OotS and the Seven Deadly Sins

[Silferdrake]

When I make characters for RPGs and such, I usually apply one or two of the deadly sins into their behavior, which in turn makes think which sins other characters are guilty of as well. What do you guys think? Which sins can we apply to the Order of the Stick cast? I, of course, mean the sins as personality traits, not in a religious manner.

(The seven sins for those of you who needs a reminder are: pride, envy, lust, wrath, greed, sloth, and gluttony.)

The Order

:roy: I'd go with pride for our beloved leader. At least initialy he displayed very prideful behavior. Wanting to show that he was capable of defeating Xykon rather than defeating him because it was the right thing to do.

:haley: Greed. But perhaps not as much as one would think as she needed the money to bail her father out of jail. But she's still rather greedy.

:durkon: Well, I can't really say that any of the seven sins falls on him.

:vaarsuvius: Pride. Definitely pride.

:elan: As with Durkon, I can't really place any of the vices on him. I guess he's just too pure at heart.

:belkar: Oooh, the Belkster probably keeps them as a checklist of things he should do each days. Wrath? Oh yes. Lust and gluttony? Works well with his love for ale and whores. Pride? Well, he fancies himself a sexy shoeless god of war. Greed? Quite so. Perhaps we haven't seen as many examples of sloth and envy but I'm quite sure those two fit with him as well.

Team Evil

:xykon: He's a bit of a tricky one. I'd say pride and sloth are his greatest.

:redcloak: Poor Wrong-Eye is so prideful that it hurts. The best example is in Start of Darkness, I think you know what I mean.

:mitd: Gluttony, thy name is the Monster in the Darkness.

The Linear Guild

:nale: Pride is his biggest but I'd say he mixes is up with a healthy dose of wrath as well.

:sabine: Lust. That's a nobrainer.

:thog: Another tricky one. As a raging barbarian wrath would perhaps suit him? But we've only seen him rage one time. Gluttony perhaps, due to his passionate love of ice cream?

Feel free to add other characters to the list, or to correct me if you think I'm wrong with any of the above.

[Obnoxious Hydra]

I don't think it would be to much of a stretch to accuse Durkon of gluttony, as he loves his beer whenever he can get it, but obviously he's not a worst case scenario.

I would say Vaarsuvius could also have Wrath, though he's improving on it lately.

I think Envy can also go to Redcloak, because of his hatred of how better off humans are than Goblins

:miko: Pride and Wrath for this one, methinks.

I think for Tsukiko, lust could be applicable, and maybe pride as she was always trying to convince herself about how she was Xykon's favourite.

[Lorick]

I'd also throw gluttony down on V. People commonly think it only applies to food, but it's the desire of more, so it fit V well. Also, sloth for the MitD.

[Water_Bear]

:nale: I think Nale has at least as much Envy as Pride.

He got kicked out by his father when he tried to steal the throne of the Empire of Blood, seemingly to have something of his own instead of enjoying his presumably much higher position as part of Tarquin's conspiracy. That and his anger at Tarquin macking on Sabine also shows this envy.

You could argue that the Linear Guild is an attempt to 'take' Elan's identity; if he was all about Pride he would likely balk at defining himself in opposition to his 'inferior' sibling. In his second appearance he actually does take Elan's place in OotS. Also note that when he begins to betray the Order of the Stick he immediately tries to seduce and kill Haley primarily to get back at Elan; 'stealing' his love-interest.

Tsukiko is definitely Envy and Lust, but her hatred of the living and desperate need for affection implies Sloth (the despair kind, not the lazy kind).

Other than that, the OP seems spot-on.

[Forikroder]

I'd go with pride for our beloved leader. At least initialy he displayed very prideful behavior. Wanting to show that he was capable of defeating Xykon rather than defeating him because it was the right thing to do.

unless it was mentioned in a prequal i dont remember him ever saying that he wanted to take down Xykon to prove he could but more to do it because daddy needed him to

[Emperordaniel]

unless it was mentioned in a prequal i dont remember him ever saying that he wanted to take down Xykon to prove he could but more to do it because daddy needed him to

He's not doing it for his father's sake, at least. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0293.html)


If it weren't for the threat to the entire world, I would tell you to shove your "blood oath" against Xykon up your wrinkled incorporeal ass.

