creating a new DnD 3.5 wizard / item creation

[MatrixQ]

Hi there.

I am currently in a DnD campaign, where I started at level 17 and we are now at level 19. I am playing a ranger and know the basic rules pretty well by now. But the campaign is (per the GMs announcement) coming to an end in not too long a while, and we decided to start fresh after that. Well, not entirely, we start at level 2. Core only. I decided to make a gnome wizard. I rolled really lucky and got 18 twice and no stat lower than 11. I decided to go with
str 9
dex 18
con 16
int 18
wis 13
cha 13

Which I think should serve me rather nicely, for the most part. If I missed something, please say so. I know I could go 20 on con with the gnome modifiers, but I didn't think that would be all that necessary. The bonus HP would be nice of course, but I thought being nimble and all would benefit me more.

I decided to be a specialized wizard. A transmuter, to be precise. I already read a lot about wizards and I think I like that style best. I chose necromancy and enchantment as my prohibited schools for the same line of reasoning (I do not like their style). And I think I will go the full wizard way, meaning no other classes or prestige classes (I'm not even sure the latter will be allowed).

Now I've thought a lot, and I am not quite sure if I'm getting everything. I planned on making my wizard mainly a buffbot, since we also have a fighter and a rogue who will do plenty of damage. Further, I think I will go the route of the crafter, taking some of the item creation feats. And here is where it gets complicated.

I've read through the item creation parts of the DMG, and while I think I understood most of it, things seem a little odd to me. Maybe you can shed some light on it.
The general rule seems to be, that I can create an item that holds a spell with 50 uses for 375 x spell level x caster level. It does not really specify which type of item that has to be. I know, I can only craft wands with "craft wands" and so forth, and some of the craft feats have limits (brew potion), but if I see it correctly, nothing is stopping me from creating a wondrous item that can hold any spell and is not limited (like craft wands). Or can I only create wondrous items that are on the wondrous items lists?

I thought, for example, to enchant the rogues gloves with "cat's grace", as soon as I hit level 3 and take up "craft wondrous items". If my calculations are correct, that would give him 50 charges of "cat's grace", that he can activate himself, and that will cost 2 x 3 x 375 = 2250 Gold and 90XP on my end. The effect will then last 3 minutes each time he activates it. As a level 3 item, that's not too shabby. Or 25 times for half the price, which is still pretty powerful and should serve us well into higher levels.

Or can't he activate it, or does he need to use the "use magic device" skill for this? Though there are wondrous items that anyone can use, right? Why not this one, then. And could I modify it, so that he can use it? It would basically make the whole group not need attribute+ items until we can afford the +6 ones.

I was thinking of taking the "extend spell" metamagic feat at level one, since it would allow the spells on the items to last quite a bit longer. For example, an enchanted rope with ropetrick could be cast at level 5 instead of level 8, to provide 8 hours of shelter, bringing down the cost (even if it is only a little bit [3 x 5 instead of 2 x 8]). Other spells will of course benefit more from this.

Which craft feats would you recommend? I thought of taking up craft(alchemy), because of the gnome bonus. Is there a knowledge skill that could benefit me on the path to be a great crafter (besides knowledge(arcane))? Or would it be a good thing to take up another craft skill? Or are there maybe some other things to look at? Is there a good guide out there for this? What is the difference between the various magical items?

Generally, what skills would be good to pick up? Knowledge(Arcane), Spellcraft, Concentration and decipher script are pretty much a given I think. With the bonus to craft(alchemy), it seemed like a no brainer to take. I have 1 (or if I skip alchemy: 2) skills left to take full, or distribute my points some other way.

Any help you can give me is much appreciated.

MatrixQ

[herrhauptmann]

Hmm, should doublecheck with your DM when it comes to making custom magic items. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#tableEstimatingMagicItemGol dPieceValues
Items:
Don't forget, charged items cost half of what they would if they were unlimited use (which I think you've done). And might be able to just give the rogue an X per day pair of gloves for even lower cost (2/day= spell*CL*.2). But that sort of looks like the rule for a spell trigger item like a wand. I think you might want command word, which is Spell*CL*1800

wondrous items generally can be used by anyone, unless there's a clause in the item that says 'only useable by X.' It's wands and scrolls where he'd need UMD to use the gloves.

