone try to win it from him in a duel, but only because he was being a braggart about his neat sword.

[Answerer]

You can easily provide the same fluff and plot hooks without the completely awful rules.

[dascarletm]

You can easily provide the same fluff and plot hooks without the completely awful rules.

That is true.

I always homebrew'd the weapons since the player liked them so much.

But you are right, I wouldn't recommend without homebrewing and/or a player interested in them for their flavor.

[gorfnab]

Building a Weapon of Legacy Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=485)

[Andorax]

Been working on a project to cost out the value of legacy weapons if they were built conventionally, and subtracting out the mitigation of their costs. Generally speaking, they DO turn out to be worth more than they cost you, assuming the selection of abilities is actually useful and in line with your concept.

The key is whether they're properly built or not, and how good your access is to custom made-to-demand items. If you actually have to regularly make use of what you find instead of custom ordering whatever you can afford with your WBL, they're worth another look.

[lunar2]

Weapons of Legacy is a terribly-written book. Decent idea, awful execution. I don't recommend, well, anything from it. Find a homebrew system for this if you really need one (though it'd be pretty trivial to fluff an ordinary magic weapon or armor this way).

EDIT: Actually, I haven't read about Legacy creatures, so I can't say for sure on those. I'd be shocked if they were worth using, but I'll not assume it.

a legacy creature is pretty much the same as the base creature, with legacy item abilities. legacy creatures don't have to undergo rituals or pay personal costs, they just choose their abilities based on their level. the template is CR+1 for 5-10 HD, Cr+2 for 11-16 HD, and CR+3 for 17+ HD, assuming that the highest level abilities available are always chosen.

the template specifically states that PCs can't have it (in fact, only monstrous creatures with a Su ability can have it. humanoids, plants, and constructs can't get it at all). apparently, PCs shouldn't have choices and inherent power, they have to have a christmas tree. it's definitely variable in power, but probably along the lines of phrenic creature over all (if you pick a bunch of 1/day and 3/day SLAs). so, i was thinking LA 2, or maybe LA 3.