Using Battle Jump in battle

[GrumblyBear]

Hello! I've been a GitP lurker for quite some time, but am just starting my posting career.

Anywho, I'm looking for a way to incorporate battle jump into combat. Right now, as the feat is written, it mostly just seems like something that is done if you happen to ambush your opponent and have a lucky ledge nearby. For those unfamiliar with the feat, I'll include it at the end of the post.

But yeah, it doesn't seem right that my character will run up to the enemy and execute a Mario style jump onto aforementioned creature's head... Is there any way to a long jump OVER the opponent and stop mid jump? Allowing me to drop onto the creature?





Battle Jump: You can execute a charge by simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent. For example, a ledge 10 feet above the floor of a cavern would suffice for jumping on a Medium-sized creature, while a ledge 15 feet high is required for a jumping on a Large creature. You can't jump from more than 30 feet above your opponent, nor can you effectively battle jump while under the influence of a fly or levitate spell or effect, as you have to hurl yourself down on your foe. If you hit, you can choose either to deal double damage with a melee weapon or natural attack or to attempt a trip attack. You are treated as one size category larger than normal if you try to trip your opponent with the battle jump. After you attack, you take falling damage as normal for the distance you jumped. You are entitled to a Jump check (DC 15) to take less damage, as if you had fallen 10 feet less than you actually did. If you fail this Jump check, you fall prone 5 feet from your opponent. You can also use Battle Jump to begin a grapple attempt instead of making a normal attack. If you do, you are treated as one size category larger than normal for the first grapple check following the battle jump.

[Fouredged Sword]

Marital study: Sudden leap

[Hiro Protagonest]

Marital study: Sudden leap

What does that do? Does it mean you studied the art of jumping to conclusions about your significant other?

As for Battle Jump, I'm going to say it's supposed to work like Assassin's Creed, not Mario, and leave it at that.

[lsfreak]

If you have a non-magical way to fly, you can simply stop flying and fall instead.

You could pump your Jump check to high numbers and simply standing-jump straight up and down. It's a DC40 if you can negate the need for a running start; I thought you could in a couple ways but I'm too rusty to remember how (Leap of the Heavens feat?)

[Piggy Knowles]

A climb speed or the Up the Walls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#upTheWalls) feat helps. So does dropping off of a flying mount.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Dragonborn template with the wings. You get a +10 jump boost and at 12HD you get dive attack to do even more damage.

[Snowbluff]

As for Battle Jump, I'm going to say it's supposed to work like Mario, not Assassin's Creed, and leave it at that.

FTFY

Sometimes people forget how gravity works. :smalltongue:

[Feralventas]

You'll probably want to max out Tumble and Jump to mitigate falling damage and such.

Take a dip in Warblade; the Sudden Leap isn't a bad idea, but more so you'll want to grab the Leaping Dragon Stance which automatically grants you 10ft to your jump checks, which essentially qualifies you for the feat. Doing it as a move action means you won't have your full attack unless you pick up Pounce, so the usual dip into Lion Totem Barbarian to grab that as well is probably manditory.

Now if you REALLY want to be cool about it....
Binder1 for access to 1st level Vestiges, bind Ronove so that you have Feather fall whenever you need it.
Lion-Totem Barbarian to grab the Pounce ability.
Warblade for a few levels, picking up several Tiger Claw and White Raven maneuvers.

You can now jump like no one's business with a non-magical minimum of 15 feet (if you max out Jump) and float down, or use these in combination with a movement to arc your movement over walls or obstacles.

You'll need to be 6th level for this next bit to work, and might need to sacrifice a level or two of Warblade for Fighter to pick up Combat Expertise, Mobility, Dodge, and Weapon Focus (edged weapon of your choice) so that you can go Dervish.

Now, you can jump, attack while in motion, arc your jump to go over multiple targets and attack from above (making your charge a line of attack actions up to your BAB limit.)