Regardless, make sure he pays you in gold for the items. You don't have to get a profit on it, just have him pay the creation cost.

Stats:
Having an 18dex will give you a +1 to your ranged touch attacks with rays and the like. But shortly, that +1 to AC it gives will be irrelevant. So really, you should be looking at your saves. Both Ref and Fort are bad saves for your wizard. Think of the DM's playstyle, and see which one will benefit you better, particularly early game.

Metamagics:
First, if you're playing at level 2, then the only thing you can extend will be your cantrips, at the cost of your 1st level spells. They really aren't worth a metamagic feat I think. It's good planning for the future, if you're sure that it won't get you killed now.
Your interpretation of making a metamagic custom wondrous item sounds correct to me.

[MatrixQ]

Ah, I think I get it now. A spell trigger can only be used by a spellcaster, which means a wand or a staff and such. Do I understand correctly that Wand and Staff are basically the same thing, except for level restrictions, while rods are mainly for special stuff (metamagic for example) ?

So a "Command word" item always has unlimited uses, unless I choose to make it with charges, which would make it cheaper? Good to know, since it is rather pricey otherwise for a 3rd level wizard (which is where I intend to start creating items). The cat's grace gloves could be done like this:
2 (spell level) x 3 (caster level) x 1800 (command word) x 0.5 (50 charges) x 0.4 (2 uses per day) = 2160 Gold
Which means I can craft this for materials worth 1080 gold (plus 43 XP), since it takes half the value to create. Which should actually be quite feasible to do for a group of 4 characters. And 50 uses should last long enough, I think.

Or another idea:
Could I imbue my quarterstaff with a use-activated "True Strike"? It would only be 4000 gold, so it should be fairly reasonable to get, and it would give me a +20 on every attack roll with the staff. Or would I even be able to do so to someone else's weapon? The spell is, after all, usually only for the wizard, so I assume not. I would probably need craft magic weapons for this, but still.

On level 3, I want to take up either craft wondrous items or brew potion. But if I could create single-use-activated wondrous items (and at the moment I don't see anything speaking against it, other than the DM saying no), is there any reason I would ever want to take up brew potion? I am kind of planning on creating most of the party's magic items, so I would need to take up a lot of the item creation feats. There are 8 item feats in the PHB, I get scribe scroll for free, so I would have to choose from the remaining 7. Is there any creation feat that is not really worth taking (see brew potion comment above)? How about wands? Are they worth it, or should I pass on them and just wait for staffs?

Taking the extend metamagic actually was part of planning ahead. I know I can't do much with it at level 2, but I can't really see any other interesting feats for me to take, and level 3 is not too far away. And a lot of the other feat slots are already devoted to craft feats, and the extend feat seems like a good addition to a lot of spells in items. On the other hand, I thought about taking a skillfokus(spellcraft) feat, to eliminate the chance of failing to copy a spell to my book, so I can have lots of spells really quick.

I will make the others pay their share, of course. Which will allow me to afford even more expensive items, and they get a good deal on their magic items as well. Win-win.

I kind of have the feeling, that I have to grow into this. There are just so many options.

But I think I am getting closer to at least some understanding of things.

Thank you.

[herrhauptmann]

Ah, I think I get it now. A spell trigger can only be used by a spellcaster, which means a wand or a staff and such. Do I understand correctly that Wand and Staff are basically the same thing, except for level restrictions, while rods are mainly for special stuff (metamagic for example) ?
Yes.


So a "Command word" item always has unlimited uses, unless I choose to make it with charges, which would make it cheaper? Good to know, since it is rather pricey otherwise for a 3rd level wizard (which is where I intend to start creating items). The cat's grace gloves could be done like this:
2 (spell level) x 3 (caster level) x 1800 (command word) x 0.5 (50 charges) x 0.4 (2 uses per day) = 2160 Gold
Which means I can craft this for materials worth 1080 gold (plus 43 XP), since it takes half the value to create. Which should actually be quite feasible to do for a group of 4 characters. And 50 uses should last long enough, I think.
I've never actually thought about making an item that is X per day, AND has Y charges total. So, maybe.
I think the rules weren't intended for those lines to be combined. But there's no rule saying they can't be.


