Coins and money - magic items

[Ryulin18]

My party has the problem of finding vast amounts of copper and such. Like an orc camp will have 2 platinum and 32,000 copper peices.

As such, my wizards wants to make a satchel where any money put in will be converted up to it's maximum point. 100 copper placed in will produce 10 silver and then 1 gold.

What spells and what feats would I need to create such a wonder?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm not sure there is a raw way to handle that. I'm not really comfortable with the economic reprecussions of changing one metal into another, but I'd let him craft a magic bag that turned coins into trade bars. Cost to create 50gp, 2xp, CL 2, & fabricate. market price 100gp. Faint transmutation.

Put 50 coins in; get a 1lb trade bar out. Then you just need magical storage.

[Khedrac]

I can actually see a guild of moneychangers coming up with an item like this - it would probably actually work by teleporting the coins to and from their vaults and it would definitely charge commission.

Caveats to watch out for:

- The item needs to ignore what I would call fake coins, e.g. gold over lead. Forgery is less of a problem as the metal weight should be what matters.

- Differing purities of metal might have interesting effects.

- Especially valuable coins (i.e. through rarity value not base metal value) would be changed at base metal rate - rather a waste.

If the party want to make the item themselves the "trade bar" route is the way to go. Anything else and they are minting their own coinage - something rulers traditionally take a very dim view of. If the ruler has licensed minting rights out, whoever has them will be even more upset!

If they are not minting their own coins, but "swapping" them with someone else's then it's theft. Bad enough to annoy the local money-changers by swapping the gold in their vaults for copper, but how is the local Gold Dragon going to react when it finds part of its hoard is now copper not gold (and quite possibly still carries the odour of a rival)?

[Ashtagon]

The problem of transporting vast quantities of copper from the dungeon is specifically lamp-shaded as a challenge to be overcome in the 1e DMG. This is why mules were so popular back then (transportation, plus they are good for setting off traps).

Back in our day, we had to earn our xp...

:smallbiggrin:

[CreganTur]

Maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but just stop giving them copper coins?

[umbergod]

Maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but just stop giving them copper coins?

sums it up perfect. if you're rolling random, just convert a big chunk of copper up into silver and gold, so its a mix, but not so much that they need pack animals just to carry it all back to town

[Downysole]

This item should definitely cost the wielder something each time it transmutes metals from copper to silver or silver to gold, etc.

Whether it be a spell or spell slot use, a coinage retention rate, or something along those lines, the upgrade from copper to plat should not be free. If your DM is placing all those copper, he's doing it for a reason and would not appreciate you trying to get around it without any cost. Mules Rule.

And changing 50 coins to a 1 lb trade bar is completely useless to the problem at hand, since 50 coins weigh 1 lb and a trade bar is inherently worth less than coinage since it would have to be re-minted to be spent.

I think the bigger question here is "What can I do with 32,000 coppers that I can't do with 32 plat?" Scrooge McDuck, anyone? Or better yet, treasure death trap in your keep! You could have the coppers room with a floor that falls away if intruders manage to set off a trap.

[CreganTur]

I also have played in groups that are mostly lax about things like weight restrictions because of coinage or even "assigned" currency values. If our DM said 32,000 copper pieces, we'd know to just write down 320gp.

[Kelb_Panthera]

This item should definitely cost the wielder something each time it transmutes metals from copper to silver or silver to gold, etc.

Whether it be a spell or spell slot use, a coinage retention rate, or something along those lines, the upgrade from copper to plat should not be free. If your DM is placing all those copper, he's doing it for a reason and would not appreciate you trying to get around it without any cost. Mules Rule.

And changing 50 coins to a 1 lb trade bar is completely useless to the problem at hand, since 50 coins weigh 1 lb and a trade bar is inherently worth less than coinage since it would have to be re-minted to be spent.

I think the bigger question here is "What can I do with 32,000 coppers that I can't do with 32 plat?" Scrooge McDuck, anyone? Or better yet, treasure death trap in your keep! You could have the coppers room with a floor that falls away if intruders manage to set off a trap.

I disagree. A DM might be dropping (literal) tons of copper out of some misguided sense of verisimilitude. As to your claim of trade-bars being less valuable, I'd agree in a real-world economy, but D&D calls this out as an exception. A 1lb gold trade-bar is worth exactly 50gp, same with platinum, silver, and copper.The big issue here is weight. 32000cp makes 640lbs of copper, whether its jingly or in bars. This issue is why magical storage, or a couple pack animals, are needed.

sums it up perfect. if you're rolling random, just convert a big chunk of copper up into silver and gold, so its a mix, but not so much that they need pack animals just to carry it all back to town

I get the impression that the Op isn't the DM in this situation.

I do like the idea of a large money-changers' guild designing a portable, teleportation based, exchanger. Sold to adventurers for 100gp a pop and charging an exchange rate on use, such a device would be an economic goldmine. No pun intended.

[Downysole]

I disagree. A DM might be dropping (literal) tons of copper out of some misguided sense of verisimilitude. As to your claim of trade-bars being less valuable, I'd agree in a real-world economy, but D&D calls this out as an exception. A 1lb gold trade-bar is worth exactly 50gp, same with platinum, silver, and copper.The big issue here is weight. 32000cp makes 640lbs of copper, whether its jingly or in bars. This issue is why magical storage, or a couple pack animals, are needed.

I imagine that the same DM who would throw down a "realistic" sum of coppers instead of other denominations would be the type to similarly require appropriate hauling capacity. Therefore, he would want some kind of exchange rate through this item we're cooking up.

[CTrees]

My favorite solution, after mules, is to find some way to turn it into a cohesive clump (there are several), then Animate Object. Penny golem, march to the nearest moneychanger with us!

[Kelb_Panthera]

My favorite solution, after mules, is to find some way to turn it into a cohesive clump (there are several), then Animate Object. Penny golem, march to the nearest moneychanger with us!

so.... fireball+ animate objects? However you do it, that's funny.

[Downysole]

My favorite solution, after mules, is to find some way to turn it into a cohesive clump (there are several), then Animate Object. Penny golem, march to the nearest moneychanger with us!

I WILL find a way to get this into my next game.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I imagine that the same DM who would throw down a "realistic" sum of coppers instead of other denominations would be the type to similarly require appropriate hauling capacity. Therefore, he would want some kind of exchange rate through this item we're cooking up.

While I'd never drop that much copper in my players' laps if they had no way to carry it, I am the kind of "draconian bastard" dm that enforces encumbrance rules (multiclass xp penalties too,) and I wouldn't force an exchange rate on a transmutation based item. I like to try to strike a balance between verisimilitude and keeping things moving.