[Forikroder]

He's not doing it for his father's sake, at least. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0293.html)

"ill be the first to admit i got into this quest for all the wrong reasons" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html)

how i interpret it at least is hes saying that he didnt do the quest at the start becuase he learned of Xykon and wanted to stop his evilness but more because daddy wanted him to

obviously that changed at Azure city after he learned Xykon was still alive

[oppyu]

unless it was mentioned in a prequal i dont remember him ever saying that he wanted to take down Xykon to prove he could but more to do it because daddy needed him to

Not-really-spoileriffic quote from 'The Origin of PCs'
Roy: "But I'm not going to do this for YOU, Dad. I'm doing it because you don't think I can. That's more than enough reason to try my best. I won't rest until I've avenged your loss and proven you wrong in one bold stroke! And for that to happen... I MUST DESTROY XYKON!"

[Forikroder]

Not-really-spoileriffic quote from 'The Origin of PCs'
Roy: "But I'm not going to do this for YOU, Dad. I'm doing it because you don't think I can. That's more than enough reason to try my best. I won't rest until I've avenged your loss and proven you wrong in one bold stroke! And for that to happen... I MUST DESTROY XYKON!"

okay ya thats sorta pride

a mix of wrath in there too

[skaddix]

Elan - Sloth
Roy - Pride
Haley - Greed
V - Gluttony for knowledge and power or if you want to twist the definitions an insatiable Lust for Power
Belkar - Wrath is the major one

[Silferdrake]

I don't think it would be to much of a stretch to accuse Durkon of gluttony, as he loves his beer whenever he can get it, but obviously he's not a worst case scenario.


Well, if he's guilty to anything it's probably gluttony. Though I guess you could also make a half baked case of sloth, based on the Don't Split the Party days.


:nale: I think Nale has at least as much Envy as Pride.

He got kicked out by his father when he tried to steal the throne of the Empire of Blood, seemingly to have something of his own instead of enjoying his presumably much higher position as part of Tarquin's conspiracy. That and his anger at Tarquin macking on Sabine also shows this envy.

You could argue that the Linear Guild is an attempt to 'take' Elan's identity; if he was all about Pride he would likely balk at defining himself in opposition to his 'inferior' sibling. In his second appearance he actually does take Elan's place in OotS. Also note that when he begins to betray the Order of the Stick he immediately tries to seduce and kill Haley primarily to get back at Elan; 'stealing' his love-interest.


Yes, I totally missed that. If you look a the twin switching that way envy, not pride, is his major sin (though non would argue that pride isn't a big part of his character).


I'd also throw gluttony down on V. People commonly think it only applies to food, but it's the desire of more, so it fit V well. Also, sloth for the MitD.

Correct. V is quite gluttonous as well, and sloth applies well to the MitD.


okay ya thats sorta pride

a mix of wrath in there too

It's hard to say is Roy is particularly wrathful or if experiencing the events he does would make anyone a bit crabby ;).


Elan - Sloth
Roy - Pride
Haley - Greed
V - Gluttony for knowledge and power or if you want to twist the definitions an insatiable Lust for Power
Belkar - Wrath is the major one

I'm not sure if I'd place Elan under sloth, though I guess there are some support for it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html) (last panel).

[oppyu]

More possible evidence of Elan (formerly) going under sloth, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0558.html

"I first became an adventurer because it seemed fun and exciting. And hey, if I acted silly and slacked off, it didn't matter too much-"

(And the last panel has a reminder of Therkla's one-track mind, and what sin that tended towards -_-)

[WoolenSocks]

It's interesting how many characters have issues with pride. It's a trait of almost every major villain: Xykon, Redcloak, Nale, Miko, as well as featuring hugely in V's side-plot and being a trait of Roy himself. I think it's definitely a major theme of the strip as a whole.

Also, I don't think Belkar's violent behavior is a result of wrath. He does it for pleasure, because he finds it amusing. His problem is a lack of empathy which doesn't seem to fall under any of the seven deadly sins. You'd think there would be one for that!!