Or another idea:
Could I imbue my quarterstaff with a use-activated "True Strike"? It would only be 4000 gold, so it should be fairly reasonable to get, and it would give me a +20 on every attack roll with the staff. Or would I even be able to do so to someone else's weapon? The spell is, after all, usually only for the wizard, so I assume not. I would probably need craft magic weapons for this, but still.

Use activated true strike? Activates when you swing the weapon? Search around for that. I remember seeing that a use activated wraithstrike (level 2 or 3 spell) comes out in the millions of gold.



On level 3, I want to take up either craft wondrous items or brew potion. But if I could create single-use-activated wondrous items (and at the moment I don't see anything speaking against it, other than the DM saying no), is there any reason I would ever want to take up brew potion? I am kind of planning on creating most of the party's magic items, so I would need to take up a lot of the item creation feats. There are 8 item feats in the PHB, I get scribe scroll for free, so I would have to choose from the remaining 7. Is there any creation feat that is not really worth taking (see brew potion comment above)? How about wands? Are they worth it, or should I pass on them and just wait for staffs?
I'd say pass on staves and rings.
If there's another caster in the party, try and get them to take some feats too. DMG 2, or PHB 2 web enhancement (i forget) had a couple of rules for allowing characters to combine their efforts. Say you have craft wand, and the cleric contributes his cure serious wounds, letting you make wands of cure serious wounds.


Taking the extend metamagic actually was part of planning ahead. I know I can't do much with it at level 2, but I can't really see any other interesting feats for me to take, and level 3 is not too far away. And a lot of the other feat slots are already devoted to craft feats, and the extend feat seems like a good addition to a lot of spells in items. On the other hand, I thought about taking a skillfokus(spellcraft) feat, to eliminate the chance of failing to copy a spell to my book, so I can have lots of spells really quick.

I don't think you'll really need skillfocus:spellcraft. You should already have a good chance of copying spells. But if you really need spells, take Collegiate Wizard, in teh back of complete arcane (or mage). 4 new spells each time you level. At level 1, six 1st level spells, plus your int mod. Meaning you could have 14 spells known by the time the game starts.


Thank you.
No problem.


Also, for feats. Look up the reserve feats. Complete arcane/mage/champion
There's one that is based off of your prepared polymorph/shapechanging spells that you might really like.

[herrhauptmann]

Quickstrike in your staff...
Have you looked at wand chambers in your weapons?
Quarterstaff is a double weapon, right? Should allow twice as many wand chambers.

Also, do a search for 'spellblade tennis.' Great if the DM has a tendency to throw a particular spell at you all the time.

[Roguenewb]

It hurts my soul to do this design with Wizard. Get down on your knees and beg, beg, beg to play an Artificer. This class is exactly what you want to play. On top of that, with careful planning it's easily as powerful as Wizard, and in masterful hands, perhaps the most powerful base class in the game.

[herrhauptmann]

Roguenewb has a point.
Artificer is a caster that's not as powerful as the wizard overall in terms of total spells, but makes up for it in nice crafting bonuses. Am I right? (never put together an artificer)
Eberron campaign setting I believe.

[Tvtyrant]

It hurts my soul to do this design with Wizard. Get down on your knees and beg, beg, beg to play an Artificer. This class is exactly what you want to play. On top of that, with careful planning it's easily as powerful as Wizard, and in masterful hands, perhaps the most powerful base class in the game.

There is even a guide to playing a Tier 0 Artificer floating around on the interwebs. It really is that good (although Psionic Artificer in a campaign with StP Erudites giggles at it).

