Summoning into occupied space

[ZatriX]

Hi all,

A quick question on summoning:

Two guys that don't see each other, summon a monster each into a square, that they both see. Since the casting (including the coordinates) is complete as a full-round action, but the summoned creatures only appear on the caster's next initiative, both cast their spell on the empty square.

What happens to the second creature when it appears in the occupied square?

In this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215039) tread 0nimaru mentions:


Having you declare where it's being summoned is reasonable, although if it summons to an occupied square it should be shunted to a nearby square

If that is so, where do I find the specific rule for this, and does the shunted creature take any damage?

[Yuki Akuma]

You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.


A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

This doesn't work; you decide where the creature appears when you finish casting. You can't select a square that's already occupied.

[ZatriX]

In other words, you only choose the location of the summoned creature on your nex turn, just before it appears, NOT when you cast the spell?

That makes life so much easier :smallsmile:

[Darrin]

There generally aren't any simultaneous actions in D&D. Whoever goes first in the initiative order completes their summons, choosing an unoccupied space. The next person goes, and then must choose an unoccupied space.

If both summoners are acting on the same initiative count, you compare the initiative bonus as a tie-breaker. If they are still tied, you roll-off to determine who goes first.

[ZatriX]

The problem, that I had, was that when they begin casting (and, as I thought, designate the target), the square is still unoccupied, thus making it a legit target. But by the end of 1st cast it is occupied, so 2nd caster must change the target.

Since that is not an issue, according to the SRD, since the target isd only chosen when the summoned creature appears, there is no problem.

[Yuki Akuma]

There generally aren't any simultaneous actions in D&D.

The only case of simultaneous actions I can think of is a duel using Iaijutsu Focus (from Oriental Adventures), where it's absolutely possible for both guys to kill each other.

But in every other case, actions always happen one after another. Even readies actions and immediate actions go just before whatever was happening when they activated.

[nedz]

This doesn't work; you decide where the creature appears when you finish casting. You can't select a square that's already occupied.

Yes, but there is the related problem of Summoning a monster into a square occupied by an undetected invisible creature.

The standard interpretation is that it gets randomly shunted, but I'm not sure if that is RAW or RAI ?