32 point buy Pally enough ?

[silverwolfer]

Is 32 point buy enough for a dwarf pally?

[Yuki Akuma]

32 point buy is generally enough for anyone who isn't a Monk. Just pick somewhere to focus and don't spread yourself too thin, and you'll be fine.

[Gwendol]

For what exactly? A paladin is still MAD no matter the point buy.

[Baldin]

Well it depends on what u think yourself. IMO 32 point but is enough for almost everything. Seeing you want to play paladin means you do not optimize. Only problem with paladin is that if you want to be a damage paladin you need high str, con, wis and cha which is very hard to get.

Paladins are MAD(multiple ability dependant) by default.
but IMO its nice=]

[silverwolfer]

Well mostly focused on melee, not spells or such . will be a shadowbane inquistor

[tyckspoon]

IMO it's still not enough, but it depends on what you're willing to dump and how high your stats need to be for you to consider them good. 32 points can get you a 16 Str, 16 Con, 14 Wis, 14 Cha (after racial mods), for example, which is pretty serviceable- it hits the areas you need it to function as a melee combatant and to get benefit from your Paladin abilities. But it sacrifices Dex and Int completely, which could be a problem depending on how you like to play; I could never be happy with a character that got only 1 skill point/level.

[Wyntonian]

Seeing you want to play paladin means you do not optimize. Only problem with paladin is that if you want to be a damage paladin you need high str, con, wis and cha which is very hard to get.

Paladins are MAD(multiple ability dependant) by default.
but IMO its nice=]

The first sentence of the above is a crock. Anyone can play anything and still optimize. Yes, there are better options that can suit the same archetype, but don't let anyone tell you that you don't know what you're doing or that you're having fun incorrectly because of what class you're playing.

That said, paladins have it rough. They want Charisma for a bunch of abilities and turning, wisdom for casting, str/con for melee and dex as well. And int, too, for skill points, which they don't have many of.

This is called MAD, or Multiple Attribute Dependency, and it hurts because you need to split your resources more than other classes.


32 point buy is generally enough for anyone who isn't a Monk. Just pick somewhere to focus and don't spread yourself too thin, and you'll be fine.

Pretty much this. There's no magic right number for point buy, honestly. 32 is pretty standard.

[Quietus]

IMO it's still not enough, but it depends on what you're willing to dump and how high your stats need to be for you to consider them good. 32 points can get you a 16 Str, 16 Con, 14 Wis, 14 Cha (after racial mods), for example, which is pretty serviceable- it hits the areas you need it to function as a melee combatant and to get benefit from your Paladin abilities. But it sacrifices Dex and Int completely, which could be a problem depending on how you like to play; I could never be happy with a character that got only 1 skill point/level.

I'd probably go with a stat line of Str 16/Dex 10/Con 14/Int 10/Wis 14/Cha 14, personally. Or, if I was planning on PrC'ing out, drop the Wis to 10 and put those points back into something else.

[silverwolfer]

16/10/16/10/10/14?

[Gwendol]

I'd use equal wis and cha, but to each his own.

[eggs]

If 32 pb isn't enough to build a playable character, I doubt the problem has anything to do with the character's ability scores.

[Yuki Akuma]

16/10/16/10/10/14?

If you're going to PrC out as soon as possible and not use your spells at all, sure, that'll work.

[herrhauptmann]

If you're going to PrC out as soon as possible and not use your spells at all, sure, that'll work.

In that case, go non-casting paladin from complete warrior. The only advantage to keeping your spell list is wand access.

[silverwolfer]

In that case, go non-casting paladin from complete warrior. The only advantage to keeping your spell list is wand access.


No good as shadowbane inquistor does not contiue as a paliden level.

[eggs]

Complete Warrior's Spell-less Paladin is very bad. Complete Champion's is less so.

But I wouldn't necessarily recommend that even. Wand access is fantastic.

[silverwolfer]

Complete Warrior's Spell-less Paladin is very bad. Complete Champion's is less so.

But I wouldn't necessarily recommend that even. Wand access is fantastic.

well, it is a UNDERDARK campiegn , so I will be giving up my mount for underdark knight, which is like dark vision +90 +2 to some skills, and able to move 10 ft faster underground.

[SowZ]

well, it is a UNDERDARK campiegn , so I will be giving up my mount for underdark knight, which is like dark vision +90 +2 to some skills, and able to move 10 ft faster underground.

If it is for flavor, sweet, go for it. But mechanically that is a poor trade since you are more than 10ft faster with a mount and there are a lot of ways to easily see in the dark. But far be it from me to discourage roleplaying choices. I just might try and wrangle a little something else out of my DM for it, hehe. That's me, though.

[Rhatahema]

I would suggest playing a Dwarven subrace if you can. Gold Dwarves [DMG] are +2 Con -2Dex, which should work better for a Paladin. Then, after racial adjustments, you're looking at 16/10/16/10/10/15. Only 1 point difference, but hey, every point counts. Otherwise, if it's an underdark campaign, you might instead think about playing a Deep Dwarf [MM].

The Serenity feat from Dragon Compendium lets you use your wisdom modifier in place of you charisma modifier for divine grace, lay on hands, smite evil, and turn undead, which could help. (In that case, I'd suggest checking out Earth Dwarves from Uneartched Arcana) Though the feat won't help you with paladin PrCs that base their abilities on charisma.

[silverwolfer]

would be bad as I cast bright snhiney things and be dazzled all the time.

[SowZ]

would be bad as I cast bright snhiney things and be dazzled all the time.

Serenity is still worth taking, though.

[Ozreth]

Meh, for most of the world rolling stats is still good enough so. Yeah :p

[silverwolfer]

haha ty ozerath

[Eldariel]

Meh, for most of the world rolling stats is still good enough so. Yeah :p

Then again, you can generally only play Paladin if you roll incredibly well. Hell, that was a requirement for the class back in the day :smallwink:

[Gwendol]

How about using a drow riding lizard as mount then?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Then again, you can generally only play Paladin if you roll incredibly well. Hell, that was a requirement for the class back in the day :smallwink:

Yea, that 17 Cha requirement was a PITA, hard to get that and an 18 for Str so you could get your percentiles.

TBH, mechanically, Paladins suck. I'm surprised no one has said 'Go Crusader' yet, since it's the most commonly suggested alternative, even when the OP *HAS* explicitly listed it as banned.

It's got little or nothing to do with the stats. It's got a lot more to do with the class really not being good at anything, other than a two-level dip for Cha to saves for Cha-centric builds (Sorcadin builds spring to mind)

Yes, the Paladin is MAD. And a higher PB will help mitigate this. But that is one of several glaring problems with the class.

[Mithril Leaf]

If you don't want the paladin for the rather uptight flavor, the paladin of freedom varient is a fair deal funner to be around. Also, since you're trading in your mount, be sure to spend a small amount of your WBL on a warbeast using the rules from Monster Manual II, page 219. Arguably better for your mount, since you can have a stronger animal than would normally be avaliable and it's there all day.