[MatrixQ]

Hmm, Artificer you say. I've tried to find things on the web, and if I am not mistaken, he first and foremost has access to all spell lists, gets every craft feat as a class feat for free and then some. A master of item creation. That is in fact exactly what I am looking for. I will ask my GM. If he allows it, I got everything I want in the character and probably some things I didn't even dream about. Looking at the item creation tables, there are lots and lots of items that will just be a lot of fun to play with (+skill items are cheap :smalltongue:)

Thank you guys, this helped a lot. Wish me luck convincing the GM :smallsmile:

[Gavinfoxx]

Hmm, Artificer you say. I've tried to find things on the web, and if I am not mistaken, he first and foremost has access to all spell lists, gets every craft feat as a class feat for free and then some. A master of item creation. That is in fact exactly what I am looking for. I will ask my GM. If he allows it, I got everything I want in the character and probably some things I didn't even dream about. Looking at the item creation tables, there are lots and lots of items that will just be a lot of fun to play with (+skill items are cheap :smalltongue:)

Thank you guys, this helped a lot. Wish me luck convincing the GM :smallsmile:

He doesn't have EVERY craft feat as a class feat for free... just almost all of the important ones. ;)

[MatrixQ]

Well, he does have the 8 core craft feats, which means he should be able to create everything. The wizard would be left with 4 free feats, while the artificer hasn't even begun to take any. And he has his feats left for reducing the cost of an item or taking metamagic to make great items even more awesome.

[Gavinfoxx]

There are categories of things he can't create without spending feats on them.

What, you think the core feats inexhaustibly show the sorts of things that can be made in this game?

Please.

Anyway, if you want to make Golems, you need to spend a feat on that, too.

He IS the best crafter... but there are LOTS of category of things that a default Artificer can't make...

[MatrixQ]

I was not planning to overwhelm my GM by pushing the artificer AND golem creation onto him. :smallbiggrin:

Do you have a list of additional stuff that can be created? Traps might be fun, though they might be covered already by using spells. If I'm going for creation, I might as well go all in :smallwink:

[Gavinfoxx]

Traps are generally Wondrous Items.

Google 'realmshelps feats finder' and select 'item creation' and hit 'find'.

There are lots of item and equipment and artificer handbooks out there, too...

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11066.0
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149464
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4400.0
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274.0
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=177
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12837
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661.0
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2829
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11474
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872330/Artificer_Handbook_%28rough_draft%29

There's even a few I wrote:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aG4P3dU6WP3pq8mW9l1qztFeNfqQHyI22oJe09i8KWw/edit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14zilT4WGOyHM0AfpG4-GmD2FkgDg1HZ9HC1cTleQHds/edit

[MatrixQ]

I think I'm good with just the core items for now, there is already plenty possibilities. Still, your links are much appreciated, thank you.

Edit:
Another question: what is an average number of items an artificer carries with him? I assume "as much as possible", but an average to know where to aim would be great.

[Gavinfoxx]

Are we including one use items or just equipment?

Lots of Artificers tend to have a 5 story building full of gear and shops and stuff in their Enveloping Pit...

Though you need to take some options so the air doesn't get stale (though that takes WAY longer than a portable hole...)

Also, use the rules regarding combining like items!

[MatrixQ]

Are we including one use items or just equipment?

Well, both. I could start creating a library full of scrolls, but that would mean, that I would never level up, which would become kind of silly after a while. On the other hand, I should have enough to be useful to the party.
I am thinking of a gnome carrying 20 wands around with him, and I think that is a bit ridiculous, but on the other hand that seems to be exactly what the artificer is all about. I'm just looking for a ballpark on what amount of XP is actually reasonable to invest in items. From the ideas for useful items, I have way to little anyway, though gold might be the more limiting factor here. I think I am going to take the -25% money on item creation feat, that seems worthwhile in any case. And then I can see where I go from there.


Also, use the rules regarding combining like items!
Where might I find those rules?

And on that thought: I can create wands that store 50 charges, but I can also create use-activated or continuous items. Could I imbue an item with unlimited charges of Magic Missile for example, or do items like that always have to be wand-like items with charges? I know it might become quite expensive, but it might be worth it over time.

[Gavinfoxx]

The rules for combining like items are scattered around several places:

The DMG.
The Errata for the DMG.
The SRD.
The MIC.


Basically, between them, it is like this:

"You can combine like-slotted magic items. To cost this out, you multiply all but the single most expensive enchantment on the item, when adding the extra effect to a like-slotted item, by 1.5x as a surcharge for doing so. However, there are 'easy adds' for particular slots, which are listed in a chart near the back of the magic item compendium."

[MatrixQ]

So it looks like I will actually be able to play the Artificer. Yay, I can't wait for the game to start :smile: