Tarquin's gate plan - what is it, exactly?

[Finagle]

Tarquin's plan is to move in after the Order and seize the gate from them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html). What, exactly, does he plan to do next? Make contact with Xykon somehow and ask him nicely if he'll share the Gate ritual? None of it will work without Redcloak anyway, and he'll never agree as he's a human-hater. Just squat on the gate as it's powerful and therefore worth having just because?

Other than Xykon, are there even any suitable epic wizards in the world who are able to cast the Gate ritual? I don't think we know any. I'm sure the elves have one somewhere but our information is quite scarce on them.

Tarquin doesn't know that Team Evil is due to show up any strip now. It's his imperfect information that will lead to big trouble. My opinion is that his only chance to survive against Team Evil is if he has already alerted the other members of his party, and they arrive at a suitably dramatic moment.

This whole thing looks like it will end badly for Tarquin. Wouldn't it be dramatic if, if Tarquin dies unresurrectably, the Empress can't hold the Empire of Blood together and the whole thing reverts to the status quo ante (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/status%20quo%20ante) of pointless, destructive conflict? What would the CG types say then? I suppose the other members of his party could move in and cover for him, but he seems to be the irreplaceable driving force behind it all.

If anyone is wondering about the double post on the main forum, it's due to "500 internal server error" when I clicked to post the new thread.

[Mike Havran]

I will bet on the long shot and say that Tarquin wants to destroy the Gate in the first place. It's too dangerous for him, he has no means to control it (he doesn't believe Nale's excuse, he is not that dumb), and there is still one gate left in the northern wilderness, so the sooner both protagonists and the scenery-chewing villain leave his little continent, the better for him.

[EmperorSarda]

Tarquin's plan is to move in after the Order and seize the gate from them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html). What, exactly, does he plan to do next? Make contact with Xykon somehow and ask him nicely if he'll share the Gate ritual? None of it will work without Redcloak anyway, and he'll never agree as he's a human-hater. Just squat on the gate as it's powerful and therefore worth having just because?

Tarquin has no idea who Xykon is or who Nale worked with before that have the rituals. Also any attempt to contact Xykon will probably fail due to the effects of cloister.

Tarquin either believes that Nale can make do on his promise of giving over the gate ritual or as mentioned by Mike, destroy it.


Other than Xykon, are there even any suitable epic wizards in the world who are able to cast the Gate ritual? I don't think we know any. I'm sure the elves have one somewhere but our information is quite scarce on them.
I haven't read SoD, but the ritual is just a ritual and not a spell. And Xykon was probably not epic level when he faced off against Lirian, so the ritual probably doesn't require too high of a caster level. V could probably use it.
[/QUOTE]

[RMS Oceanic]

I suppose the biggest question about Tarquin's plan so far is this: Why conceal his identity from the Order? If he's determined that Elan should be the one to defeat him - if anyone defeats him at all - then revealing that he is in league with Nale would give Elan the impetus to try. That's why I suspect he's playing a more subtle game.

[King of Nowhere]

I don't think tarquin knows - yet. he's been shown to change plan many times, he's good at improvising. I think he considers the gate worth seizing per se, and he will figure out later what to do with it. I don't think he will trade with xykon, he's too smart to not realize xykon only wants the power for himself.
by the way, I think nale told him about xykon. however, he has no way of knowing xykon may arrive at any time

[B. Dandelion]

Tarquin's plan is to move in after the Order and seize the gate from them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html). What, exactly, does he plan to do next? Make contact with Xykon somehow and ask him nicely if he'll share the Gate ritual?

Nale implied he could get the ritual from Team Evil, so Tarquin may be banking on that.

I have no idea what Nale plans to do. Or if he actually has a plan, as opposed to implying he had one when his life depended on appearing indispensable.


None of it will work without Redcloak anyway, and he'll never agree as he's a human-hater.

Redcloak hates humans and thinks the undead are things, yet he's able to work with human-turned-lich Xykon. I don't think he'll necessarily knee-jerk reject any offer Tarquin or Nale make because of their race. I'm not saying they necessarily can offer anything he might actually find appealing, but if they do, I don't think his bigotry represents a completely insurmountable barrier.


