Xykon and Girard's Gate (when and what will happen) [Archive]

LordRahl6

2012-07-22, 04:36 PM

In rereading #331, I remebered that Xykon was going to arrive at Girard'd Gate next. Yet, he has not appeared currently. When will this happen, like say immediately after the Linear Guild with Tarquin, or a little while later. Also what will the confrontation be like. Finally will it be in Book 5 or 6? Six is my guess will how long it has been since the last compliation.

Emanick

2012-07-22, 04:44 PM

What if Xykon and Redcloak are already at the Gate?

I just thought of this, but it's totally possible. I would have expected Xykon to zombify the Draketooths, but V mentioned that their room had been invisible until 20 minutes earlier, so they may have arrived too early to notice it. It's totally possible that they went straight down and are already at the Gate, working TDO's Ritual.

I'm guessing we're merely in for an extremely long Book Five. Can you imagine a break between books at a juncture like this? I sure can't.

NerfTW

2012-07-22, 04:49 PM

My guess was originally that they arrived after the gate was destroyed, but as they're already teleporting to the secret base, it's unlikely they'll be delayed long enough to miss the Order and the Guild.

I think a Linear Guild Order of the Stick team up would be pretty awesome. I don't think a three way battle would really work, since Nale's pointed out the futility of such an act before, and having the forces of good in control of the gate is preferable to someone who will use it against them.

My guess is the Guild joins with one side or the other, and I'm rooting for the Order.

The Pilgrim

2012-07-22, 05:17 PM

Won't make it in time.

Forum Explorer

2012-07-22, 05:19 PM

B. Dandelion

2012-07-22, 05:37 PM

I think a three-way could be pretty entertaining. (Snicker snicker... yes, get it out of your system... :smallwink:) I've thought for a while this one might come down to a lot of side-swapping to and fro. The Linear Guild are in an interesting position. Team Evil has the power advantage, but they need to capture the Gate intact. The Order want to stop it from falling into their hands, meaning they're willing to destroy it if that's what it takes, so they may be able to use that knowledge to even the odds. The LG want a piece of the action, and they need the ritual Team Evil has, so they don't want to piss them off too much... yet, if it comes down to it, a clear win for Team Evil seems incompatible not only for Nale or Tarquin but also their secret sponsors below. They have reason to ally with either side, so why stick with just one? Tarquin's made his profession out of the cross-and-doublecross.

EmperorSarda

2012-07-22, 09:20 PM

I would guess the Guild would actually split. Tarquin and Malek plus the kobold would support the Order. Nale would support Xykon figuring he could then manipulate Xykon into giving him what he wants.

For Xykon and Redcloak to accept Nales's help and not backstab him later would require a lot of kissing up. Nale would have to lie about being here because he cannot exactly say he was securing the gate for them, because how is he supposed to know about the gates? They'd find it mightily suspicious if he does mention them.

But seeing that the take down of the resistance happened the same day as the gladiatorial battle, it may be sooner than expected. We know that Xykon needs Redcloak to prepare a bunch of spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html), which will take one day. And then they probably will wait for Redcloak to regain spells before heading to Girard's gate. That's another day. So two days in total.

And V was in the one demi-plane for two days (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0835.html). So either Xykon and Redcloak are already there, or they are yet to pop in. And they can pop in at any moment.

Mike Havran

2012-07-23, 03:42 AM

If Xykon is on his way to Girards gate, how come Eugene is not haunting Roy about it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html)? I've thought about some options:

a) Xykon is still on the astral plane.
Rather unlikely, given that a few days should have already passed from strip #833.

b) Eugene doesn't want to warn Roy.
Also unlikely; even though Eugene is a jerkass, he does want to see Xykon destroyed and will help even Roy in that matter.

c) Eugene cannot warn Roy.
He might still be banned from manifesting on the mortal plane, but that is awkward since also Good guys in heaven want Roy to succeed. Also, Eugene wouldn't be so sure in his line in #664 if he was still banned.

d) Minor glitch in the comics

ti'esar

2012-07-23, 03:44 AM

Your reason for C isn't the only one possible.

Mike Havran

2012-07-23, 04:13 AM

Your reason for C isn't the only one possible.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure of that. Could you offer another one then, please? So far, I can think only of some Girard's leftover magic blocking the connection. Or perhaps the reforging of Roy's sword meant Eugene can't use the spiritual connection anymore? Neither of these reasons is very likely, though.

EmperorSarda

2012-07-23, 04:32 AM

If Xykon is on his way to Girards gate, how come Eugene is not haunting Roy about it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html)? I've thought about some options:
Didn't all hauntings happen in the night time, or when Roy was near sleep? Or perhaps when all but Roy is asleep?

a) Xykon is still on the astral plane.
Rather unlikely, given that a few days should have already passed from strip #833.

