Swashbuckler "feel" to a campaign

[Andorax]

What alternate rules, variants, restrictions, or other concepts have you introduced if you want a particular campaign (say...the Savage Tide adventure path I'm contemplating starting up soon) have a particularly swashbuckler-like feel to it?

There's articles on Swashbuckling campaigns in Dragon 273 and 301 that help define the "feel" of such a setting, and how it would play out. I've gone through these, and have some mechanical modifications I'm considering as a result, but before going into my own laundry list of pre-planned modifications, I'd like to know if you have any thoughts on the subject.

[gallagher]

i dont have any of the old dragon mags, so i am not sure what they include. Could you describe certain types of things they suggest to go off of? Other than that, I suggest that you have everyone talk like a pirate IC

[GenghisDon]

Toss the (primary) spellcaster classes for PC's.

use PF style skill class bonus (+3), ranks (1/L, no Lx4 crap), & cross-class skills (no penalty, just no +3 bonus)

armor as DR (but probably not how the UA handles it, or even d20 conan, but a die roll plus modifier; slows the game very slightly, but much more realistic)

defense instead of AC (level based). Again, NOT how UA handled it, but more like d20 modern (or Conan d20). I suggest good defense (goes with good BAB) be +3/4 progression, average defense (goes with av BAB) be +1/2 L progression & poor defense (goes with poor BAB) be +1/3 L.

Thus a L6 barbarian, fighter, ranger, paladin, swashbuckler, ect, has a base defense (replaces AC) of 14, a L6 cleric, druid, rogue, bard or scout, ect, has base defense 13 & a L6 wizard, sorceror, ect, has base defense of 12

no prestige classes that don't fit the campaign style/mood. duelist is in, say, but bear warrior is out.

be more generous with natural healing, or rather, allow heal skill & feats that aid recovery (such as faster healing) to be more useful/better. Short term care might restore 1 HP per point the heal check exceeds 15 (unless at - HP). Perhaps add a feat or 2 based of heal skill (churgery?, successful check restores HP to a stable character at 0 to neg 9 HP, requires an hour+)

consider folding improved 2W combat, greater 2 weapon combat, ect, into the 2W combat feat. IE: additional ( full ) attacks from high BAB are a given. remove the req's for the removed feats from other 2w style feats. Perhaps just keep the high dex req's to gain the extra attacks. Let 2W combat rangers pick from the whole 2w pool at L6 & 11 (2w def, improved 2w defense, oversize 2w, 2w pounce, dual strike, 2w rend, ect, if the other req's are met).

change power attack (I always do this). The bonus is modified by weapon (or natural weapon) the same as a STR mod is. Thus a 2h weapon gets 1.5 the PA mod, an off hand one .5; you need to tweak all the feats that adjust off PA, like leap attack, combat brute, shock trooper, ect.

place a bit more magic loot that is useful than usual. It's A-OK if it's used by an enemy/monster as "compensation".

allow "trading in" armor proficiencies for other (L1) feats that the character has the pre-req's for. EX: a newly created fighter (with int 13+) could loose med & heavy armor & gain combat expertise & improved disarm instead.

consider removing the weapon finesse feat. Instead ANY & EVERY one/thing can use their dex modifier to hit with a light weapon (plus rapier, ect). Essentially, it's weapon finesse for free, for everyone. Classes & critters with W finesse replace it with another feat (choice). When it was a bonus feat (like for a swashbuckler or some monsters), the DM should pick a consistant replacement, weapon focus (choice) being a good candidate.

[Andorax]

GenghisDon, that sounds like it's along the lines of what I was looking at. Right now, I'm looking at minor variations on the UA's Defense and Armor Conversion rules...I'd be interested to know why you're set against that approach.