Just squat on the gate as it's powerful and therefore worth having just because?

Nah.


Other than Xykon, are there even any suitable epic wizards in the world who are able to cast the Gate ritual? I don't think we know any. I'm sure the elves have one somewhere but our information is quite scarce on them.

Nowhere is it said you have to be epic to cast the spell. You have to be epic to build the Gates, but not to do the ritual. The other characters thought it was plausible that Tsukiko could have cast the whole thing by herself, and Redcloak in SoD was prepared to cast his half at level nine or ten.


Tarquin doesn't know that Team Evil is due to show up any strip now.

You know, I totally wouldn't count on that.

He knows about Xykon. He was able to deduce Xykon's existence before anyone had ever said a word about him. He knows the Order is primarily trying to stop him, and that he's after the Gates. He's absurdly genre savvy. The odds are pretty good he sees it coming.


It's his imperfect information that will lead to big trouble. My opinion is that his only chance to survive against Team Evil is if he has already alerted the other members of his party, and they arrive at a suitably dramatic moment.

I hadn't thought of that! That could be fun.


This whole thing looks like it will end badly for Tarquin. Wouldn't it be dramatic if, if Tarquin dies unresurrectably, the Empress can't hold the Empire of Blood together and the whole thing reverts to the status quo ante (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/status%20quo%20ante) of pointless, destructive conflict? What would the CG types say then? I suppose the other members of his party could move in and cover for him, but he seems to be the irreplaceable driving force behind it all.

I think it's kind of unlikely that events will play out in such a way as to explicitly vindicate Tarquin's tyrannical approach. By the same token I don't think the strip's going to end with us thinking the Dark One had been right all along to put the entire universe in jeopardy and attempt to blackmail his way into equality. Or that we're going to find out that V's Familicide actually saved the planet.

[Kish]

Other than Xykon, are there even any suitable epic wizards in the world who are able to cast the Gate ritual?
Did...did you just call Xykon a wizard?

[Hopeless]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finagle
It's his imperfect information that will lead to big trouble. My opinion is that his only chance to survive against Team Evil is if he has already alerted the other members of his party, and they arrive at a suitably dramatic moment.

I hadn't thought of that! That could be fun.

Ditto on this, I'd really like to see this happen!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Finagle
This whole thing looks like it will end badly for Tarquin. Wouldn't it be dramatic if, if Tarquin dies unresurrectably, the Empress can't hold the Empire of Blood together and the whole thing reverts to the status quo ante of pointless, destructive conflict? What would the CG types say then? I suppose the other members of his party could move in and cover for him, but he seems to be the irreplaceable driving force behind it all.

I think it's kind of unlikely that events will play out in such a way as to explicitly vindicate Tarquin's tyrannical approach. By the same token I don't think the strip's going to end with us thinking the Dark One had been right all along to put the entire universe in jeopardy and attempt to blackmail his way into equality. Or that we're going to find out that V's Familicide actually saved the planet.

Now that would be hilarious but unlikely.
What it might do is reveal what Girard had left as a final means of denying the Paladins... sorry Xykon :smallwink: and whoever else would come after the Gate and I suspect the Order might have to flee by some means most probably Durkon's plane shift spell whilst Tarquin's group can use teleport but I suspect one of them has to remain behind to insure the destruction of the gate but I am wondering if that person is Malack hopefully with Nale trapped with him so he can get his vengeance and provide a reversal of Girard's role in this.

[Finagle]

Tarquin doesn't know that Team Evil is due to show up any strip now.
You know, I totally wouldn't count on that.

He knows about Xykon. He was able to deduce Xykon's existence before anyone had ever said a word about him. He knows the Order is primarily trying to stop him, and that he's after the Gates. He's absurdly genre savvy. The odds are pretty good he sees it coming.
Well, nobody except us readers knows that Team Evil will show up any minute now. Roy doesn't know that specifically either. All he knows is that the gate needs to be protected as soon as possible, because Team Evil could show up at any time, not that it will in the next day or two.