So,
Binder1
Barbarian (Lion Totem) 1.
Fighter1
Fighter2
Warblade1 (3rd level initiator because of ToB's multi-class rules, so you can grab the stance right here.)
Warblade 2
Dervish #


Btw, I'm terrible at char-op so someone should probably point out the things I've missed or how this might be better done.

[Averis Vol]

Why not just use leap attack? It says you make a jump as part of the charge, jsut beef up your jump and land on top of an opponent, technically the arching jump would match the distance you were required to fall.

[killianh]

The total DC for making BOTH a Leap attack with the feat of the same name, and the 5ft jump (since you need to fall 5ft to use it) for battle jump is 25. DC 25 jump is easy especially if you're a strength based character, plus the skill points, items, etc.

Also the feat leap attack grants either 1-1\2 damage return or 3:1 damage return with a 2 handed weapon if you use power attack. Leap attack, Power attack, Battle jump, and Shock trooper are the main feats for an ubercharger build

[Curmudgeon]

Why not just use leap attack? It says you make a jump as part of the charge, jsut beef up your jump and land on top of an opponent, technically the arching jump would match the distance you were required to fall.
These two feats can't be combined. Leap Attack requires you to cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump. Battle Jump replaces the normal movement on a charge with simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent. Because a D&D horizontal leap is only ¼ as high as it is long, you'll never be above your opponent with a Leap Attack; at best you might be above their head height, but way back at the midpoint of your leap ─ nowhere close to ever being above them.

[killianh]

These two feats can't be combined. Leap Attack requires you to cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump. Battle Jump replaces the normal movement on a charge with simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent. Because a D&D horizontal leap is only ¼ as high as it is long, you'll never be above your opponent with a Leap Attack; at best you might be above their head height, but way back at the midpoint of your leap ─ nowhere close to ever being above them.

So declare a 20 foot charge. 1\4 height is the 5 foot drop needed for battle jump. You'll reach this point in the middle of the charge, or after charging 10 feet. This meets the requirement for both feats

[Curmudgeon]

So declare a 20 foot charge. 1\4 height is the 5 foot drop needed for battle jump. You'll reach this point in the middle of the charge, or after charging 10 feet. This meets the requirement for both feats
You're required to drop from above the enemy for Battle Jump, and you're never above them. "At higher elevation" at some horizontal remove is not the same as "above" .

[Cespenar]

As for Battle Jump, I'm going to say it's supposed to work like Assassin's Creed, not Mario, and leave it at that.

+1 Valorous Hidden Blade?

[killianh]

You're required to drop from above the enemy for Battle Jump, and you're never above them. "At higher elevation" at some horizontal remove is not the same as "above" .

I'd call that one open to interpretation personally. If I at any point am at a higher elevation than another person I would also be called "above" that person at that moment. If that is the moment of impact then I am above them by 5ft at that point making the battle jump valid. This seems like one of those wording issues that create a grey area by RAW, but considering this is the tactic used in almost all Ubercharger builds I would assume its valid otherwise someone would have disproved the combo way way back when it was first introduced to the various CO boards

[Killer Angel]

I'd call that one open to interpretation personally. If I at any point am at a higher elevation than another person I would also be called "above" that person at that moment. If that is the moment of impact then I am above them by 5ft at that point making the battle jump valid. This seems like one of those wording issues that create a grey area by RAW,

If you're going to claim that a tactic is RAW, you'd better be able to make sure that the rules specifically uphold your claim...not simply that they're sort of vague and COULD be interpreted in such a way as to not FORBID your claim.
IMO "You can execute a charge by simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent", don't combine well with leap attack.

[killianh]

...which is why I stated that it falls into the grey area by RAW rather than simply calling it RAW. Using battle jump in this way falls into a classic RAW vs. RAI scenario wherein the wording neither allows nor denies it's use in that particular matter. In this case "simply dropping from a height of 5ft" could be accomplished by falling from a height of 5ft created by jumping to said height. In which case being at the end of a 20ft charge would mean that at some point during the charge action you have reached the required height and dropped from it allowing both Battle Jump and Leap attack to be used in the same attack

[Feralventas]

You're required to drop from above the enemy for Battle Jump, and you're never above them. "At higher elevation" at some horizontal remove is not the same as "above" .