I'm leery of an outright ban on full casters, largely because of the campaign difficulties it might pose (Savage Tide starts out relatively mundane, but would be awfully brutal to a casterless party on the back half).



gallagher, I couldn't really simply sum up the articles...mechanics aside, the fluff content was substantial, with things like "assume the environment is on your side", "sometimes the most impressive approach is better than the most tactical" and such. I mentioned them mainly as a point of reference to any who might have access.

[GenghisDon]

sure...& I wish I could play! (I DM 99% of the time:smallmad:)

first, let me add a couple more thoughts...

action points are VERY much a good idea for swashbuckling types. It gives them more of a push to attempt "crazy" actions, which are part of the genre...swinging on chandeliers, ropes, jumping off buildings onto moving horses, fighting while standing on a horse or yard arm, you know the stuff!

It also helps make up for lesser magical bennies/aid

More tweaks for classes..."invent" the AVERAGE saving throw modifier. It is +1/2 level. Good is +1/2 level +2, poor saves are +1/3. Give swashbuckler average reflex saves (or switch fort to av & reflex to good). Barbarians & Fighters get average reflex saves. Heck, fighters might get average will saves too! Knights get average fort saves & maybe reflex saves. REDUCE clerics & druids to average fort & will, poor reflex. It's probably not a bad idea for ALL games; I often wonder why the hell the WOTC folks didn't see the value in such a mechanic, as it mirrors the 3 BAB progressions & places saves in the area of 50/50 more or less. I'd call it the sweet spot myself.

Choosing a more narrow tech level for the game is probably a good plan too. Swashbucklers are obviously suited for later periods than D&D usually goes to, although an ancient world, middle eastern or asian game all would work well too. This isn't to say EVERYONE needs be bound to certain weapons/armor/gear, but a tighter base than D&D default is a good thing IMHO (and typically is all that gets used anyway...everyone just seels off the "junk" anyway). It also contrasts "foreign" or "alien" cultures all the more.

If Elizabethan era+ is used, D20 Past gun sections will be quite useful, although I'd give all the firearms critical 20/x3, something d20 modern avoids due it's low massive damage threshold.

Balance, climb, jump, tumble, bluff...these skills need payoff, so perhaps tweak feats that reward them to be a little bit better, &/or make some new ones to boot. EX: Improved Feint might also add +2 to bluff checks to feint in combat, add Feinting master: allows character to take 10 on bluff checks to feint in combat & to feint as a free action once per round. Acrobatic strike certainly adds the +6 to hit bonus & not the +4 (was this ever errata-ed BTW?). Tumbling Feint could be changed to instead grant a free feint as part of the tumble/move action.

Buccaneers, Pirates (and Marines too I guess) probably need some good representation. If the prestige classes like dread pirate, scarlet corsair or legendary captain are good enough for ya, ok. If not, a 20 L "pirate" class could be made pretty easily.

As to the UA take on class/level defense and armor as DR...well, basing the defense off armor proficiency slots simply makes no sense. If armor is going to soak damage, then it should not, still, in backhanded fashion, make one harder to hit. Skill in combat (adjusted by attributes, feats & magic) seems to me the best default method. One certainly could tweak a bit, however, with monsters & classes alike.

static DR for armor is also not particularily convincing...a mail shirt will take of X damage (2? 4?) on every hit? really? It only covers the body, not the arms, legs, hips & head (or only partial head protection with a {non great or non visored} helm). Every blow hits the torso just because?

static DR also favours certain fighting styles while punishing others, and the 2hander power attack types shouldn't automatically be king in this setting (although in the era of/up against full plate they probably should be).

the biggest problem will be converting NATURAL armor into DR...3/4 of the critters in the game have massively over inflated natural AC mods.

Magical armor/enhancement & nat armor enhancements will add +1 DR per plus...so they need to cost more, probably double, unless applied to partial armor types like a mail shirt, breatplate, back & breast, ect, where their bonus won't apply at all if the DR roll comes up 0.

armor is handled quite poorly in every respect in d20 D&D, misnamed, over or under valued, ect. A re-work of it won't take long, especially if a narrower tech level is used for the campaign.

I've probably described a much too ambitious project to play a generic D&D scenario with...you would no doubt have quite some work adjusting stats & encounters for a module/campaign...especially as they are DESIGNED to need spellchuckers &/or hose certain archetypes sometimes. Not to discourage you, but if you DO alter/tweak the game this much, you are going to be better off just making your own adventures, or just stealing ideas from BTB adventures. If you want or need less work, just spinkle a few of the minor tweaks into the game as HR, and play the adventutre mostly as is.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I ran a sea-based campaign for a year and a half; we played at least once a week.

I made absolutely no changes to the rules.

I did make an awesome setting from scratch, and THAT was what gave it the right feel. It was the setting and the story, not the mechanical changes. Focus on that, and your campaign will have the right feel to it.

[supermonkeyjoe]

I'm intending to run a similar campaign in the future with a lot of the changes GenghisDon proposed, I'm also importing the pathfinder system of Combat Maneuvers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Combat-Maneuvers), especially the Dirty Trick ability to add in the feel of rough and dirty fighting.

[Tyndmyr]

What alternate rules, variants, restrictions, or other concepts have you introduced if you want a particular campaign (say...the Savage Tide adventure path I'm contemplating starting up soon) have a particularly swashbuckler-like feel to it?

There's articles on Swashbuckling campaigns in Dragon 273 and 301 that help define the "feel" of such a setting, and how it would play out. I've gone through these, and have some mechanical modifications I'm considering as a result, but before going into my own laundry list of pre-planned modifications, I'd like to know if you have any thoughts on the subject.

Honestly, I just ditch D&D entirely, and go with 7th Sea. It does the job better than any ruleset I've ever found.

[Quietus]

To me the biggest thing is simply to make a setting that encourages Swashbuckler-y play, then use description in-game that makes it come to life. Encourage the use of battlefield features (swinging chandeliers, ropes on ships, etc) for creative purposes, describe actions as being over the top. If you're looking at making this seafaring, then going with one of the unarmored variants isn't a bad idea, and I'd start the game at level 3 just so that everyone who wants it has the opportunity to take Weapon Finesse. Either that, or waive the +1 BAB requirement, or just give it to everyone for free.

Swashbuckling is really, to me, just taking D&D actions and cranking them to 11 on the Awesome scale. Don't be afraid to go over the top. Your players will (most likely) love you for it.

[Telonius]

A couple different things come to mind when I hear "swashbuckler." One is the standard pirate-y goodness. Another is less common: something like the Three Musketeers, Ruritanian romances, and Errol Flynn wrapped up in a single package of awesomeness.

For the first, Stormwrack and Complete Scoundrel are great places to start. For the second, Eberron can be a great setting for it.

For either one, you're going to have a lot more work cut out for you as a DM, to give it the right feel. First and foremost, I'd suggest having a lot - a lot - of intelligent, humanoid-ish enemies. Second, design your encounters carefully to support the style of play. If you want people to be swinging off chandeliers, make sure there's a chandelier handy. 6x6 empty rooms just aren't going to do it. We're talking stairways, attacking from high ground, slippery surfaces, all the 3-D combat you could possibly ask for.

Make sure that your players are aware of this. Let them know that some of the usual tactics (leap attack/shock trooper etc) might not work as well as they're used to, since there will be a lot fewer charging lanes. On the other hand, some tactical feats might gain in power, due to the relative lack of larger enemies and terrain issues (Improved Trip, Disarm, Bull Rush, etc).

Action Points should definitely be part of the campaign.

Maybe limit things to Tier-3 classes.

Dashing Swordsman (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html) should be an option for all melee characters. :smallbiggrin:

[Andorax]

Ok, here's the basics of what I've hashed out (and GenghisDon, I definately feel your pain...this is after a lengthy plea to hand over the DM's chair for a while. I'm just coming off of running Rise of the Runelords). Please note that I'm not trying to "fix" D&D, 3.5, etc. in this list of variations...just give mechanically sound motivations for getting "into" the setting and concept.