It has only been two days since Astral plane time. Xykon could still be on the astral plane.

Mike Havran

2012-07-23, 04:45 AM

Didn't all hauntings happen in the night time, or when Roy was near sleep? Or perhaps when all but Roy is asleep?

It is not a requirement.
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html) Eugene could haunt right away, in a pinch.

EmperorSarda

2012-07-23, 05:22 AM

It is not a requirement.
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html) Eugene could haunt right away, in a pinch.

True, Eugene would not try to haunt Roy if he couldn't haunt Roy at that time. I was initially going off the successful hauntings.

Dunno, my guess is that once Xykon popped into the Astral Plane that Eugene lost track of him.

Gift Jeraff

2012-07-23, 07:37 AM

I thought it was rather apparent that #834 occurred within moments of #833, in which case the only significant passing of time (since entering the Astral Plane) was between #835 and 836.

EmperorSarda

2012-07-23, 08:07 AM

I thought it was rather apparent that #834 occurred within moments of #833, in which case the only significant passing of time (since entering the Astral Plane) was between #835 and 836.

If that were true then there is still a day or so before Xykon shows up?

LordRahl6

2012-07-23, 09:41 AM

It is true that Xykon and Redcloak could be at the Gate already, but that would most likely require a whole host of locating and dispel magic spells tailored toward removing illusions. I would have to agree that this is most likely what is happening or has happened with those two at the moment as we have not cut back to them yet.:smallwink:

As for the possibility of a three-way fight (or more), most of those start out with some degree of cooperation between at least two of the parties involved. Given the history of the LG, the only reason that I can possibily see for this going off without a great hitch would be the X factor, Tarquin. As he's still a great unknown outside his alignment, I'm not putting it as hsppening in the ballpark.:smallsigh:

As for Eugene contacting Roy, the ONLY requirement for contact is that the Sword is in one piece.:smallamused:

dtilque

2012-07-24, 07:09 PM

Besides Eugene haunting Roy, there should be another thing preceding Team Evil to Girard's gate. Hinjo promised to Send to Roy in the event the phylactery was found. Hinjo should have gotten word from Niu and done this while Xykon & Co. are in the astral plane.

But we really don't know exactly how the events at Azure City/Gobbotopia synch up with those in the Western Continent. My best guess is that Xykon has not reached the gate yet.

EmperorSarda

2012-07-24, 07:31 PM

Besides Eugene haunting Roy, there should be another thing preceding Team Evil to Girard's gate. Hinjo promised to Send to Roy in the event the phylactery was found. Hinjo should have gotten word from Niu and done this while Xykon & Co. are in the astral plane.

Does Hinjo have a wizard to send to the Order? I thought all messages were passed when either the Elves, the Resistance or the Order sended to him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html).

ti'esar

2012-07-24, 07:40 PM

Does Hinjo have a wizard to send to the Order? I thought all messages were passed when either the Elves, the Resistance or the Order sended to him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html).

Hinjo states he can't contact the Resistance, but I think that's because of the Cloister effect - he doesn't say anything for certain about the Order. And since I'm pretty sure that Sending doesn't allow two-way communication, this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html) makes it pretty clear that he must have some way to contact them.

EmperorSarda

2012-07-24, 07:52 PM

And since I'm pretty sure that Sending doesn't allow two-way communication
While the official Sending spell does not allow two-way communication, Oots-World Sending does (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0733.html).

this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html) makes it pretty clear that he must have some way to contact them.
Except that strip V says he contacted Hinjo, not the other way around.

dtilque

2012-07-24, 08:06 PM

Let's hope Hinjo has a scroll saved for emergencies.

ti'esar

2012-07-24, 08:13 PM

While the official Sending spell does not allow two-way communication, Oots-World Sending does (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0733.html).

Interesting, I hadn't noticed that. It didn't seem to work that way back with Nale's sending-spam at Cliffport.

EmperorSarda

2012-07-24, 08:15 PM

Let's hope Hinjo has a scroll saved for emergencies.

Except Sending is not a Paladin spell, which means in order to use a scroll of Sending, Hinjo would need some ranks in Use Magic Device.

JavaScribe

2012-07-24, 09:55 PM

And since I'm pretty sure that Sending doesn't allow two-way communication...

I don't know how accurate it is, but this website seems to disagree with you. (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/SRD:Sending) It says that the subject can "answer in like manner immediately."

Finagle

2012-07-24, 11:49 PM

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see everyone arrive at the gate, only to find Team Evil already there, proceeding with preparations for the gate ritual.

JavaScribe

2012-07-25, 12:38 AM

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see everyone arrive at the gate, only to find Team Evil already there, proceeding with preparations for the gate ritual.