So we use Leaping Dragon Stance to get 10ft minimum jump with no modifiers or ranks (except that there's also a minimum 8 ranks in Jump for one of the feats, and we'll presume you've got a 16 in STR since that's not that far-fetched, so it's minimum 12ft jump).

Leap attack requires 10ft horizontal movement before you hit your target.

Battle jump requires that you come at your foe from above to get it to work.

So you jump up, move 10ft at least, and come down from above your target. This is neither impossible nor difficult to achieve, though you will be eating a Lot of AOO's for moving through threatened squares in order to get in place.

[Killer Angel]

...which is why I stated that it falls into the grey area by RAW rather than simply calling it RAW. Using battle jump in this way falls into a classic RAW vs. RAI scenario wherein the wording neither allows nor denies it's use in that particular matter.

I'm perfectly fine with this and, given that we're moving in a grey area, it's safer to assume that we can't count on this combo, unless approved by the DM.

Edit: sorry if my first post sounded a little harsh... it wasn't my intention, I wasn't agreeing with the "I would assume its valid " part.

[Bloodgruve]

Going after a medium creature you need a 40DC Jump check to achieve a High Jump of 10ft or a long jump of 40ft with a 10ft apex if you have a 20ft run up or Leap of the Heavens. A High Jump doesn't qualify you for the Leap Attack 10ft horizontal movement. A Long Jump has you sailing over the target because you would hit the height requirement at midpoint through the jump which would give you another 20ft before you land, not really falling vertically down on the target.

I would personally allow it as a DM even if it wasn't strictly RAW.. IMHO if you can meet that DC I would think that you have enough control to get the jump you're looking for.

Blood~

[Darrin]

A High Jump doesn't qualify you for the Leap Attack 10ft horizontal movement.


It can if you start 5' away from your opponent or move 5' back before you jump. You could use swift-action movement (Travel Devotion, Anklets of Translocation, Abrupt Jaunt, etc.), or you could also just use a normal move action to back up for a running start. You can then high jump to land in the square 5' directly above your opponent. You still need to end your jump in a square where you threaten your opponent, and the Battle Jump feat indicates that you need to be at least 5' above your opponent's head, so you'll probably want at least 10' of reach.

Then the main problem with Leap Attack would be: "This attack must follow all the normal rules for using the Jump skill and for making a charge". Normal rules for charging means you have to travel in a straight line to the closest space, and 5' above your opponent 1) isn't in a straight line and 2) isn't the closest space.

However, Battle Jump doesn't require that you declare a charge to start your turn. It doesn't really care how exactly you got above your opponent, so whatever actions you used to get up there, it's not actually a charge until you start falling (you could, for example, double move or even run as a full-round action off of a cliff, and turn that into a charge). At that point you could argue that so long as you've satisfied the horizontal and threaten requirements for Leap Attack, you've also satisfied the "normal" requirements for Battle Jump, and can now combine the two for the bonus damage. That's still more of a "DM's Call", though.

[Bloodgruve]

It can if you start 5' away from your opponent or move 5' back before you jump.

If we are talking strictly RAW there is no horizontal movement listed under high jump in the SRD. I may be missing something from another resource though. Also, I would assume that you would have some potential for horizontal movement but again its not listed.

TY
Blood~

[Piggy Knowles]

These two feats can't be combined. Leap Attack requires you to cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump. Battle Jump replaces the normal movement on a charge with simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent. Because a D&D horizontal leap is only ¼ as high as it is long, you'll never be above your opponent with a Leap Attack; at best you might be above their head height, but way back at the midpoint of your leap ─ nowhere close to ever being above them.