Savage Tide campaign, as described in the Dungeon magazines 139-150 and associated supporting Dragon magazine articles.

Eberron setting (Placing Sasserine just off of the northern part of the Q'bara peninsula). The role of the Scarlet Brotherhood will be played by Lhazarite princes.


Renaissance Firearms from the DMG are in effect.

Improvised weapons suffer no non-proficiency penalty if they can be reasonably described in terms of a proficient weapon (that fireplace poker is a lot like a rapier).


Action points are most definately in use, and may be instantly refunded by the DM in instances when they are used:
1) Offensively (not for a save or a parry roll)
2) With flair (part of a disarm attempt, not a regular attack roll)
3) Successfully (no refunds for failure).


UA rules for Defense Bonuses and Damage Conversion (not Armor as DR though). If you're not familar with it, the Damage Conversion rule allows you to turn your armor bonus' worth of lethal damage into nonlethal damage. You go down just as quickly, but nowhere near as often to deadly effect. I'm toying with variations to deal with natural armor and regeneration.


I'm using some minor measure of skill combination. Not full-on Pathfinder or 4E, but I am rolling some skills together so that everyone has at least some swashbucklery potential.

Athletics (climb, swim)
Acrobatics (balance, jump, tumble)
Perception (listen, search, spot)
Persuasion (bluff, diplomacy, intimidate)

Everyone has Persuasion and Sense Motive as class skills, regardless. Anyone with any portion of the other three combo-skills gets the combo skill as a class skill.

Rogues are being cut back to 6+I, which is the cap on any other class/PrC.


I generally like the parry rules from Dragon 301, but think there's way too many feats involved (a fighter could spend half his career getting good at it). So I'm giving the baseline Parry feat away for free, rolling Improved Parry into Combat Reflexes, rolling Steel Skin into Improved Unarmed Strike, rolling the Armored Fencer feats into their respective armor proficiencies, and allowing parry feats to count as bonus fighter and warblade feats.


In keeping with some of the swashbuckling campaign options as set forth in Dragon 273 (written for 2E, mind), I'm allowing these uses of the Persuasion skill:

Stirring Oration: A Persuasion check (vs Sense Motive + HD on the mob's average...much like a feint) will move a Friendly group into a suggested course of action.

Stratetic Flirting: Use a Persuasion check as if it were a bardic Fascinate...but restricted to a single target (and by gender and preference).


I'm still struggling with the caster question. All of this makes a fighter a swashbucking fighter and a rogue a swashbuckling rogue, but a wizard is still a wizard (that might parry once in a while if desperate).

I'm considering a player-wide (not setting-wide) ban on primary casting classes, but I don't know if that's going to put them too far behind the curve in power and capabilites to deal with the Savage Tide storyline, or if it would take a major root canal to bring it back together.

I'm not sure why, but somehow it seems like psionics-as-magic is a bit more fitting to the theme and setting, and considering allowing psionic full-cast classes (maybe even tweak things a bit to allow for a party healer role to be fulfilled).


Also, a minor question for GenghisDon...I thought the "Grace" ability that Swashbucklers received WAS their attempt at implementing an "average" save.

[Karoht]

Loot. Shineys. Gems. Gold. Pestuzas.

Party finds an entire cave, lined wall to wall with pirate booty, stored there for years and years. The stash represents a decade or two of crime on the high seas.
Party just shoves it into the bag of holding and walks out.
To the party, it's just faceless and meaningless golden objects. Also, it gets jotted down on a character sheet, as a number to infer a certain amount of currency.

Bah, I say.


First off, I rather liked the first Pirates of the Carribean, given that it dealt with a cursed treasure. Great idea. Wish more DM's would do this. And not the kind that Remove Curse just automatically lifts either. Make this party work for their salvation.

