Mage Armor and Shield, Super Simple Stuff

[Stag]

Simple question, do Mage armor and shield conflict? they do basically the same thing, both are deflection based, but do they stack?

[Khedrac]

The answer is "Yes - they stack".
Mage Armor gives an Armor bonus - so it does not stack with armor worn (but it stacks with a shield used).
Shield gives a Shield bonus - so while it does not stack with shields used, it does stack with armor and mage armor.

[hoverfrog]

If you can combine them with natural armour bonuses then you'll be very difficult to hit indeed.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you can combine them with natural armour bonuses then you'll be very difficult to hit indeed.

not really. By late game, the system expects you to have at least an armor bonus, a natural armor bonus, and a deflection bonus; regardless of class. Middle ground characters (i.e. buff-bot clerics, rogues, bards & the like) will need at least one more type, such as dex or shield; and front-liners might end up with all of the above. They all stack as long as they're bonuses of different types.

They're rarer than the above, but you may also see: dodge bonuses, which actually do stack with other dodge bonuses, circumstance bonuses, sacred/profane bonuses, insight bonuses, luck bonuses, or perhaps even others.

Those are roughly in order of ascending rarity, btw.

[Stag]

my level 5 wizard metal elemental school specialist has 27 ac with those stacking :)

[hoverfrog]

Given that they are both low level spells I was thinking of good AC for low level but point taken.

[urkthegurk]

not really. By late game, the system expects you to have at least an armor bonus, a natural armor bonus, and a deflection bonus; regardless of class. Middle ground characters (i.e. buff-bot clerics, rogues, bards & the like) will need at least one more type, such as dex or shield; and front-liners might end up with all of the above. They all stack as long as they're bonuses of different types.

They're rarer than the above, but you may also see: dodge bonuses, which actually do stack with other dodge bonuses, circumstance bonuses, sacred/profane bonuses, insight bonuses, luck bonuses, or perhaps even others.

Those are roughly in order of ascending rarity, btw.

Yes, but both these spells are available at level one, which isn't exactly 'late in the game'

[sparkyinbozo]

For RP reasons, it's easy to see why they stack. Shield creates an actual shield of force that deflects stuff away, whereas mage armor is kind of like a Borg force field that forms around your body.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Yes, but both these spells are available at level one, which isn't exactly 'late in the game'

And? The system is setup such that a characters ac should be equal to no less than 13 + character level. Mage armor isn't even an all day buff until around level 8. Shield never becomes all day. At low levels, a total +8 to ac is nice, but burning two spell slots, which are still a limited resource at that point, and possibly two standard actions keeps it from being even remotely over-powered.

[ericgrau]

A 3rd level wizard can get mage armor, shield and alter self for an AC that is a little higher than the party melee... while making himself far less useful as a party member from all the spell slots + 1 round it took. Basically it's a way to brag to the party fighter and so piss off the party without really contributing much. At higher levels he can do it and still be useful too, but by then that amount of AC is obsolete and you need more.

I prefer to have things like shield on scrolls. That way if I get 5 buff rounds and I've already cast all the better buffs, hey, I can shield too. That's once in a blue moon so I only need a 25 gp scroll or two, which is better than blowing a spell slot on the 99% of days that I don't need it.

Hour/level buffs get prepared and cast in the morning, but they never go in my highest level spell slots; I wait until higher levels. My highest slots are reserved for decent offensive spells rather than see-first-paragraph.

[Downysole]

As with all spells, remember the fine print. Shield also absorbs that pesky magic missile spell. Not game-breaking, but at level 1, it could be the difference between getting knocked out with an opposing wiz1's spell, or having his be wasted and still having 4 Shield AC.