Characters acting on the information that they know is one of the themes of the strip. It's one of the things I think the author has learned well from years of RPG'ing: the ability to make PCs and NPCs act like they would really act instead of utilizing the player or DM's outside knowledge.

[Silferdrake]

Tarquin is good, yes, but not omnipotent. Couldn't it simply be that he is vastly overestimating his own abilities? Chances are that the only things Tarquin knows about Xykon is what he heard from Nale, who fancies himself more competent than the Lich. Perhaps he figures that he'll either be able to get Xykon to spill the beans or figure out the ritual by himself (with the aid of his former partymembers). He wouldn't be the first to underestimate a certain undead sorcerer.

[sims796]

I simply took it as Tarquin's doing this on a point-by-point basis. He'll capture the gate now, and figure it out later .What he does know is that the Gate is an immensely powerful artifact that will allow control over the world. For that alone, I would figure he would want to control it himself, if only to secure that power, then learn how to access that power (and fortify his defenses) later, similar to what Redcloak did. Or at least did in theory.


Tarquin is good, yes, but not omnipotent. Couldn't it simply be that he is vastly overestimating his own abilities? Chances are that the only things Tarquin knows about Xykon is what he heard from Nale, who fancies himself more competent than the Lich. Perhaps he figures that he'll either be able to get Xykon to spill the beans or figure out the ritual by himself (with the aid of his former partymembers). He wouldn't be the first to underestimate a certain undead sorcerer.

Yeah, this.

[Kish]

Well, nobody except us readers knows that Team Evil will show up any minute now. Roy doesn't know that specifically either. All he knows is that the gate needs to be protected as soon as possible, because Team Evil could show up at any time, not that it will in the next day or two.
He knows that there is no possible way to prevent Xykon from getting within a thousand feet of the Gate before either the Gate or Xykon is destroyed, if he's thought about it at all.

...Which is actually as much as we know. We don't know that Xykon and Redcloak are going to show up any minute now, just that they'll get there before it's all over.

[Dr. Gamera]

[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html"]Other than Xykon, are there even any suitable epic wizards in the world who are able to cast the Gate ritual? I don't think we know any.

We know Dorukan, of course, who qualifies as "able" but perhaps not as "suitable".

[B. Dandelion]

Well, nobody except us readers knows that Team Evil will show up any minute now. Roy doesn't know that specifically either. All he knows is that the gate needs to be protected as soon as possible, because Team Evil could show up at any time, not that it will in the next day or two.

Characters acting on the information that they know is one of the themes of the strip. It's one of the things I think the author has learned well from years of RPG'ing: the ability to make PCs and NPCs act like they would really act instead of utilizing the player or DM's outside knowledge.

I don't think Tarquin does have to act on knowledge he couldn't possibly have had. I think he does know enough that Xykon showing up is a matter of when, not if. I mean he knows Xykon is their foe and they went there in a plan connected to Xykon, so how is he caught off-guard by Xykon showing up when he was always expected to?

I think maybe he would have preferred Xykon didn't show up... that dealing with him might require falling on a backup plan, or that while he had planned for Xykon, he'd underestimated him (seeing as he's never met the guy). But not see it coming? I wouldn't count on it.

[JavaScribe]

Storywise, if an evil dictator conquers a country in the background, he might actually get away with it. But if said evil dictator decides to overplay his hand (like by going against the protagonists and getting his hands on some ancient superweapon), the dictator is definetly going to fall. The only way to subvert this is for the dictator to have a very good point in his ideology. The best Tarquin can come up with is that his way of doing things is slightly less bloody than the alternative.

Tarquin, being genre savvy as he is, would probably know this. Maybe he is even counting on it to test his heroic son. Don't forget how he annoyed Malack by toying with the Order to take Elan's measure.

I suspect that Tarquin really is just in it for the ride as he said earlier. And the chance to fight that Greenhilt fellow.

[Cuthalion]

by the way, I think nale told him about xykon. however, he has no way of knowing xykon may arrive at any time

I wouldn't be surprised if Elan told him. Also storywise, the protagonists always beat the antagonists in the end, anyway. I think at least one of the Linear Guild will die in the conflict, though.