Secondly, no one ever thinks that the golden statue that is covered in diamonds and rubies and sapphires, might perhaps be famous? Or belong to someone wealthy? Maybe someone still living? Maybe someone influential enough to finance a few ships, the kind that doesn't take kindly to someone stealing his great aunt matilda's statue, which happens to contain her ashes.


Loot of any kind, but especially the shiney kind, needs to come with a price. Sometimes that price is blood. Sometimes that price is dignity or an apology. Sometimes that price is someone swearing a blood oath to hunt you and dog you for the rest of your days.

Sure, the party earned it. Wealth by Level, yadda yadda, but that doesn't mean it rightfully belongs to them. Even if they are busting up other pirates to get the loot, it belonged to someone else first. Make them be wary of this fact, that really helps the 'feel' of Swashbuckling, is that even a job done well might have unforseen consequences. Duels may be fought for just reasons, perhaps not.


Now granted, you want to be fair with the party. Really obvious stuff that sounds like a one of a kind object should carry some importance. Maybe it's just a lost object, that someone would be perfectly happy to pay a reward for. But if the party fences it for more money, well, now that person isn't so happy, and pays for some hired goons to hunt them down. Or maybe it is a valuable object, and after fencing it the party is just a bit paranoid, maybe looking over their shoulder...

Be creative. The best part about being a Pirate is the treasure. Make it something the party will treasure.

[GenghisDon]

Good thoughts Karoht

I hope you guys have fun, Andorax. I'm not especially familiar with the adventure (though I've glanced at it), but I suggest you give it a good going over to judge if it is workable without casters. My gut guess is NO, if simply for the fact it was designed to have them. Default D&D almost always assumes a warrior, skill monkey, arcane caster & divine caster for "optimal" success.

As to having some swashbuckler caster types, well, railroading the casters a little can help. Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, ect, could work, or simply LA adjusted gestalts (limited choices perhaps).

Or go with your psionic vibe...you CAN completely remove the other casters then, with very little worry.

If "Grace" truly was the "fix", it fails terribly. I guess the same was intended for the Scout's battle fortitude, although it also helps initiative. Maybe grace could also add the bonus to chr-based skill checks? It's a small thing regardless.

[Karoht]

Treasure Maps

X marks the spot right? So some survival/track checks and a few random encounters later, you wind up at the cave of untold evil/riches?

No.


Cartography back then wasn't all that and a bag of chips. If the party has a treasure map, the path should be windy, should be long, and should be difficult to follow.
Because that is how any self-respecting pirate would stash their goods. Or so the legends tell us.

Maps should have landmarks, so does the terrain. The landmarks are your signs that you are *maybe* going the right way.
Maybe it's the right way...
into the traps that magentabeard set up for the unwary.
Maybe it's the right way...
to ensure that you walk in circles for a while.
Maybe it's the right way...
into a canyon that makes howling noises designed to scare off those who believe the legend that magentabeard's treasure is cursed
Maybe it's the right way...
right into the camp of a bunch of tribal people, who don't take kindly to outsiders.

Bottom line, the party should try and decide which way to go. And if they decide wrong because the map is slightly misleading, well, that is exactly what old magentabeard had in mind.

And remember, Pirates aren't wizards. But they are still the crafty cunning coniving sort. Traps should be appropriate. No magical traps should really be at play here. Mostly 1 time use traps, simple snares in dangerous places (hidden on rocky outcropings for example), tripwires hooked up to blow the canyon and seal your party in for an easy ambush, or trigger a landslide and batter your party. Try to use the terrain more, less fancy complicated machinery. The film Predator has the kind of traps you want.
Guns. Guns should most definitely be part of the trap lineup. Heck, crossbows were still used back then, add them in.
Lantern oil and old booze. Fantastic for traps. Use lots of it. Never out in the forest though. Definitely in the cave/tomb/abandoned temple that the pirates were using as a stash.
Poison Darts and poison spraying devices? Expensive and complicated. Something that causes an easily breakable flask containing poison/acid? A bit easier to pull off for a pirate.


Encounters inside the caves? Local tribes people with some basic magics. More trying to frighten off the party with illusions of ghosts and parlor tricks, less fireballs. A few creepy witchdoctors (with spells cribbed from the Witch spell list from pathfinder), casting misfortune and using summon monster/summon natures ally? Maybe the odd set of undead inside? Maybe another pirate gang waiting to ambush the party and take the treasure for themselves, maybe they were marooned, maybe they just got there first. Maybe even the ghost of Magentabeard himself?

Good Luck

[Gavinfoxx]

One thing you can do is say, "I am overtly giving out bonuses when you do crazy swashbuckling stunts and other actions that are genre appropriate. Bonuses to Jump, Tumble, Climb, Reflex Saves, To Hit, Damage, Bonus Attacks, Pounce, Move Speed, ability to Take 10 on movement skills under threat, the works. The more appropriate it is to the genre, and uses the bits of the scenery, the more likely it is to get bonuses. These Stunts are to be encouraged... just say what you want to do, and how you want to do it in a narrative way, and I will tell you if you have to roll or what bonuses you get on the action, or because of it."

[Once a Fool]

I'm still struggling with the caster question. All of this makes a fighter a swashbucking fighter and a rogue a swashbuckling rogue, but a wizard is still a wizard (that might parry once in a while if desperate).

Perhaps you could require that the size of a wizard's feathered hat, the amount of lace that s/he wears, and the tightness of his/her pantaloons is directly proportional to spell-casting level. While this would have no mechanical effect, it would go a long way toward establishing a wizard's place in the world (and how the world views them) if they cannot appear as mere non-magical folk.

Plus, you know...giant feathered hats, lots of lace, and tight pantaloons.

[lord pringle]

I'm leery of an outright ban on full casters, largely because of the campaign difficulties it might pose (Savage Tide starts out relatively mundane, but would be awfully brutal to a casterless party on the back half).


(Savage Tide starts out relatively mundane, but would be awfully brutal to a casterless party on the back half).


Savage Tide starts out relatively mundane.

Hah, hah. I killed three characters before they even entered the Thief's Guild. You pretty much need one ToB character as a survival tool and a full caster really helps. The early part is brutal.

[Telonius]

Perhaps you could require that the size of a wizard's feathered hat, the amount of lace that s/he wears, and the tightness of his/her pantaloons is directly proportional to spell-casting level. While this would have no mechanical effect, it would go a long way toward establishing a wizard's place in the world (and how the world views them) if they cannot appear as mere non-magical folk.

Plus, you know...giant feathered hats, lots of lace, and tight pantaloons.

http://mmii.info/icons/feenix007/ff_8bitRedMage.gif
"I approve of this message."

[Andorax]

More good ideas...please do keep them coming.

Lord pringle, I'd definately like any further insights you might have, since you've been down this (adventure) path before. What were the unsolvable-without-a-caster problems that they ran afoul of early on?

Gavinfoxx, do you think my skill-combination and action point refund rules will sufficiently encourage acts of daring do?



A quick thought or two on the damage conversion rule:

According to the rule, your Armor bonus = the amount of damage per dr-eligible hit (ie, not energy damage) that is turned into non-lethal.

So our brestplate-wearing hero takes a longsword hit for 8. 3 of that is lethal damage, 5 is non-lethal. He's still going to fall down just as soon as he otherwise would, but when he does so it's probably with enough non-lethal damage that he won't be dying from it unless the whole party goes down (which is a cue for the proper swashbuckling tradition of locking them up somewhere instead of killing them).

If we assume a lot of non-lethal damage is being thrown around then, what would be your take on this feat?

Alcohol-fueled heroics.

Benefit: After each encounter, the character may consume an alcoholic beverage (with all requisite fort save/ability damage consequences that come with it) in order to recover their character level's worth of nonlethal damage immediately.

Normal: It takes an hour's rest to recover a character level's worth of nonlethal damage.

[Boci]

Give every character 3 rerrolls per day, but only for climb, jump and tumble (the options can be customized based on the class). Use the action point system, but with the following modifications: you get 2 actions points per day. You may only use them when you are doing something awesome and/or ridiculous.

[Prime32]

Swashbuckling combat is anything but "use the same attack over and over", so I'd say give everyone a splash of ToB.

Everyone's 1st level is gestalted with a ToB class, their initiator level is equal to their character level, and they can retrain their maneuvers every level. Look into homebrew disciplines (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6265) so everyone has something that fits. Use action points, and allow characters to expend one to instantly ready/refresh any maneuver they know.

[Ezekiul]

The DMG has a section for advanced/exotic weapons. Of which there are gunpower weapons. In a pirate campaign I ran, the most difficult thing to deal with was ship vs ship combat. It just didn't seem to hold the attention of the players. So I would highly consider doing some test fights and change it more towards your liking.

[Cerlis]

well, limited ToB would indeed help. by limited i mean, offhand i'd think that only two or 3 disciplines would be appropriate. The mental one , the counter one, and maybe the tiger one if it was refluffed as combat focus.

I think one of the largest thing is the fluff, and i hope that your players are skilled/wise/capable of altering their mind set based on the setting.

By that i mean that sterotypically swashbucklers pair off. They almost always respect surrenders. They seek to disarm first, and kill only if necessary or in the heat of the moment. From what i've heard, most players would only seek to take advantage of such social ettiquette .

One thing you could get them to put in their character that would cause them to want to care about how they deal in battle, is family legacy. I'd imagine in a (high fantasy) version of swashbuckling most combatants would be easily recognizable. They'd wear a tabard (3 muskateers) , have a distinct feature of their own (the 6 fingered man!), or carry an item of legacy ( i believe D'artanien carried his father's sword?). You'd know just by looking or fighting who someone was, and if they in particular fought honorably, and what the legacy of their family was.

The respect (or lack of it) by swordsmen in such a marshal world would determine how you where treated if ever defeated, and if you had good repore it could gain you allies just by naming your father.

My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father. Prepare to die.

We are the Muskateers. All for one, and one for all!

[Boci]

well, limited ToB would indeed help. by limited i mean, offhand i'd think that only two or 3 disciplines would be appropriate. The mental one , the counter one, and maybe the tiger one if it was refluffed as combat focus.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the counter one, but here's my take on the disciplines.

Desert Wind: The Ex fit very well, due to their synergy with movement.
Devoted Spirit: Could work refluffed as determination, but shouldn't appear to often in NPCs, and any PC displaying then discipline should draw some attention due to the less lighthearted style of it.
Diamond Mind: Lose concentration and replace it with perception. This should work.
Iron Heart: Skill with a blade. Seems appropriate.
Setting Sun: Remove the higher level throwing ones and it should work.
Shadow Hand: Appropriate for the setting (at least the none Su ones), but not for the PCs.
Stone Dragon: Probably best to skip it.
Tiger Claw: Refluff as speed and precision rather than brutality.
White Raven: Swashbucklers have been known to display teamwork.

[Prime32]

Desert Wind: The Ex fit very well, due to their synergy with movement.D&D is a high-magic setting, so you should be able to make the fiery maneuvers work if you say your character has some kind of mystical connection to fire (eg. being a fire genasi) and has worked it into their fighting style.

Shadow Hand: Appropriate for the setting (at least the none Su ones), but not for the PCs.What, you've never heard of a swordsman slipping behind his enemy before he realises?

Stone Dragon: Probably best to skip it.For PCs maybe, but it's not hard to imagine encountering people who fight with a slow-and-steady style. Plus, individual maneuvers can fit perfectly well (Mountain Hammer is just "hit it really hard").