How would they do that? Team Evil will need to spend at least a couple days on the Astral Plane. It wouldn't take more than a full day for Roy's dad or Hinjo to send a message that Xykon's recovered the phylactery.

EmperorSarda

2012-07-25, 05:02 AM

How would they do that? Team Evil will need to spend at least a couple days on the Astral Plane. It wouldn't take more than a full day for Roy's dad or Hinjo to send a message that Xykon's recovered the phylactery.

Except we do not know if Xykon and Redcloak went to the Astral plane the day of the Gladiator matches or when Durkon and V got back from their planar jaunt.

Also, Hinjo is the one always being contacted with Send, so he cannot contact the Order.

We also know that Xykon has been out of the Azure City for a few days now and Eugene has yet to send a message. And surely he has had enough time to haunt Roy to tell him that Reddy and Xykon have at least entered the Astral plane. Which means something is either preventing him from contacting Roy or Eugene has lost track of Xykon when Xykon first left the city.

Finagle

2012-07-25, 06:02 AM

How would they do that? Team Evil will need to spend at least a couple days on the Astral Plane. It wouldn't take more than a full day for Roy's dad or Hinjo to send a message that Xykon's recovered the phylactery.
One day. Enough for Redcloak to get new spells (8 hours), cast them, then get new spells again (8 hours).

I don't believe in the warning from Hinjo or Eugene. Where's the drama in that? The author has been taking pains lately to demonstrate just how boring things are when they work according to plan. Thus, things will not work according to plan.

LordRahl6

2012-07-25, 10:40 AM

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see everyone arrive at the gate, only to find Team Evil already there, proceeding with preparations for the gate ritual.

Not to mention quite hilarious!:smallcool:

JavaScribe

2012-07-25, 03:54 PM

We also know that Xykon has been out of the Azure City for a few days now and Eugene has yet to send a message.

Didn't you just say "Except we do not know if Xykon and Redcloak went to the Astral plane the day of the Gladiator matches or when Durkon and V got back from their planar jaunt." in the exact same post?

One day. Enough for Redcloak to get new spells (8 hours), cast them, then get new spells again (8 hours).

8 hours are for wizards. Clerics have to pray once a day at a specific time. (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/SRD:Cleric)

I don't believe in the warning from Hinjo or Eugene. Where's the drama in that? The author has been taking pains lately to demonstrate just how boring things are when they work according to plan. Thus, things will not work according to plan.

Yeah, like in this strip. Because things always don't go according to plan. Not just frequently. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html)

Those complicated rules governing spirits could easily harry Eugene, but I'm sure Hinjo has some means to contact the Order. He was able to contact the elves pretty quickly after receiving info from the Order after all

EmperorSarda

2012-07-25, 04:10 PM

Didn't you just say "Except we do not know if Xykon and Redcloak went to the Astral plane the day of the Gladiator matches or when Durkon and V got back from their planar jaunt." in the exact same post?
Yes. But we do not know what Eugene is watching, if he was strictly watching Xykon and trying to figure out where he went (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html), or if he has been watching Redcloak in the meantime.

Though if we assume that Redcloak and Xykon went to the Astral plane the day Durkon and V got back then it has not even been a day, a few hours at most, so Eugene may not have had the time to haunt Roy yet.

Still, this is only supposition for why Eugene has not shown up yet, we don't know if there are any extraneous reasons keeping Eugene from haunting Roy.

Those complicated rules governing spirits could easily harry Eugene, but I'm sure Hinjo has some means to contact the Order. He was able to contact the elves pretty quickly after receiving info from the Order after all

Hinjo asked Durkon to contact the Elves (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) for him. Hinjo has no means of contacting anyone, he has to wait. (Though if the nobles have sufficiently high level wizards, perhaps they might be of some use. But we have had no evidence of Hinjo using any personal wizards of any of the nobles. Not to mention the inherent favors Hinjo would owe to said noble.)

Kish

2012-07-25, 04:11 PM

8 hours are for wizards.
Preparing a full complement of spells two or three times in a day is not for anyone.

No matter what your class is, if you cast spells, you can cast X number of daily spells. If you cast them all and go to bed in the middle of the afternoon, even if you drug yourself so you can sleep, guess what? When you wake up at 10 PM, you'll still find yourself unable to prepare or cast more spells until tomorrow. This isn't a CRPG.

LordRahl6

2012-07-26, 09:26 AM

Preparing a full complement of spells two or three times in a day is not for anyone.

No matter what your class is, if you cast spells, you can cast X number of daily spells. If you cast them all and go to bed in the middle of the afternoon, even if you drug yourself so you can sleep, guess what? When you wake up at 10 PM, you'll still find yourself unable to prepare or cast more spells until tomorrow. This isn't a CRPG.

I'm not so sure on the point of spells in your own repertoire. Sure any class needs eight hours of rest no matter their race to cast again.(This being why V spends four hours doing nothing after mediating to begin preparing spells again.) However, clerics do need to prepare spells at a particular time important to their diety. So once again it depends upon classes again.:smallwink:

Kish

2012-07-26, 09:34 AM

I'm not so sure on the point of spells in your own repertoire. Sure any class needs eight hours of rest no matter their race to cast again.

Actually, no. Clerics don't require rest to prepare spells. They require, instead, for it to be a specific time that day. And, again, everyone can prepare their daily complement of spells once a day.

A wizard can prepare 10% of her spells at dawn (takes fifteen minutes), 20% at noon (fifteen minutes), 30% at 4 PM (18 minutes) and the last 40% right before going to sleep (24 minutes) if she wants to be pointlessly weird. But a wizard can never prepare 100% of her spells at dawn, cast them, rest for another eight hours and prepare them again that day. It's just not how it works. And, as JavaScribe points out, rest has nothing to do with Redcloak's ability to prepare spells; if it's the right time of day for a cleric of the Dark One to prepare spells then he can regardless of how sleep-deprived he is, and if it isn't he just can't.

Kalrany

2012-07-26, 10:12 AM

...
Though if we assume that Redcloak and Xykon went to the Astral plane the day Durkon and V got back then it has not even been a day, a few hours at most, so Eugene may not have had the time to haunt Roy yet.

Still, this is only supposition for why Eugene has not shown up yet, we don't know if there are any extraneous reasons keeping Eugene from haunting Roy.

OK. So Eugene haunts Roy via the sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html). I could not find any example in the comic that he has been able to haunt again now that the sword has been reforged. Do we know if that change was permanent once the sword was broken, or simply during the time that it was not whole. Or is it due to the fact that it is a different sword now that it has been forged with starmetal? Or if he was cloud-bound permanently due to his jaunt with Shojo... My questions stem from the fact that 1- Eugene does not address this while Roy was with him in the afterlife, and 2- we don't even know if it is possible for Eugene to contact Roy again at this stage.
It is possible that there is no option for advanced warning on team evil's arrival.

Winter

2012-07-26, 12:16 PM

I find it to be an interesting (but probably totally meaningless) sidenote that Eugene can haunt at all.
He has not real connection with the sword and only barely one to Roy.

dps

2012-08-05, 02:42 PM

Yes. But we do not know what Eugene is watching, if he was strictly watching Xykon and trying to figure out where he went (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html), or if he has been watching Redcloak in the meantime.

Though if we assume that Redcloak and Xykon went to the Astral plane the day Durkon and V got back then it has not even been a day, a few hours at most, so Eugene may not have had the time to haunt Roy yet.

Still, this is only supposition for why Eugene has not shown up yet, we don't know if there are any extraneous reasons keeping Eugene from haunting Roy.

Given that it's Eugene, he might be spending his time scrying on women taking showers.

Tridax

2012-08-05, 04:00 PM

Oh man, I remember someone posting at strip discussion about this. Something like 'Fight ensues, the Order is probably winning, black smoke everywhere, and suddenly yellow eyes and...

'Hi'

This gives me shivers from one thought.

Also I consider it pretty hilarious if Linear guild, Order of the Stick and Team Evil gather at the gate and in ackward silence look at each other.

But my thoughts are that TE will come to the gate any moment, perhaps 10-15 strips?

Vahir

2012-08-05, 08:38 PM

I'll be disappointed if this doesn't end in a cluster**** between the Order, Team Evil, Team Nale, Tarquin with his soldiers cleverly concealed nearby awaiting orders to storm the area, and team Nale.

JavaScribe

2012-08-06, 01:35 PM

OK. So Eugene haunts Roy via the sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html). I could not find any example in the comic that he has been able to haunt again now that the sword has been reforged. Do we know if that change was permanent once the sword was broken, or simply during the time that it was not whole.

Eugene seemed to believe that he could continue haunting again if the sword is fixed. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html)

Or is it due to the fact that it is a different sword now that it has been forged with starmetal?

Unknown, but Eugene hasn't complained.

Or if he was cloud-bound permanently due to his jaunt with Shojo.

They are probably blocking him from summoning spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html), but since the Diva told him to warn his son about Vaarsuvius's bargaining with fiends, I am guessing he is still allowed to haunt. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html)

My questions stem from the fact that 1- Eugene does not address this while Roy was with him in the afterlife, and 2- we don't even know if it is possible for Eugene to contact Roy again at this stage.
It is possible that there is no option for advanced warning on team evil's arrival.

If nothing else, Hinjo could send a boat to the nearest port and hire a wizard.