[veti]

The obvious answer is that he plans to do a deal with Xykon when he shows up. Maybe he thinks mere possession of the gate counts as a bargaining chip, in which case he's probably underestimating him.

Or maybe he thinks that once he talks to Xykon in person, he can manipulate and/or charm him into cutting a decent deal. Which is almost certainly underestimating him.

Personally, I think he's mainly there because he's a control freak. He can't stand the thought of something important going down in his territory without him being in on it. The blather about looking out for his sons, or being genre savvy, or whatever other excuses he might come up with - is basically just covering for his own ginormous ego.

[Gift Jeraff]

He just wants to take a picture of Girard's Gate and share it with his friends across various social media.

[Cuthalion]

He just wants to take a picture of Girard's Gate and share it with his friends across various social media.

That's Malack. He has a Macebook account, you know.

[snikrept]

IMO Tarquin is here to betray Nale and help Elan save the world. Tarquin has told us that he is playing the long game on the continent; and that his best case scenario is that Elan succeeds on his quest, levels up a bunch, and comes back to fight Tarquin in the distant future in a climactic showdown.

Of course Tarquin could be lying about his ambitions for Elan and the continent. But he certainly seemed passionate about it.

[Finagle]

IMO Tarquin is here to betray Nale and help Elan save the world. Tarquin has told us that he is playing the long game on the continent; and that his best case scenario is that Elan succeeds on his quest, levels up a bunch, and comes back to fight Tarquin in the distant future in a climactic showdown.

Of course Tarquin could be lying about his ambitions for Elan and the continent. But he certainly seemed passionate about it.
Huh. Interesting viewpoint! One that I hadn't considered. If Xykon gets his hands on the gate, it's all over for humanity. But Tarquin likes living and likes ruling his empire - things that will come to a screeching halt if Xykon wins and enables the Rise of Goblins.

[dps]

Huh. Interesting viewpoint! One that I hadn't considered. If Xykon gets his hands on the gate, it's all over for humanity. But Tarquin likes living and likes ruling his empire - things that will come to a screeching halt if Xykon wins and enables the Rise of Goblins.

Xykon has no interest in enabling the Rise of Goblins. That's Redcloak's plan. Xykon just wants The Rise of Xykon.

[ti'esar]

Yes, but if Xykon succeeds at his gate plan, it will enable the rise of goblins. The Rise of Xykon ain't happening no matter what, at least not using the Snarl.

[Finagle]

Yes, but if Xykon succeeds at his gate plan, it will enable the rise of goblins. The Rise of Xykon ain't happening no matter what, at least not using the Snarl.
Well, yeah. But Xykon doesn't know that.

[King of Nowhere]

IMO Tarquin is here to betray Nale and help Elan save the world. Tarquin has told us that he is playing the long game on the continent; and that his best case scenario is that Elan succeeds on his quest, levels up a bunch, and comes back to fight Tarquin in the distant future in a climactic showdown.

Of course Tarquin could be lying about his ambitions for Elan and the continent. But he certainly seemed passionate about it.

I also think, iif he had to choose, he'd do his best to protect the gate from xykon, even if he knew it would kill him. it would be a nice way to go, it would be an entertaining fight, and tarquin strikes to me as the kind of villain who would sacrifice himself for the greater good if the right circumstances arose. he did plenty of evil but would not be insensible to a treath to the entire world

[ti'esar]

I also think, iif he had to choose, he'd do his best to protect the gate from xykon, even if he knew it would kill him. it would be a nice way to go, it would be an entertaining fight, and tarquin strikes to me as the kind of villain who would sacrifice himself for the greater good if the right circumstances arose. he did plenty of evil but would not be insensible to a treath to the entire world

I don't really think Tarquin would do it for moral reasons, but he might possibly do it to 'look cool'.


Well, yeah. But Xykon doesn't know that.

It's a moot point for this conversation anyway. The point is that Xykon and Redcloak pulling off the Plan would be very bad for Tarquin.