What if you begin your jump from a higher elevation than your target?

[Curmudgeon]

... back up for a running start. You can then high jump to land in the square 5' directly above your opponent.
Where is that land above your opponent? Is there some ledge that you're magically creating?

[Darrin]

Where is that land above your opponent? Is there some ledge that you're magically creating?

Why exactly would I need a ledge? (Well, other than the text of the Jump skill in the SRD: "A high jump is a vertical leap made to reach a ledge high above or to grasp something overhead." But it's physically possible to do a high jump without a ledge or something to grab.

However, in the Rules Compendium, the wording was changed, and there's no longer any mention of a ledge:

"A high jump is a vertical leap made to reach something overhead. The DC is equal to four times the distance to be cleared."

In this case, "the empty square 5' above my opponent's head" is a perfectly viable example of "something overhead".


If we are talking strictly RAW there is no horizontal movement listed under high jump in the SRD. I may be missing something from another resource though. Also, I would assume that you would have some potential for horizontal movement but again its not listed.


To bring back the not-so-non-existent ledge, if horizontal movement was impossible with a high jump, then it would be physically impossible to jump up to a ledge or jump over a high wall. I am assuming that the jumper's forward momentum would be enough to propel him into the next square, otherwise by the rules he'd fall back down into the square he jumped from (although this is probably dangerous even beyond this initial assumption, given the trouble D&D has with "momentum"). Once the Olympics start, there should be ample examples of high-jumpers combining a high jump over a bar with at least 5' of horizontal movement (to fall on the pad on the other side of the bar).

What I'm trying to argue is Jump can be used to reach any nearby square, even those squares vertically above the squares you're standing on. The Jump rules describe how you get there, which is just a matter of determining if the jumper is trying to maximize horizontal or vertical distance. If a player declares he wants to jump above something, and the vertical distance is greater than the horizontal distance, then I can't imagine why you wouldn't use the high jump rules.

[Philistine]

Where is that land above your opponent? Is there some ledge that you're magically creating?

In your interpretation of the Feat, how are you jumping through the ledge or other horizontal surface that's supporting you directly above your Charge target? Remember that the Feat describes both starting from a ledge and landing on your target - with no horizontal movement, according to you. Your reading makes the Feat impossible to use, due to elementary geometry... unless you think the intent was to allow characters to pass through solid floors, even though that's no more mentioned explicitly in the text of the Feat than horizontal movement - whether allowed, forbidden, or required - is?

[Curmudgeon]

In your interpretation of the Feat, how are you jumping through the ledge or other horizontal surface that's supporting you directly above your Charge target?
You're ascribing to me something that I haven't claimed. I've said that Leap Attack (requiring a horizontal leap) and Battle Jump (requiring dropping from above the opponent) can't be combined. I've also said you can't land in the air directly above your opponent; after all, landing requires land (or some other support) to stand on. (That's where the ledge would be necessary.)

Battle Jump doesn't preclude horizontal movement before dropping ─ but it does require dropping rather than leaping horizontally. You can certainly take a 5' step off a ledge and enter the air space above your opponent to gain the benefit of that feat. What you can't do is make the D&D version of a parabolic arc (in D&D: a triangular arc) through the air and then expect to somehow stop your horizontal leap above the opponent and simply drop thereafter.

[DeusMortuusEst]

These two feats can't be combined. Leap Attack requires you to cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump. Battle Jump replaces the normal movement on a charge with simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent. Because a D&D horizontal leap is only ¼ as high as it is long, you'll never be above your opponent with a Leap Attack; at best you might be above their head height, but way back at the midpoint of your leap ─ nowhere close to ever being above them.

Dropping diagonally is possible, when reaching the peak of a jump you start to drop, either straight down or at an angle. All you need is a high enough jump check and movement speed and combining the two is possible.

[Bloodgruve]

What do we need to satisfy Charge, Leap Attack and Battle Jump?

Charge;
*10' directly towards the opponent
*closest space from which you can attack the opponent
*no obstacles in your path

Leap Attack;
*10' horizontal distance with a jump
*end jump in a square that you threaten the target
*satisfy the normal jump and charge rules

Battle Jump
*drop from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent
*where do you land? "as you have to hurl yourself down on your foe", "If you fail this Jump check, you fall prone 5 feet from your opponent." are both stated in the text but it does not specifically state that you move into your opponents square.

Jump
*Long Jump gains height of 25% of the length of the jump
*High Jump does not specify horizontal movement but it is implied unless you're in Mario land.


So therefore what criteria do we need to satisfy in order to combine the two feats?

1. 'Above' needs to be defined as a vertical height greater than the height of the opponent, not taking horizontal positioning into account. One definition of 'Above' (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/above) is 'in or to a higher place'.

2. Battle Jump needs to land in the closest threatening square to the opponent. Not landing in the same square as the opponent and dissatisfying Leap AttackCharge.

3. If the opponent is a medium creature the jump must reach 10ft high and 10ft long. Per RAW this would be 40ft Horizontal/10ft Vertical and DC40 with a running start.

4. Charge must not take into account vertical movement during the start of the jump in regards to 'moving directly towards the opponent'. Leap Attack requires 'normal rules for charge' to be satisfied therefor would negate itself if vertical movement is counted depending on the height of the opponent vs. trajectory of the jump.

5. 'Drop' needs to be satisfied by the movement of the jump after it reaches its apex. One definition of 'Drop' (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drop) is 'to descend from one line or level to another'.

So are all these points met? If yes the two feats can be used together, if no then they can not. Personally I think all could be met except maybe point 2 which is somewhat unclear.

I'm sure I missed a few points, please feel free to point them out.

Best regards,
Blood~

[Darrin]

I've also said you can't land in the air directly above your opponent; after all, landing requires land (or some other support) to stand on. (That's where the ledge would be necessary.)


The ledge isn't necessary. You can stand next to a 1' ledge and jump on top of it. Remove the ledge, or make it illusionary. You can perform the same jump, and try to land wherever you believe the "top" of that ledge to be. If it's not there or you imagined it, you then fall 1'. Increase the ledge to 3', or 5', or 10', same thing: you can perform a jump so that when you have completed the jump, you are standing in mid-air, and if there's no surface under you, you fall. The Jump rules allow you to do this, and so long as you can make the high jump DC, you can do this for any sufficiently tall "imaginary" ledge.

Put another way: Decide which square you want to jump to. Your target square does not have to be on the same horizontal plane as your starting square. Calculate the horizontal and vertical distance required, and compare the DCs. If the horizontal distance is higher, and there are no obstacles you need to clear, use that as your jump DC. If your vertical distance is higher, use that DC. If both DCs are fairly close to each other, use the higher one or split the difference and go with that.

Example: A druid wild shaped into a mountain lion must jump across a 10' pit trap and also clear 10' wall directly on the other size of the pit trap. Rather than a 40' long jump, the mountain lion can attempt a 10' vertical jump. Assuming a running start, the DC to clear the wall is 40 (same as it would be for a 40' long jump). The DC to clear the 10' horizontal distance is only 10, so I would assume that the DC 40 for the vertical would be more than adequate to also cover 10' of horizontal distance. (Well, technically the vertical distance should be 10 * sqrt(2) or 15' in "diagonal movement", so you could probably increase the DC to 56.4 or 60 or whatever, but that's not unheard of for a mountain lion or sufficiently optimized PC.)



Battle Jump doesn't preclude horizontal movement before dropping ─ but it does require dropping rather than leaping horizontally. You can certainly take a 5' step off a ledge and enter the air space above your opponent to gain the benefit of that feat. What you can't do is make the D&D version of a parabolic arc (in D&D: a triangular arc) through the air and then expect to somehow stop your horizontal leap above the opponent and simply drop thereafter.

