Sand Shaper Questions

[VGLordR2]

Hey, guys. I was flipping through my copy of Sandstorm today, and I decided that Sand Shapers are absolutely awesome. However, I had a few questions that you guys can help me with.

1) Are there any ways to get into Sand Shaper before sixth level? The main restraining prerequisite is Arcane Caster Level Fifth. Are there any ways to boost that caster level?

2) In my opinion, the coolest ability that the SS gets is the Shape Sand ability. However, it seems that the duration on things that you shape is ridiculously low proportionate to the amount of time that you spend shaping them. For example, shaping one of the animals can take about 25 minutes, but they only last for a little more than a minute. That's ridiculous. It seems that your creations do not last long enough. Do you think that the durations should be increased?

3) Again, regarding Shape Sand. Do you have to actually be in contact with the sand to shape it? Can you shape it from a distance? I can't figure it out. If the sand can only be shaped when you are in contact with it, is it fair to allow shaping within a certain range (say thirty feet)?

4) What are your overall impressions of this class? Do you think that it is too powerful? Too weak? Are there any tips for races and classes to use in conjunction with this class?

Thanks for the help. :smallsmile:

[Balmas]

1) I believe there exists some arcane chicanery to increase caster level, but I'm not familiar enough to spout it out. Either way, your DM would probably veto anything blatant. Either way, it's probably not worth it unless your build requires Sand Shaper and a certain number of levels in another class.

2) In my opinion, Shape Sand is one of the weaker class features. It allows you, in essence, to have most any basic item from the PHB. Probably the greatest strength lies in its versatility: if you have enough sand, you can make whatever you need, like a bridge or a ladder.

Like you said, the duration is short compared to the time invested. However, most likely you're just using Shape Sand to combat minor obstacles, like plugging arrow traps or crossing pits. You're a full caster anyway; not like you're starved for options.

3) The book itself doesn't clarify other way. I'd say it's fair to assume some kind of limited range, especially since the book does state that the items so created persist regardless of range after creation.

4) Personally, I don't like any class that gives up caster levels. It's a solid class, full of flavor and options. In my opinion, it pairs best with sorcerer--that's a handy forty or so spells added to your spells known list, and kind of plays into the whole wild-mage image.

[Tvtyrant]

Personally I think Sand Shaper works best for the "cast from their spell list" classes like Warmage and Beguiler. It gives them added options, which is something they need.

[kharmakazy]

Don't forget to pick up a bottle of endless sand. It's almost a requirement.

[NiteCyper]

1) Are there any ways to get into Sand Shaper before sixth level? The main restraining prerequisite is Arcane Caster Level Fifth. Are there any ways to boost that caster level?
1) Yes, looking at the prerequisites here, there are definitely "any ways to get into Sand Shaper before sixth level". This prestige class is conducive to early entry; All of the other prerequisites can be fulfilled at first level. Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6065.0) are "any ways to boost that caster level", particularly from Reply #5 onwards. Eventually, the prerequisites will fulfill themselves and feat options taken to have met them can be retrained.


2) In my opinion, the coolest ability that the SS gets is the Shape Sand ability. However, it seems that the duration on things that you shape is ridiculously low proportionate to the amount of time that you spend shaping them. For example, shaping one of the animals can take about 25 minutes, but they only last for a little more than a minute. That's ridiculous. It seems that your creations do not last long enough. Do you think that the durations should be increased?
2) Basically, I don't know. Due to the extant belief that the prestige class is already top-tier (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1573.0), no, I don't "think that the durations should be increased". But, that is a question for someone more familiar with the class than I am. Top-tier and flawed class features are not mutually exclusive.


3) Again, regarding Shape Sand. Do you have to actually be in contact with the sand to shape it? Can you shape it from a distance? I can't figure it out. If the sand can only be shaped when you are in contact with it, is it fair to allow shaping within a certain range (say thirty feet)?

3) The book itself doesn't clarify other way. I'd say it's fair to assume some kind of limited range.

3) Scouring the text, I see no requirement to touch to sand shape. Thus barring RAW and thus bearing resemblance, I would treat it the same way as the Craft (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm) skill. I realize the potential fallacy of if the Craft (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm) rules have no requirement to touch either.

In extreme circumstances (of distance and thus range), I would rule that the ability to sand shape depends on perception of the sand material. I use the term perception as opposed to visibility to be able to draw a comparison to disjointed combat.

An archer who takes note of the coordinates of their target, closes their eyes or otherwise loses line of sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#ray), then lifts their ranged weapon to take aim and fire, may still hit their target. In the hypothetical archer's mind, they may not have true vision, but just as a blind person, they can still coordinate visuospatially. They still have a line of effect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#lineofEffect).


4) What are your overall impressions of this class? Do you think that it is too powerful? Too weak? Are there any tips for races and classes to use in conjunction with this class?
4) The Tier System for PrCs (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1573.0) lists it as +1 (from 0) (Sorc entry) and -1 (Wiz Entry). The prerequisites can be met early. The lack of spellcasting progression in the first level deters dipping into it and encourages long-term investment. I think that the Sand Shaper prestige class is good and balanced. I recommend that you only use this class by entering it via a class that needs to "gain knowledge of additional spells", because the majority of its power seems to arise from Desert Insight which is more useful to such a class, and, as the tiers put it, "Bad to Awful" otherwise.

Unfortunately, Google shows no handbook for the PrC.

[Psyren]

Personally I think Sand Shaper works best for the "cast from their spell list" classes like Warmage and Beguiler. It gives them added options, which is something they need.

Unlike other such classes though (e.g. Exalted Arcanist), Sandshaper explicitly adds its spells to your spells known even if you must normally choose them on level-up. So it's just as valid for Sorcerers as it is for the full-list spontaneous casters.

[Answerer]

Personally I think Sand Shaper works best for the "cast from their spell list" classes like Warmage and Beguiler. It gives them added options, which is something they need.
Sand Shaper adds those spells as spells known, not merely to the spell list. As a result, every caster gains all forty-three (43) of those spells as spells known as soon as they take the first level in the class.

Welcome, to one of the few ways to make a lost spellcaster level worth it. For spontaneous casters, anyway. For a Wizard, who could cast most of those spells just by spending some money, it's probably not worth it. For a Sorcerer, who just doubled his spells known (even if a lot of them aren't particularly good, some definitely are), though? Amazing.

[dantiesilva]

For race I would go Illumani and take the word of power or something like that feat to increase my caster level to +3 or plus 4 I believe as long as you take the right sigils. Add in practiced spellcaster. It defiantly has early entry ability, hard to do though because you focus on that to get in.

[Answerer]

I'm reasonably sure that Improved Sigil (Krau) works like Practiced Spellcaster: it's capped at your HD. Something like that.

[Jeff the Green]

I'm reasonably sure that Improved Sigil (Krau) works like Practiced Spellcaster: it's capped at your HD. Something like that.

You don't need the feat, just the Krau sigil, but yes, it's capped at your HD.