[Boci]

D&D is a high-magic setting, so you should be able to make the fiery maneuvers work if you say your character has some kind of mystical connection to fire (eg. being a fire genasi) and has worked it into their fighting style.

Could work, but not a grantee if a swahsbuckler feeling is being desired.


What, you've never heard of a swordsman slipping behind his enemy before he realises?

Better handled by the tumble skill + some maneuvre. Swashbucklers are generally very flashy, the assassin discipline doesn't seem to jive well with that.


For PCs maybe, but it's not hard to imagine encountering people who fight with a slow-and-steady style. Plus, individual maneuvers can fit perfectly well (Mountain Hammer is just "hit it really hard").

I guess so.

[Prime32]

Better handled by the tumble skill + some maneuvre. Swashbucklers are generally very flashy, the assassin discipline doesn't seem to jive well with that.:smallconfused: Most of the school is about feinting, along with things like climbing quickly, or dodging attacks better if you keep moving. Even for maneuvers like Shadow Garotte, you could describe it as throwing a nearby object. The only maneuvers that don't really fit a swashbuckler are the ones related to hiding and turning invisible.

[Boci]

:smallconfused: Most of the school is about feinting, along with things like climbing quickly, or dodging attacks better if you keep moving. Even for maneuvers like Shadow Garotte, you could describe it as throwing a nearby object. The only maneuvers that don't really fit a swashbuckler are the ones related to hiding and turning invisible.

What definition of "feinting" are you using?

[Prime32]

What definition of "feinting" are you using?In a face-to-face fight, denying your opponent their Dex bonus to AC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#feint), or otherwise catching your opponent off-guard through deceptive movements.

Maneuvers which involve feinting: Clinging Shadow Strike/Obscuring Shadow Veil, Ghost Blade, Island of Blades, Shadow Jaunt/Stride/Blink (if combined with shadowpounce stuff), Shadow Garotte, Shadow Blade Technique

[Occasional Sage]

I'll echo: just play 7th Sea, you'll be vastly happier.

[Andorax]

While all imput is welcomed, I'd like to respectfully suggest that you NOT suggest 7th sea, Pathfinder, 4E, or any other "other system" solution. This is a 3.5 campaign, the group isn't about to adopt a full new ruleset. Extensive houserules are a departure from the norm as it is.

It is intended to be a run through the full Savage Tides adventure path (a series of 12 adventures published in consecutive issues of Dungeon magazine from...139 through 150?). Thus, while I'm willing to adjust and tweak the stats to fit, I'm once again not about to rewrite every encounter from start to finish into another system entirely.

What I'm looking for is a means to bring a different "feel" to a 3.5 Eberron-setting Savage Tides campaign. If you want to recommend outside that, feel free to do so (someone else might benefit), but realize that it's not going to help me (the OP) in any way.

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Tome of Battle will certainly be welcome, though I don't see a specific benefit to mandating/gestalting it up front. A swashbuckling style can be achieved either with it or without it, or with splashes of it. As Prime32 mentioned, it's a high-fantasy setting, so I'm perfectly alright with a Desert Wind fire-flinger in the group.

I already have some idea of one of the PCs for the campaign...and already I'm groaning. He is making a genuine effort to tie into the genre conventions, but has a drastic flare for the unusual. Without going into huge amounts of detail, he's looking to play a draconic centaur and being the muscular "anchor" to the party's more acrobatic efforts.

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No opinions on Alcohol-fueled heroics?

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Boci, is that suggestion in addition to what I already said, or in lieu of...and if so, may I ask why you feel that my skill-combination and action point refund rules aren't viable as-writ?

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Ezekiul, from what I've seen of Savage Tide, there's mercifully little ship to ship combat...I think I can handle most of it in a narrative format and focus on the PC's localized heroics instead of what the ships are doing large-scale.

I'm also planning on building one of WorldWorks' "Maiden of the High Seas" for the Sea Wyvern (it even has a proper figurehead for it).