Assume that you are standing 20' from a 10' deep pit trap. There is a medium-sized opponent at the bottom of the pit trap next to the wall where you can conveniently drop on him from above. You can perform any of the following actions to activate Battle Jump:

1) Normal move action to step off the edge of the pit trap and drop on top of my opponent.
2) Double-move to step off the edge.
3) You can even run off the edge.
4) 20' running start, jump 5' over the edge of the pit.
5) 10' running start, jump 11' over the edge of the pit.
6) Teleport/dim. door/shadow jaunt/etc. 25', into the empty space above the pit.

Battle Jump doesn't specify how you start the fall, it doesn't even care what actions you used to get there. Once you start falling, then it treats your drop as a charge. (Admittedly, it is one of the worst-written feats in 3.X.)

[GrumblyBear]

Wow, quite the can of worms...

What if I took Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt, which gives me 50' teleportation as a standard action. If I use the standard action to teleport to 5' above my opponent, will I be able to use Battle Jump as I free action fall?

Or does the use of a standard action maneuver preclude the use of the full-action "charge" supplied by Battle Jump?



For the record, my build would be something like Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Warblade 4/ Bloodclaw Master 2/ Warblade x
I was thinking about taking two weapon fighting, battle jump, and leap attack. But I'm not sure if leap attack and battle jump stack.
I suspect my DM won't allow it... :smallfrown:

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Wow, quite the can of worms...

What if I took Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt, which gives me 50' teleportation as a standard action. If I use the standard action to teleport to 5' above my opponent, will I be able to use Battle Jump as I free action fall?
definitely


Or does the use of a standard action maneuver preclude the use of the full-action "charge" supplied by Battle Jump?
It does not.

[Bloodgruve]

What if I took Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt, which gives me 50' teleportation as a standard action. If I use the standard action to teleport to 5' above my opponent, will I be able to use Battle Jump as I free action fall?

Or does the use of a standard action maneuver preclude the use of the full-action "charge" supplied by Battle Jump?

For the record, my build would be something like Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Warblade 4/ Bloodclaw Master 2/ Warblade x
I was thinking about taking two weapon fighting, battle jump, and leap attack. But I'm not sure if leap attack and battle jump stack.
I suspect my DM won't allow it... :smallfrown:



All that is required for Battle Jump is that you 'drop from 5' above the target' if this happens you can trigger the feat and initiate the charge. If pounce reads full attack at the end of a charge then it should apply. You generally want a 2h weapon with these feats for the damage multiplier.

Blood~

[Axinian]

To help with the OP, check out the Dragoon (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood:_A_Tale_of_38;_Guide_to_th e_3.5_Dragoon?pg=2) build if you want to get really crazy with battle jump.

[Averis Vol]

Wow, quite the can of worms...

What if I took Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt, which gives me 50' teleportation as a standard action. If I use the standard action to teleport to 5' above my opponent, will I be able to use Battle Jump as I free action fall?

Or does the use of a standard action maneuver preclude the use of the full-action "charge" supplied by Battle Jump?



For the record, my build would be something like Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Warblade 4/ Bloodclaw Master 2/ Warblade x
I was thinking about taking two weapon fighting, battle jump, and leap attack. But I'm not sure if leap attack and battle jump stack.
I suspect my DM won't allow it... :smallfrown:

I already regret mentioning leap attack.

[TuggyNE]

What if I took Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt, which gives me 50' teleportation as a standard action. If I use the standard action to teleport to 5' above my opponent, will I be able to use Battle Jump as I free action fall?

IIRC, (teleportation) effects can't leave you in empty space (with the possible exception of a flying creature), so I don't think this works.

[Darrin]

IIRC, (teleportation) effects can't leave you in empty space (with the possible exception of a flying creature), so I don't think this works.

Citation?

(The Shadow Jaunt maneuver was one of the cornerstones to Sinfire_Titan's 4500 lbs of stupid build (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19863510/4500_lbs._of_Stupid?pg=1).)

[ThiagoMartell]

IIRC, (teleportation) effects can't leave you in empty space (with the possible exception of a flying creature), so I don't think this works.

That's only for conjuration effects.

[kitcik]

I am playing a Battle Jumper right now.

I dipped Warblade for the Leaping Dragon stance and for Pouncing Charge. It's not as good as Pounce in that it has to be refreshed to be used again, but since Warblades refresh on a swift action I have found it acceptable.

The Up the Walls skill trick, mentioned above, is a good way to get above the opponent if you are unable to generate the big jump check, but of course requires walls.

I played a thri-kreen (non-psionic so only LA +1, bought off). They have racial +30 Jump and can execute quite a few attacks on a Pounce. Admittedly suboptimal, but quite fun.

By increasing your base move, you also increase your jump check. My base move is currently 70' and my Jump check is like +75 (don't have the sheet in front of me) at 14th level. With the LD stance, this allows me to Battle Jump some pretty sizeable creatures.

My DM has counteracted this by having some critical battles take places in places where it is difficult to battle jump (don't say I have a bad DM - he is great!! - I like challenges). In one instance, the battle took place on a gnomish flying ship where the balloon was only 10' above the deck. I had no battle jumps in the battle, until he had a dragon-riding dude fly by the ship - I surprised him by battle jumpig right off the ship onto the dragon (yes, it was hella falling damage but I one-shotted the dragon on the way down).

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

But you cannot combine battle jump with pouncing charge, since both require a specific action to be executed

[kitcik]

Well, this is where the whole Battle Jump thing gets interesting. Many RAW lawyers (but not all) agree that Battle Jump causes you to have a charge action whenever you drop on someone ("You can execute a charge by simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent.") - and so, could even have multiple Battle Jumps (and, with Pounce, multiple full attacks) in one round.

In any case, I agreed to forego any attempts at said cheese and the DM agreed the two can work together, so here we are.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Well, this is where the whole Battle Jump thing gets interesting. Many RAW lawyers (but not all) agree that Battle Jump causes you to have a charge action whenever you drop on someone ("You can execute a charge by simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent.") - and so, could even have multiple Battle Jumps (and, with Pounce, multiple full attacks) in one round.
This is definitely correct. But if you initiate Pouncing Charge you don't get the benfits of Battle Jump.
You would if Pouncing Charge said: "boost, you are treated as having pounce for the duration of the turn"
Instead it's a strike with a specific initiation action that can't be used with battle jump.

In any case, I agreed to forego any attempts at said cheese and the DM agreed the two can work together, so here we are.
Oh well, ok then.

[GrumblyBear]

Additional question: If I do end up TWF'ing with pounce, will Battle Jump give me x2 on the entire full-attack sequence? Or just the first melee from the MH weapon?

[kitcik]

By RAW it appears that it is the whole array. Based on your DM, YMMV.

[SpartanKiller13]

To solve the issue of "dropping" after using a horizontal leap to qualify for Leap Attack, why not use an Immovable Rod?
Sure, it's a move action to push the button (really? lol, I can push a button really fast) but that's fairly easily circumvented through the use of a familiar, animated item, Bigby's Thrusting Hand, or Evard's Tentacles of Forced Extrusion - whatever you want and you can get past your DM.
Just:
1) Jump forward 20' or 40', depending on interpretation. Make sure that they're 10' or 20' away from you. This qualifies you for Leap Attack.
2) Activate Immovable Rod when above where they are/next to where they are.
3) Drop on them. This qualifies you for Battle Jump.
4) Profit :belkar:

Pounce helps greatly, as do 2HW, as does Shock Trooper, and Instant tele effects allowing you to tele upwards to get another Battle Jump charge.
Valorous Weapon is a Must, and if you can find something that qualifies you as "mounted" without impeding your jumping, grab Spirited Charge while you're at it, and use a Lance.

Anything wrong with this? I'm assuming there are errors, but I will try to fix any problems mentioned.