[ManuelSacha]

Definitely sloth for Elan.

[Edric O]

It's interesting how many characters have issues with pride. It's a trait of almost every major villain: Xykon, Redcloak, Nale, Miko, as well as featuring hugely in V's side-plot and being a trait of Roy himself. I think it's definitely a major theme of the strip as a whole.
To be fair, pride is a major trait of almost all villains ever (the only exceptions I can think of are mindless villains). After all, pride is the root of all sin...

On another note: Wait, if the desire for more anything (not just food) counts as gluttony, then what's greed? I always thought greed was the desire to accumulate material possessions (including money, of course, but not limited to it) and gluttony was the over-indulgence of your biological needs.

[WoolenSocks]

On another note: Wait, if the desire for more anything (not just food) counts as gluttony, then what's greed? I always thought greed was the desire to accumulate material possessions (including money, of course, but not limited to it) and gluttony was the over-indulgence of your biological needs.

And if gluttony is over-indulging your physical needs, what's lust? There's some overlap. :smallamused:

I guess if you get technical, lust is desiring things, greed is accumulating them, and gluttony is using them...

[Lord Tyger]

Also, I don't think Belkar's violent behavior is a result of wrath. He does it for pleasure, because he finds it amusing. His problem is a lack of empathy which doesn't seem to fall under any of the seven deadly sins. You'd think there would be one for that!!

In the immortal words of Granny Weatherwax- " Sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is."

[Silferdrake]

It's true that several characters, especially villains, suffer from pride. But pride is an excellent character trait in a story. In fact, pride is what makes most characters interesting, or even in a lot of cases what makes them human.

While I have no sympathies what so ever for Xykon, his pride is what can make me understand the wicked pile of bones. Hell, it what's makes him a good character (the same with Redcloak, but for very different reasons). While he is a complete son of a (dog female) his pridefullness in his class, his scorn for those who look down on him and his "power and style" routine is what makes me cheer for the guy in Start of Darkness, and what makes me root for him in the power struggle with Redcloak.

Pride is also what makes Roy into a good protagonist. I, at least, would have a rather hard time to associate with a hero that's on a save the world quest for the pure purpose of saving the world. Roy is a good guy, but he also feels an overwhelming need to prove himself, a prime example is his recent fight with Thog. Saving the world is something few of us can relate to. Proving that you're good enough is something most of us go through on a regular basis.

That's the good thing with the Seven Sins, it's motivations that we can all (to some degree) associate with.

[SavageWombat]

And if gluttony is over-indulging your physical needs, what's lust? There's some overlap. :smallamused:

I guess if you get technical, lust is desiring things, greed is accumulating them, and gluttony is using them...

Lust is predatory. Gluttony is just overindulgence.

If you spend all your time with floozies and hookers, that's gluttony. If you seek out people and seduce them with no care for their feelings, that's lust.

[zimmerwald1915]

Lust is predatory. Gluttony is just overindulgence.
Not quite. To lust is to desire, to be a glutton is to consume. Compare envy and greed. To envy is to desire something of someone else's, as opposed to lust's more general nature. To be greedy is to accumulate. I trust the distinction with gluttony is plain.

[ferrodoxin]

No..
Gluttony cannot describe the lust for power.

Gluttony is when you keep consuming even though you don't need to, and even though it makes you fat and stupid.

V's quest for power is a purposeful and intelligent accumulation. That fits better with greed than gluttony.
If V kept using up high-xp cost spells because s/he liked to feel powerful, that would be something like gluttony.... But then again this could also count as vanity, since this is a desire of the ego whereas gluttony represents the id.

A worm who consumed all it can find is gluttonous.
An ant colony who consume a lot to care for their young and expand their colony are greedy.

[Boogastreehouse]

Everybody commenting here would probably enjoy "The Screwtape Letters" by C. S. Lewis, in which an experienced devil writes letters of advice to his nephew, a young tempter.

It's told from a Christian perspective, but the analysis of sin and virtue is fascinating and accessible to someone of any or no faith.

To be clear, I'm not endorsing any real-world religion here! I'm just recommending a classic work of fiction.

There's an audio book narrated by John Cleese (it's on youtube) and it's just great.